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Offlinekilgore_trout
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 1,607
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Say something constructive [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #4957049 - 11/19/05 06:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

you're just not getting this, so let's stop derailing this thread.



helper monkeys for the disabled; it has already had pretty good results. sorry, it was the only thing that i could think of that doesn't confront an issue in a truly significant way, although this isn't bad really. I thought to maybe say something about education and taxes but have been significantly discouraged from talking about gross inequalities and their reproduction.


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"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Silversoul]
    #4958730 - 11/20/05 02:09 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Constructive suggestions? Here's one from Neal Boortz. He says it should be mandatory for every new bill signed into law which involves spending by the government to contain this clause, signed by every single legislator who voted for the bill --

Quote:

"The undersigned sponsors of the foregoing legislation do hereby state and affirm their belief that it is more important for the federal government to spend the funds necessary for the implementation of this legislation than it would be for the taxpayer who actually worked for and earned these funds to retain them for use in caring for and investing in the future of their own families."




Neal's belief is that faced with having to attest to such a thing, they'd think twice before passing some of the more ridiculous measures. The cynic in me says it wouldn't faze most of them one little bit. What do the rest of you think?




Phred


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Phred]
    #4958737 - 11/20/05 02:14 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I'd support that. Maybe then the US would not have all the tax dollars to start bogus wars abroad.


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Phred]
    #4959169 - 11/20/05 09:10 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I'd go with the cynic in you--after a few bills they'd hardly glance at it before signing.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Vvellum]
    #4960380 - 11/20/05 03:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
I'd support that. Maybe then the US would not have all the tax dollars to start bogus wars abroad.




Or the wasteful welfare services.


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Offlinekilgore_trout
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 1,607
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Redstorm]
    #4960387 - 11/20/05 03:11 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

wasteful? you've never been on welfare have you?


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"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."


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Offlinesnoopaloop53
No BetterFriend. NoWorse Friend.

Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 311
Last seen: 9 years, 6 days
Re: Say something constructive [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4960406 - 11/20/05 03:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I've never been on welfare, but then I've always been a hard worker too(I'm sure it's just a coincidence though, I was probably born into a good life and don't know it). I understand that sometimes people come on hard times, I've had friends that used it to get back on their feet but now they have their businesses started again. It is one thing if you get in a jam and get some help. Unfortunately there are too many people that are abusing the system and we just keep dumping in money and getting nothing in return.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician
Male

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Redstorm]
    #4960436 - 11/20/05 03:31 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

they should cancel all the wars and give all of america's poor $2,500 a month in cash, and house them all. They should also raise the minimum wage to $20 an hour. Lastly they should cut taxes to a third of what they are now.

They'd still have a surplus. :thumbup:


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:orly:



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Offlinesnoopaloop53
No BetterFriend. NoWorse Friend.

Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 311
Last seen: 9 years, 6 days
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4960465 - 11/20/05 03:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Why do you want to just give the poor people money? You understand why they are poor right? It's because they aren't very good with money. Maybe they can't earn any or maybe they can't manage it and hold onto it, but they are doing something over and over that is detrimental(sp?) to them being rich


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Offlinekilgore_trout
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 1,607
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Say something constructive [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #4960483 - 11/20/05 03:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

snoopaloop53 said:
Why do you want to just give the poor people money? You understand why they are poor right? It's because they aren't very good with money. Maybe they can't earn any or maybe they can't manage it and hold onto it, but they are doing something over and over that is detrimental(sp?) to them being rich




congads, thats the most ignorant thing i've heard all day.


--------------------
"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4960517 - 11/20/05 03:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
they should cancel all the wars and give all of america's poor $2,500 a month in cash, and house them all. They should also raise the minimum wage to $20 an hour. Lastly they should cut taxes to a third of what they are now.

They'd still have a surplus. :thumbup:




heh, so everyone that makes less than $2,500 a month will quit their jobs. where do i sign up?


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Offlinesnoopaloop53
No BetterFriend. NoWorse Friend.

Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 311
Last seen: 9 years, 6 days
Re: Say something constructive [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4960531 - 11/20/05 03:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You have a better theory of why the poor are poor? Is it the usual babble about corporations taking advantage of people or some other drivle like that?


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Catalysis]
    #4960547 - 11/20/05 03:54 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
heh, so everyone that makes less than $2,500 a month will quit their jobs. where do i sign up?




Yeah but then $2,500 would not be worth that much anymore and they would all have to find jobs to pay for stuff they need :crazy:


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: Say something constructive [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #4960610 - 11/20/05 04:15 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Your point about the poor not being good with money is not ignorant.

If you want social mobility in a capitalist society, there needs to be a sprinkle of socialism to allow the American Dream to happen for the poor.

To start a business you need capital, you either have it to start with, i.e not poor. Or you need to convince a lender to loan you the capital, things like not having an education are not going to help convince a lender, you may not need to know how to read or add up to do a job, but you sure as hell do if you want to run a business.

Education is so important, and if we are honest about you only get one chance at. I believe every child, especially one born into a rich capitalist society should be entitled to a decent education. Cash handouts need to be kept to a minimum. But I am all in favor of vouchers for private sector education, I don't think the state should have a monopoly on education.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4960650 - 11/20/05 04:29 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
they should cancel all the wars and give all of america's poor $2,500 a month in cash, and house them all. They should also raise the minimum wage to $20 an hour. Lastly they should cut taxes to a third of what they are now.

They'd still have a surplus. :thumbup:



I'm putting you on the top of my list of people who need to pick up an economics textbook.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Say something constructive [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #4960663 - 11/20/05 04:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

snoopaloop53 said:
You have a better theory of why the poor are poor? Is it the usual babble about corporations taking advantage of people or some other drivle like that?



Poor individuals who are smarter, more talented, or better with money than other poor people are more likely to escape poverty. However, I don't think that your average poor person is that much less intelligent or gifted than your average middle class person. Poverty a social phenomenon can not be explained by such simplistic answers. However, one of the root causes of poverty is found within the private collection of land rents, though the reasons for this require much further explanation, which I do not have time to get into.


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Redstorm]
    #4962181 - 11/20/05 10:41 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


Or the wasteful welfare services.




sure, but that depends on what exactly you consider social welfare.

I support government funding of free or low cost health clinics that would provide condoms, AIDS testings, and perhaps needle exchanges among other necessary services in areas that are rampant with disease (and where private charities that might provide such support are non-existent). I do not support handing out checks to people who can otherwise support themselves. I do support some sort of job training or education assistance instead of just handing out tax dollars.


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Offlinekilgore_trout
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 1,607
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Say something constructive [Re: Vvellum]
    #4962194 - 11/20/05 10:44 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

lets not forget "welfare for the rich"


--------------------
"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."


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