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encryptor

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 1,162
Last seen: 20 days, 8 hours
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Computer Ideas!
#5050035 - 12/11/05 09:18 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hi guys and dolls. I'm going for computer science, technology background. so far I've worked alot with c++ and assembly language. I know windows pretty good and i understand how to use the c: prompt too. Math is my speciality. I'm 24 looking for ideas that are going to put my ahead once I get a 4 year degree. Like, what programming languages do you guys like? which is better, Windows or Linux? What computer related jobs are going to pay the big bucks? thanks.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: encryptor]
#5051154 - 12/12/05 04:12 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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> Math is my speciality.
The the area of comp sci that you want to look into is called Numerical Methods. Basically, it is the science of appling a computer to mathmatical problems. Go to the local university and find out who teaches the numerical methods courses. Find that persons office hours and go in and talk with them. They will know more about the field than any of us, most likely.
> what programming languages do you guys like?
It doesn't matter... what does matter is what programming languages the guy that writes your paycheck likes. 
Personally, I like C, objective-C, and Java. I dislike C++, fortan, and cobol.
> which is better, Windows or Linux?
It depends upon what you are doing.
> What computer related jobs are going to pay the big bucks?
Management.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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encryptor

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 1,162
Last seen: 20 days, 8 hours
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: Seuss]
#5051195 - 12/12/05 04:46 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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thanks for your input. i would have given you 5 shrooms, but i apparently have already. thanks!
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: encryptor]
#5051229 - 12/12/05 05:28 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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No worries. My good friend from college that was a numerical methods nut is now working for McDonald Douglas in their high security area designing computation fluid dynamics simulations of hypersonic flow in aircraft engines. If you read about the SCRAM jets that NASA has been playing with lately... he wrote the code that they used to test nozzle designs within the engine (or at least what they were using back in the late 90's). Another good friend that worked on visualization code is now working for a univeristy as a full time staff that writes support code for grad students. Both guys make in the $60k per year living in a low cost midwest area.
If you are really interested in money, then management is where you need to aim. Get a comp sci BS along with a master in business (MBA) and you will be sitting in a good spot for a high paying job. However, with age I have learned that happiness is much more valuable than money. My advice, do what you like rather than doing something just because it pays a lot.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK



Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 8,334
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: Seuss]
#5051348 - 12/12/05 07:24 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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if i were 24 and had strong interests in math and computers i might look into computer security and data encryption. these fields are exploding and need fresh minds and ideas. quantum encryption is a field ripe for the taking.
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6,446
Loc: TEXAS
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: encryptor]
#5051819 - 12/12/05 10:49 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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what school do you go to, if you dont mind me asking? I happen to be a CS major too, and I thought my school was one of the few left that still teach Assembly....i hate it, but im pretty good at it, by the way, i go to Angelo State University.....
peace
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: supra]
#5051868 - 12/12/05 11:08 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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> one of the few left that still teach Assembly
Really? Assembly should be a required course for any comp sci major. How can one understand how a computer works without understanding assembly?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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ThePredator
Your a eunich ifyou don't useunix!

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 542
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: Seuss]
#5052573 - 12/12/05 02:12 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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C++ is good for a compiled language because it is OOP (if you don't like OOP you need to be lynched), but for actual software making it can take forever to get even simple apps together so you need a glue language, I would suggest python because python is sexy. Also you can learn ALGOL to know the history and evolution of programming and Pascal never hurt anyone. If your gonna be a cs major learn *nix, because we really need more people who get hired to push for the switch between windows and *nix.
Unfortunatly programing is a dying job (now alot if not most is automated) so I would suggest going for a networking or encryptispecialties.
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Edited by ThePredator (12/12/05 02:14 PM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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> C++ is good for a compiled language because it is OOP
Thats like saying windows is good because a lot of people use it. C++, while being an object oriented language, is certainly not a good example of an object oriented language. The objective nature of C++ was tacked onto C rather than built from the ground up. C++ makes a lot of compromises on the objective model to gain performance. Using a real object oriented language, such as smalltalk (or objective-C), will illustrate C++'s short comings. The downside of C++ is the complexity of the language.
> if you don't like OOP you need to be lynched
There are times that OOP is nice and times that it is not. Use the proper tool for the proper job. I am certainly not going to use an object oriented language to program a computation fluid dynamics problem on a supercomputer. I would be wasting thousands of dollars in CPU time for the runtime overhead of the OOP. Likewise, if I am working on a GUI, I am certainly going to use an OOP. Trying to do a procedural implementation of a GUI is a nightmare in complexity.
> I would suggest python because python is sexy
I prefer tools that get the job done, rather than tools that look... sexy... 
> Also you can learn ALGOL
Might as well learn fortran and cobol while you are at it? Why in the world would you recommend somebody learn ALGOL? Smalltalk or Java would be a much better recommendation. Here is an example "hello world" ALGOL program:
Code:
BEGIN FILE F (KIND=REMOTE); EBCDIC ARRAY E [0:11]; REPLACE E BY "HELLO WORLD!"; WHILE TRUE DO BEGIN WRITE (F, *, E); END; END.
Yes, it is pretty icky and reminds one of the days of mainframes. Smalltalk or Java are both much better languages that are actually worth learning. (A bit of trivia... The original Java thread implementation was called "green threads" and was lifted from an ALGOL implementation... back when Java was called Oak, before it was released to the public.)
> Unfortunately programing is a dying job (now alot if not most is automated)
Automated? I think you mean outsourced... to India...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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ThePredator
Your a eunich ifyou don't useunix!

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 542
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: Seuss]
#5057517 - 12/13/05 01:24 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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OOP is much better for any type of application because its versitile, reusable, and maintainable. If your gonn do fluid dynamics use lisp, best language for math.
Thiers more to python than its sexyness. Its a very versatile language that can glue anything together, it has a relativly small overhead when using CPython and it can be written quickly. Clear syntax and proper object use is also reinforced.
If you learn ALGOL any other language based on it is easier to learn, Java is slow and clunky and relativly useless unless you must make something that is cross platform and even then python outpreforms it.
C++ is good for application programming, Lisp for calculus programming, python for glueing multiple languages together, Asm for OS's and things that must run very quickly, C for anything that won't benefit from an object hierachy, and other compiled languages don't hurt to learn.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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> OOP is much better for any type of application because its
Bzzt... Incorrect response. For example, if I need a quick script to take the password file and send an email to everybody that hasn't accessed their account in 10 days, then I am going to use a procedural scripting language such, as Perl or borne shell, not an OOP language.
Sure, OOP is a great paradigm, but it isn't the end-all problem solver for every single application. There is overhead for OOP processing at runtime. When an application cannot afford the runtime overhead, then procedural programming must be used. Some OOP languages like C++ do a very good job of getting rid of the runtime overhead, but they do so at the expense of programming complexity. Nothing comes for free, it is all a tradeoff.
> If your gonn do fluid dynamics use lisp, best language for math.
I think you mean lists... not math. Lisp has a huge runtime overhead, and is almost always interpreted. Perhaps you mean Fortran, not lisp. I'm not sure what you mean, but lisp and complex math problems do not go together. The one thing lisp is good at with math is large presision numbers... because lisp treats numbers as a list of digits, there is no fixed presision... because lisp treats numbers as a list of digits, it is EXTREMLY SLOW when doing mathmatical calculations.
Code:
;; The following lisp function computes the rational approximation ;; to the square root (rational) with a precision dictated by i.
(defun rsqrtr (i r) (declare (type (integer 0 *) i) (type rational r)) (let ((n (numerator r)) (d (denominator r))) (let ((sn (rsqrti i n)) (sd (rsqrti i d))) (/ sn sd))))
> If you learn ALGOL any other language based on it is easier to learn
Why bother learning ALGOL when you can learn smalltalk? Smalltalk is a modern language that takes a lot from the ALGOL paradigm, but releases the programmer from many of the 1960's programming constraints. Of course, if you are working with a mainframe, then by all means, stick with ALGOL. I prefer the modern world computing rather than wasting my time with archaic languages such as COBOL, Fortran, and ALGOL.
> Java is slow and clunky
Actually, it is the stack based JVM that is slow and clunky, the language itself is easy to optimize to very fast native code. However, Java is an extremly strong typed and well defined object oriented language. It runs on almost any platform, and is free. These benefits, along with the supporting classes, make it an excellent teaching language.
> C++ is good for application programming
The compilers for C++ are getting better, and the standard is finally being accepted, though nothing will help reduce the complexity of C++. (If you ever tried writing portable C++ code, you know what I mean about the standards...)
> Lisp for calculus programming
I would love to see the people's faces when I asked them if their supercomputer supports a lisp interpreter for my computation fluid dynamics code. I would be laughed out of the room. I will stick with Matlab for my calculus programming. For my CFD code, I will stick with C and if I need large presision which is highly unlikely, I will use an mp library, such as opensource libgmp.
If I am working with an AI application, then I will probably use lisp.
> python for glueing multiple languages together
I have no complaints against python. Good, solid, OOP language.
> Asm for OS's and things that must run very quickly
Having written an OS from the ground up, I can say with certainty, that very little assembly is used. The only place I used assembly exclusively was for the master boot record, the boot record, and interrupt/trap/fault handlers. I used a bit of inline assembly within C when needed to do something like flush the TLB. Assembly equals BUGS on anything over a few hundred lines of code.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: Seuss]
#5061145 - 12/14/05 07:10 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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i never really liked c... I really always liked OOP too, but I have made c, and I even got into ASM for a little while.. shit I had to learn fortran, cobol and even ADA, but I started out on qbasic, then visual basic.
now, I really like Actionscript, Lingo (Director), PHP, ASP, Coldfusion, html (and xml / css / ajax / java / etc ), and even more recently, RealBasic, which I had not heard of until a few months ago, but I have really been liking it.
I would have to say the highest paying jobs were with ASP.net and Coldfusion. I am less of a math person, and more of a logic / oop / visual designer.
anyways with that being said, I would have to say that windows development will probably get you paid more than linux development, but anything can change (except this... heh)
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Krishna
कृष्ण,LOL


Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: encryptor]
#5061387 - 12/14/05 08:35 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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i studied programming 'theory' in a high-school AP comp sci course - we were the last year to use C++ as the language of instruction, they switched to java the next year.
then some years later, was hired by a friend who taught me/helped me learn perl, linux systems administration (networking, apache, mail, mysql, etc), and the mod_perl based API he has been developing. since then i've also re-learned js, out of necessity. i don't really work in anything other than perl, since all the applications we make are web-based. i've found the most important thing is to understand the fundamentals of programming logic - once you have that, it is like understanding the paradigm of communication - then it is just a matter of learning the language.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



Registered: 03/06/02
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: encryptor]
#5061877 - 12/14/05 10:38 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Have you considered self-employment?
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encryptor

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 1,162
Last seen: 20 days, 8 hours
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wow, thanks for the info. I am going to read books on Visual Studio.Net (C++), networking, and System Administration. Thanks for now. peace
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psyka
Praetorian


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: encryptor]
#5073449 - 12/16/05 09:40 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Theres a whole plethora of uses for computers.
It all depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. Artificial Intelligence is going to be real big in about 4 years.
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.

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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Computer Ideas! [Re: psyka]
#5074636 - 12/17/05 09:02 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Artificial Intelligence is going to be real big in about 4 years.
actually, its been real big for the past 20+ years. ever heard of the self-healing minefield? http://www.darpa.mil/ato/programs/SHM/index.htm
http://www.darpa.mil/ is one of the best places to stay on top of 10 year old technology (i saw 10 year old because most of the time, military would not even consider publishing new technology)
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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