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myco contractor
Registered: 09/19/01
Posts: 2,417
Lana, I need help
    #504907 - 12/30/01 02:34 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

My friend has been using your large bags, 41 qt sterilizer, and rye berries. The tek he has been using is boiling the rye for an hour or so just so they are plump and full of water. We then take them and drain off all excess so its just rye berry absorbed fully with water. Next we fill the bags up large with the cooked rye and fold the tops and clothes pin with space between the filter patch and the rye. Then we load 4 large bags into the pressure sterilizers and stack them 2 on the bottom and 2 on the top. We sterilize at 20-25 psi for 1 hour and fifty mins to 2 hours. Then we quickly remove the bags and impulse seal the ends and then just below the clothes pin fold to prevent any airborne contam that could have worked into the bags while removing from the sterilizers to the impulse sealer. Then the bags are allowed to cool. I have noticed the exterior rye is nice and dark while the insides dont seem that way. Does this mean it wasnt sterilie all the way through? Cause after they cool I innoculate with honey water (Im positive that is sterilie cause I have done this many times before). Everything starts great but the bags seem to always produce a large wet spot at the bottom with a brown liquid that looks like rye juice. Once this liquid appears colonization stops and everything goes to shit. Any theories on why this keeps happening? Is a longer sterilization time required or is it because of the fact that I just boil the rye in water and not using a measured amount. If you have any suggestions I really could use them right now. Thank you everyone who takes the time to help with this haunting issue.

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dazed andconfused

Registered: 12/16/01
Posts: 54
Loc: undesirable
Last seen: 14 years, 6 days
Re: Lana, I need help [Re: durban_poison]
    #504943 - 12/30/01 03:01 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Do not pre-boil your rye!!!!....This is a sure bet for disaster..rye is over saturated you must add your own water..no double boiling..GOOD LUCK

"The white man goes into his church house and talks about Jesus;
the indian goes into his tepee and talks to Jesus."

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Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 215
Re: Lana, I need help [Re: durban_poison]
    #505075 - 12/30/01 04:56 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

i always pre-boil my rye, usually about 30-45min till the kernels start to explode, stop as soon as you see any bustin open and drain well

Flying in a Blue Dream

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Head Banana

Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 3,109
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
Re: Lana, I need help [Re: durban_poison]
    #505262 - 12/30/01 08:15 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)


Ok, first off there are many different teks for using rye. AFOAF, well, she never pre-boils rye. She always just steeps the rye for 24 hours so that any endospores can germinate. But thats what shes told me anyways...

Now I think your main issue is the consistancy of the rye after it comes out of the PC.

There can actually be a few things.

When you pull the spawn bags out, they are very hot, VERY HOT. So hot that the water can evaporate within minutes after being taking out of the cooker. Think of it this way, have you ever pulled a hot drinking glass out of the dishwasher. Its wet and has drops of water on it, but its so hot that the water quickly evaporates off of the glass. Now if you keep the glass in the dishwasher to cool for awhile longer, you can pull out the glass and the water won't be as hot, so it won't evaporate as quickly.

That friend of mine I was telling you about, shes had extremely dry rye kernels in some of her jars because the glass is so hot that it dries out the rye, yet the rye in the middle of the jar is still very wet. See where I'm going with this? She usually just shakes the jar/bag up to make a nice mix. You might want to wait a few minutes until you pull the bags out of the PC. You can leave the bags in there for hours, overnight even. Remember, everything that is in that pressure cooker is clean, including the water that you used to create the steam that pasturized your substrate. So don't feel like you have to hurry up and pull the bags out. They'll be fine:)

Like I said, AFOAF doesn't pre-boil, but if she did, I would take MM's advice and let it throughly drain. One of the tricky things about working with rye is its moisture content.

Also (depending on how you colonize your substrate) spawn bags are nice. I know you said you use honey water so I'm assuming that you use a syringe. If you like, after you put the rye in the bags, use your impulse sealer and then cook them. You can easily puncture the bags with your needle then cover the puncture hole with tape. Kind of like in the PF tek but with a plastic bag instead. Some people can't do this, for example people who may use colonized agar wedges or grain transfers. But for liquid inoculations (especially with a needle) you can seal up the bag prior to cooking. Remember, the water in the pressure cooker is used to generate steam, that steam is used to externally pasturize your substrate. I use the word externally becuase the steam isn't suppose to flow through your substrate. If that was the case then your moisture content would always get screwed up!

I hope thats helped a bit, and if anyone else has anymore suggestions, do tell !


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Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 215
Re: Lana, I need help [Re: Lana]
    #505288 - 12/30/01 08:43 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

when pre-boiling rye then pressure cooking theres no need to wait
for endospore germination,
ive done this with about 40lbs of rye to date and never had
any problems with endospores
may be ive been lucky and gotten hold of good rye but know of other users of rye that have come to the same conclusion about p-boil rye and endospores probs

Flying in a Blue Dream

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Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 365
Re: Lana, I need help [Re: durban_poison]
    #505380 - 12/30/01 10:09 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Spawn bags were never meant to be used without a flow hood, especially not the bigger ones. Certain spawn bags are made to be sealed before PCing, the majority arent. When I use liquid cultures on large spawn bags I use at least 20ml and make sure they are dry as hell first, but I'm not using honey water, using isolated strains in eberbach. Or at least a qt of grain. And always let the bags cool in front of the hood.

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Re: Lana, I need help [Re: slither]
    #505824 - 12/31/01 12:03 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Something to think about.....

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