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Offlinepsychedelix
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anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery)
    #5012391 - 12/03/05 11:39 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I dunno about anyone in here, but last night tripping on 2g amazonians in lemon juice, I went into a realm where I saw like a fractal that I am positive for some reason was the source/God.  But then I saw I was on the outer edge of the source, at the edge of this expanding fractal.  The fractal was a cross in the middle and still repeating cross at the edge, where I was, and I have no clue what was when, before or after, but I saw a figure, a lifeform move quickly(the way it moved was unpredictable, a mind of it's own, tripping me the fuck out) one way to another in the void, the outer edge of the fractal.  The face showed itself as a demonic looking, very evil feeling, a face with many faces.  All I felt after that was... am I seeing what I am seeing a deception, or a part of a real vision?
  What I was seeing in both extremes was truly  a question to everything I believe, and I went to myself "what the fuck" and it snapped away to a contrasted point of view.  The feeling inside me sparked an idea that the world is both, good and evil, and if you are looking at it from a total good point or evil point it's a deception.  The greatest mystery in this vision was in perfect balance between the two, that was out of my reach at this time.  I have never seen or felt something so captivating and devine.  I am convinced the mushroom is a powerful psychedelic to the right mind.  Letting the mushroom drive me felt like a guiding hand in this world of geometry in spiritual connection, hard to explain, and far from bs, mushrooms are magic.
  I say mushrooms can go very far with a smaller dose than one might disregard as being enough.  I have taken 5 grams before on an empty stomach and I've tripped harder, except I would have never ventured like I did last night.  Truly mind boggling :psychsplit:


Example of where I felt I resided within the fractal of source (arrow)


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: psychedelix]
    #5012422 - 12/03/05 11:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with your opinion about dose.
Once your knowledge of science meets up with the ever present fractal imagery. It is very much like what your talking about, but more objective and magical. A voice of reason and things far beyond what you could learn from the normal state of your fractal memory
Theories about genetics, geometry, evolution, a life of being nothing but content, and the self all explode with as much guidance as you felt that night. The magic can become real in the form of the these, more primal logos.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: stemmer]
    #5012580 - 12/04/05 12:29 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

heres one i drew

this is sorta a self-portrait from my perspective of the phenomena you are describing.
myself, my surroundings, and my best friend, as one entity.
i saw clearly that i was god, the scourse of all the universe, my companion, my friend, a contrasting point of view for the purpose of making the chaos of non-existance real. the devil, and the shrinking universe around us.
we merged back into one entity and the universe closed in, while similtaneously becomming extremely big from, my, his, and its own point of view.
if you know of heaven or hell, i guess you could say it was there. what was missing was a wonder, a fleeting sense of beauty. accomplishment left us and was filled by a crushing and open potential. reason became self-explanitory, questions became totally obsolete, the answers were readily conceived into existance similtaneously as they were posed.
and the devil grinned, offering comfort but being capable of giving none. nor was god able to accept it, for at this stage the two were unified, in a sense of apology and remorse. a mirrior image of one face and no mirrors.
a mess indeed.
at this stage i could no longer identify with either extreme, NOR the amalgum of the duo (the universe as one)
i was somehow not I, there was no me, and yet there was.
there simply was. a voice without pitch or form called from the abyssmal light. it grew in a triangular split as its infinate nothingness was pulled away from its center to once again bring about existance, and we re-emerged, the drawing is the image of the two extremes, pulling themselves apart and reconfuguring reality in a "forgive and forget" vein.
NOT to end the endless struggle between good and evil,
but rather to ressurect it in all its glory.

to me it seemed that perhaps sometimes, the God and the devil get together and merge, simply because they are tired of struggle, then remember why they are at odds. not because they hate eachother, but because they love the world which is the manifestation OF that struggle.
and in that struggle, it is nessisary for them to forget themselves.

finding themselves they realize they are happier NOT knowing themselves. more real perhaps. to give away all possesion and control and become utterly at the mercy of their conflicting natures, two beings that are one and perceive themselves as many.

would you beleive, that being touched in this way, and seeing it as i do, i have ZERO pride. if anything, i feel guilty for being the epicenter of that union.

its my blessing and curse.

blessed by god to know that there is a finality, yet not to an end.
and cursed by the devil to know that every misstep i can take is a building block of that endless finality.

that the path to heaven it harder for the pious than the profane comes with a snicker from the back of my most twisted and tortured dreams.

the universe to me reflects my perception of it.
sometimes, small, and fragile like a baby. the balance so delicate, my responsibility great.
sometimes it seems intangeble, indestructable, and awesome.

theres really no words in speakable language that can impart true nature. merely parts of it, very small parts, created to give it potency in the minds who ARE it.

lately, as there is such a thing, i have been exhausted to walk that road, tho i know, somehow i will again, that I was meant to and that whatever happens, whatever action or inaction i take, i will find myself on that very fammiliar road. and it is quite literally a road. i have opened my eyes from time to time and looked to my feet and recognized that i have wandered back upon it.

and im still here.


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5012681 - 12/04/05 01:08 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

That is a great point and a really interesting piece of art.


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Offlinepsychedelix
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5012961 - 12/04/05 04:44 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

w..o..w
I rated you wise friend. What you speak of was a wider manifestation of what I was seeing. For me, when I first tried mushrooms, they were something just trippy, and I didn't know of their true meaning. Somehow, as of very recently, I have discovered a new and profound respect for this marvelous life form. The most amazing part is it takes us to a place that teaches far more important lessons about who we are, and it leaves us in a state of thought, and peace. The sketch/drawing you have is astonishing(<=no better word), and this has inspired me to start recording everything I experience, because it's value is awesome. Honestly when I saw that sketch/drawing, it made alot of sense. You sound like a REAL person, and even though this is the internet, I still believe you're more real than many people I know.
Keep doing what you do, I think the world has something to learn from the philosophy you acknowledge...


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Offlinecoda
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: psychedelix]
    #5013470 - 12/04/05 11:14 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

ive never seen what you've seen, but, ive experienced something that i like to call the "arm of god". Was tripping on 4.5 g's of EQ poo shrooms at a festival this fall. Decided to do a bulb of n20 in front of the fire while my buddy was finding more wood. Ended up floating in this black void when all of a sudden i felt very warm and calm (it was like 20 degrees outside) and i just saw this "fractal" (cant be more specific, but it looked like and arm made out of spheres) come towards me and encircle me. I stayed in this void for a good 5 min before slowly dissolving back to reality. As soon as i left the void i instanly became freezing cold and instantly afraid. Unfortunately i got lost in some heavy mind loops and ended up in the fetal position in my tent praying for the trip to end.

Truly a rough ride but that one small experience will stick with me forever.


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: psychedelix]
    #5013532 - 12/04/05 11:31 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

The Infinite Universes my friends are a wonderful place to live in. And fractals are the *key* to the Universe. They were discovered just 30 years ago. They are the mandalas of the 20th century.

Recently, a spanish *physicist*, together with a team of doctors, has discovered how to stop the development of cancer using fractal geometry. He knew nothing about medicine and began working on it after his grandmother died. He has been working without *any* monetary help from any institution, just by himself, for the last 13 years, during 16 hours a day. Everybody dispissed him.

Fast forward to May 2005. It's a discovery that has been published on Lancet, the most prestigious medical journal in the world, and in other medical journals and might mean the end of certain types of cancer.

"Regulation of neutrophilia by granulocyte colony-stimulating factor: a new cancer therapy that reversed a case of terminal hepatocellular carcinoma"
http://www.terapia-cancer.org/docs/Journal_of_Clinical_Research_MAY_2005.pdf

"Fractal tumor contours question therapy strategies The Lancet Oncology", Lancet Oncology
http://www.terapia-cancer.org/docs/The_Lancet_oncology.PDF

More info and papers in english: http://www.terapia-cancer.org

About cosmology and the Universe. Andrei Linde is one of the most prestigious scientists regarding the Universe.

Recent versions of inflationary theory assert that instead of being a single, expanding ball of fire described by the big bang theory, the universe looks like a huge growing fractal. It consists of many inflating balls that produce new balls, which in turn produce more new balls, ad infinitum. Therefore the evolution of the universe has no end and may have no beginning. After inflation the universe becomes divided into different exponentially large domains inside which properties of elementary particles and even dimension of space-time may be different. Thus, the new cosmological theory leads to a considerable modification of the standard point of view on the structure and evolution of the universe and on our own place in the world.

"The universe globally looks not like an expanding ball, but like a huge fractal consisting of exponentially large domains permanently produced during inflation."
The Self-Reproducing Inflationary Universe
http://www.stanford.edu/%7Ealinde/1032226.pdf
http://www.stanford.edu/~alinde/


Nature speaks. Wise Humans listen. Enjoy being alive. It's a true miracle.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/images/Romanesco/


Edited by infinitedot (12/05/05 06:46 AM)


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5013609 - 12/04/05 11:54 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

gotta love the fractal christmas cauliflower.
i always want to buy them and put them on a shelf.

sounds pretty vain now eh?

the same phenomena exist in all plants, starting from leaves and culminating in fruiting parts.

the golden mean.

however, dispite its beauty and complexity, its quite simply explained. something folding upon itself to make use of finate space or cornstructive resources will naturally create a spiral, as each section grows, and upon itself more sections, the speed of growth is incresed proportional to the size. this presents a finate area of infinate potential. a fractal. life.
heres a drawing ive done depicting that exact principle.

its incomplete and flawed by color choice. but the point is made.
notice the ratios simmilar to life imagery, the shape of a fetus with newforming limb buds and eyes, even umbilical cord, notice the facial potential, need a little help?
here.


recognizing this potential, we gain the ability to form MANY interlocking suggestions, finding comonality in ALL things.

that perhaps thing really ARE all one and that perhaps perception is an illusion, a self-justifying vice of the consious mind, creating complex explanations for simple suggestions of energy patterns. fire an atom at ANYTHING and all you hit is empty space. but to our sence of self and physical boundies (ego functions) its as solid as the nose on our face. heres some trasendental image fractal play. ive posted these many times BTW. but i love to use them to describe meaning.

and an egyptian motiff

these of course, are journal entries
i havent worked on it in a while, but i will again rather soon i beleive.


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5014563 - 12/04/05 04:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Philosophical Implications of Inflationary Cosmology

Abstract

"Recent developments in cosmology indicate that every history having a nonzero probability is realized in infinitely many distinct regions of spacetime. Thus, it appears that the universe contains infinitely many civilizations exactly like our own, as well as infinitely many civiliations that differ from our own in any way permitted by physical laws. We explore the implications of this conclusion for ethical theory and for the doomsday argument. In the infinite universe, we find that the doomsday argument applies only to effects which change the average lifetime of all civilizations, and not those which affect our civilization alone."

http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00001341/


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5014588 - 12/04/05 04:53 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

MATRIX

Universe creation on a computer

Abstract

"The purpose of this paper is to provide an account of the epistemology and metaphysics of universe creation on a computer. The paper begins with F.J.Tipler's argument that our experience is indistinguishable from the experience of someone embedded in a perfect computer simulation of our own universe, hence we cannot know whether or not we are part of such a computer program ourselves. Tipler's argument is treated as a special case of epistemological scepticism, in a similar vein to `brain-in-a-vat' arguments. It is argued that the hypothesis that our universe is a program running on a digital computer in another universe generates empirical predictions, and is therefore a falsifiable hypothesis. The computer program hypothesis is also treated as a hypothesis about what exists beyond the physical world, and is compared with Kant's metaphysics of noumena. It is proposed that a theory about what exists beyond the physical world should be formulated with the precise concepts of mathematics, and should generate physical predictions. It is argued that if our universe is a program running on a digital computer, then our universe must have compact spatial topology, and the possibilities of observationally testing this prediction are considered. The possibility of testing the computer program hypothesis with the value of the density parameter Omega_0 is also analysed. The informational requirements for a computer to represent a universeexactly and completely are considered. Consequent doubt is thrown upon Tipler's claim that if a hierarchy of computer universes exists, we would not be able to know which `level of implementation' our universe exists at. It is then argued that a digital computer simulation of a universe cannot exist as a universe. However, the paper concludes with the acknowledgement that an analog computer simulation can be objectively related to the thing it represents, hence an analog computer simulation of a universe could, in principle, exist as a universe."

http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00001891/


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OfflineGomp
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5014621 - 12/04/05 05:02 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)



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Offlinepsychedelix
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: Gomp]
    #5016269 - 12/05/05 12:24 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I am reading and I am thinking at a speed accellerating faster than light.  This stuff is hardcore boys. I will ponder something and write it sometime...
:uptosomething:


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Offlinewjames
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: psychedelix]
    #5016647 - 12/05/05 06:04 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Well, first, thanks for explaining your experience :smile:

I've had analogous kinds of experiences.  For me, such an experience is kind of "iffy" in the first place:  if one admits there might be such a thing as the devil or trickster, then it it could be that the *whole experience* is a trick.  Mystics and sages all talk about the danger of "the devil appearing in the guise of an angel of light."
It's a problem.

Second, one has to separate the experience itself from one's attempts to fit the experience into concepts--to make sense of it.  What I mean is that maybe it would be better to try *not* to understand the experience in verbal or logical terms.  Just let the experience be the experience.  (I don't know how realistic that is, though--it's just an idea.)

Anyway, back the first point, I think the important question one needs to ask about these kinds of experience is:  What are the practical implications of the experience for how you live life when *not* tripping?  If if makes you a better person, more loving, more unselfish, more connected, more successful, more involved, then it's more likely to be good.  But if it just makes you a "trippier" person, more convinced that you have some special knowledge that other people don't have or aren't worthy of, isolates you, makes you disdainful of social institutions and traditions, makes you think you need more entheogens, stronger doses, and different varieties, then you need to seriously ask whether the whole experience is an illusion.

I'm not suggesting this is the case with you or your experience, but I think it's a genuine risk of using entheogens and needs to get  more out in the open.


Edited by wjames (12/05/05 06:28 AM)


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: wjames]
    #5016651 - 12/05/05 06:11 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Now compare your idea of being at the end of a fractal with this other picture from the NASA, taken from http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_or/m_or3.html



?Are we, like galaxies scattered throughout the Universe, at the VERY end of a fractal that it's indeed connected to the Source?

Food for thought.


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: wjames]
    #5016666 - 12/05/05 06:22 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wjames said:
What are the practical implications of the experience for how you live life when *not* tripping?




VERY good question.

My personal answer is a feeling of awe at the miracle of Life, humility, the feeling that it all makes sense, being nothingness and everythingness at the same time, that gives meaning to one word:

Happiness.


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5016678 - 12/05/05 06:34 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Science experiments with 4% of what the Universe is.


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Offlinepsychedelix
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5016716 - 12/05/05 07:28 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


if one admits there might be such a thing as the devil or trickster, then it it could be that the *whole experience* is a trick. Mystics and sages all talk about the danger of "the devil appearing in the guise of an angel of light."
It's a problem.





That is exactly something I thought about... but then again you also brought up something very real as well...
Quote:


Second, one has to separate the experience itself from one's attempts to fit the experience into concepts--to make sense of it. What I mean is that maybe it would be better to try *not* to understand the experience in verbal or logical terms. Just let the experience be the experience. (I don't know how realistic that is, though--it's just an idea.)




:yinyang:
this implicates everything, and it brings forth the hardest thing for humans to understand which is:
"All contradicts itself"
I truly believe that everything in all reality contradicts itself in some way that I cannot begin to explain, it would take me a few hundred hours to write.  As a kid(the following is something I've only told my mother and a few other people), I used to have these nightmares that involved black spheres of nothingness yet wholeness that would grow larger and larger, like fighting for space, evetually to the point where it was 'too much'.  I would wake up sweating and at times crying.  All those spheres started out as one little sphere just in the center of everything, and it split into more spheres(in multiples, considering I was only 3-5 years old, how would I be aware of this?no clue) and the newly conceived ones would grow larger and larger and they would start amalgamating again until the last two remained, from there they don't join, they fight for space, until the point reached where I couldn't go on.  When I'd wake up I would hallucinate strange things, and I can't remember any images in my waking state, all I knew was that I was seeing things ina waking state.  I was a kid and thought it was just a part of dreaming, but I eventually asked my mom...
  My parents took me to a psychologist, but never came up with anything that would differ me from normal.  He told my parent's to read me happy stories and make sure I would drink a herbal tea that had sedative qualities before bedtime.

Whatever, that apparently worked according to my mom, but I remember having a milder version of the dream when I was 8 or so, that's when we came back to Canada, and it could've been triggered by all the stress I was putting up with.
Edit: <>Now that I've read considerable material on psychedelics, I can understand that maybe as a developing child, my pineal gland was active, and it might have triggered a trip-out experience... makes me feel weird just by thinking that a gland in my own brain(as a KID) can give me a dose high enough for me to hallucinate and trip(AS A KID :stars:), but I haven't researched this completely, maybe what I'm saying isn't possible = \ <>

I have no clue why I wrote something so personal[it connects with the whole topic though], but I guess it gets off my chest something that has been a burden to me since childhood, and my constant wondering of what everything is, makes me think that those dreams were something of similar significance with the trip I experienced the other night.  But what makes me think again is whether it is possible that psychedelics trigger deep conscious memory of self perception.  I wouldn't know for sure, but I do know, what I saw on mushrooms was news to me at the time I was experiencing it.  I do know it can't be just a coincidence that I saw something others have as well, but a vague connection between the two spheres can lead me to relate them to the essence of good and evil...

I'm starting to think that I'm thinking too much so I'm going to try and just not think about this for the next few days and see if I can come to an acceptance or understanding.

  I wouldn't mind if more people voice their opinions on this subject,  my thoughts are all over the place and one question that pops into my head triggers a next 10.  Thanks to everyone that is contributing to this, means alot.
:thumbup:

:yinyang:


Edited by psychedelix (12/05/05 07:44 AM)


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Offlinepsychedelix
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: psychedelix]
    #5016721 - 12/05/05 07:31 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


My personal answer is a feeling of awe at the miracle of Life, humility, the feeling that it all makes sense, being nothingness and everythingness at the same time, that gives meaning to one word:

Happiness.





That is something worth thinking about, thanks.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: psychedelix]
    #5017000 - 12/05/05 09:29 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i've seen the devil a few times.

the most perplexing was sober in my dreams. I was about to leave this huge "hotel with apartments in it" just this massive complex of things..... as I decided I didn't really give a damn about the plot of my dream.

and this guy starts yelling at me trying to distract me, and i ignore him.

and he wants me to listen to his radio station. and i ignore him.

but then these boxes appear that say "tool" on them, and well, this keeps me from leaving (i was going to see the "apartment manager" actually.... is that supposed to be God?) and .... so in the boxes are magic 8 balls (symbolising my lack of ability to make decisions, I often flip coins sometimes.....) and then this guy comes up to me, the one who was yelling... and as i look at him he morphs red and looks kind of devilish.

and like, he's trying to tempt me with omniscience, and it's kind of freaking me out... and i ask how i can get him to leave, and he points at this statue of jesus, but it looks all fake and plastic and he's like a midget or something.

so i say the lords prayer..... and ... as i get to a certain part (I HATE DOGMA, so i was doing this out of fear! just to hope i can keep myself safe) as i get to a certain part, he holds up this little like army man toy or something, symbolising me, and he was about to drop it, which would KILL ME if I finished praying.

so i didn't finish praying, and immediately woke up.

and as i woke up i had psychedelic visuals, the devil moved up to a higher plane of subconsciousness and turned into freddy krueger.

so obviously, this is internal... i mean, all the symbolism, etc, it's subjective, relating to my life.... and i think it's kind of fake, since it took the form of freddy, but yeah.....

then like on herb sometimes i encounter what i think to be the "devil"

God? Not so much... the first few times I got high I said "God?" and heard a strong voice saying "yes?"

Though I did have a dream 2 days ago where I was hooked up to a God machine... some sort of tube that connected me to "pure light" and I asked it questions, but I got suspicious because I asked if it was Yahweh, and it said yes, but I don't really believe in Yahweh, so I thought it was just my mind making things up, so I tried to control God's mind to see if it was just a dream character, but I couldn't.

I asked it only like two questions and I don't remember exactly what, but they weren't profound questions nor did I get profound actions.

I remember asking to be taken up to meet God as gently as possible though.

side tangent on the lords prayer: I'm starting to think that Jesus exists symbolically in the collective unconscious of mankind...... that he can help you, but he's not necessarily ... like a literal being..... just a symbol to meditate upon to understand love and the negation of ego, to help you transcend up to a higher state of functioning, and i think his... death, the crucifix, is in the heart chakra, symbolising selfless sacrifice, and this helps you go up into the throat, etc....

anyway, so the lords prayer itself, structurally, is a pretty good prayer.... i mean our father who art in heaven? Well yes, think abou the crown chakra, the white light that is supposed to be gained from opening it...... thy will be done on earth (the root) as it is in heaven (the crown) ..... lead us not into temptation (abandon desires... attachments) but deliver us from evil (this i don't like, because if you believe that things are evil, this keeps you from love and makes you reside in fear) etc, etc... for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever, amen.

so i mean, it's kind of just a general prayer for protection and liberation from your human failing and temptations. but if you take it in a christian sense ... well i don't like taking it in a christian sense.

and also... the way catholics cross their hearts.... it just reminds me of what i said about jesus being crucified in your heart..... it's like a way to gesture the negation of your ego...... (while high i had a vision of myself being crucified over my heart, in order to still my mind and aid me in rising above ordinary consciousness)

yeah..... symbolism. But symbolism is not true divinity, it's just a way of getting there.

scattered thoughts.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (12/05/05 09:36 AM)


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Offlinepsychedelix
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: leery11]
    #5017048 - 12/05/05 09:46 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

o.kay
That sounds far out man, but dreams about religious figures don't make my jaw drop. I was born into an Orthodox Christian family, and the icons, stories, and the respective fear of God was plotted into my brain after I was 9 or 10. Personally, I don't have too much respect for what the church has become, but I am a firm believer in Jesus, Buddha and so on. Their philosophies of life make sense, and prove they are lessons from a higher consciousness. So even though your dream may have been very symbolic, personally, I, wouldn't take it that serious, but it all depends on your belief.

Believing in God is what separates man from animal... but I wouldn't stick by that statement, it's just something I wanted to say, who knows if it even makes sense, animals could believe in God more than we do.


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: psychedelix]
    #5017059 - 12/05/05 09:51 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

oh yeah i man i mean i don't think it means i'm posessed or anything like that..... but you know, why dream of the devil when it could just be like, a talking dog or something? So the dream meant something rather important, just not in the literal satan sense i don't think.

i do think that "shadow" and the "devil" are parts of our psyche that we repress and condemn....... but it's all just philosophy isn't it? anything that you believe becomes real in the depths of your mind.........


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineLuciferSam
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: leery11]
    #5017114 - 12/05/05 10:21 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

To 'believe' in God or The Devil, you have to buy into Good and Bad also. Isn't the nature of reality, and of nature itself just to 'be'.

There is no right or wrong in nature, just survival. So how can Man be any different to the nature of things? I don't believe in Good or Bad, so therefore I can't believe in God or The Devil. I believe that you can make choices, and the choices you make can have positive or negative consequences. But simply to state 'that is Good' or 'that is Bad' is too subjective.

So in summary - if you see 'God' or 'The Devil' whilst tripping or dreaming, don't read too much into it - this sort of stuff is ingrained in our deep collective memories, it will take ages, aeons perhaps to be filtered out..


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: LuciferSam]
    #5017242 - 12/05/05 10:59 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I wouldn't say that things of nature are just to 'be'.
Common man, you really think that it is only our thoughts that point us to God. There are countless things in your life that have happened that made you differ right from wrong, good from evil. I really wouldn't know if you're describing a world where people never waged war or made peace. What you say is bah. It has no place in the world we occupy. If you want to know about survival, it means using resources to live your life, even if it means distinguishing others for food or territory, which is a primative mentality. We all know survival without doing bad for another and good for yourself cannot exist, therefore, there is such thing as good and bad. I don't want to say too much, because I'm ready to pass out and can't think that straight.
I can argue that there is such thing as a manifestor of good as well as another for evil. I have felt it before, and as of lately, I'm pretty sure I saw something that made more sense to me than I can write about.

Until next time...
ciao


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: psychedelix]
    #5017368 - 12/05/05 11:27 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Why? The thing in nature is just that a thing. You are the one who puts a good or bad label on it depending on what filter you are looking at it through. For instance, through the filter of the body, a snake is dangerous, it can inject venom that may harm or kill you. Through the filter of curiosity, the snake may be fun and interesting, colorful and quick moving, what is that? To believe that either one is more correct or whatever is wrong. They are all simply ways to view, each one true to itself when looked at in that way, yet like a prism at the same time, capable of many different colors(views) from the same light(thing).

It seems that we make good and bad. Ever seen the word good, naturally? Without human intervention?


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: mecreateme]
    #5017633 - 12/05/05 12:20 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I saw the devil in a trip once: it was me. I thought I was the devil for tricking myself (and my friends) into eating something poisonous like mushrooms, trading a little fun for a destroyed mind. My friends were laughing it up while I was panicing about my self-realization. I felt horrible and it got me thinking about how we spend so much time to avoid the devil that we may not even notice that WE are the devil. Well, that trip fucked me up mentally for a while but since I have become more educated (shrooms are not really poisonous) and have had a few trips to sort eveything out. That trip was just a prelude into my current belief that everything is simultaneously "good" and "evil" to the point that there is NO "good" or "evil"--Everything is as it is.

Oh, I saw the fractals and the source coming from everything but at the same time I was trapped in a circus of evil and trickery that I was the ringleader of!


--------------------
I do not grow anything illegal.
I do not sell anything.
I am, however, a very curious individual.
I also try to be helpful.


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: psychedelix]
    #5021768 - 12/06/05 02:26 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Alright, I think the last post I shouldn't have written it in that way.
My outlook on this world, is in all simplicity, the contradiction of one another.

I think that there is a sense of 2 things always merging in dependance of one another to create one whole, collectiveness, forming something new.  I guess it's that togetherness that makes everything move and turn.

I worte this hours ago, forgetting to submit.  :foreheadslap:


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: psychedelix]
    #5033580 - 12/08/05 10:57 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Psychedelix, about you feeling at the border of a fractal...

Holographic principle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

The holographic principle is a speculative conjecture about quantum gravity theories, proposed by Gerard 't Hooft and improved and promoted by Leonard Susskind, claiming that all of the information contained in a volume of space can be represented by a theory that lives in the boundary of that region. In other words, if you have a room then you can model all of the events within that room by creating a theory that only takes into account what happens in the walls of the room. The holographic principle also states that at most there is one degree of freedom per Planck area in that theory.


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5033769 - 12/08/05 11:41 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Son of a bitch, that sounds brilliant!
Man people in here really are on top of shit when it comes to bringing up interesting topics and expanding on them.  I say this is ideal by my standards.
infinitedot, you've done it again, now all the spare time that I'll have I will spend reading up on things I experienced from one night compared to taking other people their whole life's work to prove it's existence through writing a fuck load of words... trully amazing material:thumbup:


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5033790 - 12/08/05 11:46 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

:wink:


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5033821 - 12/08/05 11:55 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

You might very well want to check these as well:

Holotropic Mind, by Stanislav Grof. Grof is the father of Transpersonal Psychology. He was experimenting with LSD in psychotherapy. Go figure.

"Transpersonal psychology is concerned with the study of humanity?s highest potential, and with the recognition, understanding, and realization of unitive, spiritual, and transcendent states of consciousness"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpersonal_psychology

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062503677


Holographic Universe:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060922583


About physics and mysticism, the two classic works are:

The Dancing Wu Li Masters
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/055326382X


The Tao of Physics
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1570625190


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5033880 - 12/08/05 12:14 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

And some more pictures to think about:

Spirals found in the Mandelbrot's Julia fractal. I rendered this yesterday, with Ultrafractal:


Sri Yantra mandala, symbol of Man and the Cosmos:


Sahasrara, the crown chakra, found in a plantation:



Ice flakes. Creation never repeats. There are no two exact ice flakes in the whole Universe.


"There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception."
"I wanted to change the world. But I have found that the only thing one can be sure of changing is oneself."
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music."
"Those who believe that they are exclusively in the right are generally those who achieve something."
"An intellectual is a person who has discovered something more interesting than sex."
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
"Maybe this world is another planet's Hell."
"All gods are homemade, and it is we who pull their strings, and so, give them the power to pull ours."
"Every man who knows how to read has it in his power to magnify himself, to multiply the ways in which he exists, to make his life full, significant and interesting."
"Most of one's life is one prolonged effort to prevent oneself thinking."
"Several excuses are always less convincing than one."
"The most distressing thing that can happen to a prophet is to be proved wrong. The next most distressing thing is to be proved right."
"The proper study of mankind is books."
"The secret of genius is to carry the spirit of the child into old age, which mean never losing your enthusiasm."
"Thought must be divided against itself before it can come to any knowledge of itself."
"Uncontrolled, the hunger and thirst after God may become an obstacle, cutting off the soul from what it desires. If a man would travel far along the mystic road, he must learn to desire God intensely but in stillness, passively and yet with all his heart and mind and strength. "
"Which is better: to have fun with fungi or to have Idiocy with ideology, to have wars because of words, to have tomorrow's misdeeds out of yesterday's miscreeds?"

All of them by a 20th Century genius and psychonaut: Aldous Huxley.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldous_Huxley


Edited by infinitedot (12/08/05 12:16 PM)


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5034004 - 12/08/05 12:58 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

A Holotropic Mind Within - A Holographic Universe
http://www.meta-religion.com/Physics/Consciousness/a_holotropic_mind_within.htm

The Holographic Universe, Michael Talbot

HarperCollins, 1991 (338 pp)

The Holotropic Mind, Stanislov Grof-

HarperCollins, 1992 (240 pp)

Reviewed by Bryan Geer

Our understanding of the universe is only as fine as the ?models? we build to explain it to us. Plato likened the universe to a giant bowl, in which the one true god-like a master chef-mixed together the ingrediants of creation. Later, after Newton and up through the Industrial Revolution, the universe was likened to a giant clockwork mechanism, and god was reduced to the role of the Prime Clockmaker, content now to do nothing but watch creation wind down.

In the early twentieth century, new wrinkles were added to the fabric of the universe: quantum mechanics, the Uncertainty Principle, and Relativity, to name a few. The old mechanistic, deterministic view of the universe was shattered forever-but what new model do we have not to replace it with?

In the mid-1960?s, a powerful new technology was developed: HOLOGRAPHY, in which the interferance patterns of twin laser beams create realistic three-dimensional images. Interestingly enough, any fragment of the holographic film can be used to create the entire original 3-D image.

When University of London physicist David Bohm, a protege of Einstein?s and one of the world?s most respected quantum physicists, encountered holography for the first time, he was electrified (figuratively): here at last was a new process on which to model our understanding of the universe-THE UNIVERSE IS LIKE A HOLOGRAM.

This fascinating theory is the subject of Michael Talbot?s absorbing book, The Holographic Universe. Talbot explains the origin of the holographic model in the work of Bohm-dissatisfied with the standard theories? inability to explain all of the phenomena encountered in quantum physics-and the work of Karl Pribram, a neurophysiologist at Stanford University, who was likewise dissatisfied with the inability of standard theories of the brain to explain various neurophysiological puzzles... like for instance the appaarent NON-LOCAL existance of memory within the brain.

Prior to the work of Pribram, it was generally assumed that specific memories had specific locations somewhere within the brain tissues-called ?engrams.? For example, a rat trained to run a maze would have an ?engram? of the maze in its brain; find that engram and cut it out, and the rat should become lost. But a series of experiments conducted by Pribram?s mentor, Karl Lashley, at the Yerkes Laboratory of Primate Biology, demonstrated that this was not so: the rat brains could be sliced, diced, shuffled, and fricassed-yet the rats still could navigate the maze.

To Pribram, the only explanation was that the memories were NOT located at specific sites within the brain, but were somehow spread out or distributed throughout the brain. The problem was that he knew of no process or mechanism that could account for such a state of affairs-until he encountered holography.

Just as one fragment of a hologram can create the entire holographic image (with admittedly less detail and lower resolution), so too can one fragment of the brain remember the contents of the brain as a whole (ditto on the lower resolution). Ergo: THE BRAIN IS LIKE A HOLOGRAM.

And that is the thesis of Stanislov Grof?s book The Holotropic Mind. Grof, a former Freudian dissatisfied with traditional psychoanalysis? inability to explain many psychological problems, is widely known as the father of transpersonal psychology-the idea that a person?s psyche is not necessarily limited to his own brain. Under the right conditions (psychoactive drugs or Holotropic Breathwork TM, e.g.), a person can experience ?transpersonal? states of consciousness, and think the thoughts of other people, past lives, plants and animals, the planet itself, or even the entire cosmos.

The holographic model came into existance when Pribram-already convinced of the holographic nature of the brain-encountered the work of Bohm, and discovered that the entire universe was like a hologram.

To the naked eye, an un-illuminated piece of holographic film appears to have no order or meaning. Its order is implied within the apparently random interference patterns; illuminated by the proper light, the implicate order becomes explicate and the image appears. Our three-dimensional universe, likewise, is the explicate construction of a vaster and more mysterious dimensionless realm, illuminated by the light of consciousness.

[See also the Bose-Einstein Condensate model of consciousness within The Quantum Society]

Bohm and Pribram realized that the holographic model explained a number of mysteries both mundane and profound: how people with hearing in only one ear can determine the direction from which a sound originates, our ability to recognize the face of someone we have not seen in many years even if they have changed greatly, and the apparent inability of any theory, no matter how comprehensive, to account for all the phenomena encountered in nature.

Michael Talbot takes these ideas one step further, and demonstrates how the holographic model can explain telepathy, precognition, mystical feelings of oneness with the universe (a specialty of Grof?s as well) and even psychokinesis. Naturally, these ideas have no place in the old Newtonian model of the universe; but if the psi phenomena is real, how else can we explain it?

The holographic model is highly controversial, and is by no means accepted by a majority of scientists. However, many important and impressive thinkers DO support it and believe it to be the most accurate picture of reality to date.

Begin by reading The Holotropic Mind. After Grof has convinced you of the reality of the brain-as-hologram idea you will be ready to delve into the universe-as-hologram theory as explained by Talbot-these two volumes are quite complementary. Once you grasp the essential whole-in-part of the holographic model, you will be ready, in the words of the poet William Blake:

To see the World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an Hour.


Edited by infinitedot (12/08/05 01:05 PM)


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5034020 - 12/08/05 01:03 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

In that review it talks about David Bohm, one of the leading scientists in the 20th Century.


He had INTENSE talks that helped develop his theories with...
...Jiddu Krishnamurti, probably the most Enlightened being in 20th Century too.



For more info:
A Brief Introduction To The Work Of Krishnamurti, by Professor David Bohm.
http://www.ratical.com/many_worlds/K/K1.html#BohmIntro2K
And: http://www.prahlad.org/gallery/krishnamurti.htm


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Offlinepsychedelix
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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5034195 - 12/08/05 01:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

mann, I was writing about the coincidence when you mentioned Aldous Huxley and I was watching a DVD on him called THe Gravity of Light, Anyway, I've had this problem with my laptop where if I watch any type of video with divx/xvid compression, my system sometimes locks-up, and it happened right after I finished writing a half-hour's worth of ideas and just valuable thoughts in the process of a spell check... fuck

but it might've happened for a reason, and I won't dismiss the possibility, but I really wanted to post that...  :ohwell:


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: psychedelix]
    #5034200 - 12/08/05 01:49 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

fuck :doggystyle:


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5034796 - 12/08/05 04:15 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Don't you ever dare to talk about "coincidences" anymore. :wink:

Call them Synchronicities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity



The man standing between Louis de Broglie and Heisenberg is Wolfgang Pauli.

He was psychoanalized by Carl Jung and together they came with the term Synchronicity to describe "meaningful coincidences". Of course, Pauli was harshly criticized among his colleagues for this "esoteric" knowledge.

Who knows. Someday Synchronicites might be part of that Theory of Everything.


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Re: anyone ever see god(source) & the devil(trickery) [Re: infinitedot]
    #5034938 - 12/08/05 04:40 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Dude, how much do you read...?
I remember doing a paper on Planck and I never knew about this picture, I know about the Solvay Congress, but I have no friggin clue this picture existed. I'd give you an A+ for being cool with knowledge, you're like a living Wikipedia


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