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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Deviate]
    #5023913 - 12/06/05 02:32 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Swami said:
I suggest we start a "Get Ped Laid Fund" and buy/rent him a hooker for his birthday.  :grin:

PM me for where to send donations.




am i the only one who is incredibly turned off by hookers?




what do you mean by hookers? the ones you give a crack rock to, or the ones you give a finger rock to?

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #5023953 - 12/06/05 02:41 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
I think I am too socialized to be a succesfull celibate person. No thing in itself will provide happiness, but I know that if I don't eat or drink water I feel like crap. It takes a very strong mind and deep contentment to be happy while denying your bodily and emotional impulses.

I feel like it is kind of overblown in our society and people make the whole thing unessesarily complicated, but it certainly does FEEL like a necessity to me. Maybe if I get involved with a few hundred hedonistic orgies I'll get bored and it won't matter anymore, but right now being celibate sucks.




i believe we all must learn to deny our impulses because if, for instance, i followed every biological impulse i would try to have sex with every girl i found attractive. obviously to get along in society we must learn to not always do what feels the most good biologically, otherwirse id never have made it out of bed this morning. my point is that i think happiness lies more in our ability to control or not be bothered by our impulses rather than in the satisfaction of every impulse. for example you can't have sex every time you see an attractive member of the opposite sex, you can't sleep late every morning, you can't not do your homework every night, etc but you can still learn to be happy. you're never going to be able to satisfy every impulse so if that's what your happiness depends on youre never going to acheive complete happiness.

i am not currently having sex with anyone or even masturbating and yet i am happy, so it is certainly not a necessity. it is only a necessity for you because you have set it up as a condition for your happiness and refuse to allow yourself to be happy without it. if you let go of these ideas i believe you would see it is not a necessity for you either. it is much different from eating or drinking which are much more important in my opinion.

Edited by Deviate (12/06/05 02:45 PM)

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5023960 - 12/06/05 02:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Swami said:
I suggest we start a "Get Ped Laid Fund" and buy/rent him a hooker for his birthday.  :grin:

PM me for where to send donations.




am i the only one who is incredibly turned off by hookers?




what do you mean by hookers? the ones you give a crack rock to, or the ones you give a finger rock to?




umm, crack i guess?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Deviate]
    #5023989 - 12/06/05 02:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Solutarch said:
Sorry for the confusion, but I did not mean to imply that masturbation in and of itself is spiritual (as most people conceive of the term), that sentence came after the part about sex being good for your prostate. Then again, I do find that all existence has aspects of the spiritual in it, the spirit resides and is manifest in the material. The material/spiritual dichotomy is an artifact of our mode of thinking, of the human tendency to atomize and classify concepts to facilitate understanding. In my view, the material and spiritual are only separate conceptually. Sex can be an intensely spiritual experience with the right person and/or the right conditions. Sometimes, masturbation is better than sex with the wrong person and/or the wrong conditions with the right person.





i agree that everything is spiritual and the dichotomy is in the mind but what i am saying is that while sex can be an intensely connecting experience (meaning it helps us to transcend this mental dichotomy) i have not found this to be so with masturbation. i consider sex and masturbation to be seperate things and not equal to eachother.




Most people know nothing about tantric masturbation and so cannot say if it is spiritual or not. It is part of the tantric path though. No fantasies needed, just connection to the self. (So I hear from my partner).


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflinePed
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Solutarch]
    #5023992 - 12/06/05 02:51 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

>> What? My point is that sex is enjoyable, and there is no reason to stop having it. It does not interfere with one's spiritual growth. If it does, it is the fault of the individual, it is not the act of sex.

Some people understand spirituality differently than others. For some, the sexual act and pursuit of it can be an obstruction to their spiritual growth. There is nothing unnatural or faulty about this.


>> It is not sexual contact that obstructs us in our efforts, this is placing the blame on a perfectly natural act which is a gift that is part and parcel of creation.

No one is arguing that sex is not a perfectly natural act which, because of it's benefits, can be conceived of as an experiential "gift". The argument here is whether or not a person who turns down that gift for the sake of opening themselves to other spiritual benefits is making a mistake.


>> There is no conflict between the material and spiritual except that which you choose to believe as a limiting concept and to maintain in your own mind.

No one has suggested that the material and spiritual aspects of life are fundamentally exclusive to each other. No one has suggested that we should abandon one for the other.

For some people, the aim of celibacy is an effort to stabilize and balance their mind. When we develop sexual desire for another being and wish to copulate with them, we have apprehended reality in a way that draws distinctions between one being and another. In particular, we have conceived of one being as desirable to the exclusion of other beings who are also sexually compatiable with ourself. Those who wish to develop a more equanimical perspective may wish to abstain from sexual contact for the sake of developing a completely impartial view of other living beings. This is a kind of spiritual growth that is very beneficial. There is no error in this pursuit unless one equates their health and happiness -- be it spiritual or material health and happiness -- with their sexual prolificacy. Since no such relationship between happiness and sexual output actually exists, there is no mistake in abandoning sex for the sake of certain spiritual objectives.

I am challenging the widespread assumption that a person who chooses celibacy is inherently mistaken in their judgement. It is a fundamentalist attitude which serves no benefit.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Ped]
    #5024046 - 12/06/05 03:05 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Each person is free to choose or not choose to do anything they want and will learn the lessons that their choices bring. Even if the lessons are different then they imagined. Such is life. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Icelander]
    #5024065 - 12/06/05 03:11 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

As I lock the front door, switch off the lights, brush my teeth, comb my hair, I find that these mundane actions are infused with my excitement and anticipation of my evening meditation.

I can already sense the movement of energy at the base of my spine.
I pull my dress off over my head, the fabric's texture fully experienced by my sensitized skin. A cool breeze lifts the curtains near my bed, and strokes its silky hand along my bare skin.

I lay down on my stomach across my queen sized bed, enjoying the sensation of pressure along the front of my body. My hands stroke the smooth sheets as I snuggle into the soft mattress. My heart is pounding in my chest and in my ears. My right hand moves between my legs to caress my yoni.

The sensation of movement is electric, and my body moves as though shocked. The tiny bolts of lightning radiate outward and upward, vitalizing my inner thighs, my belly, my breasts.

I relax into the energy, breathing in slow and deep...I visualize myself being held in a lover's arms, carried safely to another place.

The breath moves energy up my spine, with a sensation of flowing warmth. Behind my closed eyelids I see a white-gold glow spreading up my body, and I can feel the progression with each deep breath.
Each time tension takes hold, I breathe into it and relax, allowing the energy to circulate.

Finally, finally, energy rushes into my head and bursts through my scalp. I release a held breath with a loud moan, and feel the orgasm take my body. The pleasure is not centered around my genitals, but flowing throughout my entire body.

My muscles helplessly contract and relax, and electric pulses surge through my body. A deep relaxation resolves the orgasm, and each deep breath I take fills my chest with pleasure and warmth.

The sexual experiences I have during my Tantric meditations are some of the most intense of my life. I have had more intense Tantric orgasms during sex, including one very memorable experience of my energetic "core" expanding until my known self was reduced to a thin layer containing the energy.

IMO sex/masturbation is not spiritual in and of itself, but it is a useful method for raising energy. Once you are in touch with spiritual energy, it is possible to experience orgasms without physical contact. (AMAZING!) This seems to be the direction my Tantra practice is heading, and I am regularly astonished at my experiences.

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Deviate]
    #5024066 - 12/06/05 03:12 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Swami said:
I suggest we start a "Get Ped Laid Fund" and buy/rent him a hooker for his birthday.  :grin:

PM me for where to send donations.




am i the only one who is incredibly turned off by hookers?




what do you mean by hookers? the ones you give a crack rock to, or the ones you give a finger rock to?




umm, crack i guess?




so, your only turned off by the hookers that want Cash On Delivery, and not the ones who hold out for the diamonds and half of your shit.

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5024102 - 12/06/05 03:21 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Swami said:
I suggest we start a "Get Ped Laid Fund" and buy/rent him a hooker for his birthday.  :grin:

PM me for where to send donations.




am i the only one who is incredibly turned off by hookers?




what do you mean by hookers? the ones you give a crack rock to, or the ones you give a finger rock to?




umm, crack i guess?




so, your only turned off by the hookers that want Cash On Delivery, and not the ones who hold out for the diamonds and half of your shit.





at least they have less STDs.

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Deviate]
    #5024107 - 12/06/05 03:23 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

not in nevada.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Ped]
    #5024190 - 12/06/05 03:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

For some people, the aim of celibacy is an effort to stabilize and balance their mind.

It works well in the Roman Catholic Church...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Swami]
    #5024193 - 12/06/05 03:44 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

BTW, notice the happiness that I am bringing to the ladies in my picture.  :wink:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflinePed
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Swami]
    #5024216 - 12/06/05 03:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

>> It works well in the Roman Catholic Church...

That is not a fair example, Pep?. The Romach Catholic church is heavily impeded by political and hierarchical concerns. Such concerns are worldly by their nature and drain the spiritual potential from religious practice. It is no surprise to me that sex scandals exist in the Catholic Church. Catholicism is a school of religious thought which is rapidly degenerating; it is parting company with God and all things spiritual. The abusive and inappropriate behavior of ordained Catholics is not intrinsically related to their vow of celibacy.

Although they may be experiencing enjoyment in the present moment, the ladies in your picture will eventually have to undergo experiences of suffering in the future. The happiness you're offering them gives them no protection from future suffering, in that it does not lead them to a state of lasting contentment and peace. As such, it cannot be said that you are offering them true happiness, merely that you are giving them pleasure.

Although I must admit that for a skunk, you're pretty damn sexy.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

Edited by Ped (12/06/05 03:57 PM)

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Swami]
    #5024289 - 12/06/05 04:08 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
BTW, notice the happiness that I am bringing to the ladies in my picture.  :wink:




i thought that was the wine and that they were laughing at what is under the hat.... :crazy2:

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Ped]
    #5024419 - 12/06/05 04:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

IMO no one can "give" you happiness or pleasure.

Others provide us with input, and it is up to us to determine our response.  Whether that response is negative or positive has more to do with our attitude than any intrinsic quality of the input.  Some types of input are more likely to receive a positive or negative response, but that response is not assured by the input.

As to whether the response is "lasting" or "impermanent"--there are no lasting responses to experience.  Everything changes.  Neither hedonistic pleasure nor monk-like abstention will produce a permanent response to experience.  Even the most centered person can only hope to create a lasting intention for their responses.  :peace:

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OfflineSolutarch
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Ped]
    #5024475 - 12/06/05 04:39 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
No one has suggested that the material and spiritual aspects of life are fundamentally exclusive to each other. No one has suggested that we should abandon one for the other.



But it has been suggested that celibacy is needed for spiritual growth.

Quote:

When we develop sexual desire for another being and wish to copulate with them, we have apprehended reality in a way that draws distinctions between one being and another.



So? Maybe you should learn to accept reality.

Quote:

In particular, we have conceived of one being as desirable to the exclusion of other beings who are also sexually compatiable with ourself.



We? It is a mistake to assume that your view and your attitudes are shared by everyone, they are not. To conceive of others being desirable does not mean that a person is excluding anyone else, though this may be the way you are wired.

Quote:

Those who wish to develop a more equanimical perspective may wish to abstain from sexual contact for the sake of developing a completely impartial view of other living beings.



Equanimical? As in composed, an evenness of mind? Complete impartiality is a chimera, by virtue of existence within the universe we all have our own views. I found it useful to first learn to resign myself to reality, accepting the vast differences in gifts, situations and burdens that all beings have as their own.

Quote:

This is a kind of spiritual growth that is very beneficial.



Debatable. Perhaps what you are really concerned with is freeing yourself from emotional attachments with those you would have sex with. It is possible for some of us to love others without jealousy, and to love more than one person. Though it may be difficult for you it is by no means necessary for everyone who desires spiritual growth. Later along your path, you may be able to leave behind such things and can have both a continuing spiritual journey and sex.

Quote:

Since no such relationship between happiness and sexual output actually exists,



How do you presume to speak for everyone? There are indeed individuals who experience genuine happiness from a healthy and active sex life.

Quote:

there is no mistake in abandoning sex for the sake of certain spiritual objectives.



There may be if you're wrong.

Quote:

I am challenging the widespread assumption that a person who chooses celibacy is inherently mistaken in their judgement. It is a fundamentalist attitude which serves no benefit.



Sort of like the fundamentalist attitude and questionable assumption that choosing celibacy helps one grow spiritually?


--------------------

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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Veritas]
    #5024493 - 12/06/05 04:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The thing about sex is that to some people it is confirmation that the hold a desired personage. people want them and are excited to share something creative with them. The biological implications are in mine mind very clear. Sex is and was designed as a way to perpetuate cells. If someone wants to attach their half a a dna strucutre to yours, it seems they might be saying that they are confortable with the idea that your half will help their half make it confortably in the world, whatever that confort is. It could be a nobel prize or fedutiary success. It seems wrong to imply that sex isn't healty. to some it is. Also there is a study that people who nut three times or more a week have a 72% higher chance of not dieing from heart disease. I was well pleased to see this!!!!


--------------------
Asshole

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: Ped]
    #5024553 - 12/06/05 04:52 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
But none of this is true at all. There is very clear and considerable gap between a human beings and the next most similar species.




Less than half a percent doesn't seem like a considerable gap.

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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5024573 - 12/06/05 04:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

.4% I animal, nasty harry stupid ass animal. Sex is so nice. Do people really mean to be celibate. Is is a preemptive measure taking for those who cant get laid. I mean I bet celibate folks still think about sex as often as though who do fuck. I can't imagine true disinterest in sex.. I have some friends who arefor lack of better word asexual, I don't mean physically but haven't been laid in long time, still they must think about the beauty and joys of sex. Please some tell me about your experience with celibacy cause I will never ever be celibate.

thanks


--------------------
Asshole

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Offlinerwilber
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Re: Sex & Your Wellbeing: Not Intrinsic to Eachother [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #5024596 - 12/06/05 05:05 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

nothing like a well done steak... medium rare


--------------------

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