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Metasyn
one

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 239
Loc: PNW
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death
#4984865 - 11/26/05 09:55 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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My mother currently has metastatic breast cancer and probably has only a couple months to live. Naturally, this has got me thinking about death and all that so I thought I'd resurrect the neandertal-aged question ... what do you think happens when you die? Specifically, what do you think happens to your specific quanta of consciousness in the moments immediately after your physical body's demise?
My beliefs tend to fall along the lines of merging with a cosmic overmind (the top-level entity comprising the root of all life in the universe) where my consciousness exists boundarilessly with every other consciousness and after that a part of me (and a part of everything else) might recongeal into physical form somewhere down the line, but maybe not. (kind of like recombinant reproduction with every conciousness in the universe)
I'd like to hear other beliefs if you have them. Thank you.
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible



Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: death [Re: Metasyn]
#4984891 - 11/26/05 10:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry to hear about you mom 
I like Bill Hicks idea, " there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselfs" I think that fits in with your view on death and life.
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: death [Re: Metasyn]
#4986445 - 11/27/05 02:09 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Spend time with your mom. Do not delay.
God bless and best to you both.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: death [Re: Metasyn]
#4986479 - 11/27/05 02:17 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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i am sorry for your loss. try to let go.
one thing that i can PROMISE you about death: their is no more suffering.
my own thoughts of death range between these possibilities
1. life is a dream, and death is "waking up" just as when we are dreaming it all seems so real, and then we wake up and were like "woah... oh yeah.. THIS is what its really like" but what we wake up in to we just cant know
2. death is a dream: when we die, we are freed from attachment to consensual realtiy. we drift around in our own minds, we dream. maybe for eternity, or maybe for an intermediate phase followed by
3. reunion with god. Death is just the dissolution of the imaginary boundary between us and god. We are like icecubes floating in a glass. god is the water in the glass. when we die, our ice cube melts and we return to god. not one drop of our essence is lost, but we no longer hold ourselves afloat as a seperate entity.
these are just my intuitions.
All my feelings about the after death state our positive though. It is life that holds pain.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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It is life that holds the pain?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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redtailedhawk
Explorer of the Mystery


Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 559
Loc: The Old Continent
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My uncle who is also a very good friend of mine survived breast cancer ten years ago. They found something again last week and he is due to have some further tests done tomorrow to confirm their findings. I hope he'll be okay, yet I can imagine how you feel my friend.
I share your view on the afterlife. One mushroom trip especially made me confront this aspect of being; there were no angels and no bright light, only silence, darkness and void that was full of potential of things that were and could be. After a long time of nothingness the void moved and started to eradiate unconditional acceptance and love towards everything. It was beautiful.
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"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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yes. pain occurs during life, not after death, keep in mind that the process of DIEING which may be painfull is still part of life.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Movement is distortion of Stillness.
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krishnamurti
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 382
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Re: death [Re: dorkus]
#4987130 - 11/27/05 05:47 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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i believe death as an immediate end to your being. to all that is you.
anything mystical about death is just a product of our imagination, and imagination does not have a place when thought does not function.
-------------------- I'll see you down in Guantanamo Bay Donate spores to FSRC or suffer the consequences!* Wikipedia Overgrow has been shut down check out www.icmag.com if you need MJ info *consequences may or may not be suffered
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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I can live with that.
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bugi_bi
bogey_shroom

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 52
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: death [Re: dorkus]
#4987282 - 11/27/05 06:41 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Max Heindel, founder of The Rosicrucian Fellowship wrote:
The Riddle of Life and Death
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At every birth, what appears to be a new life comes into the world. Slowly the little form grows, it lives and moves among us, it becomes a factor in our lives; but at last there comes a time when the form ceases to move and decays. The love that came, whence we know not, has again passed to the invisible beyond. Then, in sorrow and perplexity we ask ourselves the three great questions concerning our existence: Whence have we come? Why are we here? Whither are we going?
Across every threshold the fearsome specter of Death throws his shadow. It visits alike the palace and the poorhouse. None are safe: old or young, well or ill, rich or poor. All alike must pass through this gloomy portal, and down the ages has sounded the piteous cry for a solution of the riddle of life, the riddle of death.
Unfortunately there has been much vague speculation by people who did not know, and it has therefore come to be the popularly accepted opinion that nothing definite can be known about the most important part of our existence: Life prior to its manifestation through the gate of birth and beyond the portal of death.
That idea is erroneous. Definite firsthand knowledge may be had by anyone who will take the trouble to cultivate the "sixth sense" which is latent in all. When it is acquired it opens our spiritual eyes so that we perceive the Spirits who are about to enter physical life by birth, and those who have just re-entered the beyond after death. We see them as clearly and definitely as we cognize physical beings by our ordinary sight. Nor is firsthand information about the inner worlds indispensable to satisfy the inquiring mind any more than it is necessary to visit China to learn about conditions there. We learn about foreign countries through the reports of returned travelers. There is as much knowledge concerning the world beyond as about the interior of Africa, Australia, or China.
The solution of the problem of Life and Being advocated in the following pages is based upon the concurrent testimony of many who have cultivated the above-mentioned faculty and are qualified to investigate the superphysical realms in a scientific manner. It is in harmony with scientific facts, an eternal truth in Nature which governs human progress, as the law of gravity serves to keep the stars unchangeably in their orbits about the Sun.
Three Theories Three theories have been brought forward to solve the riddle of life and death, and it seems to be universally agreed that a fourth is an impossible conception. If so, one of the three theories must be the true solution, or it remains insoluble; at least by man.
The riddle of life and death is a basic problem; everyone must solve it at some time, and it is of the utmost importance to each individual human being which of these theories he accepts; for his choice will color his whole life. In order that we may make an intelligent choice, it is necessary to know them all, to analyze, compare, and weigh them, holding the mind open and free from the bias of preconceived ideas, ready to accept or reject each theory upon its merits. Let us first state the three theories and then let us see how they agree with established facts of life and how far they are in harmony with other known laws of Nature, as we should reasonably expect them to be, if true, for discord in Nature is impossible.
1. THE MATERIALISTIC THEORY holds that life is a journey form the womb to the tomb; that mind is the product of matter; that man is the highest intelligence in the cosmos; and that intelligence perishes when the body dissolves at death.
2. THE THEORY OF THEOLOGY asserts that at each birth a newly-created soul enters the arena of life fresh from God; that at the end of one short span of life in the material world it passes through the gate of death into the invisible beyond, there to remain; and that its happiness or misery there is determined for all eternity by its belief just prior to death.
3. THE THEORY OF REBIRTH teaches that each Spirit is an integral part of God; that it enfolds all divine possibilities as a seed enfolds the plant; that by means of repeated existences in a gradually improving earthly body those latent powers are being slowly unfolded into dynamic energy; that none are lost, but that all Egos will ultimately attain the goal of perfection and reunion with God, bringing with them the cumulative experience which is the fruitage of their pilgrimage through matter.
The Materialistic Theory Comparing the materialistic theory with the known laws of Nature, we find that it is contrary to such well-established laws as those which declare matter and force indestructible. According to those laws mind cannot be destroyed at death as the materialistic theory asserts, for when nothing can be destroyed mind must be included.
Moreover, mind evidently is superior to matter, for it molds the face so that it mirrors the mind; also, we know that the particles of our bodies are constantly changing; that an entire change takes place at least once in seven years. If the materialistic theory were true, our consciousness ought also to undergo an entire change, with no memory of what preceded; so that no one could remember an event more than seven years.
We know that is not the case. We remember our whole life; the smallest incident, though forgotten in ordinary life, is vividly remembered by a drowning person; also in the trance state. Materialism takes no account of these states of subconsciousness or superconsciousness; it cannot explain them, so it ignores them, but in the face of scientific investigations which have established the verity of psychic phenomena beyond cavil, the policy of ignoring rather than disproving these alleged facts is a fatal defect in a theory which lays claim to solve the greatest problem of life: Life itself.
The materialistic theory has many more defects which render it unworthy of our acceptance; but sufficient has been said to justify us in casting it aside and turning to the other two.
The Theory of Theology One of the greatest difficulties in the doctrine of the theologians is its entire and confessed inadequacy. According to their theory that a new soul is created at each birth, myriads of souls have been created since the beginning of existence (even if that beginning goes back only 6,000 years). According to certain sects, only 144,000 are to be saved; the rest are to be tortured forever. And that is called "God's plan of salvation"; extolled as proof of God's wonderful love.
Let us suppose a wireless message is received at New York, stating that a large transatlantic liner is sinking just outside Sandy Hook; that 3,000 people are in danger of drowning. Would we hail it as a glorious plan of salvation if a small, fast motorboat were sent to their relief, and succeeded in rescuing two or three people? Certainly not. Only when some adequate means was provided to save the great majority at least would it be hailed as a plan of salvation."
The "plan of salvation" which the theologians are offering is worse than sending a motorboat to save the people on an Atlantic liner, for two or three are a larger proportion saved out of a total of 3,000 than 144,000 of all the myriads of souls created on the plan of theology. If God had really evolved that plan, it would seem to the logical mind that He cannot be good. If He cannot help Himself, He is not all-powerful. In neither case can He therefore be God. Such suppositions are, however, unthinkable as actualities, for that cannot be God's plan, and it is a gross libel to attribute it to Him.
The Doctrine of Reincarnation If we turn to the doctrine of reincarnation (rebirth in human bodies) which postulates a slow process of development carried on with unwavering persistence through repeated embodiment in human forms of increasing efficiency, whereby all beings are in time brought to a height of spirituality inconceivable to our present limited understanding, we can readily perceive its harmony with nature's methods. EVERYWHERE IN NATURE IS FOUND THIS SLOW AND PERSISTENT STRIVING FOR PERFECTION; AND NOWHERE IS FOUND A SUDDEN PROCESS OF EITHER CREATION OR DESTRUCTION ANALOGOUS TO THE PLAN WHICH THE THEOLOGIANS AND MATERIALISTS WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE.
Science recognizes the process of evolution as Nature's method of development alike for the star and the starfish, the microbe and the man. It is the progression of spirit in time, and as we look about and note evolution in our three-dimensional universe, we cannot escape the obvious fact that its path is also three-dimensional, a spiral; each loop of the spiral is a cycle, and cycle follows cycle in unbroken progression, as the loops of the spiral succeed each other, each cycle being the improved product of the preceding and the basis of progress in the succeeding cycles.
A straight line is but the extension of a point, and analogous to the theories of the materialist and the theologians. The materialistic line of existence goes from birth to death; the theologian commences the lines at a point just previous to birth and carries it into the invisible beyond at death.
There is no return. Existence thus lived would extract but a minimum of the experience from the school of life, such as might be had by one-dimensional beings incapable of broadening out or rising to sublime heights of attainment.
The Spiral Progression A two-dimensional zigzag path for the evolving life would be no better, a circle would mean a never-ending round of the same experiences. Everything in Nature has a purpose, the third dimension included. In order that we may live up to the opportunities of a three dimensional universe, the path of evolution must be a spiral. So it is. Everywhere in heaven and on earth all things are going onward, upward forever.
The modest little plant in the garden and the giant redwood of California with its forty-foot diameter alike show the spiral in the arrangement of their branches, twigs, and leaves. If we study the great vaulted arch of heaven and examine the spiral nebulae, which are worlds in the making, or the path of the solar systems, the spiral is evidently the way of progression.
We find another illustration of spiral progression in the yearly course of our planet. In the spring she emerges from her period of rest, her wintry sleep. We see the life budding everywhere. All the activities of Nature are exerted to bring forth. Time passes; the corn and the grape are ripened and harvested, and again the silence and inactivity of winter take the place of the activity of the summer; again the snowy coverlet wraps the Earth. But she will not sleep forever; she will wake again to the song of a new spring, and will then be a little farther progressed along the pathway of time.
The Law of Alternating Cycles Is it possible that a law, universal in all other realms of Nature, should be abrogated in the case of man? Shall the Earth wake each year from its wintry slumber; shall the tree and the flower live again, and man die? No, that is impossible in a universe governed by immutable law. The same law that wakes the life in the plant to new growth must wake the human being to further progress toward the goal of perfection. Therefore the doctrine of rebirth, or repeated human embodiment in gradually improving vehicles, is in perfect accord with evolution and the phenomena of Nature, when it states that birth and death follow each other in succession. It is in full harmony with the law of alternating cycles which decrees that activity and rest, ebb and flood, summer and winter, must follow each other in unbroken sequence. It is also in perfect accord with the spiral phase of the Law of Evolution when it states that each time the Spirit returns to a new birth it takes on a better body, and as man progresses in mental, moral, and spiritual attainment in consequence of the accumulated experiences of past lives he comes into an improved environment.
When we seek to solve the riddle of life and death; to find an answer that shall satisfy both head and heart as to the difference in the endowment of human beings, and give a reason for the existence of sorrow and pain; when we ask why one is reared in the lap of luxury while another receives more kicks than crusts; why one obtains a moral education, but another is taught to steal and lie; why one has the face and figure of a Venus, while another has the head of a Medusa; why one has perfect health and another never knows a moment's rest from pain; why one has the intellect of a Socrates, and another can only count "one, two, many," as do the Australian aborigines, we receive no satisfaction from the materialist or the theologian. Materialism gives the law of heredity as the reason for sickness, and in regard to economic conditions a Spencer tells us that in the animal world the law of existence is "eat, or be eaten"; in civilized society it is "cheat, or be cheated."
Accounting for Moral Proclivities Heredity accounts partly for the PHYSICAL constitution. Like begets like, so far as the FORM is concerned, but heredity does not account for the moral proclivities and mental trend, which differ in each human being. Heredity is a fact in the lower kingdoms where all the animals of a certain species look nearly alike, eat the same kind of food, and act similarly in similar circumstances, because they have no individual will, but are dominated by a common Group Spirit. In the human kingdom it is different. Each man acts differently from others. Each requires a different diet. As the years of infancy and youth pass the indwelling Ego molds its instrument so that it reflects itself in the features. Thus no two look exactly alike. Even twins who could not be distinguished in childhood grow to look different as the features of each express the thought of the Ego within.
On the moral plane a like condition prevails. Police records show that though the children of habitual criminals generally possess criminal tendencies, they invariably keep out of the courts, and in the "rogues' galleries" of Europe and America it is impossible to find both father and son. Thus criminals are the sons of honest people, and so heredity is unable to account for moral proclivities.
When we come to a consideration of the higher intellectual and artistic faculties we find that the children of a genius are mediocre and often even idiots. Cuvier's brain was the greatest brain ever weighed and analyzed by science. His five children died of paresis. The brother of Alexander the Great was an idiot, and so cases could be cited ad lib. to show that heredity only partially accounts for similarity of Form, and not at all for mental and moral conditions. The Law of Attraction, which causes musicians to congregate in concert halls, and brings about meetings of literary people because of similarity of tastes; and the Law of Consequence, which draws one who has developed criminal tendencies into association with criminals, that he may learn to do good by beholding the trouble incident to wrong-doing, account more logically than heredity for the facts of associations and character.
The theologian explains that all conditions are made by the will of God, who in His inscrutable wisdom has seen fit to make some rich and poor; some clever and others dull, etc.; that He sends trouble and trials to all, much to the many and little to a favored few, and they say we must accept our lot without murmur. But it is hard to look with love to the skies when one realizes that thence, according to divine caprice, comes all our misery, be it little or much, and the benevolent human mind revolts at the thought of a father who lavishes love, comfort, and luxury upon a few, and sends sorrow, suffering, and misery to millions. Surely there must be another solution to the problems of life than this. Is it not more reasonable to think that the theologians may have misinterpreted the Bible than to saddle such monstrous conduct upon God?
The Law of Consequence The Law of Rebirth offers a reasonable solution to all the inequalities of life, its sorrow and pains, when coupled with its companion law--the Law of Consequence--besides showing the road to emancipation.
The Law of Consequence is Nature's law of justice. It decrees that whatever a man sows, he reaps. What we are, what we have, all our good qualities are the result of our labor in the past, thence our talents. What we lack in physical, moral, or mental accomplishments is due to neglect of opportunities in the past or to lack of them, but sometime, somewhere, we shall have other chances, and retrieve the loss. As to our obligations to others or their debts to us, the Law of Consequence also takes care of that. What cannot be liquidated in one life holds over to future lives. Death does not cancel our obligations any more than moving to another city pays our debts here. The Law of Rebirth provides a new environment, but in it are our old friends, and our old enemies. We know them, too, for when we meet a person for the first time, yet feel as if we had known him all our lives, that is but the recognition of the Ego who pierces the veil of flesh and recognizes an old friend. When we meet a person who at once inspires us with fear or repugnance, it is again a message from the Ego, warning us of our old-time enemy.
The School of Life The occult teaching regarding life, which bases its solution upon the twin Laws of Consequence and Rebirth, is simply that the world about us is a school of experience; that even as we send a child to school day after day and year after year in order that it may learn more and more as it advances through the different grades from kindergarten to college, so the Ego in man, as a child of the Father, goes to the school of life, day after day. But in that larger life of the Ego, each day at school is a life on earth and the night which intervenes between two days at the child's school corresponds to the sleep of death in the larger life of the human Ego (the Spirit in man).
In a school there are many grades. The older children who have attended school many times have very different lessons from the tots in the kindergarten. So in the school of life, those in high positions, endowed with great faculties, are our Elder Brothers, and the savages are but entering the lowest class. What they are we have been, and all will in time reach a point where they will be wiser than the wisest we know. Nor should it surprise the philosopher that the powerful crush the weak; the elder children are cruel to their younger brothers at a certain stage of their growth because they have not at that time evolved the true sense of right, but as they grow they learn to protect weakness. So will the children of the larger life. Altruism is flowering more and more everywhere, and the day will come when all men will be as good and benevolent as are the greatest saints.
There is but one sin--Ignorance; and but one salvation--Applied Knowledge. All sorrow, suffering and pain are traceable to ignorance of how to act, and the school of life is as necessary to bring out our latent capabilities as is the daily school which evokes those of the child.
We are Masters of Our Destiny When we realize that this is so, life will at once take on an altogether different aspect. It does not matter then what the conditions are in which we find ourselves, the knowledge that WE have made them helps us to bear them in patience; and, best of all, the glorious feeling that we are masters of our destiny and can make the FUTURE what we will, is of itself a power. It rests with us to develop what we lack. Of course we still have the past to reckon with, and perhaps much misfortune may yet accrue from wrong deeds, but if we will cease to do evil we may look with joy to every affliction as liquidating an old score and bringing the day nearer when we shall have a clear record. It is no valid objection, that often the most upright suffer the greatest. The great intelligences who apportion to each man the amount of his past score which is to be liquidated in each life always help the man who pays the debts of his past without adding new delinquencies, by giving him as much as he can bear, to hasten the day of emancipation; and in that sense it is strictly true that "whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth."
The doctrine of rebirth is sometimes confounded with the theory of transmigration, which teaches that a human soul may incarnate in an animal. That has no foundation in Nature. Each species of animal is the emanation from a Group Spirit, which governs them FROM THE OUTSIDE, by suggestion. It functions in the Desire World; and as distance does not exist there, it can thus influence its members, no matter where located. The human Spirit, the Ego, on the other hand, enters right into a dense body; there is an individual Spirit in each person, dwelling in its instrument and guiding it FROM WITHIN. These are two entirely different stages of evolution, and it is as impossible for man to incarnate in an animal body as for a Group Spirit to take human shape.
Remembering Past Lives The question, "Why do we not remember our past existences?" is another apparent difficulty. But if we realize that we have an entirely new brain at each birth, and that the human Spirit is weak and engrossed in its new environment, so that it fails to make a full impression on the brain in the days of childhood, when it is most sensitive, it is not so surprising after all. Some children do remember the past, especially in the earliest years, and it is one of the most pathetic phases of childhood that they are so thoroughly misunderstood by their elders. When they speak of the past, they are ridiculed, and even punished for being "imaginary." If children speak of their invisible playmates, and of "seeing things," for many children are clairvoyant, they meet the same harsh treatment, and the inevitable result is that the little ones learn to keep still until they lose the faculty. Sometimes it happens, however, that the prattle of a child is listened to and results in some wonderful revelations. The writer heard of such a case a few years ago on the Pacific Coast.
A Remarkable Story A little child in Santa Barbara ran up to a gentleman by the name of Roberts on the street and called him papa, persisting that she had lived with him and another mama in a little house by a brook, and that one morning he had left the cabin and never returned. She and her mother had both died of starvation and the little one finished quaintly, "But I didn't die; I came here." The story was not told at once, or succinctly, but in the course of an afternoon, by intermittent questioning it came out. Mr. Roberts' story of an early elopement, marriage and emigration from England to Australia, of the building of a cabin by a stream with no other houses near, of leaving his wife and baby, of being arrested, denied permission to notify his wife because the officers feared a trap, of being driven to the coast at the point of a gun, of being taken to England and tried for a bank robbery committed the night he sailed for Australia, of proving his innocence; of how only then notice was taken of his persistent ravings about a wife and child who must starve to death, of the telegram sent, the search party organized and the answer that they had found but the skeletons of a woman and a child. All these things corroborated the story of the little three-year-old tot; and being shown some photographs in a casual way, she picked out the pictures of Mr. Roberts and his wife, though Mr. Roberts had altered much in the eighteen years which intervened between the tragedy and the Santa Barbara incident.
Frequency of Rebirth It must not be supposed, however, that all who pass through the gate of death reenter as quickly as that. Such a short interim would give the Ego no chance to do the important work of assimilating experiences and preparation for a new Earth-life. But a three year old child has had no experience to speak of, so it seeks a new embodiment quickly, often incarnating in the same family as before. Children often die because a change in the parents' habits has frustrated the working out of their past acts. It is then necessary to seek another chance, or they are born and die to teach the parents a needed lesson. In one case an Ego incarnated eight times in the same family for that purpose before the lesson was learned. Then it incarnated elsewhere. It was a friend of the family who acquired great merit by thus helping them.
The Law of Rebirth, where it is not modified by the Law of Consequence to such an extent as in the above cases, works according to the movement of the Sun known as the precession of the equinoxes, by which the Sun goes backward through the twelve signs of the zodiac in the so-called sidereal or world-year comprising 25,868 of our ordinary solar years.
As the passage of the Earth in her orbit around the Sun makes the climatic changes which alter our conditions according to seasons and change our activities, so the passage of the Sun through the great world-year makes still greater changes in climate and topographical conditions, in respect to civilization, and it is necessary that the Ego should learn to cope with it all.
Therefore the Ego incarnates twice in the time it takes the Sun to go through each one of the signs of the zodiac, which is about 2,100 years. There are thus normally about 1,000 years between two incarnations and, while the experiences of a man are widely different from those of a woman, the conditions are not materially different in a thousand years, so the Spirit usually incarnates alternately as a man and a woman. But that is not a hard and fast rule; it is subject to modification when such is required by the Law of Consequence.
Solution of the Riddle Thus occult science resolves the riddle of life into the Ego's quest for experience, all conditions having that purpose in view, and all being automatically determined by desert; it robs death of its terror and its sting, by placing it where it belongs, as an incident in a larger life, similar to the removal to another city for a time; it makes the parting from loved ones easier by assuring us that the very love we feel will be the means of reuniting us, and it gives us the grandest hope in life that some day we shall all obtain the knowledge which illumines all problems, links all our lives, and best of all, as taught by occult science, we have it in our own power, by application, to hasten that glorious day when faith shall be swallowed up in knowledge. Then we shall realize in a higher sense the beauty of Sir Edwin Arnold's poetic statement of the doctrine of rebirth:
Never the Spirit was born! The Spirit shall cease to be never! Never was time it was not, End and beginning are dreams. Birthless and deathless remaineth the spirit forever. Death has not touched it at all, Dead though the house of it seems.
Nay! but as one layeth A worn-out robe away. And taking another sayeth: This will I wear today, So putteth by the spirit Lightly its garment of flesh And passeth on to inherit A residence afresh.
that didnt help me but some may find comfort in this text...
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end
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 22 days
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Re: Death -- I can live with that! :p [Re: dorkus]
#4987454 - 11/27/05 07:26 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Holy shit.. I just found that I had not read your entier post.. the line quoted belove, must have caught my attention... ha-ha.. I will do it later though, I can not just throw this away, nor will I beat a dead horse, so here is just a take, expect more if wanted! 
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""What do you think happens to your specific quanta of consciousness in the moments immediately after your physical body's demise?""
So many different things? But her is one take!
Lets see now?
The ?specific quanta of consciousness?, I will in this context refer to as ?soul?.
You are incarnated here on earth, by designing your vessel in co-creation with a host, (a mom)?
The self (soul) is at birth, when first experiencing the body, operating on a different perception level, than just before, thus forgetting what happened, entangled in the play of life! Just like waking from a dream, and forgetting it all just as you recall your whereabouts ?
The self, then re-/produces the body, by letting old cells die, and dividing and/or reproducing a cell of kind, replacing the dead, as if it never died, constantly in change, yet ?the one? you see you as constantly being.
Ageing then is the alteration of you way of reproducing.
And when you are, no longer capable and/or willing to birth new cells, are more and more dead cells, yet no new, you wind up dead, as deceased?
Your soul, then used to sensing, would sense the last sensing it could, feeling familiar in that state of mind, (as a body, having forgotten the soul/astral you) usually one feel/see the contraction of the retina, thus having the outer edges go blur/absorbing, and a concentrated reflex. (Much like a bike reflex work) would appear as ?the light in the end of the tunnel??
Here anything could happen.
If you believe in reincarnation, and had a successful mission, already having planned for the next, .. one could go from the light, and right to constructing a new vessel, co-created with the host, etc? For another round of; ?experiencing knowledge as a human form.?
If you believe in star-trek, etc.. Your soul, whom would normally reside on the far moon of eron, in a Yoda style vessel, having heard of this weird mind fuck, .. wanted to go for a spin, and now that it ended, you go in to some portal of mass, surrounded by no mass, re-entering the body on the far moon of eron, which sat hibernating, ready for re-entrance?
or Maybe you meat a spiritual guide, who shows you your life, and recalibrates your lost identity as an eternal soul, ..
I could write on and on, and I probably stop writing when I was getting ready for getting to the point. Like I do so many times.. I have so much ideas, that the first, falls short to the next, and so on..
I would like it if you could ask me some questions, to narrow it down some.
? Got a lot on my heart, and it ain?t going nowhere ?? -Unknow :P
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Unagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
Loc: The Trenches of France
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
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Re: death [Re: Metasyn]
#4987517 - 11/27/05 07:44 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Death is like a cool swimming pool, by which you are hesitant to jump and enter. The experience of death is somewhat traumatizing I imagine, but like a quick splash, it subsides quickly and one enters eternity.
To me death is a perfectly natural function, like the need for water and food, etc. and all that comes with biological life - and all biological life is destined to die and return to natural cycle. A creature that lives forever does not contribute to the order of nature and only disrupts it. In this consideration, death should be embraced and I imagine most people do overtime, after the passing of a loved one. Mourning is completely natural, and as time passes people seem to naturally move on and accept the nature of things.
As for myself, I look foward to eternity. I long for it, (that being a closeness with God) and at this point the only thing seperating me from God is doorway that is physical death.
Come to think about it, when I do think about death, I become filled with hope. It's a symbol of eternity for me. I enjoy the fact that I'm going to die someday and I enjoy life. I love observing this chunk of human history that will be the late 20th and early 21st century. I want to live as old as possible to absorb as much of life as possible before finally breaking free in death, forever taking these experiences with me.
Life and Death should be a friend to all. In life there is discovery of the self. In death there is liberation of the self.
Peace
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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.
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Idiot
I Am Moron!


Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 6,554
Loc: 41.90231, 12.45390
Last seen: 7 days, 2 hours
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Quote:
i believe death as an immediate end to your being. to all that is you.
anything mystical about death is just a product of our imagination, and imagination does not have a place when thought does not function.
i agree. all those near death experiences are just figments of your imagination, the random firing of neurons. you see, hear, and feel these right be for you die, and right when you die their gone, as well as your conciseness. if your brought back from that you remember the last things you saw, felt, and heard the random firring of neurons.
-------------------- Customize your Shroomery experience! Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Edited by Idiot (11/28/05 08:23 PM)
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Re: death [Re: Idiot]
#4992171 - 11/28/05 09:49 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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im not sure exactly what happens but one thing i am sure of, that consciousness continues. and for those who think i am wrong, well if i'm wrong it won't matter.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
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Re: death [Re: Deviate]
#4993366 - 11/29/05 09:01 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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""i believe death as an immediate end to your being. to all that is you.""
being, dead...
LOL
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 22 days
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Re: death [Re: Deviate]
#4993368 - 11/29/05 09:02 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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""well if I'm wrong it won't matter. ""
ha-ha, so true..
"why try, when you in doing did not fail!?" -Unknown :P
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: death [Re: Idiot]
#5127683 - 12/31/05 10:03 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I used to think that way but I had a ghost experience and that messed up my whole world view. I still havent formulated a new one other than to think that there is more to it than simple death as an eternal end of our being or mind or perception.
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Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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ashes to ashes dust to dust
who said that?
Edit Note: I think you meant this.
Edited by JacquesCousteau (01/01/06 10:25 AM)
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Metasyn
one

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 239
Loc: PNW
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Its funny I just decided to check out the forum today and found this back on top..
An update: my mother died over the Christmas break, at 3:33pm on 12/27 to be exact. It was (obviously) a very painful thing but also (unexpectedly) very beautiful. This is the obituary I delivered at her memorial which may be interesting to read:
There was this quote by Shakespeare that Genny loved and I thought of at the moment of her death that goes something like ?there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.? As I sat by her side as she drew in her final breaths I was so overcome by the emotional and spiritual magnitude of the situation that the thoughts didn?t exist in me to label it as being happy or sad, ecstatic or horrific. It just was, and I wept intensely at the raw spiritual power of this most profound of life transitions I was witnessing. A 58 year beautiful life was coming to a close. In the moments that followed there was a lightening of the air, both in weight and luminosity, to the point that 30 minutes later as friends and relatives filtered out of the space I felt the room pregnant with her spirit. There was an almost unbearable lightness of being in which Genny vibrated a sense of relief to at last be free of her material body and joyousness to now exist in a higher dimensional realm. I saw her essence in everything around me, and it was an eternal boundless unmitigated love. It was the warmth and positivity that she expressed in her loving personality that so many of us were fortunate to have in our lives. Although we are all sad that such a beautiful person has left us, let us also rejoice that there is another side to all this? that Genny has finally made it. She has succeeded in her purpose. She has touched people deeply and she will undoubtedly continue to guide us all. Her life has come to a poignant close, and I know if she had the functioning brain to think it, she would be supremely happy.
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: death [Re: Gomp]
#5136981 - 01/03/06 11:11 PM (18 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
""i believe death as an immediate end to your being. to all that is you.""
being, dead...
LOL
How can you BE dead?
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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There is a part of us which interacts with the environment called the ego. There is yet another part which exists in the actions we have already performed. Every penny that you pick up and toss across the street becomes a part of you that will never die. Our souls, they are ever fleeting. We do not even exist, yet we are immortal.
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rogue_pixie
faerydae


Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Quote:
Unagipie said:Life and Death should be a friend to all. In life there is discovery of the self. In death there is liberation of the self.
That made me smile.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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greenlittlepill
pimp



Registered: 04/14/08
Posts: 93
Loc: vegas
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: death [Re: Deviate]
#8301004 - 04/18/08 01:27 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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WRONG.... i flatlined twice on the way to the hospital, and saw 2 angels, they told me to follow them, but then stopped me (cuz th dr's saved my life)...i know there is more after we die
-------------------- one & one
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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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The trick is to mentally die before you phsycially die, then you realise immortality
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godfather89
GnosticChristian


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 49
Loc: Long Island, NY
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: death [Re: Metasyn]
#8301586 - 04/18/08 04:22 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Its hard to what happens after we die... We can say we see the light and call it God and science will say its just a physiological response to death while a more spiritual person could say its the reaction of the body being separated from the soul or spirit. Like the esoteric axiom: As above so below, As within so without
The physical response of nerves shooting off can be from a spiritual response of letting go of the broken body.
-------------------- "What people Don't Know Will Hurt them"
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Quote:
godfather89 said: Its hard to what happens after we die... We can say we see the light and call it God and science will say its just a physiological response to death while a more spiritual person could say its the reaction of the body being separated from the soul or spirit. Like the esoteric axiom: As above so below, As within so without
The physical response of nerves shooting off can be from a spiritual response of letting go of the broken body.
Reminds me of an interview I saw last night:
[url=&q=andrew+newberg&ei=TWYJSMvJKor6-gHC45W9BA]Clickey[/url]
It is an interview with Andrew Newberg who teaches at the University of Pennsylvania Medical School. Pretty good stuff.
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ZackWyldeFan
Stranger

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 137
Last seen: 15 years, 3 days
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Re: death [Re: dorkus]
#8303845 - 04/19/08 09:12 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I beleive when A person dies in this world, a new life is born on another planet.
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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Simply id say death is the last bit of intense suffering before merging with cosmic consciousness/god/love, then being reborn on another plane/planet, probably this one.
Thats why im so on at people to consciously die while they are still alive so they can cherish life in its entirity. Helping your mum embrace death would be a beautiful thing, i can only imagine the internal fear of knowing you will actually die soon, it must be tremendous. Like i can consciously die in meditation & i fele no fear of death after as you realise the immortality of life, but i bet if a doctor told me i got 2 months left id shit myself on the spot.
Cherish all the time with your mother, my mums got leukemia and has baffled all the doctors by surviving. I sometimes forget every year could be her last.
I like the bill hicks quote in the first reply...
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The Joker
Starchild


Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 12
Loc: South Carolina
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Hello my friend,
I am very sorry to hear those sad news.
I just came back from the Amazon Rain Forest and my initiation with Ayahuasca with a Shaman. The experience really made me a very close and intimate contact to myself. Its kind of hard to explain but it really felt great. I got a small glimps what it may feels to be dead or die. Since then I really don't have such a big fear to die anymore. The experience was different compared to the mushroom, however I think its the same realm or universe you get -no matter what you use, a mushroom or something else. I think there is nothing to fear. Reading a lot of Near Death Experience Reports, I am absolutely convinced that it's great and not bad. Almost all of the accounts would like to stay dead and not get brought back into the world again. That tells a lot. And forget religion, its man made. The good news is, there is no hell - only unconditional love, thats at least how I feel about it.
-------------------- following the white rabbit...
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godfather89
GnosticChristian


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 49
Loc: Long Island, NY
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Just to say as a general rule of thumb we the world as a duality. Part of spiritual belief is that everything is connected and has a purpose and a reason, their is a oneness of being.
So that would mean that Life and Death (The duality) are two sides of the same coin and that would mean life isnt life and death isnt death. So the spiritual idea is that there is something beyond the body.
When you are alive your life maybe dead, you maybe dead to the world, like the idea of how a prostitute is a dead person, sure they maybe alive but there lifestyle is so mundane and basic that there not really living life. When your dead as part of the belief your not dead in fact what dies is this social construct called ego (What you like and dislike) more so than personality (how you act and what you think about) which in part dies but consciousness lives on.
Part of my Gnostic beliefs with this issue is that:
- Ego is illusory and is unstable and impermanent, it is death and death swallows itself up.
- The personality can either influence or be influenced by the ego. It can be an ignorant wonder or redeemed.
- The spirit which is ultimately your highest self is what is permanent and this represents consciousness it is the center of it all.
If you noticed the spirit which represents consciousness represents the awareness itself. While the personality which represents soul and Ego which represents the carnal nature need to be made aware of themselves, you need to be aware of the fact you "like this or dislike that" you need to be aware that "your acting like this or thinking about that."
So consciousness according to this belief exist and your personality can choose to exist if it wishes to be redeemed while your carnal concerns dies when your body dies.
-------------------- "What people Don't Know Will Hurt them"
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