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Offlinedonvliet
beyond reality

Registered: 07/10/04
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tryptophan with MDMA?
    #5067229 - 12/15/05 03:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Would it be safe to take tryptophan during an MDMA experience, for instance just after the effects start? And what about an hour or so before taking the MDMA? Would you be risking serotonin syndrome with either of these? If these are safe they would probably enhance the MDMA experience without taking more MDMA or other drugs...


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Offlinesafe
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: donvliet]
    #5067332 - 12/15/05 03:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i beleived that was always the best idea, but i never heard of serotonin syndrome, from all iv heard about i know of seratonin blood poisoning, but i thought using tryptophan over 5htp removed that factor..?


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OfflineXelios
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: safe]
    #5067415 - 12/15/05 04:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Tryptophan should be fine to take with MDMA, as with 5-HTP. You should be dosing at least an hour or two before MDMA though, because it takes a while for tryptophan to metabolize into serotonin. If someone has more on this, please add on to it. :smile:


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Offlinedonvliet
beyond reality

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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: safe]
    #5067644 - 12/15/05 05:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

serotonin syndrome is basically when you get too much serotonin release, and can be very dangerous (even fatal). This can happen for instance when you combine an MAOI or SSRI with MDMA (or an MAOI with an SSRI for that matter). Tryptophan isn't (as far as I know) an MAOI or SSRI but it does increase serotonin levels as does MDMA... So you can see why I would like to know.


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Offlinesafe
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: donvliet]
    #5067666 - 12/15/05 05:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

ah rite, do you know if you can receive seratonin poisoning from taking too strong a dose of mdma by any chance, i know double droppping pills can cause uncomfortable rushes at first

also, i think 5htp is pretty useless as studies show it converts to seratonin in the blood rather than the brain, you require a prescrition drug with it which aids teh 5htp, the tryptophan tursn to seratonin in your brain,

if seratonin poisoning is possible i wouldn't suggest taking much before you drop, just leave it till afterwards, to ease the comedown


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Offlinemikeyboy
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: safe]
    #5067902 - 12/15/05 06:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Seretonin syndrome cannot be caused by MDMA, it's a condition where too MUCH seretonin is produced, MDMA simply causes it to be released in the brain.

5htp is NOT USELESS by gum it certainly aint  :tongue:
I understand what your saying about it being converted before it reaches the brain but this is due to some 5htp having vitamin b12 in them.

Instead of being high on MDMA and then *plop* back to normal(below normal) when your seretonin is diminished you SLOWLYYYYY come back to normal as the MDMA is diminishing in your system

^ Does that make sense? Thats what i make of it, sounds about right  :smirk:


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LSD: Defrag for the brain


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Offlinedonvliet
beyond reality

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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: mikeyboy]
    #5069805 - 12/16/05 04:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

As I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong) MDMA releases all serotonin. So if you would use tryptophan to create extra serotonin during a roll, you will get more serotonin release than without typtophan. Would this be a dangerous amount of serotonin release? MDMA on it's own isn't supposed to cause serotonin syndrome because there's a limited supply of serotonin available that MDMA can cause to be released. But what about the extra serotonin that MDMA gets to release because you took tryptophan?


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: donvliet]
    #5071697 - 12/16/05 04:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

That's a very interesting question. The best answer I can give is - it does sound dangerous. I'm having a dilema of my own, I just picked up Ginko Biloba and the label says 'May potentiate MAOIs.' I have already been taking 5-HTP to provide serotonin for the depletion. Do you think its possible GB could act as an MAOI, and interfere with 5-HTP + MDMA?


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Offlinedonvliet
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: namaste]
    #5072499 - 12/16/05 07:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

First, there's a difference between "potentiating MAOIs" and "acting as an MAOI". If ginko only potentiates MAOIs, you just have to make sure that you are extra carefull with the diet restrictions when combining with MAOIs. In this situation combining ginko (without MAOIs) with MDMA or 5HTP should not be dangerous. Just make sure that you are not taking any MAOI.

Second, there's the word "may"... I suggest you try to find out for sure ( It may not yet be established though).

Third, taking an MAOI with MDMA or 5HTP is dangerous, so if ginko by itself acts as an MAOI don't combine with MDMA or 5HTP let alone both at the same time!


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Offlinedonvliet
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: namaste]
    #5072520 - 12/16/05 07:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Namaste you say "I have already been taking 5-HTP to provide serotonin for the depletion". What serotonin depletion are you referring to? I don't think MAOIs cause serotonin depletion... (but MDMA does)


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: donvliet]
    #5072579 - 12/16/05 07:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

What serotonin depletion are you referring to?




The depletion associated with MDMA.  Thanks for helping to clear up my previous question :thumbup:


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Offlinedonvliet
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: namaste]
    #5074169 - 12/17/05 03:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I also found quite some info about reducing MDMA neurotoxicity. It basically comes down to taking quite a bit of vitamins C and E before, during and after MDMA use. Combining this with tryptophan or 5HTP to counter serotonin depletion should significantly reduce neurotoxicity caused by MDMA. It also reduces tolerance which is a bonus... Check this link for more info (under "neuroprotection" at the bottom):

http://www.eztest.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=74&Itemid=60

I also found some info about salt loss when dancing all night on MDMA. Most people know by now that they have to drink enough water in these situations, but few people know that you also lose lots of salt by sweating a lot. This has been known to cause health problems so taking some salty snacks at a rave is a wise precaution.


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: donvliet]
    #5075730 - 12/17/05 06:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Nice, thanks.

Sorry man, I chickened out on the smoked DMT + MDxx.  But I do have to say that taking generous amounts of 5-HTP +  vitamens, herbs, supplements, fresh fruit, water, light stretching, etc., etc., etc., and no alcohol is without a doubt, IMHO, an excellent way to beat the crash.  I dosed overall 50mgs less than last time, but my recovery speed is 5x faster.  I am a believer :heart:

I just started a new herbal treatment to stimulate circulation.  Garlic+Ginko+Cayene+Ginger.  Good stuff.


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Offlinedonvliet
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: namaste]
    #5075786 - 12/17/05 06:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No problem. I hope you had a nice roll. And great to hear that you could beat the crash!


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: tryptophan with MDMA? [Re: donvliet]
    #5076126 - 12/17/05 08:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks buddy :laugh: Certainly, the after-effects need not be terribly unpleasant!


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