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 InjectTruth
Wasting my Time,Waiting for theEnd
Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 778
Loc: New Jerusalem
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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 Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers  [Re: carl]
#5013425 - 12/04/05 10:59 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I feel this way. It has totally changed my life, and as crazy as it seems, I can't come to terms with the "its you, not everyone else" concept.
I mean, I feel like I argue over the most basic things, like I say "the sky is blue" and everyone is "no its green, not blue". Its like Ive been in their realm, but they havent been in mine.
You know how adults act around children? Just kinda push em to the side so they dont get int the way, because no matter how hard the adult tries, the kid CANT understand yet. This is how I feel with other people. I try SO HARD to not think negative and be open to people, but within the first minute, they always do or say something that convinces me we are worlds apart.
EVEN HARDER, is still hanging with childhood friends who USED to understand, but now look back on that understanding as "childish and drug induced". Now, they honestly, truely believe working 40+ a week, even if you still cant pay the bills, is the only way to be "something".
Seriously though, if human experience consists of a range of experience, that means in a given locale, a person who has tripped has a BIGGER world than the person who hasnt tripped, because he has experienced all the same types of experience as the other person, PLUS more. Its like a venn diagram, all trippers are human, but not all humans are trippers.
Would you consider someone who has never had sex a mature human being? someone who never had a friend? Then why can you hide from the most concentrated form of mystery on the planet, and still be considered healthy? Its THEM, not US. Excuse me for wanting to be alive ALL THE TIME, instead of just after work.
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On a personal level, Freaking Out is a process whereby an
individual casts off outmoded and restricting standars of
thinking, dress, and social etiquette in order to express
CREATIVELY his relationship to his immediate environment and
the social structure as a whole.
http://www.OrganicPharming.com - Ethno Shopping Portal
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: InjectTruth]
#5014628 - 12/04/05 05:04 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think whether or not experiences make us wiser is the issue. The issue is that if you are arrogant and unkind to others you aren't as wise as you think you are.
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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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carl
Revolutionary
Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 374
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Divided_Sky]
#5018871 - 12/05/05 05:08 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Divided_Sky said:
I don't think whether or not experiences make us wiser is the issue. The issue is that if you are arrogant and unkind to others you aren't as wise as you think you are.
I am not arrogant and unkind to others...if someone is willing to listen i will tell them very nicely and try to educate them, but when they start saying government propogando bullshit which is the farthest thing from the truth and they will not listen to reason anyway, it gets very annoying. The one thing you learn from tripping is the expansion of our world. There is an unlimited amount of knowledge out there and there is no way you could ever know everything, but the people who act like they do know everything without ever experiencing a fraction of what is out there, that is what bugs me and would make you believe i am a mean person.
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incubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 2,629
Loc: the center of the univers...
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: carl]
#5018902 - 12/05/05 05:15 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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like toilet said, its hard to relate to those whom have no idea how to relate in return,
the majority of people, at this point in most of our lives, im pretty sure we are all pretty much in the 19-24 range, are taking thier place in line and becoming part of the walking dead tht is our society,
we have been shown that there is more to life than this, sometimes it is hard not to be condescending towrds complete ignorance...
even some who do trip...
some people just dont get "it"
those people, naturally, piss us off, we cant help it, maybe we are just spaced out hippies who try to see way to much in things, or maybe we know that there is much more to life...
i try not to be unkind, but sometimes people just say and do the most ignorant things, well, the majority of times actually, and all i an think is "what the fuck"
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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
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Ekstaza
stranger than most
Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 4,324
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 1 year, 15 days
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: carl]
#5018905 - 12/05/05 05:15 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's very easy to get annoyed by those who think that they know it all and dismiss them, but in their eyes you are doing the same thing. The best thing to do is to lead them to the information that they need and hope that they have the initiative to look for the answers. Some people, I will admit, are incurably and hopelessly ignorant. There is no amount of urging that will persuade them to seek the facts that oppose their myths.
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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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incubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 2,629
Loc: the center of the univers...
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Ekstaza]
#5018937 - 12/05/05 05:21 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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i try, i really do,
but sometimes i get fed up, i think we all probably do our best to be open to everything and everyone, by nature of the sort of people we are, most of us at least, and thinking about it, im prolly not mean to them, i only see it that way myself,
i never dismiss someone like, shut the fuck up, becuase you are stupid, to me, saying that would only make me as ignorant as them,
i try to converse, discuss, allow them to reitterate upon thier point, and then they open thier mouth and star tot talk and i realize that they have no grasp whatsoever on the english language, and they will be going on and on about something that it is clear they have no factual basis for,
i dont know...
i think becuase we have been the chosen select handful of existence that knows there is something more to life than day to day mundane bullshit, it probably does make us egotistical, maybe a little bit megalomaniacal, and concieted, and we do think we are better than others,
i hate to be the first in this thread to say it
but we are
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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: incubaby_421]
#5019228 - 12/05/05 06:21 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wrote a thread a while back about being frustrated about those same things:http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4847738/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1
However, you know the tree by its fruits. When you are unkind to people and arrogant you are not more enlightened. The proper response to people like that is love and acceptance, someday they may come to realize those same things.
But remeber, it is never about THEM, it is about YOU.
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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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incubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 2,629
Loc: the center of the univers...
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Divided_Sky]
#5019426 - 12/05/05 07:05 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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well i was arrogant before drugs so i guess i shouldnt expect much else...
like i said, im certain we all try to take that approach, and often times, it works, but other times, however
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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
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 formeillists
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 23
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: incubaby_421]
#5022830 - 12/06/05 10:55 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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My experience. What we have lived it's called a "Peak Experience", as told by William James. Or "Cosmic Consciousness".
Not an experienced tripper. I don't smoke and I don't do drugs. 3 recreational level 3-4 trips on mushrooms.
1 level 5 Ego death some months ago. I got prepared for some months, doing a lot of readings on entheogens. Took them as a way to self-knowledge.
The ego death trip has totally changed my life. Totally.
For good.
I experienced the usual Knowledge with entheogens: Everything is One, you are One with the Universe, God is you, God is in everything. Life and the whole Universe has a purpose and everything makes perfect sense. Lost all fear to death.
Reading that line and trying to intellectually understand it, as we can all agree, is much different from actually experiencing it.
I can relate to the megalomaniacal feelings. As it's been already pointed, you feel different to the rest of the people who haven't been lucky enough to experience it. I experienced infinite power during my trip, and I think this has to do with having a really empowered Ego now.
I appreciate every second of my life now better than I always did, as a true marvel.
I guess that to some extent, all of us feel a bit insecure. Now I have gained a control over my Ego which, sometimes, can seem scary to others, because they know that I don't care what others might think about my behaviour, provided I know I'm doing things correctly.
Now it's as if I could see the true Egos inside the people, without their masks. Carl Jung called this seeing The Shadow. I have become very good at pointing this, and I have found that I have to learn to control it, as making others conscious of their weakneses can really really hurt them.
Yes, it's hard to be in a social reunion and realising how people complains about the silliest things, such as lack of money, political affairs, work conditions and so on, when they don't realise the absolute gift that being alive is.
I'm learning not to try to judge others because I know for a fact that all of us have got reasons to be the way we are.
There is one thing that I find VERY hard to cope with whenever I spot it: Hypocrisy. I can totally shread apart a person, pointing his behaviour to others. This can really crush them.
I wouldn't exchange that experience for nothing in the world, I'm not planning to take mushrooms maybe any more, or at least for a long long time. I know this experience is going to be with me for the rest of my life.
I have to learn not to judge others that much. I know for a fact that we are all One and the Same, where Good and Bad are void concepts that haven't got any sense. But in this reality, the day to day reality, Good and Bad exists. Monistic vs. Dualistic conceptions of the world.
Enlightenment doesn't mean always behaving like a saint. There are certainly lots of different degrees of Enlightenment. Check Ken Wilber's Spectrum Consciousness for that.
You do NOT need to hate your ego but to embrace it, loving yourself EVEN for hating. That only means you are alive and, as such, imperfect. It's *very* important to realize that we are all imperfect. Even Jesus (I don't follow any religion anyway) shouted to everybody and went on an Ego trip with the whip in the Temple, and even killed a fig tree. Check Mark 11:12-18
For me, Enlightenment means having experienced Truth if only for a few minutes, and then coming back to dualistic reality with that Knowledge.
To those of you who have experienced this and are going through this, I wholeheartedly recommend you watching this movie: Peter Weir's Fearless.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106881/
Another interesting movies on "losing touch with reality":
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0138704/ - Pi
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0268978/ - A Beautiful Mind
You don't need to come to the point where you "lose it", you can perfectly live in this world with that Knowledge. You just have to be a bit careful with it. It's perfectly fine feeling BETTER than others, even though, deep inside, you know you are not, provided you also feel compasionate about them. That's were true wisdom is.
And let me recommend you a book that has REALLY helped me going through all this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087477649X/ - The Stormy Search for the Self
Check this book as well: Cosmic Consciousness http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0140193375/
All the best from a fellow Searcher
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If entheogens have spiritually changed your Life, you HAVE to read this book: The Stormy Search for the Self - Stanislav Grof
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formeillists
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 23
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: formeillists]
#5022871 - 12/06/05 11:03 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Also, I'm in my early thirties. I honestly think that in order to make the absolute best of such an experience, your personality has to be mature enough.
I wouldn't recommend an Ego Death trip to anybody in his teens or early 20's. It might be hard to cope with, it takes A LOT of introspection work to do on your own to really understand it. Once you have developed a good part of a mature personality, that can give you the tools needed to make the best of it, because you know better were your weakneses and strengths are.
That's only my personal opinion though.
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If entheogens have spiritually changed your Life, you HAVE to read this book: The Stormy Search for the Self - Stanislav Grof
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formeillists
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 23
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: formeillists]
#5023028 - 12/06/05 11:32 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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The factor Number 1 why Drugs are so criminalised is the old age enemy of Consciusness and Self-Knowledge: FEAR
Don Juan tells Castaneda that there are four inner obstacles he must overcome: fear, clarity, power, and
These four elements are both obstacles as well as necessary preconditions.
1. Fear
If we give in to fear we will never conquer it. We must not run away. We must defy our fear. To become knowledgeable [=enlightened] we must first be afraid and then we must overcome the fear. [There is only one thing we must fear: and that is fear itself.] Once we have vanquished fear, we are free from it for the rest of our lives because, instead of fear, we have acquired clarity -- a clarity of mind which erases fear.
2. Clarity
And thus we will encounter our second enemy: Clarity! That clarity of mind, which is so hard to obtain, dispels fear, but also blinds. It forces us never to doubt ourselves. Clarity will give a false sense of knowledge and stop us from continuing the path of knowledge [=enlightenment]. [Clarity will enable us to see. We will see anything and therefore we will lose modesty. We will think we have reached the end, the highest level. We have not yet realized that there is more. Despite the fact that we can see with clarity there are things beyond our scope, outside our vision. There are still things to learn.] We must do what we did with fear: we must defy our clarity and use it only to see. [We must stay humble and remain with a desire to learn, become knowledgeable, become enlightened.] Once we have vercome our second enemy, we will arrive at a position where nothing can harm us anymore. We will have power.
3. Power
But we will also come across our third enemy: Power! With the power available to us we will feel invincible. We command; we make rules, we are masters. But this also can lead to our downfall. Power can turn us into cruel, capricious men. We have to learn when and how to use the power. [Anything we do affects other people or the environment and we are responsible for them as well.] We have to come to realize that the power we have seemingly conquered is in reality never ours. Clarity and power without control is dangerous. [We have to control the power or it controls us.]
4. Old Age
Now the last of our enemies will attack: Old age! We have to overcome the desire to rest. This struggle will never end. [We will never be perfect. But it is our responsibility to use our powers/talents, instead of being idle.] There are many paths in our life and we are free to chose any. No path leads anywhere! [It is the
journey that counts, not the destination.] There is no final destination to reach. Some paths have "hearts," others don't. We must always chose a "path with heart". How will we know if a path has heart?
Don Juan says that we will simply know. [Our subconscious will tell us. We must follow our instincts!]
If we travel on a path with heart it will be a joyful journey. [It is always more important that we like what we do, then doing something that might lead us somewhere. We should live in the Now! We should not
take a painful path that we do not like, thinking erroneously that we will be rewarded at the destination. The journey is the reward, not the destination. See "The Power of Now".]
Choose paths with HEART.
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If entheogens have spiritually changed your Life, you HAVE to read this book: The Stormy Search for the Self - Stanislav Grof
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sic_zim85
Bach's Bitch
Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 225
Loc: Brainsville
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: formeillists]
#5023947 - 12/06/05 02:40 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sometimes I am not sure if Psychedelics have hurt my "mind". There are things I've learned while being on Shrooms that I have never forgotten. I've learned to look at the world with an observing eye/mind and be free of thought towards anything. Sometimes we just watch something but don't understand what it is doing. I've also learned to appreciate what it is that people do for you and to respect life. Man before drugs I was into death and killing. I mean I thought it was cool (maybe the bad ass punk stage) but I've had such a love for life and the world now after I've had my handful of experiences. Yes, there are people I have seen that don't respect the drugs and don't learn from them. These fools are poor, depressed, alone, and basically a walking black hole, sucking in anything that steps within four feet of them.
=ERik=
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sublimistri
Higher Than AKite
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 2,952
Loc: Forgotten
Last seen: 16 years, 24 days
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: StickyWater]
#5024073 - 12/06/05 03:15 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
StickyWater said:
as well as showing me that there's an entirely different side to life that I often tend to overlook, as a result I do have more confidence in myself and I feel more comfortable in situations which would have made me completely withdraw myself. I could easily imagine them doing to others exactly what you described
They effected me in this exact way.
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Tradelist
My Ethnobotanical Garden
Cup Greenhouse Tek. Make small sturdy pots (With detachable grenhouse tops) with cups.
Your human friend will have to dose atropine uninformed, I will not spread information that may harm a cat. - Wiccan_Seeker 
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Kaleidoscope
Voodoo Child
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 674
Loc: the 28th dimension
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: sic_zim85]
#5024099 - 12/06/05 03:20 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've noticed that since I've started tripping the opposite has happened to me. I am much more humble and I get along better with people. I'm guessing that this is the more common than ego tripping. I can definately see where ego tripping comes from though. On my last mushroom trip I sort of got a feeling that I was better than my roommates and friends and that needed to distance myself from them...It wasn't a fun time. I was lucky in that I could talk my way out of it with my roommate without offending him and that he was very understanding.
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Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.
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incubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 2,629
Loc: the center of the univers...
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Kaleidoscope]
#5024739 - 12/06/05 05:31 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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maturity is in the eye of the beholder
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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
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kmoney
Stranger
Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 8
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: incubaby_421]
#5025003 - 12/06/05 06:26 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd say the effect of the trip on the ego wouldn't depend so much on the actual mind state of tripping as it would on the events of the trip and how the person reflected on them and judged them.
Perhaps a more ego driven person would be more likely to derive a egotistical conclusion from the trip, whereas a more humble person would derive more persuasion for humility.
Edited by kmoney (12/06/05 06:26 PM)
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Mnboardin
Stranger
Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 767
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: kmoney]
#10834569 - 08/10/09 05:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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*Bump*
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showme
Stranger
Registered: 01/23/09
Posts: 1,782
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: carl]
#10834829 - 08/10/09 06:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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thought provoking post.
You said a lot.
The experience is ultimately in the hands of the user.
If a user has any sort of goal, going into the experience psychedelics make it a lot easier to complete this goal.
When some of your ego is stripped away you become a better human, better at being human, you are more able to accomplish things in your mind that was hindered before.
Depending on what you want to accomplish, the psychedelic experience can help or hurt you. Sometimes people don't know exactly what they need, only what they think they need.
People with low self esteem grip onto the oppurtunity psychedelics give to raise it (based on love), without acknowledging the reasons behind their low self esteem or attempting to fix brokenness from the inside. Rather they might base it all on the idea that at the moment, there doesn't seem any reason why this human being doesn't deserve love.
The psychedelic experience can take you anywhere... just as real life except the psychedelic in a more severe way. Increased brain power can bring you to more complicated pitfalls if one isn't careful.
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Listening
scaler of mountains
Registered: 02/11/09
Posts: 107
Loc: Montreal
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Mnboardin]
#10834901 - 08/10/09 06:15 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm happy this thread was bumped as it was a great read. Some seriously good posts here.
Reading through posts on the shroomery, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that psychedelics can cause some people to have an inflated ego. So many people on these forums seem to completely miss the fundamental truth of our species: that all men are inherently equal, that love (or heart, or moral intuition) is the only guide that we can trust in the end, and that people can only be judged in relation to how hard they're trying to climb the mountain - not by the height that they've already reached.
Ultimately, even at their best, psychedelic drugs are but tools. You can most certainly learn a great deal from them, but you can also miss the point completely. On the flip side, you can never touch a psychedelic and achieve far more true enlightenment than 99% of the people on this forum (go read The Kingdom of God Is Within You for an example).
One way or another, you need to be climbing that mountain, day-in day-out, and it's tough work. It's tough not to look down on others who you think are not as experienced as you... but don't be so quick to assume that they're not more experienced than you are on an important topic that you've not yet thought about sufficiently. It's not fundamentally wrong to think that you are smarter than someone else (maybe it's true), but there's a slippery slope waiting for you to turn it into an automatic habit, so watch out.
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showme
Stranger
Registered: 01/23/09
Posts: 1,782
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Listening]
#10834983 - 08/10/09 06:27 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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^yes. very good post. 
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Imagination is the organ of meaning.
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