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Offlinestrangladesh
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associates in computer graphics and web design
    #5066822 - 12/15/05 11:34 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

just wondering if you guys think a degree in this would be a worthy investment. ive noticed some ppl lurking around building sites and what not so i thought i would get a little feed back befor i started takeing classes...

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: strangladesh]
    #5066849 - 12/15/05 11:40 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Honest opinion? It's starting to feel more and more like a saturated field.

If you feel you've got a good eye for visual aesthetics and have a history with design-oriented artwork, you might still want to give it a shot.

Also, if you're going to work towards the website side of things, you're going to need to learn a lot of scripting languages. If this isn't feasible for you, you're not going to get far. (Unless you team up with an experienced coder, perhaps.)

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Offlinestrangladesh
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #5067078 - 12/15/05 12:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

yea im going toward the web design side of things...

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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #5067461 - 12/15/05 02:40 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Also, if you're going to work towards the website side of things, you're going to need to learn a lot of scripting languages. If this isn't feasible for you, you're not going to get far. (Unless you team up with an experienced coder, perhaps.)





:yesnod: yups.

and a degree doesn't mean jack-shit compared to having a job reference proving you can do the work needed.

also, if you focus solely on graphics without learning any of the fundamentals of web-design, you are going to piss off a million and one coders who have to use your screwed up templates, poorly named files, etc (hehe can you tell i've encountered this before?)... make yourself as versatile as possible, i'd say.


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Invisibletak
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: Krishna]
    #5068198 - 12/15/05 05:33 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

im with everyone here.

the field is completely saturated, and in order to be successful you have to be good. And being good = being creative, and no school is going to tech that to you. In the time it would take you to get a degree, you could be well on your way if you have what it takes.

I am not going to hire an artist to paint my picture because he took an art class in college.

I suggest if you want to get into it, start with some projects, and create a portfolio, while expanding your skills and knowledge.

If you are just looking through a course catalouge, and it looked interesting, I would not do it. Not enough money for average work. need to be exceptionally good to be successful.or have good marketing skills, and in that case, marketing is where you wanna be, the design part is just extra ;]


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OfflinekronnyQ
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: strangladesh]
    #5069200 - 12/15/05 09:35 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

WEb designers are a 10 a dozen these days, if you want the big cash you should move into web programming languages like ASP, CF, .NET.

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OfflineYthanA
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: strangladesh]
    #5069336 - 12/15/05 10:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

If you want "big cash" you probably won't get it with any web scripting language. Seuss just made a good post about this, basically it boils down to the fact that easy work pays less than hard work (but you already knew that). If you want any hope of financial success in the IT field, you have to differentiate yourself and offer a service which can't be outsourced to Bagalore for 100 rupees a day. Unfortunately web design doesn't really fall under this category. You should look at getting Cisco certified or something.

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Offlinestrangladesh
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: Ythan]
    #5069638 - 12/16/05 12:42 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

well i like to think im pretty creative and ive been into computers for a while, mabey ill stick with some core classes for now. I really like the whole web based design idea, though im sure i could do some great things with the knowlege.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: strangladesh]
    #5070408 - 12/16/05 08:13 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i was a programmer / designer for at least 4-5 years before going to school for it.. and i had pretty big clients before.

Quote:

being good = being creative, and no school is going to tech that to you.




i disagree. being good is not the same as being creative. being creative is one thing, but being creative and knowing how to use all of the tools in all of the software suites quickly, and the right way, makes a huge difference.

Before getting my degree, I read lots of books on photoshop / after effects / illustrator / 3ds max / flash / and the list goes on and on.

In retrospect, there were simply just some concepts and processes that I could not wrap my head around until going to school. I mean i understood them, but I honetly learned 20 new things for photoshop in 2-3 weeks that have changed the way I work, plus I learned illustrator, 3d max, director, dvd studio, I mean I learned so many different things in such a quick time, I don't see how I could have done it by myself.

Plus, what you may be forgetting is that in an academic atmosphere, you will develop new skills, simply because you are getting together with 20 or more different people all into the same things you are, and using the same programs, etc. Being able to see what 20 different people do with the same requirements is priceless.

happy to say I will be finishing my bachelor in october, and although I still think school is overpriced and most of the lectures are a waste of time, no amount of seminars or tutorials would have brought me this far, this soon.

Plus man, its a catch 22 in a way.. of course the market is saturated, but its even MORE saturated with designers that have not had a college education.... so while they may be creative, and artistic, they also have not been officially qualified in the field, so there are some options not available.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: kotik]
    #5070430 - 12/16/05 08:19 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

have to differentiate yourself and offer a service which can't be outsourced to Bagalore for 100 rupees a day. Unfortunately web design doesn't really fall under this category.




I have to disagree again. What someone overseas can't do is meet with a client, draw out ideas and build on them in person. Most of the time, creative work which includes web design is not going to be outsourced, even in corporate situations. What usually gets outsourced is the IT stuff. So you may find that the actual servers are located overseas, and being maintained by cisco certified technicians over there.

Why? because IT is a universal language. What is not universal, is creativity. The programming languages and software used may be the same, but right-brained jobs are actually more secure in terms of outsourcing than left-brained.

Quote:

You should look at getting Cisco certified or something.




im not saying thats a bad idea at all, but if you originally wanted to be in design, or something more creative, becoming an IT tech is not going to make you happy. trust me, I was an IT tech too (and the money was great).


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflineThePredator
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: kronnyQ]
    #5072550 - 12/16/05 05:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

No need to suggest any asp, asp sucks donkey balls. Instead learn python cgi, perl cgi, php, ajax/crackajax, and other good languages.


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Offlinestrangladesh
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: kotik]
    #5072951 - 12/16/05 07:23 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i think i will stick with this idea as it is the only thing i can see my self studying right now. ill take some core classes first but im pretty sure i want this. it just seems to me that fallowing this path has so many options it would be a mistake not to take advantage of.

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Offlinestrangladesh
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: strangladesh]
    #5081445 - 12/19/05 10:58 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

ok im signing up for classes right now, im gonna go for it im takeing 2 art classes an introduction to computer programing and a math class so if any one has any more input or suggestions for me lets here it..

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Invisiblegema
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: strangladesh]
    #5081472 - 12/19/05 11:08 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

if youre going to get into web design, learn flash and actionscripting.

Edited by gema (12/19/05 03:16 PM)

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Offlinekotik
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: gema]
    #5099277 - 12/23/05 07:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

im takeing 2 art classes an introduction to computer programing and a math class




awesome man! p.s. ya ASP sucks, but you will not be making many corporate sites that use open source languages like php. 90% of the time they rely on ASP or Coldfusion. Speaking from experience here: I have worked for Dell, Veritas, Symantec, AG Edwards (intranet), Ritz Carlton and a few banks. Oh ya, and the united states air force. I promise you, PHP is not an option for any of these companies.

php is also one of my favorite languages =P


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: kotik]
    #5099282 - 12/23/05 07:32 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

after you get through the programming course, keep us updates, I could def. give you some more suggestions depending on what you like / dislike in the computer class.


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Offlinestrangladesh
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: kotik]
    #5099525 - 12/23/05 09:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i will im takeing an interduction to computer programming, 2 and 3 dementional multimedia drawing, an a math class

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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: strangladesh]
    #5102059 - 12/24/05 01:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Allow me to impart my own bias on this subject.
Do yourself a favor and search monster or hotjobs etc, for 'graphic design', 'web design' and 'multimedia' jobs. Even if you live in a large city you?ll be surprised how few jobs there are. Likewise, if you decide go into the field then use these job postings as a general guide for what people are looking for. Database, server/routing hardware configuration and anything commerce related will pay better than straight web/multimedia or graphic design. Do something that can't be outsourced and you'll be much better off. Diversify!

An associate isn't worth shit these days. And for fucks sake don?t waste your time at a non ?nationally? accredited college (such as any of the Art Institutes) or you may fuck yourself royally down the road. I would suggest not going into IT in any way shape or form. Keep it as a hobby and move onto something more interesting or profitable, unless you?re a glutton for punishment that is. As has already been said, the IT field is damn near saturated and you'll be competing for jobs with bachelors and masters degreed candidates. In addition you?ll be competing with people who may only have an associate degree but they got in when the market was good and established themselves when the market was bountiful. These are the people who do pretty well today.

While I agree it has a lot to do with what's in your portfolio consider this scenario for a moment: There is an HR person collecting resumes from temp firms, placement agencies, creative groups, schools, newspaper ads, monsterjobs, etc...lets say HR collected 100 resumes for one multimedia/web/graphic design job (100-200 is not an uncommon number in big cities these days). HR may run the r?sum??s through scanners looking for keywords etc...if your resume doesn't contain certain keywords like "bachelors degree" yours is going to the shredder. Ok, lets say HR doesn't run your resume through a scanner and they hand scan it, they view your online p[ortfolio or cdrom and they like it, great! They throw yours into a stack of potential candidates...A week later they call you in for an interview, along with a few other people. You interview, bla, bla, "I have an associates degree", bla, bla, bla, they like you and say don't call us we'll call you (keep in mind they still consider you a candidate). Ok, now in the meantime they've interviewed several other potential candidates; another woman with an associate?s degree and a guy with a bachelor's degree. Now, chances are, if they like the guy with the bachelor?s degree as much as they like you they are going to hire him/her preferentially because the perception will be that he/she is more well rounded and well educated. Even if you get the job it is unlikely that you?ll move into any kind of project management because they will most likely hire someone with an upper level degree from the outside to take that position. This is only one scenario mind you. I've got a million reasons why this is a bad industry to be in right now (especially with an associates) and not enough room here to explain them all.

Another thing to consider is that when a company wants to tighten its purse strings some of the first jobs they will eliminate are in the graphics and IT departments. You will be disposable. They can always hire temps, design firms on a project basis or freelancers who don't whine about poor benefits or ask for raises.

Keep in mind that you will need to stay diversified and tech savvy to the hilt in order to remain competitive. Most companies won't be sending you to classes to update your skills. They expect you to buy books and play with new programs during your spare time. This means you will have no spare time. Hopefully you'll like the field enough to spend almost every waking moment trying to keep up with the latest software, new (better) software, scripting languages, programming languages, hardware, browser compatibility issues, server platforms, graphic trends and new technology.

Forget about 100% creative license, unless you end up freelancing or get lucky. Once you get out of school you become a class ?A? company bitch. You don?t get to utilize all of those cool ideas you have about cutting edge designs, mystery meat interfaces and ingenious layouts. Everything you create revolves around bringing in the bucks. Sales and marketing gets most of the creative license in most businesses. You may end up working very closely with the sales and marketing departments. Remember that businesses want you to design works that bring in new customers and new money; it?s all about the bottom line. Marketing comes to you and tells you what they want and you get the challenge of keeping them happy while they collect bonuses and commissions off of your million-dollar account winning artwork and designs, all while having the pressure of meeting million dollar deadlines. The magazine advertisement you design, that brings in new customers, doesn?t make you any huge Cadillac and Rolex buying commissions.

I guess what I?m really saying is that you better really love what you?re doing because you will be doing nothing else and it?s a thankless, cutthroat, profession.

That said?Good luck, really! I wish you well in all of you endeavors and hope it?s something you enjoy. If you really love it then don?t let me or anyone else poison your well brother. The best advice I can give you is portfolio, portfolio, portfolio! Keep every project you create. Print out your graphics in high color, print your scripts and programming code onto paper and put all of this in a snappy and well presented package that employers can flip through. Have a positive attitude & sing the company song. You?ll do just fine.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #5102202 - 12/24/05 02:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Do yourself a favor and search monster or hotjobs etc, for 'graphic design', 'web design' and 'multimedia' jobs. Even if you live in a large city you?ll be surprised how few jobs there are.




ive had plenty of jobs from monster.com, dice.com, and a few others.. but ya, normally you wont find many listings. that doesnt mean the jobs arent out there. to be honest, in the past 2 years i have turned down more jobs than i have taken, just because i did not have the time to do it all. IMO there are so many web design and multimedia jobs out there, its just hard to decide where I want to move, and who I want to work for, if I don't go 100% freelance. 90% of the jobs you will be working in multimedia are not going to be advertised. They will be referalls, and a result of networking.

Quote:

Likewise, if you decide go into the field then use these job postings as a general guide for what people are looking for. Database, server/routing hardware configuration and anything commerce related will pay better than straight web/multimedia or graphic design. Do something that can't be outsourced and you'll be much better off. Diversify!




agreed, but monster.com and etc are not authorities on what jobs are available. they are only showing you what jobs are available to those that frequent monster.com and etc. bottom line: if you are good at what you do, and can communicate clearly and effectively, you will not have a problem finding work. I am far from being an expert in my field, but that hasn't affected me at all.

In fact, the last job i took off monster.com was designing an intranet for a security company, and it paid $25 per hour, plus 1.5x overtime. I was working 11 hour days and loving every minute of it. All contract work.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinestrangladesh
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Re: associates in computer graphics and web design [Re: kotik]
    #5103245 - 12/24/05 09:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i know an associates isn't much but its a short term goal, if i like it that much i will stick with it. i am still unsure of this whole thing but, fuck it you only live once so im gonna stick with it and see were it takes me.

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