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Vote Libertarian!!

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: federal dollars to fund [Re: isis]
    #504715 - 12/30/01 10:05 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

WOW..am i glad i'm not in this debate..he he


America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 484
Re: federal dollars to fund [Re: Innvertigo]
    #505050 - 12/30/01 04:29 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

I used the word "biggot" because the language you use suggest prejudice. You point out some good points, but the language you use carries with it an underlying hateful tone at times. Do I support the use of money for those particular classes, It depends on what is really going on. If they are just using the money for social gatherings and not truly teaching about the prevention of HIV, then I would not support them. If they are teaching HIV prevention,then I would support them.
The only point Iam trying to make to you is that HIV extends way beyond the gay male homosexual world. Yes, the HIV transmission rate in the US is high among gay males, but that is not the case worlwide. No one in Africa thinks HIV is a gay disease, because the main route of transmission there is straight sex. In Europe the main route of transmission is Intervenous drug use. To simply say let them all die does not solve the problem.Something like 42% og all of the worlds HIV cases are from Male to male sex.That leaves 58% of other causes.How do we determine who we help and who we let die? How do we determine who deserves to die and who doesn't.
Most of the HIV cases I have been involved have been very tragic. In one particular case the mother was sick with Lupus and received a blood transfusion.She did not know it, but she became infected with HIV from a blood transfussion. She became pregnant and passed on the HIV to her beautiful little son.She also gave it to her husband.It wasn't until the little boy became ill that she found out she was the carrier. That entire family was wiped out by the HIV virus.The little boy died first.He was an amazing little man.He died at 5yrs of age. The mother and the father followed. I still think of that little boy often.I wish this was an isoalted story, but I can tell you a number of very similar ones. All of them victims of this dreadful virus.Hemophiliacs,lupus victims all infected by HIV. Woman who have no idea their fucking husbands are cheating on them, end up becomming HIV positive and paying for it with their lives.My mother's best friend married a wonderful man who had a histroy of IV drug use. She didn't know it at the time. She got HIV from him and died. He also died.
Most people feel pity for these people because in their eyes, they are innocent victims of HIV. However, when one carries the attitude the HIV is a gay disease and they should be allowed to die, it slows down the progress made to help all of the victims.Much of the reasearch was delayed in the US because HIV was considered a gay disease. That has only slowed us down in the fight against this illness. I may seem a bit touchy, but it is because I have watched a number of children die fron this disease. I have watched them suffer through the end stages.Suffer because their mother's have died and now they live with grandma.I have seen grandmother's suffer because their daughters are dead.I have seen entire families wiped from the face of the earth. When you watch child die from HIV you relize that HIV has no prejudice. It doesn't care if you are white, black, gay,or straight. Yes, there are tons of gay males dying from HIV, but there are also millions of others dying. To be honest it pisses me off when I hear the " they are fags let them die attitude." Not offended because Iam gay, but because I have seen first hand the suffering and devastation HIV creates. None of these families asked to be devasted.
In my world, HIV is a pediatric disease.

Here are the main routes of transmission of each country:
Sub Saharan Africa - Heterosexual sex
North Africa and the middle east- Heterosexual sex
South and South East Asia- IDU, Heterosexual
East Asia and Pacific Late - IDU, Hetero, MSM
Latin America- MSM, IDU, Hetero
Caribbean Late -hetero, MSM
Eastern Europe & Central Asia - IDU
Western Europe - MSM, IDU
North America MSM, IDU, Hetero
Australia and New Zealand - MSM

Edited by isis (12/30/01 05:11 PM)

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Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 280
Re: federal dollars to fund [Re: isis]
    #505132 - 12/30/01 06:16 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Please tell me where I said it was a homosexual disease, I'd love to know since I don't consider it to be a homosexual disease. Are you therefore telling me that the majority of these men and women who are engaging in unprotected sex and passing needles around in developed nations are unaware of the dangers in these activities? How could you be unaware anymore with the amount of attention given this problem by media? It is not nearly as bad as the plague since you generally have to place yourself in a dangerous position to get HIV(and this is generally known), where as the plague spread to anyone no matter what they did since there was no knowledge at the time as to how it was spread.

Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell

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Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 484
Re: federal dollars to fund [Re: MokshaMan]
    #505187 - 12/30/01 07:13 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

You never said that. Sorry MokshaMan, I was talking to Rail_gun. I wasn't really responding to you.
Yeah, I agree people do stupid stuff. I can't judge though. Iam personally guilty of having unprotected sex when I was young and stupid. Thank god, I was lucky. I consider myself well educated. Still, even with all the education, I have been careless. As Iam sure many others have also.All it takes is having unprotected sex once with the wrong person and you are screwed.I'm sure some of you have never had unprotected sex.For the most part though, I would bet at one point or another most of us have had unprotected sex at least once in our lifes.
In developed countries people should know by now. In many underdeveloped countries many people do not know.Religious views often keep people from openly discussing the causes of HIV and how to prevent it. The use of condoms is frowned upon in some circles.
The fact remains though that we are facing a pandemic of great proportions. Different from the plague, but just as destructive. Iam saying this from a public health perspective. We can only be thankful that HIV is not an airborn pathogen or we would be in trouble.
We can say to the victims,it is your fault you are sick, but where does that get us. You still have to deal with the issues. The epidemic still has to be addressed. HIV is a disease that is wiping out entire generations.
I don't disagree with you MokshaMan. Many people get HIV because they were careless.Just like people get cancer from smoking. I think it is stupid to smoke.Every knows that it can cause cancer. Yet, people still freaking smoke. Why do they smoke? It is all over the media that smoking causes cancer. Everyone knows. I realize the smoker caused his own cancer, but i do not pass moral judgement on him. Nor do I tell him he deserves to suffer his fate.
Iam not saying that people are not responsible for their actions. Iam not saying that people that engage in high risk activities are not aware of the danger. What Iam saying is that regarless of what each of our individaul views maybe, HIV is still a public health threat throughout world. It threatens all groups of people regarless of race or sexual orientation.I'm a medical professional. It threatens me and millions of others every time we go in to work.I for one would love for a vaccine to be developed.

Ps: You would be surprised how little some people know about HIV. There are still many that hold on to myths instead of truth.

Edited by isis (12/30/01 08:05 PM)

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Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: federal dollars to fund [Re: isis]
    #514313 - 01/08/02 11:47 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

I am also against the government funding perversion. I can fund my own perversion quite nicely, thank you.

Nobody 'deserves' to get aids or any disease, but it is generally contracted through their own actions. I have some good friends who got aids through amazingly stupid behavior.

BTW, most BDSM is pretty safe sex. Nobody ever got a virus off of a riding crop ;)

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