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OfflineFirestarr357
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what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? * 1
    #5019764 - 12/05/05 08:18 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Just wondering if any one knows at what temperature does Psilocybin start to break down ? Also for how long can it take the heat? I am wondering because I have a food dehydrator with a Temperature knob that goes from 95F to 155f, I just want to make it as efficient as possible at drying my shrooms in the least amount of time with no to very very little potency loss. Thx for your input guy's  :cool:

Edited by Firestarr357 (12/05/05 08:20 PM)

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OfflineRamuh
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Firestarr357] * 1
    #5019796 - 12/05/05 08:24 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I keep mine on 95 just to be safe. There usually isn't that drastic of a need to dry my mushrooms as fast as possible anyway, so I figure might as well be safe.

As for the exact numbers, I don't know, and I'm not sure if anyone knows for sure. Try to keep it below 140ish or so and I think you should be fine without a doubt.


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Invisiblemusher_420
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Ramuh] * 1
    #5019810 - 12/05/05 08:26 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I have been told that temps 100-200 degrees wont effect potency. I personally dry at 140 because my dehydrator only had one setting. I find that potency isn't effected that much but they mushrooms just don't dry as nicely under that much heat. They do dry quickly however.


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Offlinejohnjohnandjamal
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: musher_420] * 1
    #5022344 - 12/06/05 08:23 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

There was some testing done a while back. It was shown that quality began to degrade when dried just above 162F (I believe it was 162.5F). I personally have dried shrooms at the 175-180F range and had them destroyed. I've also dried at 150F in the oven and they are fantastic!

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Offlinethenewguy05
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: johnjohnandjamal] * 1
    #5022496 - 12/06/05 09:29 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)


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OfflineFirestarr357
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: thenewguy05] * 1
    #5025132 - 12/06/05 06:59 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Fantastic after reading your replies ,linking threads, and http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info7.shtml

I have seen that most as in about 90% - 95% of the cases they only lose psilocin, a Great benefit of fresh shrooms, but is lost fast after the shroom dies/dries. However the Psilocybin is left for the most part very intact leaving the shroom still very potent, also however I am guessing and based On what I have gathered from this that some shrooms can take higher heat then others, I think this must have allot to do with where the shrooms are found in the world, because like anything they are adapted to there normal climate. Thanks guy's for help/links/time and I would love more replies.

I am ganna smoke a bowl and keep an eye on this. :smile:

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Offlinelysander
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Firestarr357] * 2
    #27754869 - 04/28/22 10:11 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Just found this peer-reviewed paper on Stability of psilocybin published in 2020.

Key observations:

Section 3.2: Psilocybin degrades with increasing heat, but doesn't markedly break down below 125C (250F).

Section 3.7: What really destroys psilocybin is time: regardless of storage temperature, its content in dried powdered mushrooms has a half life of only 1 month!

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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Firestarr357] * 1
    #27754884 - 04/28/22 10:20 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

:oldthread:

A dehydrator on any heat won't affect potency.

Edited by nooneman (04/28/22 10:20 AM)

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Offlinelysander
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: lysander] * 1
    #27754885 - 04/28/22 10:20 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Full paper citation:

Gotvaldová K, Hájková K, Borovicˇka J, Jurok R, Cihlářová P, Kuchař M. Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis. Drug Test Anal. 2021;13:439–446. https://doi.org/10.1002/dta.2950

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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: lysander] * 2
    #27754920 - 04/28/22 10:53 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Heh, drug test anal


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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: sandman420] * 1
    #27754925 - 04/28/22 10:56 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Is this what the cool kids are doing these days?:laugh2:

edit: so it's the test, now it's even weirder

Edited by dyel (04/28/22 10:58 AM)

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OfflineForresterM
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: lysander] * 2
    #27754944 - 04/28/22 11:07 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lysander said:
Section 3.7: What really destroys psilocybin is time: regardless of storage temperature, its content in dried powdered mushrooms has a half life of only 1 month!




That's why we don't store them powdered.

And it's not time that degrades it's oxygen.


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Offlinechris77
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #27755229 - 04/28/22 02:45 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

lysander said:
Section 3.7: What really destroys psilocybin is time: regardless of storage temperature, its content in dried powdered mushrooms has a half life of only 1 month!




That's why we don't store them powdered.

And it's not time that degrades it's oxygen.



would this hold true for powdered and immediately frozen?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: chris77] * 1
    #27755324 - 04/28/22 04:17 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

chris77 said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

lysander said:
Section 3.7: What really destroys psilocybin is time: regardless of storage temperature, its content in dried powdered mushrooms has a half life of only 1 month!




That's why we don't store them powdered.

And it's not time that degrades it's oxygen.



would this hold true for powdered and immediately frozen?




Since we know that temperature has almost nothing to do with it, I don't see why freezing would help. 

Purging the container of oxygen with an inert gas might do the trick, but why the hell would you do that when you can just not powder until ready to use?


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Offlinechris77
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #27755354 - 04/28/22 04:44 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

it just happened, no hell involved, i put far more in the grinder than needed without giving it much thought. just wondering if deep freezing would help keeping the actives intact.
maybe better to put the powder in honey or other?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: chris77] * 1
    #27756208 - 04/29/22 07:23 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Anything to keep the oxygen out, honey should work just might be difficult to dose. You could boil into a tea and freeze the tea into ice cubes. But just freezing the powder won't protect it from oxidation.


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Offlinechris77
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #27756232 - 04/29/22 07:48 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Anything to keep the oxygen out, honey should work just might be difficult to dose. You could boil into a tea and freeze the tea into ice cubes. But just freezing the powder won't protect it from oxidation.



tx, yes that makes sense. was just wondering, as some info here on putting powder in gelatin capsules states that they can be stored for years in a freezer, but only for a month or so at room temp without loss.
so one would think that some people think that temp does play a part. anyways, the idea of ice cubes is tempting. just have to take care in labeling it. otherwise might be some unpredictable cocktail parties in summer :wink:


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #27756253 - 04/29/22 08:05 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Anything to keep the oxygen out, honey should work just might be difficult to dose. You could boil into a tea and freeze the tea into ice cubes. But just freezing the powder won't protect it from oxidation.



Capsules should do the trick, right? Those are air tight AFAIK.


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Offlinechris77
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: SirPsycho] * 1
    #27756270 - 04/29/22 08:30 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
Anything to keep the oxygen out, honey should work just might be difficult to dose. You could boil into a tea and freeze the tea into ice cubes. But just freezing the powder won't protect it from oxidation.



Capsules should do the trick, right? Those are air tight AFAIK.



"airtight" yes, but there must be some gas exchange, and some air inside and between the grains of powder etc. theres no vacuum


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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: chris77] * 1
    #27756407 - 04/29/22 10:42 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

People report mixed results with how long capsules hold up, but they don't get rid of the oxygen already inside when you make em


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OfflineGDorn
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #27842410 - 06/29/22 01:44 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Capsules should do the trick, right? Those are air tight AFAIK.




The paper says they stored the samples in ziplock bags.  Those are also "air tight" the same way that capsules are, which is to say diffusion still happens.

Temperature doesn't matter, and over a long enough period oxygen will diffuse through just about anything.  The best option, if you've already powdered them, is to vacuum-seal the powder in a thick vacuum bag, with an oxygen absorber packet and a desiccant packet in the bag.  Then put the bag in a cool, dry, dark place and don't disturb it.

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Offlinebullethead454
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: GDorn]
    #28666664 - 02/19/24 10:15 AM (10 months, 22 days ago)

I didn't read all of this, but it's an interesting study on psilocybin and its levels with different methods (e.g. fresh, dried, and powdered). It looks like they're claiming psilocybin is most concentrated in the caps, and is recorded in higher percentages when mushrooms are dried at room temperature in a dark setting.

https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/PREVENTIONWELLNESS/Documents/Stability%20of%20Psilocybin%20and%20Analogs.pdf

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OfflineScrewup
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: bullethead454]
    #28666700 - 02/19/24 11:08 AM (10 months, 22 days ago)

18 year old thread. Good job damnit.


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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: bullethead454]
    #28666828 - 02/19/24 12:25 PM (10 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

bullethead454 said:
I didn't read all of this, but it's an interesting study on psilocybin and its levels with different methods (e.g. fresh, dried, and powdered). It looks like they're claiming psilocybin is most concentrated in the caps, and is recorded in higher percentages when mushrooms are dried at room temperature in a dark setting.

https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/PREVENTIONWELLNESS/Documents/Stability%20of%20Psilocybin%20and%20Analogs.pdf



i clicked this link but nothing happened for me


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OfflineYahra
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: chris77]
    #28666890 - 02/19/24 01:19 PM (10 months, 22 days ago)

Except that you IP address has been logged by Oregonean government.

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Offlinechris77
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Yahra]
    #28667012 - 02/19/24 02:50 PM (10 months, 22 days ago)

why would somebody post a link like that??


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Offlinebullethead454
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Screwup]
    #28667867 - 02/20/24 08:47 AM (10 months, 21 days ago)

The last reply I saw was in 2022. So, even if it started a long time ago, there was "recent" activity.

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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: bullethead454]
    #28667873 - 02/20/24 08:51 AM (10 months, 21 days ago)

We have seen that article before and multiple members proved the information was skewed at best.

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Offlinebullethead454
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: chris77]
    #28667875 - 02/20/24 08:52 AM (10 months, 21 days ago)
Log in to view attachment

I tried clicking the link, and it added some extra string to the URL.

The actual URL is as it looks in the link "https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/PREVENTIONWELLNESS/Documents/Stability%20of%20Psilocybin%20and%20Analogs.pdf"

However, when I click the link on here for some reason it's adding "https://www.mind-media.com/go.php?" to the beginning of the URL; you can just remove it to find the document, or I can download it and post it here, but I feel like that's not a good idea either.

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Offlinebullethead454
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #28667880 - 02/20/24 08:54 AM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

DERRAYLD said:
We have seen that article before and multiple members proved the information was skewed at best.




Even  more reason for me not to even post on this forum. I always get berated for my genuine effort to be helpful or get useful information.

Getting information on here is like pulling teeth.

Edited by bullethead454 (02/20/24 08:56 AM)

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Offlinebullethead454
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Yahra]
    #28667892 - 02/20/24 08:59 AM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Yahra said:
Except that you IP address has been logged by Oregonean government.




I assume you don't use a VPN when accessing information about this type of stuff. It wouldn't matter if they had your IP or not, it would be irrelevant.

However, that leaves me to assume that you access this site without a VPN, which means whoever has access to the logs here could do the same.

Edited by bullethead454 (02/20/24 09:01 AM)

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Offlinebullethead454
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: Screwup]
    #28667906 - 02/20/24 09:12 AM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Screwup said:
18 year old thread. Good job damnit.




I tend to think that using existing threads is better than creating a bunch of new ones. You'd complain about that too.

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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: bullethead454] * 1
    #28667910 - 02/20/24 09:14 AM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

bullethead454 said:
Quote:

DERRAYLD said:
We have seen that article before and multiple members proved the information was skewed at best.




Even  more reason for me not to even post on this forum. I always get berated for my genuine effort to be helpful or get useful information.

Getting information on here is like pulling teeth.




I'm not sure what the issue was with my statement, do you want me to go find the thread for you?

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Offlinebullethead454
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #28667960 - 02/20/24 10:01 AM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

DERRAYLD said:
Quote:

bullethead454 said:
Quote:

DERRAYLD said:
We have seen that article before and multiple members proved the information was skewed at best.




Even  more reason for me not to even post on this forum. I always get berated for my genuine effort to be helpful or get useful information.

Getting information on here is like pulling teeth.




I'm not sure what the issue was with my statement, do you want me to go find the thread for you?




I appreciate your response about the article and letting me know it is not completely accurate, but I thought you could have provided information or threads that supported the counterargument. You don't have to do anything. I can just keep scouring the forum and Internet.

My main goal was just to figure out how to best dry mushrooms, and I already know most people here would say dehydrator. I haven't gotten one yet, because I'm in-between grows and the yield I got from the current/last grow wasn't enough to justify the purchase right now.

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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: bullethead454]
    #28667967 - 02/20/24 10:06 AM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Dehydrators are perfect for drying, hot and fast.
I've dried in dark rooms with fans and moisture removers, it's never going to achieve the correct drying and you'll end up with soft mushrooms.

Drying is one of the more important aspects of mushrooms.

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Offlinebullethead454
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #28668009 - 02/20/24 10:50 AM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

DERRAYLD said:
Dehydrators are perfect for drying, hot and fast.
I've dried in dark rooms with fans and moisture removers, it's never going to achieve the correct drying and you'll end up with soft mushrooms.

Drying is one of the more important aspects of mushrooms.





Right now I'm using hot air and a heat lamp, and they're getting "cracker dry" within a day usually. The temp is around 100F combined.

My oven goes to 170F lowest, and I didn't want to risk it. Although, I think someone said just leave the oven vented and point a fan into the oven to blow air around. Would the convection option that uses a fan be similar? How long should I dry them for, roughly, in the oven?

Edited by bullethead454 (02/20/24 11:01 AM)

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OfflineSonomaFungi_707
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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: bullethead454]
    #28668078 - 02/20/24 11:56 AM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Generally speaking (and within reason), chemical reactions happen faster in warmer conditions and slower in colder conditions. Even if we accept that degradation is primarily  result of oxydation… Oxydation is a chemical reaction, and like most chemical reactions, the kinetics depend on temperature.

Maybe the effect of temperature is so minor that it’s not worth worrying about, but I still suspect that a sample stored with minimal moisture and minimal oxygen exposure PLUS cold temperature would likely last longer than one stored in the same container at ambient temp.

Just some food for thought - not trying to fan the flames or anything.

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Re: what temperature does Psilocybin break down ? [Re: SonomaFungi_707]
    #28668090 - 02/20/24 12:07 PM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

SonomaFungi_707 said:
Generally speaking (and within reason), chemical reactions happen faster in warmer conditions and slower in colder conditions. Even if we accept that degradation is primarily  result of oxydation… Oxydation is a chemical reaction, and like most chemical reactions, the kinetics depend on temperature.

Maybe the effect of temperature is so minor that it’s not worth worrying about, but I still suspect that a sample stored with minimal moisture and minimal oxygen exposure PLUS cold temperature would likely last longer than one stored in the same container at ambient temp.

Just some food for thought - not trying to fan the flames or anything.




I mean, that makes sense since cellular metabolism slows the colder it gets. Maybe that's why they keep hospitals colder than normal, but I see your point.

When it comes to oxygen exposure, I worry that since I have a fan on them that I'm degrading them terribly. Does that mean that when storing them they should be in airtight containers/bags and out of warmer temps?

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