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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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I love what Thomas Moore says about depression. He calls it "saturnalia," and likens it to an emotional winter. Just as winter allows the process of biological growth to take a break, to lie fallow and soak up the rain, depression allows the process of emotional growth to take a break.
The physical symptoms of depression, increased need for sleep, apathy, etc...keep us in one place, force us to cease our endless busy-ness, and unplug us from our daily routines. We long to curl up in a warm, womb-like place & sleep the winter away.
While we sleep, perhaps our energy gathers for springtime growth. If we can refrain from interfering, we may find that healing has taken place during our emotional winter.
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Foley
No added sugar.


Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 81
Last seen: 18 years, 22 days
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Veritas]
#5001939 - 12/01/05 10:45 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's human nature to be unhappy, it gives makes us insecure or vulnerable and forces us to seek someone to fill the gap so we can reproduce ourselves.
-------------------- Foley There were hard times ahead for the people of planet Ventura, Staring into the networks of space and time, Their eyes were open, But still, they were blind, I wandered through the weird and lurid landscape of another planet - Pendulum, Another Planet
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peepeepottypants
Stranger


Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 1,040
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Foley]
#5001956 - 12/01/05 10:48 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is that human nature though? I have a feeling the first humans on this earth did not feel the need to fill their emotional gap
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Foley]
#5001967 - 12/01/05 10:50 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Foley said: It's human nature to be unhappy, it gives makes us insecure or vulnerable and forces us to seek someone to fill the gap so we can reproduce ourselves.
Is this why all mammals breed? I doubt it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grav


Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Veritas]
#5001979 - 12/01/05 10:54 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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i think depression reflects an emptiness inside. it's a lack of power, a feeling of helplessness, or a lack of faith in your own life and what you're doing.
for me personally i know there is something about life that scares me and makes me feel like a lost little child in an unfamiliar place. the other night i was hangin around the back of my university near the woods and i stared into the dark spaces between the trees and could feel my own fear reflected back towards me. i knew it was there and moved closer to the darkness and kept breathing. i felt a little relieved afterwards, i felt stronger.
my other main feeling of emptiness is harder for me to understand, but it's a fear that im wasting my life away in safety, instead of risking more for love. sometimes i think im afraid to really feel my own desires and recognize my own unhibited sense of beauty.
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Foley
No added sugar.


Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 81
Last seen: 18 years, 22 days
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Icelander]
#5001980 - 12/01/05 10:54 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I doubt it aswell, but complex mammals which are intelligent with a complex culture often do strange things which I think goes back to the primal insticts to reproduce or be dominant.
-------------------- Foley There were hard times ahead for the people of planet Ventura, Staring into the networks of space and time, Their eyes were open, But still, they were blind, I wandered through the weird and lurid landscape of another planet - Pendulum, Another Planet
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Grav]
#5002019 - 12/01/05 11:04 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grav said: i think depression reflects an emptiness inside. it's a lack of power, a feeling of helplessness, or a lack of faith in your own life and what you're doing.
for me personally i know there is something about life that scares me and makes me feel like a lost little child in an unfamiliar place. the other night i was hangin around the back of my university near the woods and i stared into the dark spaces between the trees and could feel my own fear reflected back towards me. i knew it was there and moved closer to the darkness and kept breathing. i felt a little relieved afterwards, i felt stronger.
my other main feeling of emptiness is harder for me to understand, but it's a fear that im wasting my life away in safety, instead of risking more for love. sometimes i think im afraid to really feel my own desires and recognize my own unhibited sense of beauty.
This is some major awareness, it would do well to keep exploring IMO.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: badchad]
#5002756 - 12/01/05 02:35 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yet as soon as someone thinks a biochemical process could cause depression, they refuse to believe it. While they firmly believe a chemical will help them reach god (mushrooms), they refuse to believe a chemical/drug could relieve depression (SSRI's for example).
It all sounds a tad hypocritical to me.
Perhaps I should elaborate. I didn't mean that depression cannot be explained as a byproduct of neurochemistry. Rather, that I don't believe depression to be an inherent trait in people who are depressed. It is something that is learned or acquired somehow, either immediately or gradually. In this sense, it has a truly psychological origin, and the bio and neurochemical changes are merely byproducts of this.
Whoever posted that it's important not to simply mask the symptoms is right, IMO. While in the short term it may be pleasant and relieving, it's not addressing the underlying issue, and simply causing other biochemical changes and potentially even a dependence. Psychotherapy, over time, has the potential to address the underlying issues. Combine that with spiritual practice and discipline, such as meditation or awareness training, a good diet, and a generally healthy lifestyle, and IMO one stands a great chance of overcoming their depression.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: dblaney]
#5002769 - 12/01/05 02:40 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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the real question is, can happiness exist without depression?
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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koppie
astral projectile


Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 2,653
Loc: cloud hidden
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Icelander]
#5002834 - 12/01/05 02:55 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I suppose that the majority of depression cases are symptom of a life out of balance. (Some people might actually have such low serotonin levels that they permanently need medication, but I think those cases are rare.)
The trouble with depression is that while you are depressed it is hard to do something about it. One advantage of antidepressants I have experienced personally is that they make you see that being happy is actually better than being depressed. (Before taking SSRIs I was comfortable with being miserable, I was a sarcastic little shit ) The second advantage is that they give you the courage, mental clarity, energy and enthusiasm to bring your life into balance so eventually you can do without. (I am not that far, I have only been taking them for a year after being miserable for the better part of the previous fifteen years, which is most of my adult life.)
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canid
irregular meat sprocket



Registered: 02/26/02
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Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Icelander]
#5002858 - 12/01/05 03:00 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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if that is the case, then i think a person should do what i already think a depressed person should do. find out what is at the root for the emotional imbalance and work through it. tret the problem untill the symptoms resolve instead of throwing a pill at the symptoms.
kotik: of course it can. i'm happy ,ost of the time. i still lapse into minor depressions from time to time, but they are easily resolved.
all i had to do was see where most of my stress, anger and hopelessness had been comming from and work through them. after the first step (moving out of my step father's house), it was easy.
i then reafirmed my values. i have them and believe in them, so i can give direction to my life that I find to be meaningful. it is hard to be happy for me without purpouse.
--------------------
Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it. If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: kotik]
#5003025 - 12/01/05 03:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
kotik said: the real question is, can happiness exist without depression?
of course, i was happy throughout my childhood and never suffered depression until i reached the age of 18. happiness is our natural state.
Edited by Deviate (12/01/05 03:52 PM)
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Deviate]
#5003079 - 12/01/05 04:02 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I sometimes feel that depression is just an illusion that I use to entertain myself with.
But illusions aren't so painful.
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peepeepottypants
Stranger


Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 1,040
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: MOTH]
#5003085 - 12/01/05 04:03 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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You know there have been times I've felt the same way. Other times I've found myself absorbed in it because theres something strangely comforting and familiar about it
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Yes, like an old quilt you wrap yourself in. It weighs heavily on your shoulders, but it feels soft and smells like Winter mornings.
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Yeah it's weird...it's like, when I start to feel "down," I can clearly SEE (like in my minds eye) that I have a choice here: I can either buck up and look at the bright side, or I can choose to let myself slid down into the shrieking hole of despair.
I always tend to choose despair. It feels like I don't have the energy for anything else. Like, "what is the point of feeling happy now...I don't FEEL HAPPY." (but really I am just wasting time being sad) Usually when I am depressed I just feel empty nothing. It is like a void. A void so empty and silent that it is screaming and hurting me.
Then there is the other side...the raging emotional side. This side is always there but I suppress it. Then it will burst out eventually. It's usually after I've "filled up" on internal issues for awhile, and then they all burst out. These moments are terrible, but I wouldn't call them depression. More like psychotic meltdowns.
So yeah...half the time, it seems like YES, I really do have a choice over my moods!! Awesome! I can clearly see how my ego is choosing what to feel!
The other half of the time (the panicked emotional parts) ...it's like something else just takes over. I can honestly say that it is like I am a hostage and prisoner in my own flesh in these situations. Nothing makes sense and it's like I revert to the mentality of an animal.
anyway
But I can't say for sure if depression is healthy. It probably is since it makes you feel so shitty.
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peepeepottypants
Stranger


Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 1,040
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: MOTH]
#5003150 - 12/01/05 04:22 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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"The other half of the time (the panicked emotional parts) ...it's like something else just takes over. I can honestly say that it is like I am a hostage and prisoner in my own flesh in these situations. Nothing makes sense and it's like I revert to the mentality of an animal. "
I can understand this as well, do you feel that it may have any correlation to your choosing to be depressed. I know when I would actively agree that I have chosen to be depressed, I would still be very proned to manic meltdowns, the anxiety would be built up. Since I have been shrugging of depression knowingly lately, I have noticed my anxiety and panic has subsided as well. I've found myself able to deal with things that would normally send me spiralling. As of late something happened that normally would make me absolutely manic without a doubt, but because I've learned that I can choose my depressive state, I also realized that this situation itself in time will be OK as well.
Perhaps once you feel you would prefer happieness in your depressive states, you'll be able to bridge the ability to overcome the anxiety of particular situations.
Neither emotion is easy to deal with. I wish you luck in resolving all!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: MOTH]
#5003153 - 12/01/05 04:23 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
It feels like I don't have the energy for anything else.
Major point here. Low energy is depressive. High energy expansive. Inertia covers it. That's why it's hard to get out of depressive states. The energy is low and inertia keeps it low. And why exercise and diet can play a beneficial role in treating depression. They increase energy.
But as I said in a post some months ago. High energy states are conducive to feeling things. If the feelings are unresolved and uncomfortable the self protective ego structure will attempt to induce a depressive state once again.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: Icelander]
#5003209 - 12/01/05 04:42 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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WEll, looks like I will have a chance to start feeling things again in their pure form, for better or worse. I was using pot for years to null powerful feelings and lift me from any depression. Pot just turned any "uncomfortable feelings" right around into pleasantness. Well, I think it worked too well and started to have the opposite effect. Soon, I started to feel sad and anxious whenever I got high. I realized that instead of taking negative feelings away, pot was bringing negative feelings TOWARDS me.
Now I am on a dedicated weed break for 24 more days. I'm a little nervous about what will be revealed once the THC slowly starts fading from my brain.
I'm sure I'll be less depressed, but I will have more "episodes." That's how I remember being before I started getting high all the time. I'd have a bloody meltdown every day or so.
But I need to get my power back. Now my personal power is all inverted and dulled, dragging me down into depression. Part of me WANTS to feel that hysterical, spastic "edginess" inside again. And it isn't even exclusively a "want," it's a "need." If I don't snap out of this annoying shrieking hole, I am going to destroy everything.
Plus my book needs to be considered. I write about 10x more stuff whenever I'm sober.
This long, narcissistic post is evidence of that.
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Re: What if depression is healthy? [Re: MOTH]
#5003420 - 12/01/05 05:41 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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when i used to come online high id start to write a post and then halfway through just decide it wasn't worth the effort.
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