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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Not really.
I love you redgreenvines.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,061
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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole [Re: Icelander]
#4991247 - 11/28/05 06:47 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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sheesh! men.
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VirgilKane
Miner for truth and delusion
Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: lowdown
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-------------------- Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense... "Religion is a defense against a religious experience" Carl G. Jung "So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience." Terence McKenna
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I don't think I'll ever understand you and I doubt you want me to.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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absolute zero
The Hero
Registered: 11/04/01
Posts: 796
Loc: 127.0.0.1
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole [Re: exclusive58]
#4991419 - 11/28/05 07:20 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
exclusive58 said: "Can the known, which is the mind - because the mind is known, the result of the past - can that mind seek the unknown? If I do not know reality, the unknown, how can I search for it? Surely it must come, I cannot go after it. ...When the mind is silent, when it is no longer projecting itself into the future, wishing for something, when the mind is really quiet, profoundly peaceful, the unknown comes into being. You don't have to search for it. You cannot invite it. That which you can invite is only that which you know. You cannot invite an unknown guest. You can only invite one you know. But you do not know the unknown, God, reality, or what you will. It must come."
-Jiddu Krishnamurti
I have to both agree and disagree with this quote.
If one acknowledges ignorance, one has acknowledged the unknown. In this acknowledgment, one has begun the process of defining the unknown, which has the effect of converting unknown to known. But I guess this acknowledgement comes out of the known in the first place.
Does the unknown become known when I am aware of its existence or when I experience/understand it?
I understand that there is a wealth of knowledge that can be gained with the help of psychedelic substances. I understand that my brain functions in a different way when I ingest these, yet each time, I don't know in advance what will be gained from the experience. If I dose with the intention of seeing my life and situation from a different perspective, am I not inviting the unknown?
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 21 days
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Quote:
Zero__Glass said:
If one acknowledges ignorance, one has acknowledged the unknown.
Well, what is ignorance? Doesn't this word bring to your mind a notion that is a result of past experiences, of your memory, of your thought? By "knowing" what ignorance is and by acknowledging it, you are still in the realm of what is known.
Quote:
In this acknowledgment, one has begun the process of defining the unknown, which has the effect of converting unknown to known.
As I said, ignorance still belongs to the known, and defining it is the same thing as going from the known to the known: you give a word to a thought.
You have to understand here that when we say "the unknown", it refers to the sacred, the religious, the undefinable. You can only experience it, but you can't convert it to the known, you can't correctly define it. It can only come from the inside, but not from the outside. That is why Krishnamurti says that we each be our own light, because the light comes from within.
You can be aware of the existence of this unknown, but that doesn't suffice for you to experience it. In other words, you cannot experience the unknown with the known. You have to transcend your social conditionning, your knowledge, your thoughts, your memories, which are all the results of time, to be able to experience the timeless, the eternal.
"The mind moves from the known to the known, and it cannot reach out into the unknown. You cannot think of something you do not know; it is impossible. What you think about comes out of the known, the past, whether that past be remote, or the second that has just gone by. This past is thought, shaped and conditioned by many influences, modifying itself according to circumstances and pressures, but ever remaining a process of time. Thought can only deny or assert, it cannot discover the new. " -Excerpt of K.'s Commentaries of living
I hope that answered your question?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,061
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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole - more logic of the knower and the unknowable [Re: exclusive58]
#4993260 - 11/29/05 07:56 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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this sounds like a venn diagram easy peasy...
the outlying box is the universe the expanding circle inside the universe is the known, outside the circle is the unknown.
the interface or outer rim of expansion of the circle is where the unknown is encorporated voraciously into the known.
what is beyond the interface is not yet known, and may be full of surprises but when the surprises will occur is unknowable in advance.
some of the unknown will probably be "same old same old" - so you could say, we already know some of the unknown, but which unknown is already known is unknowable.
phew!
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole [Re: Icelander]
#4997718 - 11/30/05 08:46 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have sorrowly not read all the answers, but I will redo. It surely is said there somehow that what I think of the rabbit hole. I simply think of the aware consciousness of life. That, what mostly is 'differentiating' us from the rest of life. This step of recognition, of abstractivity leads us to the entrance of the rabbit cave. It may have been there forever, but it also could have arosen with the aware conscious minds of this planet(s). To develop these means, to see where this leads, the exploration of the mind and the spiritual planes, which are interconnected, is for me the exploration of the rabbit hole.
Where this leads ? I think you can assume... (For my explorations, for example, I found it astonishing how the rabbit hole tubes of 'g*d' and 'self' can lead to one big oneness )
Edited by BlueCoyote (11/30/05 08:57 AM)
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5004677 - 12/01/05 10:16 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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expression reminds me of homer's the odyssey.. odysseus and his journey home, and all the wild trips he gets sucked into, sometimes forgetting the journey all together. i think the journey of awakening is something like that, where the new pleasures and powers and peoples can carry one away.... unless one's like that rabbit in alice n' wonderland and can't stop for 'em... but groove along to it all as you're passing on your way.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole [Re: CosmicJoke]
#5004683 - 12/01/05 10:18 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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now i meant that one for Icelander, and done gone n' quick replied once again.... oy vey!
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole [Re: CosmicJoke]
#5004918 - 12/01/05 11:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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"A lot of people experience the world with the same increduality as when a magician suddenly pulls a rabbit out of hat which has just been shown to them as empty. In the cae of the rabbit, we know the magician has tricked us. What we would like to know is just how he did it. But when it comes to the world it's somewhat different. We know that the world is not all sleight of hand and deception because here we are in it, we are part of it.Actually, we are the white rabbit being pulled out of the hat. The only difference between us and the white rabbit is that the rabbit does not realise it is taking part in the magic trick.Unlike us. We feel that we are part of something mysterious and we would like to know how it all works. P.S. As far as the white rabbit is concerened, it might be better to compare it to the whole universe. We who live here are microscopic insects existing deep down in the rabbit's fur. But philosophers are always trying to climb up the fine hairs of the fur in order to stare right into the magician's eyes."
- Sophie's World.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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Droz
Love of Life
Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole [Re: Icelander]
#5007647 - 12/02/05 05:33 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you really want to know only going down the rabbit whole, would be decisive wether or not you want to eat a higher dose of mushrooms or not, entangling your mind would be a part of destroying an epidimic, the mushroom user fights for his freedom as he uses the mushroom, when all is well we'd eat mushrooms in plane sight and then we'd have to battle, why hide when we can join ourselves in community and then eat the mushrooms alike and try to bring a likeness to eachother which will never exist for i am chaotic and those who do not follow order shall flow with me, and those who are too busy making sense of things like bringing order to the so called chaos which doesn't exist in nature.
-------------------- Evolution of Time.
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