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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: Moo456]
    #14597650 - 06/11/11 07:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Moo456 said:
Hmm, what is that actual advantage to this over mushroom tea? Is it really worth wasting everclear?




It's tiny and stores great in the freezer.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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InvisibleMoo456
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: kingfish4200]
    #14597653 - 06/11/11 07:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Still appreciate the method though.


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OfflineBoognishWitness
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: kingfish4200]
    #14648947 - 06/21/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hi all

New here, but ready to hit the ground running. After lurking on here for a while, very nice place btw, this ethanol extraction caught my eye. I had my heart set on a seemingly simple San Pedro extraction (MJshroomer on errowid) but decided that my first extraction of anything should be with something I have extensive experience with. Plus I despise the taste, texture, and adverse side effects of eating our fungi friends, and im tired of my peanut butter toast method.
    I plan on giving this tek a whirl this upcoming weekend. The everclear that I acquired is a 750ml, and I'm going to us a 1/2 oz of a friends private stock for this go. I understand that the end result we want less liquid, but for the initial phase, will the 750 be enough? I was planning on not using the whole bottle, but after reading some other reports, people were using 1.75 l bottles, and then reducing. Will this be an issue? And does anyone have any tips to keep in mind for my first extraction? I plan on documenting it too, just in case. Anyway Thanks in advance, love the site and you guys rock. You guys make me wish i majored in chemistry instead of philosophy, :-). See ya around.

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OfflineSomeGuy
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: BoognishWitness]
    #14649730 - 06/21/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The way I've always done it is 30 ml per gram(10 ml x 3 extractions) which is 900 ml per ounce. Since you are doing 1/2, 15 x 30=450, so yea, I'd say thats plenty. It's always worked well for me that way

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Offlineclevekid
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: SomeGuy]
    #14942394 - 08/18/11 12:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So my roommate and I want to brew a psychedelic beer and I came across this extraction tek.  The idea would be to add the extract during bottling.  My question is would the psylocyben degrade in the bottle as fermentation continues?  Anyone with any experience with this please chime in.  Also if anyone can foresee any other problems with this plan please let me know.  Thanks

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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: clevekid]
    #16271890 - 05/23/12 07:39 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I've been lurking these blue juice threads for a bit because I'm attempting to make a good batch of it.  There seems to be a divide between whether the extraction process should be done with or without heat.  I don't have one of those fancy stills, so I'm stuck with using a double boiler setup.  I made a first go at it a few days ago using 3 g of powdered mushrooms in 30 ml of everclear 95%.  I heated the mixture to 170 F for 30 minutes, strained, then repeated the process with fresh everclear once more.  I used a garlic press to squeeze every last drop out of the remaining fibrous material. 

I tried out a tester dose of 1 g equivalent last night and it seemed like it was bit weak to me.  I've taken 1 g doses before of the dried mushrooms and, while very mild, I feel that I still felt more than what I was feeling last night.  I'm wondering if my heated extraction time could have been too long as the article in the first post recommends only 10 minutes of extraction time.  I made green dragon several times before and that's always been a big success for me.  I can extend the mileage of 1/8th ounce to 20 blissful doses by making a tincture out of it.  I was hoping to see similar results with a mushroom extraction.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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OfflineKief Ledger
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: pothead_bob]
    #16273702 - 05/23/12 03:31 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

:oldthread:

But I don't think you left it long enough...I think a better way would be to put them in a jar with ever clear and let them sit for a month or so.  Maybe heat it for a bit every so often and be sure to shake regurarly.

Also be sure you powder your mush to allow for more surface area

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OfflineOwsley
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: Doc_T]
    #16273795 - 05/23/12 03:49 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

Moo456 said:
Hmm, what is that actual advantage to this over mushroom tea? Is it really worth wasting everclear?




It's tiny and stores great in the freezer.




For long term storage it can't be beat! Plus I love being able to accurately measure out a dose in less than a minute and have all the benefits of tea (quick onset / no nausea) without the wait.

I want to get a bunch of little airplane liqueur bottles for storage, pre-measure say 3 gram doses. Travel ready and stealth as hell!

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: Kief Ledger]
    #16274317 - 05/23/12 05:30 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, I know, old thread, but I didn't feel like starting another on this topic since this is well documented.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time for a month.  I figured the heat would speed up the process like it does for green dragon.  Also, the tek at the beginning of this thread calls for heat.  But maybe 1 hour, which is what I did, is too long and is breaking down some of the goodness.  The tek calls for 10 min per flush.  I'm gonna try again tonight. But I'm going to do 3 flushes with slightly less alcohol per flush.  I'll try 7 ml per gram.  And I'll boil the mixture for only 10 minutes per flush.

It wasn't a bad time when I tried it last night.  It was just more like a mood enhancer.  We'll see how 3 g goes.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: pothead_bob]
    #16274530 - 05/23/12 06:22 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I used boiling ethanol in a soxhlet extractor, then reconfigured for solvent recovery by fractional distillation.
Probably 3+ hours at temperature, the soxhlet is fun to watch. So I doubt heat is your problem.

But redosing again so soon isn't going to work well, wait a couple weeks.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: Doc_T]
    #16277158 - 05/24/12 06:52 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Well that was a fucking disaster last night.  The first extraction went pretty well.  Then when I was using my garlic press to get all the drops out of the slurry, it snapped and threw slurry all over the kitchen.  That must have been the omen.  I put all the squeezed slurry back into my mason jar and dropped it back into the hot water.  A few seconds in, I hear a pop, I lift up the jar and the water in the boiler pot turns brown.  The bottom of the mason jar broke and dumped the contents of the alcohol slurry into the pot.

So now I'm left with this big pot of water/everclear/mushroom paste thinking "what the fuck do I do now?"  I should have known not to use mason jars as my slurry chamber.  It always worked for green dragon because I always put it in when the water was cool and then brought that temp up.  But with the second extraction of the mushroom slurry, I'm putting the cold jar into hot water and since mason jars are made of shitty glass, thermal expansion is the nail in the coffin.  So after I gathered myself, I strained the pot to collect my slurry back and decided I would just try to reduce that 1.5 qts of brown water down to like half a cup and just add it to the rest of my extract.  I cranked the heat up, put a big fan above it to remove energy from the surface, and monitored the temperature.  I kept the temp of the water below 175 F during the reduction process.

As for the slurry, I put it back into my double boiler (this time using a pot as my slurry vessel), filled it with everclear and did a second extraction for 10 min.  Strained it, put it back in for a 3rd extraction, strained it again.  I figured I might as well throw the spent shit into my brown water mixture to get as much out of it as possible, so I did that, finished reducing the brown water down, strained that and added it all into my mixture.

There were chunks in the tincture since my filtration process was kinda sloppy, so I heated the tincture, reduced it a bit, re-strained and now I'm left with about 8 oz of tincture.  I hope it works after that fiasco.

If I enjoy this mehtod of taking the mushrooms over others, I'm gonna get myself one of those soxhlet extractors to make this whole process easier.  Can you make green dragon in those extractors?  Do they use less everclear than the double boiler method?

I won't be able to wait a couple weeks before redosing cuz I'm making this shit for a trip I'm taking next week.  I was thinking of trying a bit of this batch tomorrow just to see if it worked.  That would be 3 days after my last 1 g dose.  I read somewhere that 3 days is the minimum needed to eliminate tolerance, but that could be pure horse shit for all I know.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: pothead_bob] * 1
    #16277172 - 05/24/12 07:00 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"It's a poor workman as blames his tools" - Sam Gamgee.

Canning jars aren't made from shitty glass. You put a cold jar into hot water.
You'd break a pyrex lab flask doing that. Or any glass object.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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OfflineKief Ledger
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: Doc_T]
    #16277207 - 05/24/12 07:14 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Yes put the pot in the water while still cold and then slowly bring up to tempreture.  This will solve the breaking problem..

Personally I don't think extracting psilo would be too much different from green dragon..

Not sure the difference in solubility rates thou..

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: Doc_T]
    #16277213 - 05/24/12 07:17 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Canning jars (at least the ones I have) aren't made from borosillicate glass, which is much more capable of handling thermal stresses than non-borosillicate glass.  This is why they make laboratory equipment out of borosillicate glass.  Had I used lab equipment to do this instead of regular canning jars, barring any defects with the equipment, I highly doubt this would have happened.  While this thought crossed my mind during the first extraction, I ignored it, unfortunately.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: Kief Ledger]
    #16277246 - 05/24/12 07:27 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Yes put the pot in the water while still cold and then slowly bring up to tempreture.  This will solve the breaking problem..




If I were using a pot, there would be no need to start with cold water since the pot is made of steel, which is ductile and capable of handling thermal expansion without failure.  The brittle material of the canning jar on the other hand...

I'm trying to see what the difference is in the two methods, myself.  It seems like most people recommend multiple extractions when extracting psylocibin.  The green dragon can be made with just one 20 minute extraction and it produces stellar results.  This first mushroom tincutre I made, I did 2 30 min extractions at 170 F.  The effects seemed a bit weaker than just eating the dry material.  This one, I did 3 10 min extractions at 170 F.  I'll see what the difference is, but there's that whole issue of dumping the slurry into the water that may fuck up the results.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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Offlineblf003
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: kingfish4200]
    #16337221 - 06/05/12 05:25 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

5. The crystalline extract can be completely dried by placing the liqueur container in front of a small fan to get most of the liquid out. To complete the drying, desiccant is recommended. Place the small vessel of liqueur into a larger jar with quality desiccant. It takes several days to complete drying. The final crystalline substance can be weighed, worked with and experimented with. It is like big pieces of salt.




I want to throw out my opinion on the old alcohol extraction tek.  I think this is complete bullshit.  I don't mean that you can't extract with ethanol or methanol, but the lovely white crystals part is very sketchy.  There are many potential candidates for what the crystals could be.  My educated guess is that people are extracting a form of mushroom sugar that precipitates out.  Could there be some psilocybin/psilocin in it?  Perhaps, but i think very little.  I believe that if one were to have said chems in pure form, unless they were stabilized in a maleate form (if possible), running a fan over the crystals in plain air would result in a pile of useless blue shit.  Sigma Aldrich sells pure psilocin. It is shipped in solution with methanol.  Any technical chem extraction on mushrooms would utilize nitrogen atmosphere for preventing oxidation of psilocin.  I'm aware that God Shulgin has spoken and supported someone who asked about the crystals.  Maybe he was pressured by the guy asking.  Maybe he wasn't thinking too clearly that day.  Maybe he didn't ask the guy if the crystals were exposed to normal air and turned blue or not.  Those crystals taste sugary to me and didn't produce any noticeable effect, the brown condensed goo however is another story.  My theory is that there are (fats/oils?) that are extracted with the desired chems - which are subsequently locked into the goo and preserved from oxidation even upon reduction to a tootsie roll type of product.

To obtain pure psilocin from mushrooms requires a more sophisticated approach.  Acetic acid extraction, then basified and extracted with ether, then recrystallized with chloroform/heptane, filtered under a stream of nitrogen gas.  Stored in Methanol at low temp.  That is from the rhodium archives anyway.

My two cents. So, if anyone has tripped balls on these crystals alone, please tell us the story :smile: Peace

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Invisiblebreeg89
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: blf003]
    #16343976 - 06/06/12 11:05 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blf003 said:
Quote:

5. The crystalline extract can be completely dried by placing the liqueur container in front of a small fan to get most of the liquid out. To complete the drying, desiccant is recommended. Place the small vessel of liqueur into a larger jar with quality desiccant. It takes several days to complete drying. The final crystalline substance can be weighed, worked with and experimented with. It is like big pieces of salt.




I want to throw out my opinion on the old alcohol extraction tek.  I think this is complete bullshit.  I don't mean that you can't extract with ethanol or methanol, but the lovely white crystals part is very sketchy.  There are many potential candidates for what the crystals could be.  My educated guess is that people are extracting a form of mushroom sugar that precipitates out.  Could there be some psilocybin/psilocin in it?  Perhaps, but i think very little.  I believe that if one were to have said chems in pure form, unless they were stabilized in a maleate form (if possible), running a fan over the crystals in plain air would result in a pile of useless blue shit.  Sigma Aldrich sells pure psilocin. It is shipped in solution with methanol.  Any technical chem extraction on mushrooms would utilize nitrogen atmosphere for preventing oxidation of psilocin.  I'm aware that God Shulgin has spoken and supported someone who asked about the crystals.  Maybe he was pressured by the guy asking.  Maybe he wasn't thinking too clearly that day.  Maybe he didn't ask the guy if the crystals were exposed to normal air and turned blue or not.  Those crystals taste sugary to me and didn't produce any noticeable effect, the brown condensed goo however is another story.  My theory is that there are (fats/oils?) that are extracted with the desired chems - which are subsequently locked into the goo and preserved from oxidation even upon reduction to a tootsie roll type of product.

To obtain pure psilocin from mushrooms requires a more sophisticated approach.  Acetic acid extraction, then basified and extracted with ether, then recrystallized with chloroform/heptane, filtered under a stream of nitrogen gas.  Stored in Methanol at low temp.  That is from the rhodium archives anyway.

My two cents. So, if anyone has tripped balls on these crystals alone, please tell us the story :smile: Peace




Isn't most of the psilocin oxidized during drying?  So if you're extracting from dried flesh you're getting mainly psilocybin (as far as bioactive alkaloids are concerned.  Psilocybin would be a salt, but being an organic salt, I imagine it is still fairly soluble in methanol.  And probably even more so in ethanol.

But if you have experience with them, then I don't know.  I also remember being very skeptical about this - even more so after finding that extraction link in the rhodium archives.

Edited by breeg89 (06/06/12 11:10 PM)

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InvisibleJoeMama1992
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: breeg89]
    #16344244 - 06/07/12 12:16 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psilocybin would be a salt, but being an organic salt, I imagine it is still fairly soluble in methanol.  And probably even more so in ethanol.




What about isopropanol? Obviously not safe to drink the iso. alcohol, but would one be able to retrieve reasonably pure psilocybin/psilocin crystals without any worry of any toxic residue left behind, or destruction of the alkaloids?


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Edited by JoeMama1992 (06/08/12 12:47 AM)

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Invisiblebreeg89
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: JoeMama1992]
    #16347465 - 06/07/12 04:52 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

^ My apologies; I mis-spoke last night.  It is probably LESS soluble in ethanol than methanol, and even less so in isopropanol.

I think the only ways to go about this are the rhodium tek or evaporate the methanol under vacuum.  I saw one guy do the latter and get white crystals.

Edited by breeg89 (06/07/12 05:00 PM)

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Offlinexoc
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Re: ALCOHOL EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN [Re: breeg89]
    #16359243 - 06/10/12 01:19 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I've been reading extraction threads for 3 days, and so far I've found lots of people saying they've got a great method, but it is never really clear what their method is.

What is the 2012 state of the art for those who don't have (or want) meth-lab skills?

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