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fireworks_god
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#4992359 - 11/28/05 10:56 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Meanings only exist in words yo.
Meaning cannot exist within a word. Words are an abstraction that represents meaning itself. Yo'.
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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redgreenvines
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: fireworks_god]
#4993085 - 11/29/05 03:50 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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dictionary meanings are wordy, but the meaning is association from memory - some of which can be words but does not have to be words.
for an experience that is meaningful to take place means many "personal" memories are linked to the events happenning.
when you have an epiphany, a huge cascade of association follows some event and one after another associated recollection brings with it tremendous waves of re-inforcing associative connections.
this is the experience people seek in meaning, otherwise it is a challenge and an ally to have meaning surging beneath every glance or action. we constantly navigate through oceans of meaning. words are just a small part of it. the dictionary is a mere chip off the block when it comes to meaning. words are not required for meaning at all
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: fireworks_god]
#4996498 - 11/29/05 09:52 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nuh uh. Maya, maya, maya
'Meaning' itself is an abstraction. There is no meaningful 'meaning' to be meandered anywhere in the material universe. We have no Meaningoscopes to measure Mean-particles. There is no meaning outside the nervous system. Words represent concepts, correctly stringing concepts gives you meaning yo.
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#4997523 - 11/30/05 06:26 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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meaning is outside of our heads too, of course. A tree has meaning for a bird (protection from sun and rain, build a home, fruit food, etc.) The bird has meaning to the tree (distribution of seeds, getting insects, dunging,...) G*d is that, where all meanings come together and make sense again in one big meaning.
For myself, I see existence itself as meaning. If you ask me, what is my meaning of existence, I will answer existence itself. Without existence there is no meaning. The individual meaning of someone or something can be very local or quite 'global'/'universal'. Universe built conscious beings to recognize its meaning and go dance with it. Western society pulls us away from universal meaning, which is really simple and naive, I think.
Whatever anyone makes out of the conscious dance with existence, he is not the one alone to make meaning of it
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redgreenvines
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#4997804 - 11/30/05 09:27 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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right! all the conditioned beings are living in conditioned space in which they are part of the flow of conditioning for eachother. the meaning that uravels (in whichever being) is the relationship of such conditioning (the aggregate of impressions).
if no impression ever were made, no meaning would accrue.
in a way, meaning is like a friction between mentally conditioned surfaces. A kind of stickyness - recognition.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#4997831 - 11/30/05 09:42 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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MushmanTheManic said: Words represent concepts, correctly stringing concepts gives you meaning yo.
My dog certainly found no meaning in this quotation of yours. What do you think of that? Words are representations. Where does the meaning of the words "incorrect assesment of reality" exist? It certainly doesn't exist within the words themselves. Considering how I cannot instantly recognize and understand the meaning that you claim is inherent in the Chinese language, I think it is plainly obvious that we ourselves imply meaning, regardless of whether or not it is abstract or cannot be quantified.
Quote:
'Meaning' itself is an abstraction. There is no meaningful 'meaning' to be meandered anywhere in the material universe. We have no Meaningoscopes to measure Mean-particles.
We do have manners in which we can observe that people hold certain meaning. Ever stop at a stop sign, or perhaps see others do such?
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Le_Canard
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#4997848 - 11/30/05 09:52 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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1. Do you believe there is a "Meaning"? If so, what is it?
I think there is meaning, but our tiny little brains cannot comprehend it just yet. All we can do in this life is try to be happy and do right by our fellow humans.
2. If you believe in a "Meaning", why have you come to your particular conclusion?
I don't know. everyone seems to have all the answers, yet I highly suspect none of us do....
3. If you do believe in a "Meaning", then will you admit that you could possibly be wrong?
Sure! I'm not afraid to admit I just don't know!
4. If you do believe in a "Meaning", is your idea very important to your life or is it something you don't pay much attention to?
I mull it over and contemplate "why are we here" quite a bit sometimes, but I don't spend hours upon hours thinking about it.
5 In my case, this question is pretty moot....
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fireworks_god
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#4997869 - 11/30/05 10:00 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said: meaning is outside of our heads too, of course. A tree has meaning for a bird (protection from sun and rain, build a home, fruit food, etc.) The bird has meaning to the tree (distribution of seeds, getting insects, dunging,...)
Perhaps you are using the word "meaning" incorrectly. I sincerely doubt that a tree has any manner in which it can assign meaning to the sensory input it probably doesn't even have. I'm sure the wind doesn't see meaning in the grass. Does the light fixture in my ceiling realize the relationship we consider it to have to the light switch on the wall?
The bird doesn't realize the tree and its relationship with it for what it is. Meaning is not inherent within the system itself. It is implied by us. The nature of our perspective and comparisons between the perspectives of other humans is evidence for the fact that the world and its "meaning" are decided by us.
The bird might distribute that seed for that tree, but neither is aware of it. It wasn't intentional. The bird is a process and so is the tree, and the variables simply play off of each other. Anything with a brain might have some sense of meaning, but it doesn't lie within the system itself.
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G*d is that, where all meanings come together and make sense again in one big meaning.
I absolutely do not understand this statement.
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For myself, I see existence itself as meaning. If you ask me, what is my meaning of existence, I will answer existence itself.
Of course you see existance itself as meaning, as you yourself are the one perceiving existance and implying that meaning. Existance itself isn't meaning, and it isn't full of meaning, it simply is.
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Without existence there is no meaning.
And is it possible for there to be no existance?
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Universe built conscious beings to recognize its meaning and go dance with it. Western society pulls us away from universal meaning, which is really simple and naive, I think.
What is universal meaning? How does this "Western society" pull away from it? How have you confirmed that the "Universe" built us and that you have discovered the nature of its intention in doing so? These all seem like fluffy statements that have no real meaning.
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: fireworks_god]
#4998565 - 11/30/05 01:32 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
BlueCoyote said: meaning is outside of our heads too, of course. A tree has meaning for a bird (protection from sun and rain, build a home, fruit food, etc.) The bird has meaning to the tree (distribution of seeds, getting insects, dunging,...)
Perhaps you are using the word "meaning" incorrectly. I sincerely doubt that a tree has any manner in which it can assign meaning to the sensory input it probably doesn't even have. I'm sure the wind doesn't see meaning in the grass. Does the light fixture in my ceiling realize the relationship we consider it to have to the light switch on the wall?
The bird doesn't realize the tree and its relationship with it for what it is. Meaning is not inherent within the system itself. It is implied by us. The nature of our perspective and comparisons between the perspectives of other humans is evidence for the fact that the world and its "meaning" are decided by us.
The bird might distribute that seed for that tree, but neither is aware of it. It wasn't intentional. The bird is a process and so is the tree, and the variables simply play off of each other. Anything with a brain might have some sense of meaning, but it doesn't lie within the system itself.
That's perhaps because I stem from a different language, where meaning perhaps has a different meaning ? The awareness is not nescessarily needed for meaning to exist. That's like the perciever has not nescessarily to exist for the surroundings to exist. So, the meaning lies withing the systems, but higher brains are the ones capable of percieving it.
Quote:
Quote:
G*d is that, where all meanings come together and make sense again in one big meaning.
I absolutely do not understand this statement.
As we are not capable of percieving 'all' possible meanings of everything, this is the privilege of that what we may call g*d.
Quote:
Quote:
For myself, I see existence itself as meaning. If you ask me, what is my meaning of existence, I will answer existence itself.
Of course you see existance itself as meaning, as you yourself are the one perceiving existance and implying that meaning. Existance itself isn't meaning, and it isn't full of meaning, it simply is.
Existence is that, what animals with higher brainfunctions assign their meanings to. So existence is the prime-factor for meaning. In our case, existance exists as spareholder for our individual meaning.
Quote:
Quote:
Without existence there is no meaning.
And is it possible for there to be no existance?
I don't know. But as soon as there is existence, there is meaning.
Quote:
Quote:
Universe built conscious beings to recognize its meaning and go dance with it. Western society pulls us away from universal meaning, which is really simple and naive, I think.
What is universal meaning? How does this "Western society" pull away from it? How have you confirmed that the "Universe" built us and that you have discovered the nature of its intention in doing so? These all seem like fluffy statements that have no real meaning.
Hehe, very simple. Life is to keep existing, trying to be happy and striving for 'betterment'. And that for every person on this planet. We should aid eachother to get forward. Western Society teaches to help oneself then you may perhaps help others if you have time and lusture for it still. Of course second part is not seen as very important and through many factors (individualisation, monetairism, ...) society is pulled away from the humanitarian perspective, which is set up from universe itself
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: fireworks_god]
#4999822 - 11/30/05 06:33 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Words are representations. Where does the meaning of the words "incorrect assesment of reality" exist?"
The meaning seems to be in my understanding of language, and your use of language in a way which I can interpret. Does "Tree ant hold farm Susan billygoat" mean anything to you? All those words represent real things, where is the meaning?
You claim that words represent meaning. I can understand how a word could represent a tree or an idea, but a tree doesn't convey any meaning to me. If meaning does not exist in syntax, nor in objective reality, nor in concepts, where do you suppose it exists?
Considering how I cannot instantly recognize and understand the meaning that you claim is inherent in the Chinese language
I never mentioned anything about meaning being inherent in anything, in fact, I said meaning itself was an abstraction, similar to "goodness."
"Ever stop at a stop sign, or perhaps see others do such?"
Well... Stop signs say "Stop" on them! I can understand this word, and realize the proper action to take. Have you ever seen a dog stop at a Stop sign?
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: fireworks_god]
#4999917 - 11/30/05 06:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Without existence there is no meaning. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And is it possible for there to be no existance? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know. But as soon as there is existence, there is meaning. --- I repondered a bit over that and came to the conclusion that there is of course 'no existance', too (although it sounds liguistically paradox). Even that, embedded into context (existence), has meaning by itself
Edited by BlueCoyote (11/30/05 07:02 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5000641 - 11/30/05 10:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Do you search for or believe in "Meaning"? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5005631 - 12/02/05 03:57 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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uh and further reconsideration makes the 'mass of non-existance' much more weightfull in comparison to 'existence' itself...woa, like ' dark-energy ' is 70 % of our complete reality, but not measurable. Many analogies possible in meaning there and here
Edited by BlueCoyote (12/02/05 04:06 AM)
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