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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: KIDS! We give this stuff to kids! [Re: poke smot!]
    #5064486 - 12/14/05 08:53 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

poke smot! said:
Hrm, still... bi0 has a point.

I remember when I was in elementary school. I can put myself in that consciousness. I remember being distracted by things I considered "neat", ie things that inspired my imagination. Lights, mechanical and electrical gizmos, I wanted to know how they work.

That innate curiosity was further cultivated in me in my younger years by parents who encouraged me to explore my world. Others played with toys; I took mine apart.

If I were to analyze that, I'de say that while other kids were doing goal-oriented things, ie trying to meet a short-term goal (build a lego tower, win a game, etc), I was trying to observe my surroundings, learn how things worked, for a long-term goal which I never questioned.

Surprisingly, I was never put on those meds, even though I was fairly distracted early on in school. I was considered for accelerated classes but "lacked motivation". I simply was consumed by my imagination, not interested in the here-now stuff.

Later on it became apparent that I had asbergers syndrome. 





Do tell? I was pretty much the same in every way. I don't think I have Asberger's...... :confused:


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Offlinefreddurgan
Techgnostic
Male

Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 3,648
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: KIDS! We give this stuff to kids! [Re: Vvellum]
    #5064691 - 12/14/05 09:50 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
anyone else think ADD or ADHD is a bogus and overly-hyped disorder?




I think it's 100% bogus made up bullshit. But I didn't want to say it cause it tends to push peoples' buttons.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: KIDS! We give this stuff to kids! [Re: freddurgan]
    #5064699 - 12/14/05 09:53 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

freddurgan said:
Quote:

bi0 said:
anyone else think ADD or ADHD is a bogus and overly-hyped disorder?




I think it's 100% bogus made up bullshit. But I didn't want to say it cause it tends to push peoples' buttons.




Not everyone. I wonder if it's bullshit too.....


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InvisibleBoom
just a tester
Male
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
Re: KIDS! We give this stuff to kids! [Re: freddurgan]
    #5064702 - 12/14/05 09:55 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

All I know is that my doc gave me Ritalin after he asked me questions such as:

1) Do you get bored by a long lecture class?
WHO DOESN'T

2) Does your mind wander in this situation
Umm

and a bunch of ridiculous shit like that :lol:

All I know is that I have a pretty nice pile of pills for studying for big tests and finals.  I don't take them regularly by any means, but when I have something big coming up, it helps me get into "game time" mode :yesnod:


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: KIDS! We give this stuff to kids! [Re: Boom]
    #5064726 - 12/14/05 10:03 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

is it really more beneficial than caffeine though?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineKonnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 9 months, 19 days
Re: KIDS! We give this stuff to kids! [Re: Boom]
    #5064731 - 12/14/05 10:05 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Booooom said:
All I know is that my doc gave me Ritalin after he asked me questions such as:

1) Do you get bored by a long lecture class?
WHO DOESN'T

2) Does your mind wander in this situation
Umm

and a bunch of ridiculous shit like that :lol:

All I know is that I have a pretty nice pile of pills for studying for big tests and finals.  I don't take them regularly by any means, but when I have something big coming up, it helps me get into "game time" mode :yesnod:




Textbook example of a god awful job of diagnosis. Only a neurologist (and to be honest only a handfull of neurologists) is qualified and experienced enough to properly diagnose ADD or ADHD. And he did so after a battery of tests ranging from phsyiological testing to Q&A and behavioral observation. And every time I came in to have the prescription refilled (there's a strict limit to number of refills on a prescription for a controlled substance) I was subjected to a checkup of brief Q&A and cursory behavioral examination.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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InvisibleBoom
just a tester
Male
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
Re: KIDS! We give this stuff to kids! [Re: leery11]
    #5064895 - 12/14/05 10:40 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
is it really more beneficial than caffeine though?




err...IMO, yes.

Caffeine seems to make me jittery and talkative, Ritalin makes me smooth and collected. The two together are a hell of a study/big test taking combo


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Invisibledanamine
oldster
Male

Registered: 01/31/05
Posts: 620
Loc: MA
Re: KIDS! We give this stuff to kids! [Re: Konnrade]
    #5064947 - 12/14/05 10:51 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I honestly think that "ADD" is a product of environmental changes in societal norms.  For example, what is one of the most common activities for young children up through grade school?  Watching television. 

During a typical half hour television show, one watches 7 minutes of material that is interesting and deserving of ones attention, followed by 3 or 4 minutes of commercials which are boring and not so deserving of attention, then more material which the child wants to view, then more commercials, and so on.  Thus, children are trained to pay attention in small spurts of time, and then to zone out for a few minutes.  So in class, a child pays attention for a few minutes, and then zones out to find something more interesting.  This is just one example of many different things that come into play with children's behavioral growth and how it relates to ADD.


If you look back before the television age, you rarely, if ever, hear of ADD.  I mean, psychology existed in the 30s, 40s and 50s.  Many of our greatest educational theorists; Adler, Rotter, Maslow, Rogers etc. were all writing books, practicing psychology, lecturing and researching well before the 60s and 70s when ADD started to emerge in our culture, it's not like we were blind to psychiatry prior to the 90s.  I think we often forget that. Our parents are hard pressed to find examples of kids in their classes  had "ADD", yet those same people who were once functioning children and adolescents without "ADD" are now being diagnosed with Adult ADD.  That is an even newer manifestation of this syndrome. 

If you see commercials on TV, they even indicate drugs like Concerta and Focalin for Adult ADD, while ritalin and adderall as well as dextro are more commonly given to children.  It's a huge cash windfall for big pharma to patent new forms of the same medication (Concerta being Methylphenidate HCL in a time-released form, same as ritalin, focalin being dextromethylphenidate, an isomer of the methylphenidate molecule which is about 2x as potent as regular ritalin).  Even adderall has been given a new time-released format.

I hate saying "It's a conspiracy man", but it really comes down to money, as I pointed out in my last post.  Pumping our children full of stimulants to get them through school, despite the likely detremental side-effects of constant amphetamine use.  For parents, when that triple mocha latte with a double shot of espresso just doesn't have the same kick anymore, a couple of uppers surely will.  I can't imagine if my parents were on speed all of the time, all I can think of is some serous emotional rollercoasters when living with them. 

It's truly sad that this is the state of affairs, despite being a psychology major in college, and being someone very intrigued by neuroscience and neuropsychology, I have a great deal of concerns with the state of the pharma industry in this country.  I could go on but I'm sure you've read enough of my ramblings :smile:

Peace
-Dan


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OfflineKonnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 9 months, 19 days
Re: KIDS! We give this stuff to kids! [Re: danamine]
    #5065077 - 12/14/05 11:20 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I did watch a lot of TV as a child. But being the nerdly little boy that I was, I pretty much just watched a whole bunch of PBS and Discovery Channel shows. Ah NOVA, how I love thee. I'm looking forward to my new schedule. I'll actually be home when NOVA comes on so I can start watching it again. I owe 95% of my knowledge of theoretical astrophysics to watching NOVA programs about it.

Generally, though... attention spans are on the decline. It has been concluded that average humans in america cannot focus on anything for more than 20 minutes without there being an intrigiung subject change to refocus them. And thats a high-end maximum. Commonly an attention span is somewhere around 2 to 20 seconds.

I would however have to say that I genuinely do posess some sort of uncommon neurochemical behavior. Most pharmaceuticals have effects on my that differ from the norm, as do a few other psychoactives. I beleive I also originally had some sort of brainwave reading test during my original diagnosis, although I may be remembering wrong, this was when I was in kindergarten after all.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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Invisibledanamine
oldster
Male

Registered: 01/31/05
Posts: 620
Loc: MA
Re: KIDS! We give this stuff to kids! [Re: Konnrade]
    #5065108 - 12/14/05 11:28 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

There has been some theorizing that people with ADD have shown a lack of development in their frontal lobe, the impulse control center of the brain, however, heavy stimulant use also causes this same neurological defect. Is it the syndrome or the cure that causes this?

-Dan


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: KIDS! We give this stuff to kids! [Re: danamine]
    #5065232 - 12/15/05 12:07 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

danamine said:
I honestly think that "ADD" is a product of environmental changes in societal norms.  For example, what is one of the most common activities for young children up through grade school?  Watching television. 

During a typical half hour television show, one watches 7 minutes of material that is interesting and deserving of ones attention, followed by 3 or 4 minutes of commercials which are boring and not so deserving of attention, then more material which the child wants to view, then more commercials, and so on.  Thus, children are trained to pay attention in small spurts of time, and then to zone out for a few minutes.  So in class, a child pays attention for a few minutes, and then zones out to find something more interesting.  This is just one example of many different things that come into play with children's behavioral growth and how it relates to ADD.


If you look back before the television age, you rarely, if ever, hear of ADD.  I mean, psychology existed in the 30s, 40s and 50s.  Many of our greatest educational theorists; Adler, Rotter, Maslow, Rogers etc. were all writing books, practicing psychology, lecturing and researching well before the 60s and 70s when ADD started to emerge in our culture, it's not like we were blind to psychiatry prior to the 90s.  I think we often forget that. Our parents are hard pressed to find examples of kids in their classes  had "ADD", yet those same people who were once functioning children and adolescents without "ADD" are now being diagnosed with Adult ADD.  That is an even newer manifestation of this syndrome. 

If you see commercials on TV, they even indicate drugs like Concerta and Focalin for Adult ADD, while ritalin and adderall as well as dextro are more commonly given to children.  It's a huge cash windfall for big pharma to patent new forms of the same medication (Concerta being Methylphenidate HCL in a time-released form, same as ritalin, focalin being dextromethylphenidate, an isomer of the methylphenidate molecule which is about 2x as potent as regular ritalin).  Even adderall has been given a new time-released format.

I hate saying "It's a conspiracy man", but it really comes down to money, as I pointed out in my last post.  Pumping our children full of stimulants to get them through school, despite the likely detremental side-effects of constant amphetamine use.  For parents, when that triple mocha latte with a double shot of espresso just doesn't have the same kick anymore, a couple of uppers surely will.  I can't imagine if my parents were on speed all of the time, all I can think of is some serous emotional rollercoasters when living with them. 

It's truly sad that this is the state of affairs, despite being a psychology major in college, and being someone very intrigued by neuroscience and neuropsychology, I have a great deal of concerns with the state of the pharma industry in this country.  I could go on but I'm sure you've read enough of my ramblings :smile:

Peace
-Dan




exactly :thumbup:


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