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Prajna
ReliablyUnreliable
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: zappaisgod]
#5073161 - 12/16/05 08:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: "Conspiracy to....." is a rather oft used charge. As to deportation, any illegal is subject to immediate deportation and legals need to behave. Felony conviction and you are out. Telling someone you are going to kick his ass is assault. Doing it is battery. Other threats are extortion and making terrorist threats. I'm sure there are several more examples. Watch your mouth. You're not in high school anymore.
Watch your mouth? You are not in high school anymore? Deportation?
Whatever man, this is exactly why I should just get the fuck out out of this forum...fucking creepy man...
See ya...
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5073675 - 12/16/05 10:46 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: Are there even any known abuses of the Patriot act yet?
Sorry, that's classified....
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rawtoxic
Stranger
Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 2,097
Loc: smokey mountains
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: Le_Canard]
#5074539 - 12/17/05 07:55 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Two words: Hell yeah.
Possibly best news of the year, next to Denver becoming decriminalized...
Few words of advice: Still probably not safe to talk on phone.
Patriot Act was one of the most grotesque abuses of our constitution/civil liberties IMO.
It was to play 'catch-up' after 9-11. Which was basically unnecessary IMO.
I'm not afraid of terrorism. I live rural mountain America. I am on top of the mountain and have my own means of protection, I do not rely on America to come and save me. If more Americans had this attitude we would be better off, instead we have a bunch of pussies that call the cops when they hear funny noises in bushes. Why not walk around the house with a shotgun?
GabbaDJ: Much of it just cuts right through all the bull shit and lets the cops be cops.
My reply: I don't think we should have cops running around like Texas rangers in the early 20th century do you? I prefer having my property searched with a warrant signed by a judge done in due process. If you want to let the cops be cops go to Mexico, you can drive drunk and run every stop sign for a $50 bill. Maybe the cops pull you over, find a joint (when searching without your consent) and then raid your whole house on a 'hunch' sounds like fun.
PS. I am not a backwoods moonshine redneck, but I have adapted some of there philosophies.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: rawtoxic]
#5074544 - 12/17/05 08:07 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Telling someone you are going to kick his ass is assault.
despite the context, thats a mighty liberal statement to excrete from someone such as yourself.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,625
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 9 hours, 1 minute
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: GringoLoco]
#5074608 - 12/17/05 08:45 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Being bombarded with stupid liberal opinions has left me susceptable to conservative viewpoints.
I think the Patriot act needs to be fine tuned, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Even if it is an ugly baby.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: Prajna]
#5074615 - 12/17/05 08:50 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prajna said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: "Conspiracy to....." is a rather oft used charge. As to deportation, any illegal is subject to immediate deportation and legals need to behave. Felony conviction and you are out. Telling someone you are going to kick his ass is assault. Doing it is battery. Other threats are extortion and making terrorist threats. I'm sure there are several more examples. Watch your mouth. You're not in high school anymore.
Watch your mouth? You are not in high school anymore? Deportation?
Whatever man, this is exactly why I should just get the fuck out out of this forum...fucking creepy man...
See ya...
I'm just telling you what the law is. Get over it. Or get under it. But you can't get through it, there are far too many cops and they don't give a fuck what you think the law "should" be.
--------------------
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5074618 - 12/17/05 08:52 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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You are an obscure and intriguing enigma.
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rawtoxic
Stranger
Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 2,097
Loc: smokey mountains
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5074650 - 12/17/05 09:10 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I do not know how anyone can support an act that allows the goverment to search your home without a warrant and not tell you.
That is the bottom line.
IF the Patriot Act were limited to terrorism I may support it, but probably not.
Terrorism in my liberal opinion is a result of bad foreign policy, Anti-Terrorism will do nothing but slow it, the way to stop terrorism is a change in foreign policy or kill all these towelheads and people that terrorism is emanating from.
Lets see how many terrorists we have running around once we occupy Iran.
I say throw out the bath water and the ugly dead Bush baby. But then again I'm a stupid liberal.
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Los_Pepes
Stranger
Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: rawtoxic]
#5074813 - 12/17/05 10:45 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5074842 - 12/17/05 10:57 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: Are there even any known abuses of the Patriot act yet?
Does it really matter? If a law is passed allowing government employees to kill jews and a year down the road there are no known reports of government employees killing jews, is the law alright? That is not to say anything about the pros and cons of the act in question -- it's just to suggest that it is irrelevant whether or not the act has been abused yet. If it is a bad act then it is a bad act regardless of how angelic the present class of bureaucrats may be. The class one or five or ten years down the road may be less so.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: Ancalagon]
#5075000 - 12/17/05 11:44 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just so we are all on the same page here..
Patriot Act
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: Catalysis]
#5075012 - 12/17/05 11:48 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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"We" are not.
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: zappaisgod]
#5075024 - 12/17/05 11:52 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
"We" are not.
Are you implying that you never read the patriot act or you disagree with my opinion that it should be revised?
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: Catalysis]
#5075036 - 12/17/05 11:55 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Catalysis said:
Quote:
"We" are not.
Are you implying that you never read the patriot act or you disagree with my opinion that it should be revised?
You read (read, not skimmed) the entire patriot act? If so you should be commended -- it's far more than your (and my) representatives did before they passed it into law the first time around.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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rawtoxic
Stranger
Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 2,097
Loc: smokey mountains
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: Ancalagon]
#5075274 - 12/17/05 01:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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What revisal are you suggesting for the Patriot Act?
What goes what stays?
I skimmed the mofo for 20 mins, I guess some of it maybe useful but as what happens in Congress too often they attach unrelated stuff to bills/acts and get them passed as the majority of the bill is good but they tack on a few hidden things.
I mean from my perspective there is negative shit all over this act. The drug war is all inter-related with terrorism (at least in the govt eyes) so they really just have free realm. I have heard them say 'BC Pot growers with terrorist links were busted today in Seattle'
Has congressional member proposed an altered bill or is that in the works?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: rawtoxic]
#5075321 - 12/17/05 01:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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It has long been my contention that if there weren't drug laws a lot more people would be willing to accept more intrusive efforts at curtailing violent scumbags. Really, violence against others and theft (which is only a form of violence against others) should be the only focus of law enforcement, not some imposition of a "we know what's good for you coda." Limit the number of laws and you limit the amount of people with something to hide.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: rawtoxic]
#5075487 - 12/17/05 02:19 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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The issue not onlylies at the hands of the men and women who penned the damn thing, but also I think in the majority of cases the brunt of the blame should be cast at the feet of the men and women repsonsible for the ineterpretation of our codes and laws. The judicial branch of the government is the sole entity that renders a law, amendment or code oppressive and in violation of the spirit of the right to privacy. They also can, if the people have done their homework and elected officials who share similar interest and fears be a great boon in the fight against tyranny. It is to some degree a power that we can exact over the powers that be. These people are driven by their lust for whatever makes a man want to be a politician. You deny them their oppurtunity and they will become pliable, lest they deny themselves their oppurtunity. See the beauty of the constitution? This was a victory. The consitution does work.
-------------------- Asshole
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5075501 - 12/17/05 02:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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zappaisgod, you are enitrely right. Having examined the patriot act, the implementation and misuse of the act is the problem I really see with it. I would give a fuck if you kept track of the shit I said to another motherfucker if it weren't the fact that, well.....
the rest goes without saying.
-------------------- Asshole
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5077960 - 12/18/05 12:11 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are there even any known abuses of the Patriot act yet?
The Patriot Act includes provisions making even it's use secret and so making its abuse is also kept secret as a matter our course. That some missues of the act have come to light should make you wonder how many others have occured that we'll never know of:
==
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act_controversy
Outside the Act's scope The stated purpose of the Act is to "deter and punish terrorist acts in the United States and around the world, to enhance law enforcement investigatory tools, and for other purposes." One criticism of the Act is that "other purposes" often includes the detection and prosecution of non-terrorist alleged future crimes.
Using the Act to investigate alleged potential money-laundering activities In Las Vegas, police used the USA PATRIOT Act to subpoena two stockbrokers for evidence in a public official corruption case against a strip club owner (who ultimately pled guilty).
The USA PATRIOT Act, Section 314 is a provision to investigate money-laundering activities. Accordingly, the federal investigators' actions did not exceed the authority of the Act.
Using the Act to investigate alleged copyright infringement Adam McGaughey, the webmaster of a fan site for the television show Stargate SG-1, was charged with copyright infringement and computer fraud. During the investigation, the FBI invoked a provision of the Act to obtain records from the site's Internet Service Provider. The USA PATRIOT Act amended the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act to include search and seizure of records from Internet Service Providers.
Using the Act to investigate child pornography on the internet On July 13, 2004, Attorney General John Ashcroft testified before Congress that the USA PATRIOT Act helped catch Terry and Jane Adkins of Nicholasville Kentucky.
Ashcroft claimed that the FBI used the USA PATRIOT Act to request a subpoena of an Internet service provider allegedly being used in the transmission of child pornography. The subpoena requested the identity of accounts accessing or distributing pornography of potentially underage people. After requesting the subpoena, a search warrant was issued for the residence of Terry Adkins. When the search warrant was issued, the justification was reported to be a police sketch by a child sexual abuse victim and testimony of Terry Adkins' mother. Adkins plead guilty to 100 counts of possessing child pornography and one count of conspiracy to attain child pornography. Adkins received a sentence of 75 years and his wife received 30 years (currently under appeal). Those directly involved in the case, such as the Boone County police investigators and Adkins' defense lawyer, knew nothing about the subpoena or use of the USA PATRIOT Act.
This case was reported by the The Enquirer: 8/7/2003 Article 1/21/2004 Article 5/25/2004 Article
Using the Act against the homeless Summit, New Jersey invoked the USA PATRIOT Act to defend itself from a lawsuit over removing homeless people from its train station.
The city said that its conduct is protected by the Patriot Act and that a homeless man's federal lawsuit should be barred. The city cited a section of the law regarding "attacks and other violence against mass transportation systems."
Initially, the Justice Department criticized Summit's use of the law saying that it "[represented] a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Patriot Act is," however since the 7 July 2005 London bombings, the Justice Department has sent out a warning of terrorists posing as homeless people in transit stations.
[edit] Using the Act to investigate alleged potential drug traffickers In September 2003, the New York Times reported on a case of the USA PATRIOT Act being used to investigate alleged potential drug traffickers without probable cause. The article also mentions a study by Congress that referenced hundreds of cases where the USA PATRIOT Act was used to investigate non-terrorist alleged future crimes. The New York Times reports that these non-terrorist investigations are relevant because President Bush and several members of Congress stated that the purpose the USA PATRIOT Act was that of investigating and preempting potential terrorist acts. Their statement is not consistent with the wording of the act, however, or with the non-terrorist alleged future crimes that are investigated and prosecuted under the act.
Wrongful accusations under the Act In May 2004, Professor Steve Kurtz of the University of Buffalo reported his wife's death of heart failure. The associate art professor, who works in the biotechnology sector, was using benign bacterial cultures and biological equipment in his work. Police arriving at the scene found the equipment (which had been displayed in museums and galleries throughout Europe and North America) suspicious and notified the FBI . The next day the FBI, Joint Terrorism Task Force, Department of Homeland Security and numerous other law enforcement agencies arrived in HAZMAT gear and cordoned off the block surrounding Kurtz's house, impounding computers, manuscripts, books, and equipment, and detaining Kurtz without charge for 22 hours; the Erie County Health Department condemned the house as a possible "health risk" while the cultures were analyzed. Although it was determined that nothing in the Kurtz's home posed any health or safety risk, the Justice Department sought charges under Section 175 of the US Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act?a law which was expanded by the USA PATRIOT Act. A grand jury rejected those charges, but Kurtz is still charged with federal criminal mail and wire fraud, and faces 20 years in jail. Supporters worldwide argue that this is a politically motivated prosecution, akin to those seen during the era of McCarthyism, and legal observers note that it is a precedent-setting case with far-reaching implications involving the criminalization of free speech and expression for artists, scientists, researchers, and others.
FBI agents used a USA PATRIOT Act "sneak and peek" search to secretly examine the home of Brandon Mayfield, who was wrongfully jailed for two weeks on suspicion of involvement in the Madrid train bombings. Agents seized three hard drives and ten DNA samples preserved on cotton swabs, and took 335 photos of personal items. Mayfield has filed a lawsuit against the U.S. government, contending that his rights were violated by his arrest and by the investigation against him. He also contends the USA PATRIOT ACT is unconstitutional. Controversial prosecutions The FBI ordered a handful of journalists that had written about computer hacker Adrian Lamo to turn over their notes and other information under the auspices of the PATRIOT Act. Supporters of the PATRIOT Act reply that journalists?like all other citizens?are not privileged from being subjected to subpoenas when they possess information relevant to a criminal investigation.
The ACLU filed a countersuit on April 6, 2004 claiming that a section of the USA PATRIOT Act was unconstitutional because it allowed the FBI to demand financial records and other documents from small businesses without a warrant or judicial approval. The specific action in question was the request of the FBI for the account information for users of an Internet service provider.
Citing possible secrecy provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act, the Department of Justice prevented the ACLU from releasing the text of a countersuit for three weeks. After judicial and congressional oversight, sections of the countersuit that did not violate secrecy rules of the USA PATRIOT Act were released.
Other cases In April 2003, Sami Omar Al-Hussayen was arrested on charges of supporting terrorism by maintaining several web sites that supported violent activities. This crime was created by a 1996 act signed by President Clinton, but was further expanded under the USA PATRIOT Act. Supporters of the Act respond that prosecutors did not try Mr. Al-Hussayen because of his association with the website, but because he actively participated in raising money for terrorist organizations, recruiting terrorists, and disseminating inflammatory rhetoric via his website. Prosecutors said the sites included religious edicts justifying suicide bombings and an invitation to contribute financially to the militant Palestinian organization Hamas.
On the other hand, sometimes critics of the law mistake unrelated prosecution as being under the USA PATRIOT Act. Sherman Austin, anarchist and webmaster of Raise the Fist, plead guilty to violating 18 U.S.C. 842(p), a 1997 statute authored by California Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein which prohibits the distribution of bombmaking information knowing or intending that the information will be used in a violent federal crime. Despite claims to the contrary, the USA PATRIOT Act was not invoked in this case.
On October 24, 2005, David Sobel of the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) obtained FBI Papers under the Freedom of Information Act that revealed that the FBI had been conducting surveillance on citzens for lengthy periods of time without correct paperwork. A total of 13 cases from 2002 to 2004 were referred to the FBI's Intelligence Oversight Board.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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DNKYD
Turtle!
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 12,326
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Re: U.S Patriot Act renewal blocked in Senate **Not Any More** [Re: DNKYD]
#5093489 - 12/22/05 11:25 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Senate Passes Patriot Act Extension
AP WASHINGTON Dec 21, 2005 ? The Senate passed a six-month extension of the USA Patriot Act late Wednesday night, hoping to avoid the expiration of law enforcement powers deemed vital in the war on terror.
Approval came on a voice vote, and cleared the way for a final vote in the House.
Several provisions in the current law expire Dec. 31, and President Bush has called repeatedly for new legislation.
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