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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinekilgore_trout
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 1,607
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: The Politics of Jesus [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4957423 - 11/19/05 08:00 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

kilgore 3:12 " . . . and Jesus shiteth on the flag of the Empire, returning to the mountain top to bootlegeth more wine from water and to declare, flag in hand, "There is but one king, and you're looking at a third of it. Recognize, bitches."


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"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."

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Invisiblecateyes
 User Gallery
Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 2,754
Re: The Politics of Jesus [Re: Vvellum]
    #4957451 - 11/19/05 08:05 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
advocates of liberation theology believe Christ put forth a political/economic message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology




right on!

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: The Politics of Jesus [Re: Unagipie]
    #4957566 - 11/19/05 08:44 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendour. All this I will give you, he said, if you will bow down and worship me. Jesus said to him, Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'" -- Matthew 4:8-10

"Jesus called them together and said, You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." -- Matthew 10:42-45

"Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!" -- Acts 5:29


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: The Politics of Jesus [Re: Silversoul]
    #4957725 - 11/19/05 09:25 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

If you read my posts at all (I don't blame you if you don't...if I was somebody else I sure as hell wouldn't :smirk:) you would have noticed an occassional reference to my problems with God and the situation He has put mankind in.  I was wondering what your opinion was on the following:

How do you feel about the fact that God has made us imperfect?  How do you feel about the fact that God has made us so fickle that our thoughts and pursuits are too easily distracted from Him (almost like He set us up to fail)?  How do you feel about the fact that pure innocents (newborn children for example) have been subjected to atrocious things and why God would allow that?  Do men have a right to rise up against God?  Do they have a right to reject Him?  Do they have a right to be indifferent to Him?

How do you feel about the fact that there are many claims on what God's word is and what His will is?  How do you feel about the fact that even if God's will was known, men would pervert it anyway?

Do you concern yourself more with the Creator or more with Jesus and his example?

I urge you to go read "The Grand Inquisitor" and "Rebellion" which both are chapters out of "The Brothers Karamazov" by Dostoyevsky.  Those two passages influenced my thinking a lot.  The ideas presented in those chapters are incredibly more profound than my questions and arguments in this post.

Edited by RandalFlagg (11/19/05 09:27 PM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: The Politics of Jesus [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4957807 - 11/19/05 09:51 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
How do you feel about the fact that God has made us imperfect?



I don't see God as having "created" us in that sense. I see creation as a constant process through which we strive towards perfection. And God is immanent throughout that creative transformation. We are all aspects of God, and divine perfection is so all-encompassing that it must include non-perfection within it.

Quote:

How do you feel about the fact that God has made us so fickle that our thoughts and pursuits are too easily distracted from Him (almost like He set us up to fail)?



Again, I do not believe that God "created" us that way. God is a reality to which we have the potential to awaken.

Quote:

How do you feel about the fact that pure innocents (newborn children for example) have been subjected to atrocious things and why God would allow that?



That is a result of rejecting the love through which God is manifested. We distance ourselves from Him through our cruel treatment of one another. If we can awaken to the divine reality, we would see that every injustice against our fellow human being is an injustice against ourselves.

Quote:

Do men have a right to rise up against God? Do they have a right to reject Him? Do they have a right to be indifferent to Him?



There are many people who do just that. I think it is pointless to discuss whether or not people have a "right" to do those things. What I do believe is that those who do not believe in God can still know some aspect of God through agape, or unconditional universal love. There are those who reject that as well, and I think that doing so leads to our sense of separation from one another, which can lead to hatred, wars, etc.

Quote:

How do you feel about the fact that there are many claims on what God's word is and what His will is? How do you feel about the fact that even if God's will was known, men would pervert it anyway?



I think God is too big for one person to have a complete understanding of Him. I think the real fallacy is in assuming that there is only one correct or complete interpretation of God. Assuming that one has it all figured out feeds the ego, and can lead to that same sense of separation which distances ourselves from God.

Quote:

Do you concern yourself more with the Creator or more with Jesus and his example?



I concern myself with Christ Consciousness, as that is what I have experienced. I don't believe that I have anywhere near a complete understanding of God, nor do I believe anyone else does. But I have experienced the transformative power of Christ, and it gave me new insight into the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.

Quote:

I urge you to go read "The Grand Inquisitor" and "Rebellion" which both are chapters out of "The Brothers Karamazov" by Dostoyevsky. Those two passages influenced my thinking a lot. The ideas presented in those chapters are incredibly more profound than my questions and arguments in this post.



Duly noted. Now, I think this is getting way too much into P&S material. This thread is simply intended to be about Jesus' political views.


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: The Politics of Jesus [Re: Unagipie]
    #4958849 - 11/20/05 03:09 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Jesus was quite liberal by any standard although he was politically non-aligned. It is interesting that his most vocal followers today are quite conservative in their politics.

Quotes?

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

Separation of church and state. This is wise in that it prevents religion from becoming corrupted by politics. For a modern example, look at how so-called Christian conservatives have corrupted the message of Jesus (whom they claim to serve) through their obsession with politics. When this happens you have crazy things like Pat Robertson calling for the assassination of an international leader (Hugo Chavez).

Another Jesus quote:

"No one can serve two masters for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and look down on the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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OfflineBhairabas
Stranger

Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 889
Loc: Toronto Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: The Politics of Jesus [Re: zorbman]
    #4961631 - 11/20/05 08:27 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Jesus chose to let people be as they were regardless of political offiliation.. He was into being not doing.. He responded to malice with virtue and he never strived for greatness.. Thats what made him so great..

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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