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OfflineCubenisseur
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5147178 - 01/06/06 02:07 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Oh well, I gave it a shot.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: Cubenisseur]
    #5147248 - 01/06/06 02:29 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Pff. Quitter.

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OfflineCubenisseur
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: Cubenisseur]
    #5147359 - 01/06/06 02:52 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Protons don't orbit around nuclei. In fact, neither do electrons.



Huh, than what are these?

Thats how we get light dude.  :tongue2:

Quote:

The term "time space" is rarely, if ever, used by serious physicists.



Huh...guess Einstien and these other bozos ought to start listening to YOU!  :rolleyes:

Gravity -- not what it seems
Eventually Einstein concluded that gravity was an effect of the space-time through which objects fall. What is space-time? It's an abstraction that causes physicists, in desperation, to start babbling about sheets and bowling balls. When a massive object (the ball) distorts space-time, then other objects tend to fall toward the resulting "valley" of space-time.

Thus for gravity, Einstein substituted geometry...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

As if in a dream where we swam but could not reach the shore, the universe likewise recedes as we study it, destined to disappear at the whim of time, space and the laws of physics. All that will be left are fading ghosts of distant galaxies, each an afterimage preserving a final moment as a swarm of stars slips into a netherworld of cosmic invisibility.

We've got less than 100 billion years left to study it all. And already, some galaxies are beyond reach, their potential inhabitants impossible to contact.

This is the universe as Abraham Loeb sees it.

Accelerating problem

Loeb, a theoretical astrophysicist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, peers through Einstein-colored glasses. His view of the end of the visible universe is rooted in the General Theory of Relativity and based on the notion that everything is expanding at an ever-increasing pace.

All distant galaxies are moving away from us and moving faster all the time. Few researchers debate this point. Few have predicted its ultimate consequence quantitatively as Loeb did.

Eventually, Loeb says, galaxies will recede at the speed of light, making it impossible for their light -- or any other radiation or information -- to traverse the cosmos to our home in the Milky Way Galaxy.

"Any given source accelerates away from us and eventually reaches a speed larger than the speed of light so that photons emitted from it cannot catch up with the cosmic expansion, relative to us," he said.

Already, galaxies more than 6 or 7 billion light-years away are beyond contact, Loeb figures. Such galaxies, measured by astronomers to have a redshift of 2 or more, will not be able to transmit any signal to us in the future due to the accelerated expansion of the universe.

"Suppose there are extraterrestrial civilizations in these galaxies," Loeb said in a telephone interview. "If we send a signal to them now, they will never see it."


  Back to basics
 
Quote:

I disagree. On that basis, people living near the poles experience time differently than people near the equator simply because they spin slower.




http://www.astrosciences.info/cycles.htm



http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/time/timeP.htm

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/Cosmos/GalaxyBirth.html

Read up chum. :bye:

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: Cubenisseur]
    #5147969 - 01/06/06 04:44 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cubenisseur said:
Huh, than what are these?





Those are diagrams showing an outdated view of atoms.  Even if you go by those diagrams, there are no protons "in orbit".

Quote:


Quote:

The term "time space" is rarely, if ever, used by serious physicists.



Huh...guess Einstien and these other bozos ought to start listening to YOU! 





So "time space" is the same thing as "space-time"? :confused:

As for those links, I found very little new information in there apart from the stuff which was clearly bullshit.  The wave theory of time is something I hadn't read about before, but (although I don't even see any evidence that the theory holds any weight---not even the excellent drawings) I don't see how it corroborates anything you have said since it clearly concludes:

Quote:

Although it has taken some 100 years, Wave Theory has finally vindicated Einstein's notion of relativity in a manner that does not contradict Newton's brilliant idea of absolute time.




Maybe you should buy a textbook and do some "reading up" of your own.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: Cubenisseur]
    #5148041 - 01/06/06 04:54 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Thats how we get light dude.

Cubenisseur, you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. For one, you are using the Bohr model of atomic structure which hasn't been used by physicists for about 100 years.

The only people who still use the Bohr model of the atom are people who read Popular Mechanics magazine and fancy themselves physicists and 6th grade science teachers.

You would do well to read a high school physics book before you go around implying that no one here is smart enough to understand you. :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineCubenisseur
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: Diploid]
    #5148177 - 01/06/06 05:21 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I think you guys are missing the point and nitpicking at this point. I posted a lot of relavant material to my argument.

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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: psyka]
    #5150636 - 01/07/06 12:49 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psyka said:
Well you said time is real. I say it is not. This is not the first time radical ideas were proposed and adopted to science.

The more I ponder time, the more I understand it cant be real. We invented it to explain the summation and perception of all the total motion surrounding us. Think about it.

Time distortions are real, just maybe not exact to our mathematical simulations. If the summation of the atoms in galaxy A are measured to be slower than the summation of the atoms in galaxy B, is there not a time difference in similar events happening in each galaxy?




If time is not real how can there be any type of distinction between the two specimens?

Ah, aren't atoms pretty consistent throughout the whole universe. This particular plane anyway, and if something existed in our plane of reality whether it be A or B wouldn't it be subject to the same laws the rest of the the known physical reality is?

Differences in the reaction time between A and B having nothing to do with the constant that is time, it has more to do with the physical properties of A and B.

Times is distance and the only way time wouldn't exist is if everything happened simultaneously and instantaneously.

Time is invariably tied to distance which is invariably tied to speed, this means time is out of necessity a relative thing, it certainly exists though.


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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #5150654 - 01/07/06 12:53 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

also if the universe is expanding time is slowing down, this is because the distance between point a and b is becoming greater. More energy is needed to travel that distance in equitime, this in turns calls for more energy which we know is impossible because enrgy is neither created nor destroyed.


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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #5150989 - 01/07/06 02:29 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DocPsilocybin said:
To say time is a measurment of motion is wrong. If we reverse the motion does time also reverse? No. Time is barely understood and complex. According to Einstein it's relative to the observer, but yet we know very little of what time actually is.




Man time is relative to motion, not direction. Motion is not a function of direction, just the opposite.

It is relative to the obeserver,

observer a has x amount of time, so does observer b.

They are both travelling to the same place, they are travelling by the same means.

Observer b is moving twelve miles an hour faster than observer a.

Who is going to reach the destination faster? Does not this mean that observer b will have more time at the destination than observer a?

Does this mean that observer a has the less time?
No, it merely means that he has less time in one place than B, but more time in another. He spends more time in his means than b does, but less time in his end than b does.

This is how it's relative.
Now, the significance comes from desire or necessity(function).-
Does being at the end have an effect that is aboslutely imperative, for example, the interception of foreign bodies in a given system. Will the preventative measures reach the intruders in "time" to thwart their intended effect, or will they arrive too late? Also need to consider the intended effect, malicious or benevolent. If benevolent it would be safe to presume that time is no consequence, unless ofcourse the benevolent factors are introduced in order to supercede the resdent factors.

Time is relative to cause and effect.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: LifeIsSweet]
    #5151005 - 01/07/06 02:34 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

How is the universe like a hologram?

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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #5151015 - 01/07/06 02:37 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

What the bleep do you know?


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #5151156 - 01/07/06 03:46 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


DocPsilocybin said:
To say time is a measurment of motion is wrong. If we reverse the motion does time also reverse? No





How do you know?

Think about what it would be like if the velocity of everything in the universe---every particle, every electromagnetic wave, everything---was simultaneously reversed in direction (v --> -v). Accidents would unhappen, fallen cups would reassemble on the table, the processes which encoded the memories in your brain would work backwards, erasing them, you would begin getting younger, etc. This, to me, seems indistinguishable from a reversal of time.

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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5151200 - 01/07/06 04:07 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

The implication there is that having something done once for the first time is indicative and synomous of the progression of time. Proving that events chronicle time, thus two events chronicle the continued flow of time.


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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #5151210 - 01/07/06 04:16 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Basically time describes change and changes is affected by motion, therefore time is a measurement of motion.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5151664 - 01/07/06 06:32 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

(v --> -v). Accidents would unhappen, fallen cups would reassemble on the table, the processes which encoded the memories in your brain would work backwards, erasing them, you would begin getting younger, etc. This, to me, seems indistinguishable from a reversal of time.

I don't think this is true.

In a classical universe, it would be true, but we know the universe isn't classical. The effects of Quantum Chromodynamic confinement is asymmetrical with respect to velocity, for example, and would prevent the universe from 'unwinding' by v --> -v alone.

Also, at very high energies, mass is not conserved for very brief instants. Running a collision backward without conservation of mass would not necessarily result in all the observables unwinding the same way they wound.

Hmm... the more I think about it, the deeper this question seems to become...


--------------------
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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: Diploid]
    #5153051 - 01/08/06 01:42 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Mind you, I'm no Physics major but it seems to me that time is a measurement of entropy or at least is a function of entropy. Or perhaps vice-versa. :justdontknow:

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: The Illusion of Time....what does it mean? [Re: Diploid]
    #5153329 - 01/08/06 06:03 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, when I wrote that I couldn't think of any time-asymmetric equations governing our universe but I suspected there may be some (although I doubted that we had actually discovered any of them---I've been taught repeatedly that time has no preferred direction). I don't know much about QCD in general and I can't find any information on quantum chromodynamic confinement anywhere.

However, I did find this excellent book: http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~as3/time-direction/. Three of the chapters are available online. I think I'll buy it.

After skimming over the available chapters of the book, it seems like the authors came to the conclusion that it is not known whether the universe is symmetrical in time or not.

As for the high-energy phenomena you wrote about, don't forget that energy conservation can also be broken for brief periods of time (even in a vacuum) so that the reverse processes are allowed.

/me goes off to do some laundry and ponder.

Edited by ChuangTzu (01/08/06 06:15 AM)

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