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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,440
Loc: By The Lake
Monopoly Rules.... Capitalism.
    #496952 - 12/20/01 02:42 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

In the Microsoft battle Gates is paying out the ass in fines for having a monopoly over everyone else.

Here in California Pacific Gass and Electric laid tens of thousands of miles of electrical wire and provided a good service to the entire state for decades, then the monopoly police came in and said they have to allow competition between them and other power companies and on top of it all they have to be allowed to tap into the PG&E grid and use their wires to transfere electricity.
This created a HUGE problem in the power industry and is what was responsible for all the power problems we had this year...

Jeep almost lost the use of the word "Jeep" because at one time they had the best product and controlled the market. The government thought that all SUVs should be allowed to be called Jeeps (after the army did). They won that one..
Same thing almost happened to Q-Tip...

From railroad to agricultural to media corporations, once someone gets big enough the government steps in and says "you guys got to split up and give your competitors a break."

Is this right?


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Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Monopoly Rules.... Capitalism. [Re: GabbaDj]
    #496974 - 12/20/01 03:14 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Depends which side of the break up you're on. Being the little guy sucks, but if the system that gives you the opportunity to grow breaks you up when you do... I think it's pretty flawed.


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Fred's son

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Monopoly Rules.... Capitalism. [Re: GabbaDj]
    #497022 - 12/20/01 04:22 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

GabbaDj writes:

*** From railroad to agricultural to media corporations, once someone gets big enough the government steps in and says "you guys got to split up and give your competitors a break."

Is this right? ***

Clearly it is a violation of rights, so it is wrong. Just because a company has become big doesn't mean it has acted improperly. Similarly, just because a businessman becomes wealthy, it does not mean he is a criminal.

The one area where the whole monopoly thing gets fuzzy is in the case of semi-public utilities, such as water, natural gas, electricity, and phone service. In these cases, whoever installs the infrastructure ends up with a de facto monopoly, since pipes and wires are an essential prerequisite to delivering the product, and it makes no sense whatsoever to lay multiple sets of pipes and wires to every new location just so that Joe Consumer has a choice to connect to either ABC water company or XYZ water company.

But, now we have a situation where the utility company in question has no competition, and can charge literally whatever it wants to without fear of losing its customer base. What is the correct solution?

The solution that the American government originally chose was to regulate utility rates. Now it seems to prefer forcing the original installer to share its infrastructure. This is what happened to AT&T (Sprint and MCI get to use the lines that AT&T installed) and is now happening to CPGE.

Neither regulation nor forced sharing of infrastructure is an ideal situation, but so far no one has come up with a reasonable alternative. I'd be interested in seeing what the general opinion is here on this board:

Which is the lesser evil?

A) Government regulation of utility pricing

B) Forced sharing of infrastructure

C) Something else (please specify PRECISELY what that may be)



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Registered: 12/22/99
Posts: 356
Loc: Toronto
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Monopoly Rules.... Capitalism. [Re: GabbaDj]
    #507218 - 01/02/02 01:54 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

The ironic thing is that if you tried to created a government to compete with the Canadian or American Government they would call that a crime. The government itself is a monopoly, the biggest of all monopolies, but they're not going to ask Castro to come to the US and compete against their government.

You ever see in those old Mafia movies when guys go door to door to all the businesses and make them pay money for protection, and if they don't pay the money they'll be punished. Well that is EXACTLY what the government is doing.

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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 3,442
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Re: Monopoly Rules.... Capitalism. [Re: Buddha]
    #507317 - 01/02/02 03:18 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

That is where a government fails. You must stick by the ideals that your government has. You cannot have a partial democratic capitilist economy with government regulations, just the same as you cannot have a government regulated economy with capitilist oppurtunity's, it leads to corruption.

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Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Monopoly Rules.... Capitalism. [Re: nugsarenice]
    #507365 - 01/02/02 04:14 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly. That's why you can never win, unless you only want what's provided by your government... (basically.)

Uh oh, I'm going to do it again... :wink:

It's like in 1984. When Winston had his mind, and his free thoughts, he might have been "happy" to be "enlightened", but it caused him severe pain and stress. As soon as he lost that "mind" (or mindset), he was happy.

Simple premise, but it runs through almost everything you will experience in this world. (perhaps not pertaining to government, but is some way or another.)

The matter becomes complicated however, when you don't simply hate a government for the sake of hating the government. When you hate something that may never change, and may not even be possible to change, you are at a serious dead end. Then, contentment becomes the key to survival, to sanity. (I mean those things literally.) There are some people who are extremely sensitive to certain things... Myself being one of them to a degree. The extreme lengths that people will go to is obvious of course. There will always be those willing to take it to a higher level, no matter what the cause.)

Sorry Doobie (if you're reading this), I noticed there's a fair bit of parenthesis in there. :wink:


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