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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Yeah, but if you put Jesus in there and he will hog the stage...
He certainly did with you.  Maybe because you didn't like the subject.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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 Re: Jesus saw the Matrix.  [Re: Icelander]
#4949112 - 11/17/05 09:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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there is as many ways to interpret the matrix as their are people to watch it. Kind of like a rorschart inkblot test or whatever. we all see something subtly different in it.
in the matrix, when you "wake up" it is too a nightmare world. To me, waking up is a joyous process.
your interpretation is interesting
i would say the buddha also saw the matrix but in a profoundly different way
or lao tzu.
If you could be any spiritual master, live their life, who would you be?
i would be lao tzu.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Moonshoe]
#4949207 - 11/17/05 09:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Absolutely lao tzu.
Like I said at the beginning I saw the matrix movie as a metaphore.
Waking up is not to the nightmare but from it IMO.
Waking up is joyful. To wake up one must sense they are asleep and find some way to jolt themselves.
That's what I was thinking about here.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
#4949815 - 11/18/05 12:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Fairness? Decency? How do you expect fairness and decency on a planet of sleeping people?"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Very good question
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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 Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician
Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Silversoul]
#4950849 - 11/18/05 08:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
Agreed. I like how Jesus saw right through the Pharisees and their faux-spirituality, and how when he looked at the Jewish laws and traditions, he saw the meaning behind them, and didn't get caught up in their literal meaning. I'd love to see what Jesus would say to Pat Robertson if he ever met him(or better yet, what Pat Robertson would say to Jesus).
Jesus would call Robertson a fucking nut, because he is. Hopefully then he would kill him.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Or at least whip him a bit and overturn his money table.  
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Veritas]
#4950969 - 11/18/05 09:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
...as long as a few remain who still keep the faith. 
Not consciously keeping the faith, but as a natural effect of interaction with the Swami persona over time and the changes and realizations and new understandings that are produced from that interaction.
 
Peace. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
#4951038 - 11/18/05 09:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think the true Jesus (not what churches made of him) was much like Neo or any wise man.
Looking for the 'true nature of total reality' behind the mirrors. Crossing the stage and looking behind is often all you need for a wake-up call.
The ignorance of the satisfied human ego is the only wall which needs to be brought down, in history, now and in the future.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Spiritual alchemy.
Re: Waking up within the matrix
Relevant quote from Vernon Howard (we're allowed to post his quotes on thisforum, right? ):
"Awareness of weakness is the same as strength."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Veritas]
#4951131 - 11/18/05 10:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I saw that today and I really like it. I was just saying to a friend in another forum One cannot always be impeccable. When you are not, admitting and accepting that makes you impeccable again.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
#4951146 - 11/18/05 10:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Indeed.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
#4952029 - 11/18/05 02:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I like The Matrix alright, but I not big on Jesus. The Matrix 2 and 3 sucked hard.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ā Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Well it's not about the matrix movie. I was using the matrix concept from the movie as a metaphor for how we all live in the culture. Invested in it but not necessarily by choice but because we are programmed to accept it as the only reality. We don't question most of our beliefs to see if they are really our personal beliefs. Maybe they are some cultural program that is so well in place that we can't see that these beliefs don't come from us. Don Juan described people in the matrix as "Phantoms" if that helps your understanding.
That's what I'm talking about, not some Hollywood movie.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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The fallacy of viewing our world in a matrix like fashion is that you speak of the matrix as being the consensual reality, but since the non-consensual reality is totally subjective, if you step out of the consensual reality you find yourself in your own subjective reality that has no validity to anyone else. You simply walk out of one matrix into another one of your own construction. I like the idea that our objecttive material reality is contructed from energy (data in the movie), but that energy is but the framework that we weave our consensual and subjective realities around. While the consensual reality may be a dream or an illusion you cannot disregard it as the rest of the species uses it as their primary medium for communications. Contact with other humans is necessary and almost unavoidable so one must work within that consensual reality. The construct pf the movie also breaks down in implying that there is an ultimate or "true" reality when there is not. There are merely many matrixs', but the red pill does not exist. What you may think is a red pill is merely the doorway to another matrix. There I gave a sensible reply.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ā Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Thanks. Whew!
This is exactly the discussion I was hoping for. If we are ready to admit to some kind of matrix then we can explore it and maybe not be so unconsciousness about it. I agree that we must work within the context of what people believe. That's where controlled folly comes in. To be in it but not of it. And if we must enter another matrix maybe it can be more expansive. Small groups of psychonauts can explore this. I just wanted to see if anyone else could see what I see. It's lonely out here. Not really. I have several friends here who believe much the same as me.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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"The fallacy of viewing our world in a matrix like fashion is that you speak of the matrix as being the consensual reality, but since the non-consensual reality is totally subjective, if you step out of the consensual reality you find yourself in your own subjective reality that has no validity to anyone else"
wow. one of the best paragraphs ever. i agree with everything you said their.
i like my own subjective matrix. thats where i go to fly, explore outerspace, walk through walls, and breath underwater. The consensual matrix is where i go about the somewhat duller but also rewarding activities of education and earning money. as well as the very rewarding experiences of inter-reality communication with other beings. friendship, true friendship, is really a miracle that we have the consensual matrix to thank for.
without this illusory zone between you and me, we could not really meet and greet. or something.
Of course, the subjective reality matrix gives us the opportunity to meet and befriend infinite facets of ourselves, which is also empowering.
all in all, id say the creator did it perfectly. He allowed us both this fantastic consensual illusion, and the means to escape it at will. couldnt ask for more.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
#4952196 - 11/18/05 03:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well most people don't realize that the world is merely a reflection of theirselves. The parts of the reflection that we share through personal agreement comprise the "matix" like consensual reality. By learning to recognize the consensual reality as a reflection of ones self gives one the ability to manipulate it to one's own end. To do this one must simply take full responsibility for one's actions.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ā Carlos Castaneda
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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"Well most people don't realize that the world is merely a reflection of theirselves. By learning to recognize the consensual reality as a reflection of ones self gives one the ability to manipulate it to one's own end"
i agree one hundred percent. but dont let skorpivo hear you say that!
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Everything I post is fiction.
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trendal
Jā
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,814
Loc: Ontario, Canada 
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Well most people don't realize that the world is merely a reflection of theirselves.
Someone once said to a great philosopher:
"What a bunch of morons they must have been, back in the middle ages, to have looked at the sunrise every morning and think that what they were seeing was the Sun going around the Earth - when any schoolboy these days knows that the Earth goes around the Sun."
To which the philosopher replied:
"Yeah....but I wonder what it would have looked like if the Sun DID go around the Earth?"
The point: it would have looked exactly the same.
We see what our knowledge tells us we are seeing. The way we see the world is, as you said, a reflection of what we are (or how we see ourselves).
(thank you, james burke)
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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