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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

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I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me
#5088222 - 12/21/05 12:34 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have never been a hard core smoker, so this is not a gradual change. I have only smoked a couple of times this year and it ranged from nice to depressing. Before this happened I was going about once a week and I never had problems with paranoia. Here's my story:
About a year and a half ago I got EXTREMELY high alone in my dad's basement at midnight and it changed my personality significantly. Two weeks before I had had my first big trip on mescaline, and many of the things I experienced there came out when I was high but in a very distorted and unmanageable way. The mescaline trip ultimately left me feeling pretty good about life, but this weed experience left me a basket case. It was like my mind was being completely destroyed, chopped to bits to the point where I could not think at all. Like ego death by your thoughts and memories being eaten away until nothing was left. I actually made a post about this at that time: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post2751362
I had some kind of emotional breakdown, it was one of the worst feelings I have had in my life. I was very depressed and traumatized for several months feeling both depersonalized and derealized. I felt like nothing mattered at all and everyone around me was just a machine. For almost a year I was afraid of falling asleep because I felt I was losing control, like falling asleep was like dying.
I have recovered to a normal level of functioning but since then I have been very paranoid, like OCD, when I never was before. I have bad anxiety and my moods are much more manic depressive than they used to be. I can get panicky sometimes, and often I notice I do when people smoke pot around me, or I am offered drugs. Sometimes I can sort of depersonalize and zone out of myself. In a strange way, I kind of feel like I am mildly high all the time, but only as it pertains to awareness and anxiety.
On the flip side I have had many important spiritual insights since then, and I find my meditations have been much deeper. In some ways I am more emotionally connected and feel more happy at times than I had in the past. Before the episode I was pretty much nuetral and lukewarm most of the time.
The problem remains though, I have paranoia, anxiety, jumpiness and rapid mood changes that I never did before that and after a year and a half I am still not the same. I guess I just move along with the changes, as life is always change, but I wonder what exactly could have happened to me? I used to be very laid back and relaxed, but now I get paranoid over dumb things like accidently inhaling windex.
Could it be damage to my Norepinephrine system that makes me high anxiety, or pot flashbacks that give me the feeling of depersonalization? My mind feels different, and much of it does not really feel right. Of course 'right' is all just subjective. I think my grandma and her mother were both constant worriers so maybe I triggered some dormant OCD tendancy. However, the change to my consciousness goes deeper than just getting paranoid.
People don't understand when I tell them this happened from getting high, as if pot is completely benevolant. I feel they look down on me or think I am weird because they have never had any similar experiences. I feel like a fraud in some ways because I hardly smoke pot anymore and often am too anxious to do drugs, yet here I am on the shroomery giving advice to people as if I do 4 hits of acid every weekend and I'm a hard core psychonaut.
I'm not sure what I am really looking for by posting this, but I have noticed this event had a big long term effect on me as a person and my ability to relax. Has anything like this ever happened to anyone else? Can somebody help me?
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
Edited by Divided_Sky (12/21/05 12:49 AM)
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Booby
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Divided_Sky]
#5088305 - 12/21/05 01:03 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sounds like you had a breakdown, Better to have one now, I guess, than later when you may not have been able to put things back together as well. What do you think, if the drugs hadn't of precipitated the balance, could something else have set you off down the line?
-------------------- Let it not be remembered That mycelium eats detritus and dies But that life in all it's glory Counts mycelium to be on it's side.
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Deviate
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Booby]
#5088414 - 12/21/05 02:27 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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you dont have to take tons of drugs to gain the wisdom and knowledge needed to give people here advice. in fact i often feel like the people who do the most drugs dont always give the best advice (timothy leary would be an example im sure youre famaliar with.
anyway a similar thing happened to me from marijuana , although i was a daily smoker. pot has definitely changed me and given me many insights as well as doing a lot of harm to brain and my soul.
"but now I get paranoid over dumb things like accidently inhaling windex."
i know exactly what you mean. a few weeks ago i was freaking out over inahling the smell of comet when i was cleaning my bathroom. in fact i no longer use comet as a result of that experience even though i was a totally fine afterward. its really terrible though, i can freak out over almost any foreign substance comming in contact with my body as well as many other things. another example, one night i was walking around town and this man approached me and said "foller her, she went in there" i had no idea what he was talking about and so i said "what" and then he said "do you have a pen?" and i said "no" and walked away. that event really freaked me out for the rest of the night because i just couldnt make sense of it. anyway, ive been trying very hard to heal myself recently and my efforts seem to helping quite a bit. for example i used to even freak out randomly. like id be lying on my bed watching tv and suddenly id freak out over existance itself. that doesnt happen anymore but events like the 2 i described still do happen to me and it makes me feel like i am not as healed as id like to believe. i often resist going places and doing things for fear something will happen that will cause me to freak out. anyway im sorry to cut this short (or write so much if im boring you) but i have to go to bed now. i will check this thread tomorrow.
Edited by Deviate (12/21/05 02:28 AM)
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Booby
Agent Mulder

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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Deviate]
#5088421 - 12/21/05 02:39 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Consider those who go berserker; Would they have gone berseker if they had had more opportunity to do drugs (weed especialy).
Now consider yourselves; Would you have been more likely to go off on a violent rampage if you hadn't of done drugs.
If kids were free to smoke pot, or not, would they be less likely to shoot up their high-schools? in your opinions.
-------------------- Let it not be remembered That mycelium eats detritus and dies But that life in all it's glory Counts mycelium to be on it's side.
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Deviate]
#5088454 - 12/21/05 03:31 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: i know exactly what you mean. a few weeks ago i was freaking out over inahling the smell of comet when i was cleaning my bathroom. in fact i no longer use comet as a result of that experience even though i was a totally fine afterward. its really terrible though, i can freak out over almost any foreign substance comming in contact with my body as well as many other things. another example, one night i was walking around town and this man approached me and said "foller her, she went in there" i had no idea what he was talking about and so i said "what" and then he said "do you have a pen?" and i said "no" and walked away. that event really freaked me out for the rest of the night because i just couldnt make sense of it. anyway, ive been trying very hard to heal myself recently and my efforts seem to helping quite a bit. for example i used to even freak out randomly. like id be lying on my bed watching tv and suddenly id freak out over existance itself. that doesnt happen anymore but events like the 2 i described still do happen to me and it makes me feel like i am not as healed as id like to believe. i often resist going places and doing things for fear something will happen that will cause me to freak out. anyway im sorry to cut this short (or write so much if im boring you) but i have to go to bed now. i will check this thread tomorrow.
Exactly. Foreign substances. I can relate to most all of that, but the existential stuff is more under control now because I think I have better coping mechanisms.
Booby, I could not exclusively blame pot for what happened to me. I would say however, that had I never done any drugs most of those feelings would have stayed repressed and I would have been a mildly troubled but non-emotional person.
I think there may be more wrong with me than I realize. I did a big whippet hit tonight and for the second time I got this horrible feeling in my brain that something was wrong, like my mind was in pain or damaged. It had never happened before, but for a few seconds I felt like my mental state was precarious. This is strange because I am generaly a very calm and sober minded person.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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Booby
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Divided_Sky]
#5088462 - 12/21/05 03:37 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I did some nitrous in college but never cared for it much
-------------------- Let it not be remembered That mycelium eats detritus and dies But that life in all it's glory Counts mycelium to be on it's side.
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confuzed
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Booby]
#5089609 - 12/21/05 11:54 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Everytime you have a traumatic experience to something like marijuana, the Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Adrenal axis can become more sensitive to stressors, so the hormones are released with less stress than they were before - not only when smoking, in day-to-day life aswell. The reason for that is mainly that the traumatic experience is memorised, and at a later time when a similar situation crops up, the anticipation of the same occuring is enough to stir fear - anticipation anxiety.
Depersonlisation is almost exclusive to hallucinogenic escapes with drugs, particulary marijuana. It's also associated with HPA axis dysregulation, a system that the endocannabinoid system is responsible for and marijuana interferes with.
How do shrooms effect you? I've read that they can have positive effects on things similar to depersonalisation, or is that fanciful?
Bottom line is, marijuana modifies in some way the system directly responsible for coping with stress - the hypothalamous-pituitary-adrenal axis, so if you have bad experiences, then you can extrapolate that it isn't modifying it in a way that's in any way positive, and the specifics are academic.
You disappoint me greatly, these types of things aren't supposed to happen to snoop dogg.
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: confuzed]
#5089782 - 12/21/05 12:37 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh, I still have to change my avatar.
Sounds like that might be what is going on. I'm almost positive that these changes are not purely psychological (well I guess all chemical changes ARE psychological but well, you know) and it would seem to me that I am much more sensitive to stress than before and there is probobly something weird with my endocannabinoid system considering the strange pot like moments I sometimes have.
Although I never have had 100% positive experiences with mushrooms, MDA or mescaline these chemicals have been much more comfortable to me than pot. They all seem to be intoxicating enough and have a smooth enough progression that does not heavily interfere with short term memory that they are simply easier for me to deal with than pot. Although the psychedelics are a more risky venture, at manageble doses they treat me better than pot. Shrooms also have some depersonalizing effect on me (on most I would assume), but it is totally different and I find it kind of enjoyable. I guess though, when I come down from the experience I do actually feel more 'personalized' from having undergone it. But really I have become pretty ok with the depersonalization which is usefull in some of my Buddhist practice.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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Ego Death
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Divided_Sky]
#5090210 - 12/21/05 02:22 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I know exactly what you're saying.
If it makes you feel any better - I battle with extreme anxiety. every single day, all day.
I too have the same problems and I also have friends that don't recognise the true power of any drugs to alter the mind.
I don't think its a physical alteration - its a mental alteration. The brain works by using association i.e this is good, this is bad.
The problem being - that the association is incorrect.
You should try hypnosis, as this can alter associations back to positive. Other than that, like I said, I am still battling every day...
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freddurgan
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Ego Death]
#5091838 - 12/21/05 10:45 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
danoEoboy said: I don't think its a physical alteration - its a mental alteration. The brain works by using association i.e this is good, this is bad.
The problem being - that the association is incorrect.
I agree with this bit of advice. I was a pretty normal, non-emotional kid until I got to college. I just played a lot of video games, messed with my computer. My LIFE was computers and that's all I knew or cared to know. I didn't know anything about a social life or dating or cars or anything else. I was set where I was.
But then I got to college and was surrounded in other people. And so it occured to me how closed off my world was. I didn't know shit about dick. AND, at the same time I started smoking pot and experimenting with other stuff.
Now I see myself as much more stressed out and anxious. However, is it the drugs? Maybe. Is it my huge change in worldview and overall life? I mean..my life is very similiar to but in many ways very different from what it used to be. It's hard dealing with lots of change.
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Deviate
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: freddurgan]
#5092222 - 12/22/05 12:12 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
freddurgan said:
Quote:
danoEoboy said: I don't think its a physical alteration - its a mental alteration. The brain works by using association i.e this is good, this is bad.
The problem being - that the association is incorrect.
I agree with this bit of advice. I was a pretty normal, non-emotional kid until I got to college. I just played a lot of video games, messed with my computer. My LIFE was computers and that's all I knew or cared to know. I didn't know anything about a social life or dating or cars or anything else. I was set where I was.
But then I got to college and was surrounded in other people. And so it occured to me how closed off my world was. I didn't know shit about dick. AND, at the same time I started smoking pot and experimenting with other stuff.
Now I see myself as much more stressed out and anxious. However, is it the drugs? Maybe. Is it my huge change in worldview and overall life? I mean..my life is very similiar to but in many ways very different from what it used to be. It's hard dealing with lots of change.
ok for you it may be the change but for me its the drugs. i am not stressed out or anxious, i just freak out very often and i am extremely sensitive to things. this happeneed as a direct result of marijuana usage. i dont deny that some of the changes are of a psychological nature, my experience with marijuana changed the way i see the world. but i am also sure there is a physical change in my brain. if i smoke pot now it affects me in a completely different way than it used to. this is not just a result of me being psychologically used to being high. some of things, like the extreme senstivity may have a psychological component but i am certain the cognitive difference and difference in my baseline awareness are at least in part due to physical changes. that is the only sensible explanation for the fact that smoking marijuana produces such a different effect on me these days.
Edited by Deviate (12/22/05 12:15 AM)
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Deviate
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Deviate]
#5092254 - 12/22/05 12:18 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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nd.
I don't think its a physical alteration - its a mental alteration. The brain works by using association i.e this is good, this is bad.
The problem being - that the association is incorrect.
You should try hypnosis, as this can alter associations back to positive. Other than that, like I said, I am still battling every day...
how do know it isn't both? i agree that the mental alteration is certianly a major component, perhaps even the main factor and certainly not to be overlooked. however, i see no reason to dismiss the possibility that there is a physical alteration which could cause cognitive affects, especially after extremely heavy marijuana use.
Edited by Deviate (12/22/05 12:19 AM)
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Deviate]
#5092454 - 12/22/05 01:42 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I would say physical alterations are definately possible. I say this because my state of consciousness itself is different. It's not just my thoughts or emotions, but my mind on the whole that feels different.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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Deviate
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Divided_Sky]
#5092493 - 12/22/05 02:24 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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i feel the same way divided sky and its one of the reasons that i am never smoking pot again.
. I did a big whippet hit tonight and for the second time I got this horrible feeling in my brain that something was wrong, like my mind was in pain or damaged. It had never happened before, but for a few seconds I felt like my mental state was precarious. This is strange because I am generaly a very calm and sober minded person.
i havent done whippits in ages so i have no idea how theyd affect me now but ive had similar experiences with marijuana where my mind literally hurt.
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Ego Death
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Deviate]
#5093405 - 12/22/05 10:58 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your mental state controls your physical state!!!
After all, the brain is just chemicals.
This is proven i.e People that meditate have physically altered brains when put on a c.a.t scanner.
My statement is technically incorrect, what I meant was - The change isn't likely to be permanent. Be it physical or not is irrelevant. If you believe it is physical then you will probably make it permanent.
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Deviate
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Ego Death]
#5094446 - 12/22/05 03:39 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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well i never claimed it was permament, divided sky used that word. my point is that its certainly possible for there to be a physical change to the brain from the drug itself and not just from your experience with it. of course i believe that the brain repairs itself over time but it may take a long time and thus the change maybe at least semi permanent.
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Booby
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Deviate]
#5094527 - 12/22/05 04:01 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: well i never claimed it was permament, divided sky used that word. my point is that its certainly possible for there to be a physical change to the brain from the drug itself and not just from your experience with it. of course i believe that the brain repairs itself over time ..
I hope that's true. I'd like to pick up where I left off some time without fear of the um ..mental intrusions.
-------------------- Let it not be remembered That mycelium eats detritus and dies But that life in all it's glory Counts mycelium to be on it's side.
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confuzed
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Re: I Think Pot Has Permanently Changed Me [Re: Booby]
#5094601 - 12/22/05 04:26 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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>>I would say physical alterations are definately possible.
What did you have in mind?
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