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OfflinePulseczar
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Registered: 01/04/02
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Strain - High Question
    #510308 - 01/04/02 06:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Hi. I was just wondering, how would the strain you're eating make a difference in the high? Isn't it the same few chemicals that get you high? Hmm.. I always here people say " this one is speedy and high visuals, and this one is not so speedy with poor visuals".
what would cause this? Thank you.


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Invisiblepuscle
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Registered: 01/07/01
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: Pulseczar]
    #510315 - 01/04/02 07:03 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, the same few chemicals but in differing amounts. (ratios)


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OfflineSyd_barret
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Registered: 10/27/01
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: puscle]
    #510324 - 01/04/02 07:18 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yeh, this also annoys me when I see someone say great visuals on this strain, and the next strain they say its a great body high.


BS THE ACTIVE CHEMICALS ARE THE SAME


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OfflinePulseczar
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: puscle]
    #510329 - 01/04/02 07:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

puscle, can you tell me the active chemicals in cubes?
Psylocin, Psylocybin, baeocystin? Or what?
So, you're saying for example that psylocybin would cause the visuals while say, baeocystin would cause the speediness? I didn't know this. I would think all the strains would be the same high, but different potencies..


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Invisiblepuscle
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: Pulseczar]
    #510358 - 01/04/02 07:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

That sounds about right, but there's even some DMT in shrooms. Checkout erowid.org for more info.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: Syd_barret]
    #510509 - 01/04/02 11:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

for me it sounds lame and bullshistic when people talk about different strains giving different highs... one would feel different highs even with the same fucking strain, this is lame talk. what do you think, murple? (in the end, isnt psilocybin turn to psilocin?)


Edited by felixhigh (01/04/02 11:23 PM)


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Invisiblepuscle
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: felixhigh]
    #510762 - 01/05/02 05:20 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, shit, I guess you're right. I'm just a lame bullshitter.


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OfflineAlkaloid
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: Pulseczar]
    #510783 - 01/05/02 06:13 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

As far as different Mushrooms of the Genus Psilocybe giving different experiences I think this is rubbish, as all Psilocybe mushrooms contain the two main Alkaloids Psilocybin and Psilocin, and to a lesser extent the more toxic but still psychoactive Baeocystin and Norbaeocystin. These two differ from Psilocin by one and two methyl groups respectively and are both hallucinogenic to a lesser extent.

The only possibility in different visuals/experiences with different mushroom strains is maybe with the genus Amanita. Fly Agaric may give a differnet experinece as it's two main psychoactive compuonds are (off the top of my head) Muscaline and Ibotenic acid. However Fly agaric is pretty poisonious and cases of poisoning via muscaline are not uncommon.

Hope this helps.

Alkaloid.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: puscle]
    #510793 - 01/05/02 06:53 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i may be wrong but in my mind (with p. cubensis) the high actually comes from _psilocin_ (and of course from psilocybin which has turned to psilocin). am i wrong?


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OfflineBeppoMarx
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: felixhigh]
    #510907 - 01/05/02 12:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i read once upon a time here on the message boards but have no documentation on this.
it is true that when you dry mushrooms most of the psilocin oxidizes; rendering the majority worthless. that is why people say fresh mushies will give a better 'stronger' trip because all active compounds are stil present.
from what i hear the initial psilocin is recognized relatively quickly and digested out of any effective tract in an hour or so. the psilocybin gets further and enters your bloodstream where it is broken into psilocybin and that is what gives the trip; which is why there may be a small difference in trip between fresh and dried.
i am totally unsure of Baeocystin and Norbaeocystin or other compounds; but the psilocybin/psilocin part i do believe to be true. if anyone can correct me please do.


--------------------
Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
BUCKETS BRIGADE left hand man!!!


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OfflineSyd_barret
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #510939 - 01/05/02 01:41 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Fresh mushrooms are more potent because they still contain psilocin, dry mushrooms only contain psilocybin which is broken down into psilocin when you ingest it.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: Syd_barret]
    #510967 - 01/05/02 02:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

That's a true statment. After ingestion, psilocybin is hydrolized to psilocin pretty rapidly and completely. 100 mg of psilocybin (C12H17N2O4P, MW=284.3) are equivalent to 72 mg of psilocin (C12H16N2O, MW= 204.3).
As an example, Ps. Semilanceata also contains 0.2 % baeocystin (others only traces). Baeocystin has effects on humans very similar to those of psiloc(yb)in, but is weaker (per weight) (J.Gartz, pers. comm.).
Also Psilocybin is the is the compound that stabilizes the psilocyn (prevents its oxidation, bruising), so theorically besides the bruising being an effect of high contents of psilocyn it also could be the effect of a low concentrention of psilocybin, so i've read.
As for different highs, haven't you ever smoke weed ? THC is the main chemical but different weed, different highs. That applies also to mushrooms, sure the same strain can give you different highs, because the way you feel at the moment, also sets (it's a factor) the way your high will go on. Anyway, eating different strains is like eating hamburgers at McDonalds and then eating at Burgers King, they're not the same hamburger, but they're a hamburger.

Peace,
MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: Alkaloid]
    #511940 - 01/06/02 07:52 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Firstly - Cubensis have one of the highest ratios of psilocin vs. psilocybin of an psilocybe - this means that it oxides more of its potency than other psilocybes - but i doubt that ALL of the psilocin is lost if dried effectively
Secondly - Baeocystin has NOT been proven to be 'more' toxic than other psilocybin related alkaloids - especially aeruginacine - this stems from an error in the determination of the species that caused the death of a girl. After receiving a specimen of the mushroom (ps.baeo) a mycologist to determine that an unknown alkaloid in the specimen caused her death (later named Baeocystin)
Thirdly: always annoys ME when people make the ill-informed statement that they 'hate all that one-strain-is-more-visual-than-another' because anyone who has actual experience in cultivating different spore-races of cubensis - say B+ vs. Puerto Ricans would see that there is a marked difference

My suggestion is to eat on seperate occasions - 3 grams of dried Ps.Cyanescens or another woodlover, then on another occasion say 7-8grams of PR cubensis and some of the other sporeraces such as GTs, Tassies or Lipa yai - the differences are ALWAYS present - i have grown these three cubies in particular out many times and the trips are never comparable - sure they are similar in that they are psilocybin intoxicating, but the difference in potency cannot be doubted
Even with cubensis strains, just as the fruiting characteristics from different spore-races are genetically determined (eg- PF classic nearly always fat-arsed and with huge pin-set etc.) so too the ratios of psychoactive alkaloids in their fruits are differentiated by the genetics of spore-races.
UmaGuma wrote a great post on this very topic on the forest floor.
Baeocystin is only one of a large number of psilocybin-related alkaloids that's effects are only now being discovered, as well as new alkaloids such as aeruginacine etc
Anyway, try some woodlovers, some pans and then some home-grown cubies and make an INFORMED conclusion


--------------------


Edited by Zen Peddler (01/06/02 08:06 AM)


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Offlinehomage_etd
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Registered: 10/08/01
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: Pulseczar]
    #511943 - 01/06/02 08:05 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I believe that one species can have a distinctive effect on a single person through many trials and have a completely different affect on another person. As far as that goes i think stating how one species affects one person is achademic. Just try them yourself and choose for yourself. As Blue insisted.


--------------------
*shrugs*


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #512403 - 01/06/02 08:39 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Couldnt have said it better myself - hang on! I did say that!


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Offlinequeerbandit
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Re: Strain - High Question [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #548247 - 02/11/02 08:27 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

Does the darkness of the blue bruising indicate the potency of the shroom? I'm curious about the differences between strains. thanx


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