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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Hugo Chavez appears to have widespread support [Re: Redstorm]
    #5038645 - 12/09/05 11:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think feeding, sheltering, providing health care and improving the quality of life for it's population gives a government an awful lot of legitimacy.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Hugo Chavez appears to have widespread support [Re: Alex213]
    #5038715 - 12/09/05 12:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"The new National Assembly (AN) to be inaugurated next January with total dominance of government followers will take steps for President Hugo Ch?vez to rule until 2030"

What a form of government! (a dictatorship is 'for the people') :rofl2:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Hugo Chavez appears to have widespread support [Re: Alex213]
    #5039222 - 12/09/05 02:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
I think feeding, sheltering, providing health care and improving the quality of life for it's population gives a government an awful lot of legitimacy.




I agree, but having your legislature increase your term limit without the consent of the citizens takes away an awfully large amount of legitimacy.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Hugo Chavez appears to have widespread support [Re: Redstorm]
    #5040889 - 12/09/05 08:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

True however Charles Degualle did this in France yet he's regarded as a hero.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Hugo Chavez appears to have widespread support [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #5041122 - 12/09/05 09:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

and didn't Ceasar do it?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblebukkake
LEFT WING NUT
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Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,750
Loc: Classified
Re: Hugo Chavez appears to have widespread support [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5042796 - 12/10/05 04:16 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

As determined by whom? Who did those polls? What was the methodology?



I don't know. Propaganda websites like CNN, Fox News, the BBC, and CBC often run polls and those figures are the results that happen to turn up on both their broadcasts and websites.

I will believe the "Chavez ruling until 2030" when I read it on Fox News. I will acknowledge it as as complete bullshit until I see Fox News have it on the front page of their website for at least a week, which they would be sure to do if it were credible.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Hugo Chavez appears to have widespread support [Re: bukkake]
    #5043558 - 12/10/05 12:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm struggling to find any decent news sources that have run the "president till 2030" story.

Looks like there's a little going on behind the scenes:

Democracy under threat

Ch?vez will only gain from the US-backed opposition's ploy to undermine elections

Richard Gott
Tuesday December 6, 2005
The Guardian


The people of Venezuela have gone to the polls 11 times in seven years. Almost a superfluity of democracy, some might think, and signs of electoral fatigue could be detected in Sunday's elections for the National Assembly when only 30% of the electorate bothered to vote. The rest perceived the result as a foregone conclusion since in earlier elections President Hugo Ch?vez, or the candidates he backed, had stacked up substantial majorities. Sunday's poll followed the trend, and the Ch?vez list wiped the board.

This time, however, the once vocal opposition was strangely absent. Four of the small opposition parties decided to withdraw at the last minute, in a cynical manoeuvre designed to upset the hard-won stability achieved since the recall referendum in August 2004 (engineered by the opposition to try to secure the president's resignation). Handsomely won by Ch?vez with a margin of 59 to 41, the referendum was certified as free and fair by observers from the Organisation of American States (OAS) and the Carter Centre, but some of the opposition parties refused to accept the result. Their rejection did little to enhance their authority or popularity and when they withdrew from Sunday's poll they knew that they faced defeat and humiliation

Their action irritated the mission sent by the OAS which believed it had negotiated a settlement over opposition complaints about the new automated voting system. The opposition then turned turtle and announced its withdrawal. It was not acting alone. In the background, at private meetings on the island of Aruba in the Dutch Antilles and in public declarations by Thomas Shannon, the US secretary of state for Latin American affairs, the opposition had been elaborating a strategy to overthrow Ch?vez. Its plan was to make people believe that "democracy in Venezuela is in grave peril", as Shannon put it to a Washington subcommittee two weeks ago.

It is indeed in peril, threatened by a tiny ragbag of opposition groups given disproportionate international influence through the support of the US. By their irresponsible electoral abstention, they hoped to undermine the credibility of the parliamentary system.

The US-backed strategy is to use apparently neutral non-governmental organisations to tell the world that the elections are not free and fair, that press freedom is under threat, and that human rights are not respected. These allegations are then exaggerated and amplified in Washington.
The complaints are nonsense. The opposition still owns most of the newspapers and television stations. The judiciary has been comprehensively reformed after the scandals of the previous decade when half the judges were found to be corrupt or incompetent. Elections have been endlessly vetted and human rights have been extended to the great mass of the people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1658890,00.html


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