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OfflineJammer
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Joshua]
    #490876 - 12/14/01 09:28 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

It does me to. But I really dont know how technical goverment reports are suposed to be. Others suggest that it's just too sloppy and basic. I wish that we had other studys that confirmed these finds, but we dont.


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>>Jammer>>

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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 1,022
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Jammer]
    #491031 - 12/14/01 12:24 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I think I found a problem. Due to the heat needed to analize a sample with GC/MS, I think the active ingredients were broken down before they got a good reading.

GAS CHROMATOGRAPH/MASS SPECTROMETER
The Hewlett Packard gas chromatograph 5890 Series II interfaced with the Hewlett Packard 5970 series mass selective detector (MSD) and the Hewlett Packard GI800A gas chromatograph detector system (GCD) were used for the detection of the analytes. These two instruments are equivalent and samples were run on specific instruments depending upon their availability. An HP-1 12 m column (film thickness 0.33 um, column id 0.2 mm) was used for the gas chromatography (GC). "The parameters for the GCD were as follows: injection port 250?C and detector temperature 280?C. Method SCAN70-Low mass 35, high mass 425, initial temperature 70?C, ramp rate 25?C/min and final temperature (!!!!) 300?C hold for 3.0 minutes.(!!!!!)

The parameters for the MSD were as follows: injection port 265?C and detector temperature 280?C. Method SCN90-Low mass 35, high mass 400, initial temperature 90?C, ramp rate 25?C/min, and final temperature 300?C hold for 4.0 minutes. Sample volume was approximately 3 uL with the split ratio of 30:1.

Really when they had started the test the chemicals were being heated almost 3 times the boiling point of water! Even the lowest number they used was room temprature, 25?C. It said for the Gas Chromagraph the injection port was 250?C and that the dectector port was 280?C. By using the "gas" to see if there are any active chemicals I dont think that there were any chemicals left after they were through with it. I don't know alot about Gas Chromatography though.

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Offlineazurescen
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Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 261
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: blahblahblah]
    #491072 - 12/14/01 01:24 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

ryche hawk is full of shit! paul stamets never discusses ANYTHING related to psychoactive mushrooms in the united states. NEVER not even to his co-workers at fp. he never would discuss cultures especially. ask anyone who knows him. not even his old busom buddies, noone. he has way too much to lose, including his dea license to grow them. get him t0 palenque, or europe, that might be different.


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if the sign says dont pick the mushrooms, you should probably pick them

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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: azurescen]
    #491144 - 12/14/01 02:42 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

And the book "Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World" is nothing but a figment of my imagination... As well at the procedure Stamets outlines for making tea in said book. As well as the growth params in TMC...


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Study the past...
See the future...

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: blahblahblah]
    #491184 - 12/14/01 03:35 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

>I think I found a problem. Due to the heat needed to analize a
>sample with GC/MS, I think the active ingredients were
>broken down before they got a good reading.

I thought about this also. I?m not sure though how far psilocybin and psilocin are degraded through heat alone(without oxygen present).

According to the merck index. the melting temperature of both substances is around 200?C, so I?d say that they don?t degrade yet at this temperature.
Is there a chemist there?

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_chemistry.shtml

Edited by Anno (12/14/01 07:14 PM)

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OfflineJammer
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: blahblahblah]
    #491354 - 12/14/01 06:57 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Whoa! I think that you might be on to something here. Shit if they were heating up the sample that fucken much it's a wonder that the mycelum didnt just vaporise via spontanious combustion!!

It's pretty much considered a fact that heat destroys the drugs in mycelium. I have often read other people's statements debunking the notion of drying 'shrooms in an oven 'cuz the heat destroys the drugs. (same is true with drying buds) - This is why some experience 'shroomers prefer to nuke there 'shrooms on paper plates in the microwave.

I just cant believe that nobody else involved in this study had thought about this..... Does anyone get the feeling that perhaps the Goverment does NOT want to stop the magical trade? (maybe they rather have 'shroom heads than drunks in the country, but the political pressures keep it ileagle) ... just a thought.


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>>Jammer>>

Edited by Jammer (12/14/01 09:08 PM)

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Jammer]
    #491402 - 12/14/01 07:52 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I found a very interesting article on quantitative tryptamine analysis today:

http://leda.lycaeum.org/Documents/The_Mushroom_Entheogen,_The_Measure_of_the_Mushroom_by_C.B._Gold.16311.shtml

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OfflineJammer
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Anno]
    #491434 - 12/14/01 08:25 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Thats a pretty informative article. But, damm I need to go back to school! (I never studied chemestry). Can you help me out here and explain if this link that you posted speaks in anyway of heating up the mycelum to such extremely high temps in order to test for drugs within it? I mean, I did scan the article, however I dont have the patience right now to dig thru every word.

Thanks!


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>>Jammer>>

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Jammer]
    #491440 - 12/14/01 08:33 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

This article uses a different method to determine the active constituents in the mushrooms.
The tryptamines are extracted from the material with diluted acetic acid. When they are heated to 70?C for 30 minutes all of the psilocybin is converted to psilocin which is then measured using light absorbtion.

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Offlinedioze1
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: azurescen]
    #491465 - 12/14/01 08:57 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Azurescen,
Who are you? That is a very uneducated post. I guess all that talk at Telluride was just the results of a drunken stuper.
Dioze1


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Not all that wander are lost.

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Anonymous

Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Anno]
    #491600 - 12/14/01 11:29 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Nice Link ANNO!!!

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OfflineAzurepower
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: ]
    #492538 - 12/16/01 01:20 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

anno you are sooo smart dude!

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OfflineabsoluteZero
member
Registered: 10/27/01
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: blahblahblah]
    #492720 - 12/16/01 09:05 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I'm no scientist, but from what i understand, gas chromatography works by vaporizing the sample then analyzing the gasses left. Im sure a labratory funded by the government would know what to look for in the gasses.

Just my 2 cents
-zero

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OfflineJammer
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: absoluteZero]
    #493168 - 12/16/01 06:42 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

If they knew what to look for, then why didnt they find it? Every 'shroomer that I have discussed this with disputes these findings. Seriously, it almost apears as if they didnt WANT to find any drugs there..... which takes us back to my theory that perhaps they know that the fungus is a safe alternative to other "street" drugs, yet the political views of Americans lean towards keeping it ileagle.....

just a theory.


--------------------
>>Jammer>>

Edited by Jammer (12/16/01 09:53 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: absoluteZero]
    #493325 - 12/16/01 09:48 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

One of my elves - Elph - has done quite a bit of work with chromotography on magic mushrooms. Check out his findings here: Chromotography

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Invisibleblahblahblah
Mad Scientist

Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 1,022
Loc: South America
Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Jammer]
    #493790 - 12/17/01 01:16 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

There were two kinds of chromotography done, fyi. I guess the TLC (thin layer chromotography) yielded the same results? I don't know about everyone else but I just skimmed through the last part, this is what I found.

"The 22 mycelium knot samples were also analyzed by GC/MS. In the inlet system of the gas chromatograph, "thermal dephosphorylation of psilocybin occurs. As a result of this degredation of psilocybin to psilocyn, one is unable to differentiate the two by GC/MS. With this inability to differentiate psilocyn and psilocybin, it is unknown if the starting material contains psilocyn, psilocybin, or a mixture of both drugs. For this project, only a psilocyn standard was analyzed by GC/MS (Figs. 7-9). Samples were considered to be consistent with psilocyn if their retention time and mass spectral fragmentation pattern matched that of the psilocyn standard. Samples were considered to indicate psilocyn if their retention time was consistent with the psilocyn standard and contained the prominent ions, but were lacking ions in the total fragmentation pattern. Of these 22 mycelium knot samples, 12 were consistent with the psilocyn standard. Seven samples were found to indicate psilocyn, and there were three samples where psilocyn was not detected.

The 25 "pinhead" samples were also analyzed by GC/MS. Of these 25 samples, 19 were consistent with the retention time and mass spectral fragmentation pattern as psilocyn. Three samples were found to indicate psilocyn and psilocyn was not detected in 3 samples (Table 2).

Samples of the mature mushroom were also analyzed. Eleven samples were analyzed by TLC and by GC/MS. All eleven samples were consistent with the psilocyn standard spotted on the TLC plate. Of these 11 samples, 2 also indicated psilocybin in the sample. All 11 samples analyzed on the GC/MS were consistent with the psilocyn standard (Figs. 10-12).

So I guess the fuckers did know about the degration of psilocin/cybin when heated. That is what I was thinking that after the atoms of the chemicals had degraded that they would leave kind of a finger print that they had been there. Most of the samples which had chemicals found were by Thin Layer Chromatography. Which I believe doesn't use heat just a comparitive chart of colors the sample turns for different chemicals. So what does this mean? If it means that because the mycellium doesn't contain the chemicals then it isn't consider illegal then hu-rah.

I also think that this paper would prove quite usefull if you were to ever get busted growing but nothing had pinned yet. You could say something like I was doing an expirement on the speeds of colonization for the different mushrooms strains.
Someone besides PF should see about this. Mabey write to the place he allegedly got it from and find out if it is a bogus paper or not.
Hope this helps everyone.


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Anonymous

Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: blahblahblah]
    #493980 - 12/17/01 05:07 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

There is no mention of SAMPLE SIZE!!! This study could not be reproduced as written!!!!! If they did not take a sufficient quantity of mycelium to test for the goodies, there will be none in their extracts. As the mycelium matures it has a higher concentration of goodies, and the sample size needed to get positives shrinks. HOW MUCH MYCELIUM was used in the extraction to create the test samples for the pre pin mycelium?

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Anonymous

Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: ]
    #493991 - 12/17/01 05:12 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Nice link MAX!!!!

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OfflineJammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!

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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: ]
    #494962 - 12/18/01 03:19 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

So we now know that this test might of been conducted on an extremely small amount of mycelium AND extremely high tempatures that could destroy/effect the findings were used.

Man, I still say that they werent trying to find anything. I also still believe it might of been done for political reasons as well.


--------------------
>>Jammer>>

Edited by Jammer (12/18/01 03:24 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Jammer]
    #495412 - 12/18/01 10:24 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Well I am newbie and don't suppose yall will consider much I say but.....
1)This is 100% bullshit
2)They screwed up their test......i mean think about it even the best growers from what I read are not very sterile and screw up the experiement.

But think about it guys its THE MAN.......this document has to serve some purpose for them

if anything I am completely wrong but... Is it possible for mycelium to not produce psilocin until it makes pinners then it generates it in larger quantities?

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