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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Icelander]
    #5004663 - 12/01/05 10:09 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What if depression is your spiritual/emotional self telling you that you are not living an authentic life. That you need to change things but you are unwilling to take that risk or even face some things that terrify you or are painful. What if the chemical imbalances are caused by this and not the other way around.

What are you going to do then?




I agree!


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: dblaney]
    #5005289 - 12/02/05 01:09 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Yet as soon as someone thinks a biochemical process could cause depression, they refuse to believe it. While they firmly believe a chemical will help them reach god (mushrooms), they refuse to believe a chemical/drug could relieve depression (SSRI's for example).

It all sounds a tad hypocritical to me.


Perhaps I should elaborate. I didn't mean that depression cannot be explained as a byproduct of neurochemistry. Rather, that I don't believe depression to be an inherent trait in people who are depressed. It is something that is learned or acquired somehow, either immediately or gradually. In this sense, it has a truly psychological origin, and the bio and neurochemical changes are merely byproducts of this.

Whoever posted that it's important not to simply mask the symptoms is right, IMO. While in the short term it may be pleasant and relieving, it's not addressing the underlying issue, and simply causing other biochemical changes and potentially even a dependence. Psychotherapy, over time, has the potential to address the underlying issues. Combine that with spiritual practice and discipline, such as meditation or awareness training, a good diet, and a generally healthy lifestyle, and IMO one stands a great chance of overcoming their depression.




Well said (typed?).


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OfflineGillette
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5005759 - 12/02/05 06:55 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

hmmm I think I have alot to say about this, but I'm not sure how to get it all out.....

1st, Elley I love you, because I know what you mean. I feel like a complete emotional mess alot of the time, for weeks I'll be ok, or at least I think I am, but really its all building and then its like the roof caves in and I freak out, but I let myself do it, for some reason I'm facinated with the extent of my emotion. I'm enthralled with my behaviour. Not to mention I think emotion reminds you, your alive!

I'm sure depression is something we chose for ourselves, really this is the sad thing. I know the root of my problem, and yet I chose to do nothing about it. But at the same time it may be an imbalance, to me tho, its not a chemical imbalance in my mind, its just an imbalance, an energy imbalance, a chakra imbalance, things are not flowing as they should, something has gone wrong.

Comfort is the opposite of freedom.


--------------------
~Earth is the Insane Asylum of the Universe~

A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: looner2]
    #5005928 - 12/02/05 08:24 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
What if depression is your spiritual/emotional self telling you that you are not living an authentic life. That you need to change things but you are unwilling to take that risk or even face some things that terrify you or are painful. What if the chemical imbalances are caused by this and not the other way around.

What are you going to do then?




I agree!




:thumbup:Hi Looner, Haven't seen you for awhile. Hope you're doin well.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Gillette]
    #5007940 - 12/02/05 06:56 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gillette said:
hmmm I think I have alot to say about this, but I'm not sure how to get it all out.....

1st, Elley I love you, because I know what you mean. I feel like a complete emotional mess alot of the time, for weeks I'll be ok, or at least I think I am, but really its all building and then its like the roof caves in and I freak out, but I let myself do it, for some reason I'm facinated with the extent of my emotion. I'm enthralled with my behaviour. Not to mention I think emotion reminds you, your alive!

I'm sure depression is something we chose for ourselves, really this is the sad thing. I know the root of my problem, and yet I chose to do nothing about it. But at the same time it may be an imbalance, to me tho, its not a chemical imbalance in my mind, its just an imbalance, an energy imbalance, a chakra imbalance, things are not flowing as they should, something has gone wrong.

Comfort is the opposite of freedom.




I feel the same way about my athletes foot. I think people enjoy the benefits of "having depression". its like a girl asking to go to the bathroom in school... "but mr. Pearson, its girl stuff".
"Sorry I completely flaked out on you guys...i was feeling depressed"...
I never met a happy woman that didnt have soemthing currently catastrophic going on in their lives.
I see and hear people all the time saying SMUGLY EVEN! that "yeah...im bi-polar". They wear it like a medal.
I also think it became so widespread, because everyone wanted their own disorder, or thought that their uniqueness would be more prominent if they had some seemingly debilitating mental oddity. Striving for some sign of lunacy or madness which all their favorite "geniuses" were afflicted with.

but then again, im just another asshole with a shitty opinion.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5007957 - 12/02/05 07:03 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I never met a happy woman that didnt have soemthing currently catastrophic going on in their lives.




Veritas is happy and does not court catastrophy. Just the opposite. But many women do. But if you look at all close you will see the sadness. They are not happy with their disfunction just as men are not. Yet they laugh and laugh, because they are ashamed to cry.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblepeepeepottypants
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Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 1,040
Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5007975 - 12/02/05 07:10 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

You know the fact that people would wear depression on their sleeves depressed me even more when I was depressed...and I think a lot of times, it was because I realized how ubiquitous it was, and that I wasnt the only one....and that no...NO ONE is unique for having this disfunction. In fact it seems that true happieness, is FAR more sparse.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: peepeepottypants]
    #5007992 - 12/02/05 07:17 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I never see the depression afflicted people ask happy people how they stay happy. They only talk to other depressed people who give the "keep your head up" rhetoric once they are finished one-upping each other about who is more depressed.

I am happy. Always have been. I can probably count on my fingers the amount of times I have been down.


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InvisibleVirgilKane
Miner for truth and delusion
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Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: lowdown
Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: MOTH]
    #5008010 - 12/02/05 07:23 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

b]EllemyshShade said:
 

I'm sure I'll be less depressed, but I will have more "episodes."  That's how I remember being before I started getting high all the time.  I'd have a bloody meltdown every day or so.


Hey Mysh. :heart:

  I think that after all this time smoking and having the realizations that I've seen you have here, when these "episodes" come now it's a perfect opportunity to step back from them with the wisdom that you now have, look deep and see where they're coming from.


It's a real challenge and could be the best Christmas gift that you've ever gotten!!!

Keep searching!! :thumbup: :heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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Invisiblepeepeepottypants
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Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 1,040
Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5008023 - 12/02/05 07:25 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I think that it can also be a good process of opening up isolation. If I was in a truely desperate state of mind it would be really thereputic to find someone else who at least understands it, so I didnt feel so alone in my feelings.

With depression, the further in it you get, the more you believe it, the more it shapes your reality. There are some points where you really do reminders that you are not totally alone because you are too absorbed in it to know the reality of anything.
but that state of mind is usually momentary in the grand scheme of depressed states.

its a lot of the reason I talk about my depression now, because I know hearing other people on shroomery talk about it themselves, gave me a means to get a grip on myself when I was getting super crazy


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InvisibleMOTH
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5008027 - 12/02/05 07:26 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Quote:

Gillette said:
hmmm I think I have alot to say about this, but I'm not sure how to get it all out.....

1st, Elley I love you, because I know what you mean. I feel like a complete emotional mess alot of the time, for weeks I'll be ok, or at least I think I am, but really its all building and then its like the roof caves in and I freak out, but I let myself do it, for some reason I'm facinated with the extent of my emotion. I'm enthralled with my behaviour. Not to mention I think emotion reminds you, your alive!

I'm sure depression is something we chose for ourselves, really this is the sad thing. I know the root of my problem, and yet I chose to do nothing about it. But at the same time it may be an imbalance, to me tho, its not a chemical imbalance in my mind, its just an imbalance, an energy imbalance, a chakra imbalance, things are not flowing as they should, something has gone wrong.

Comfort is the opposite of freedom.




I feel the same way about my athletes foot. I think people enjoy the benefits of "having depression". its like a girl asking to go to the bathroom in school... "but mr. Pearson, its girl stuff".
"Sorry I completely flaked out on you guys...i was feeling depressed"...
I never met a happy woman that didnt have soemthing currently catastrophic going on in their lives.
I see and hear people all the time saying SMUGLY EVEN! that "yeah...im bi-polar". They wear it like a medal.
I also think it became so widespread, because everyone wanted their own disorder, or thought that their uniqueness would be more prominent if they had some seemingly debilitating mental oddity. Striving for some sign of lunacy or madness which all their favorite "geniuses" were afflicted with.

but then again, im just another asshole with a shitty opinion.




Some people feel the need to romanticize mental illness. Like a fashion accessory.

At the community college I attended, I met this one dude. He came up to me and he said, "Hey, my name is Jon, nice to meet you. I have bipolar disorder."

I was like... "...oh..."

Then, for the remainder of the time that I knew him (several months) he constantly reminded me that he was bipolar. Like...all the time. He even carried a book about bipolar disorder around with him everywhere. (for personal reading)

It's like he was determined to BE bipolar.

I have a similar host of diagnosis but I prefer not to think of myself as one big walking disorder.

I talk all the time about my issues on the Shroomery although in real life I never even mention them. I am uncomfortable with discussing mental illness in person. It hits a little too close to home and there is nothing "fun" or "cool" or "artistic" or "genuius" about feeling shitty all the time, barely able to get out of bed without considering suicide. It's miserable to be like this and I get pissed when I run into people like that dude at the college, wearing their mental illness "tag" on their sleeve, like it's another fashion accessory.

Unfortunately, it's become popular for people to say they're mentally ill and it's the ones who really struggle daily, hourly, minute to minute who suffer from others carelessly assuming a "tag" to make themselves sound more "edgy" or whatever they think. It's hard to get taken seriously when so many people are using mental illness like this. I'm pretty much used to people "brushing off" the way I feel inside and declaring it invalid which is why I've learned to internalize everything. Fortunately, the key to my internal warehouse is the written word, and I find it a lot easier to communicate to others this way. That's why the Shroomery is a very nice outlet for me.

In my opinion, everyone is just varying degrees of crazy. /shrug.


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InvisibleMOTH
Wild Woman
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: VirgilKane]
    #5008037 - 12/02/05 07:29 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

schapper said:
b]EllemyshShade said:
 

I'm sure I'll be less depressed, but I will have more "episodes."  That's how I remember being before I started getting high all the time.  I'd have a bloody meltdown every day or so.


Hey Mysh. :heart:

  I think that after all this time smoking and having the realizations that I've seen you have here, when these "episodes" come now it's a perfect opportunity to step back from them with the wisdom that you now have, look deep and see where they're coming from.


It's a real challenge and could be the best Christmas gift that you've ever gotten!!!

Keep searching!! :thumbup: :heart: :thumbup:




Thanks.  :smile:  It's day two without pot and I've already noticed a HUGE improvement in my moods. 

Much less depressed without the pot holding me down. 

And I have a lot more energy.  :smile:

And a lot less patience.  :wink:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: MOTH]
    #5008117 - 12/02/05 07:46 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

If so many people understand that it is YOU affecting YOURSELF, why do they keep personifying it?


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InvisibleMOTH
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Posts: 23,431
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5008147 - 12/02/05 07:58 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I actually don't think most people believe they have control over mental illness. Most people who are deep in depression feel victimized and isolated by and from the world. It took me YEARS to understand that *I* am the one who is choosing my moods. I choose how to react to life. And even with this realization, the tools I need to manage my moods in a healthy way are under-developed and weak. I've just never learned how to handle my emotions in a way that isn't destructive and self-damaging.


Over time, I have worked on developing healthy coping methods and I have come a long way, but there is still a long way to go.

And there is something to be said for chemical imbalances...although I believe that the mind and the body have a symbiotic relationship. If there is a weakness in the mind, it will be reproduced in the body.

I also can't speak for anyone else...since I am replying only from my own personal experience.


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Invisiblegoobler
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Registered: 02/24/03
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: MOTH]
    #5008159 - 12/02/05 08:02 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh


AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh



CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


:heart:


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: goobler]
    #5008188 - 12/02/05 08:12 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I love you Goobler. 

(good buildup, there :wink: )


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Invisiblemantis
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Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 5,235
Loc: Bunker Alpha, GMC Flag
Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Icelander]
    #5008415 - 12/02/05 09:16 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Depression takes introspection to another level. In that sense, it MAY have a positive effect on a person.

However, it is a horrible experience and I can't say anything good about it. It's ridiculous to suggest that it's remotely healthy.

People need to learn through their mistakes, not through a chemical imbalance that leads to irrational feelings of guilt and low self-worth.

In other words: "fuck that shit" :wink:


--------------------


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OfflineGliders
Oh, hello!

Registered: 08/29/05
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Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Veritas]
    #5008869 - 12/03/05 12:18 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Peepee and Veritas, I have to agree on this. I don't even see this feeling you're describing as depression, although many may say it is. When I feel this way I don't associate it with unhappiness. It's cozy curl-up-on-the-couch days and watching the rain, and maybe listening to some indy music heavy in minor chords. It's about digging in deep, and not worrying about why I'm not flitting about like a butterfly (which I'll do when the time is right).


--------------------


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Invisibletoad857
President of theUnited States

Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 283
Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Gliders]
    #5096223 - 12/22/05 11:25 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

great conversation!

i love you all!

:laugh:


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OfflineEnergi
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: toad857]
    #5097315 - 12/23/05 09:53 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I have to say I have been moderately depressed for about a year now. It all started with me and my friends smoking weed. Im not blaming my problems on weed but It was that we formed these habits of planning out weekends but the ended up just in search of more weed. In the end weed always won. Its really sad that my friends cant realize this but I have. I just found that we never do anything. I lost hobbies and things that made me happy. But I now find this to be one of the most valuable lessons in my life. I dont know who quoted this but you cant learn if you are comfortable. We have to go through pain and suffering to truly be happy.


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