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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Gay Marriage
#4951385 - 11/18/05 12:01 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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So I got up a little while ago and checke my messages. Here is a real gem...
"I am a concerned mother of three small children calling on behalf of the national campaign to stop same sex marraiage. My greatest fear for our country is that once we've abandoned the concept of marriage as a union of a man and woman we as a nation, founded under god, will have no promcipal basis for rejecting polygamy or any other form of sexual involvment. If you agree please press 1. The Massachuesettes supreme judicial court has legalized gay marriage. Now a conclusive national battle over gay marriage has broken out. Because of this legalization of gay marriage in Massachuesettes a couple can legally marry and move to another state and still be considered a legal married couple. If you oppose the legalization of gay marriage please press one. definition is under attack in courts across the nation, and your help is needed to save it before the one man one woman definition of marriage is completely and radically redefined. if you feel we are under attack, please press 1. The stacks are so high that the battle ahead is nothing less than a civil war between the"...machine cuts off.
Thoughts?
I'm gonna try and figure out who(what party, specific person) endorsed this.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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CriminalMinded
Con Artist
Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Western Mass
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951441 - 11/18/05 12:14 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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"and your help is needed to save it before the one man one woman definition of marriage is completely and radically redefined" I don't understand this theory, do they think the world is going to turn homosexual because we legalized gay marriage.
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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No. The fear is an attack on the sanctity of the HOLY union of a man and woman. Homosexuals and their supporters are trying to detract from something that holds great importance to some.
It's like calling someone that smokes cigarettes a pothead. Or someone that drinks Natty Light a connoisseur.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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TheDudeAbides
Livin Off FrostyBarley Pops andPork Soda
Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 3,571
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951496 - 11/18/05 12:27 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
daimyo said: It's like calling someone that smokes cigarettes a pothead. Or someone that drinks Natty Light a connoisseur.
-------------------- outputrotation said: x-com and unsolved mysteries are the only things that have ever made me truly scared
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CriminalMinded
Con Artist
Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Western Mass
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951504 - 11/18/05 12:30 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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So your saying homosexuals are below us?
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idiotek
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 40,728
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951510 - 11/18/05 12:31 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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it all seems to me like a bunch of religious hootenanny!
i'll bet that a majority of those people also support mandating the teaching of "intelligent design" or "creationism" in schools.
i love how she said "founded under god". what a moron.
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Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951560 - 11/18/05 12:44 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I support gay marriage 100% the problem with america is alot of people do not mind their own damn business. who cares if two individuals want to be married?
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Quote:
CriminalMinded said: So your saying homosexuals are below us?
I'm not saying anything. Just relaying a very interesting message I had today.
But I do feel that marriage is something that should be defined and regulated by the church. Anything done outside of the church is a civil union. Man:Woman or queer.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: idiotek]
#4951593 - 11/18/05 12:50 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
idiotek said: i love how she said "founded under god". what a moron.
So you consider people with religious convictions morons? That is not very kind.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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CriminalMinded
Con Artist
Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Western Mass
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951623 - 11/18/05 12:57 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh, that's what I thought you meant by the Natty Light/connoisseur comment.
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951669 - 11/18/05 01:07 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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haha the sanctity of marriage. Hell you think people take it as a sanctomonious event anymore you can go to Vegas and get married in 20 minutes or your money back. Not everyone follows the same moral path.
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951671 - 11/18/05 01:08 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
daimyo said:
Quote:
idiotek said: i love how she said "founded under god". what a moron.
So you consider people with religious convictions morons? That is not very kind.
Jihadis?
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said: haha the sanctity of marriage. Hell you think people take it as a sanctomonious event anymore you can go to Vegas and get married in 20 minutes or your money back.
Is that a valid reason to allow further degradation or a call to arms for those who recognize the sanctity?
Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said: Not everyone follows the same moral path.
Not everyone get into Heaven
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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kaniz
That one, overthere.
Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 4,166
Loc: Ontario
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Quote:
But I do feel that marriage is something that should be defined and regulated by the church. Anything done outside of the church is a civil union. Man:Woman or queer.
I have a few opnions on this issue.
In your case of 'well, let them just get civil unions' - I'd say
Personnaly, I think that "law" should be left out of marriage. Leave it as a symbolic union between two people - remove ANY form of goverment,law,benifits,etc from it. All it is, is a symbolic union - and if the church feels to remain close minded and in the dark ages about it, leave it as "man and wife". However, simply getting "married" wont get you any of the current benifits/laws/tax's/blah/blah/blah that comes along with it.
Right now, when you get married - there are a whole lot of protections, laws, regulations that come into play. The problem with having this be tied in with marriage is that - where gay marriage is not legal, they are in effect - denied these things.
Then - move all of the current "legal aspects" of marriage into a Civil Union - which IMO, should be limited to "two people, of legal consenting age - regardless of gender"
so man/man, man/women, women/women, tranny-man/tranny-women, whatever - simply two people who wish to join lives, and start a life together - and leave this as a goverment affair. Leave church and religion out of this.
Now, if the people doing this still feel like throwing the whole traditional marriage seremony - then they are free to do it. As they still have every right to celeberate their union together.
----------------------------
And then, opnion #2
- Simply make gay marriage legal. however. Leave it upto the individual church/priest to decide if they want to marry the two people or not. If for whatever reason a priest feels gay marriage is wrong, and does not want to rent out his church/do the ceremony for it - he should have every right to say no, and not fear legal consequence for his actions. There are LOADS of priests and churches that are willing to perform gay marriages - go find one that is willing. ---
So, in short. Either
a: Remove all 'legal' aspects of marriage, and move them pretty much word for word over to Civil Union, grandfather all current marriages to this status so no need for current couples to re-apply for their marriage lisence.
b: Legalize it, however give churches the legal protection to 'deny' marrying a couple because they are gay (ie: cant get sued for it). I've seen churches deny marriage on more trivial grounds then sexuality before. However, when going to a justice of the peace/whatever, they cant deny you the marriage based on sexuality.
and really, if your priest doesnt want to do a gay marriage - would you really want him as your priest anyways?
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lowdominion
Stranger
Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 2,440
Loc: new england
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951739 - 11/18/05 01:19 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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who would want to go to heaven anyway? No booze, No drugs, No sex and i bet they play Creed 24/7. I would take Hell any day over that
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: kaniz]
#4951756 - 11/18/05 01:23 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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There should be no benefits, except for the hospital visitation thing, for marriage or unions. Being with the person you love in an ever lasting bond should be enough.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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idiotek
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 40,728
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951793 - 11/18/05 01:31 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, I consider people with religious convictions that assume that the entire nation they live in should have the same ones to be morons.
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Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951803 - 11/18/05 01:36 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Is that a valid reason to allow further degradation or a call to arms for those who recognize the sanctity?
Straight marriage is already is trouble - and this has nothing to do with gay people wanting to be together through marriage. Divorce rates are skyhigh.
Why do you assume that gay marriage is a "degradation" of the institution of marriage? Why is the act of solidifying and ritually/legally recognizing love such a bad thing? In this day and age of divorce, I think we need more people loving each other in healthy, monogamous relationships.
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lid
Insert TitleHere
Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 563
Loc: People's Republic of New ...
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: idiotek]
#4951865 - 11/18/05 01:52 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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the word "god" should be removed from currency, the pledge of allegiance, and from every single court and government institution in this country. We got along fine for 177 years without it.
Let gays get married, there is nothing wrong with it, anybody who says that it is is basing it completely off of religious bias. This is bull shit and childish.
I think all these fanatic christians in this damn country should be forced to live somewhere they are the minority, and deal with extreme prejudice against their way of life. That way they can feel like the all gay people they persecute here in the US.
The whole anti-gay thing makes me sick.
-------------------- molon labe.
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idiotek
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 40,728
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: lid]
#4951914 - 11/18/05 02:05 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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i've never understood fanatical christians. if they'd actually pick up their bibles and read the shit that Jesus actually said.. they'd realize that we should all just get the fuck over what we think others should be and accept and love them for who they already are.
that includes people who don't believe what they do.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4951992 - 11/18/05 02:25 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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All these anti-gay marriage people talk about it opening the door for polygamy. Am I the only one who sees nothing wrong with this? I don't care how many spouses you have or what their gender is, as long as you don't go prying into my private life either.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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You're not the only one.
Let's hear it for love, in whatever package it chooses to appear.
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Bhairabas
Stranger
Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 889
Loc: Toronto Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Veritas]
#4952036 - 11/18/05 02:36 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Jundge not and ye shal not be judged..
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VoidOfsPg
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 4,899
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Bhairabas]
#4952160 - 11/18/05 03:09 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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First off let me state that I personally dont agree with gay marriage.
HOWEVER, with the way our country is set up with the certain rights alloted to people, I think gay marriage should be allowed. It all falls back to the religious thing. And with that, there should be a seperation of church and government. When religious beliefs and government are put together, thats when there will be conflict. Again, I don't agree with gay marriage, but in a country that has "seperation of church and state" ...religion should NOT stop something like homosexuals getting married.
Besides, I don't want my kids (when I have some) reading a book in school and seeing two guys holding hands and think it's okay. I don't want them to think it's okay for them to be homosexual.
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Vvellum]
#4952235 - 11/18/05 03:24 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said: Why do you assume that gay marriage is a "degradation" of the institution of marriage?
Never said I did. I am making the case of those that do.
IMO, marriage is a waste. But for those that believe in it as a union of man and woman under the auspices of their lord, I don't think that they should have someone elses way forced on them.
If gays/lesbians want to have a union that is fine. Just don't call it a marriage. It is not their word to pervert.
Quote:
bi0 said: Why is the act of solidifying and ritually/legally recognizing love such a bad thing?
Never said it was. The whole idea means nothing to me personally.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4952248 - 11/18/05 03:26 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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If these people stop listening to crazy Pat Robertson, their lives would be a lot better.....
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: lid]
#4952253 - 11/18/05 03:26 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
lid said: the word "god" should be removed from currency, the pledge of allegiance, and from every single court and government institution in this country.
Fine by me.
Quote:
lid said: Let gays get married, there is nothing wrong with it
Union. Not marriage.
Quote:
lid said: anybody who says that it is is basing it completely off of religious bias. This is bull shit and childish.
Yea, because religion is bullshit and childish
Quote:
lid said: I think all these fanatic christians in this damn country should be forced to live somewhere they are the minority, and deal with extreme prejudice against their way of life. That way they can feel like the all gay people they persecute here in the US.
You think they don't? The only people who like the fanatics are the fanatics. No matter what the group. And wishin prejudice on one group but not the other...that my friend is childish.
Quote:
lid said: The whole anti-gay thing makes me sick.
Does that make you better than the ones who get sick from the whole gay thing?
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: idiotek]
#4952257 - 11/18/05 03:28 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
idiotek said: i've never understood fanatical christians. if they'd actually pick up their bibles and read the shit that Jesus actually said.. they'd realize that we should all just get the fuck over what we think others should be and accept and love them for who they already are.
that includes people who don't believe what they do.
I knew someone could make a point without resorting to bashing another group.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Quote:
Paradigm said: All these anti-gay marriage people talk about it opening the door for polygamy. Am I the only one who sees nothing wrong with this? I don't care how many spouses you have or what their gender is, as long as you don't go prying into my private life either.
Agreed.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Quote:
Paradigm said: All these anti-gay marriage people talk about it opening the door for polygamy. Am I the only one who sees nothing wrong with this? I don't care how many spouses you have or what their gender is, as long as you don't go prying into my private life either.
I don't either, to be frank. Anyone damned foolish enough to want more than one woman deserves what they get - I.E. an early grave.....
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KidgardFromSRQ
Strange
Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: VoidOfsPg]
#4952289 - 11/18/05 03:35 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Think hard on this one, judiasm, christianity, and islam all forbid sodomy. homosexuality is sodomy. so, when we say one nation under god, and yet we say we approve of sodomy being holy. which is what asking to be married is, it is a holy ritual.
now, i don't see what's wrong with a civil union. Civil Union Definition: a legally recognized and voluntary union of adult parties of the same sex
but it is invading another mans belief to try and get them to be recognized as married. and america was founded on being able to have your own religion. it is the gays that are pushing theyre way wrongfully. america is found on religion before it is on every civil right.
and america has changed alot since it became a country. this political correctness has gone too far if you ask me. everyone is trying to make exceptiosn for everything and have things theyre way, yet at the same time another persons beliefs are being repressed. so really, everyones rights are being repressed when there is controversy like this.
so, it's simple. if you can accept the fact that america was founded on god; and you don't like it, then, get out. It's nothing too personal, but that's just the way it is. There are other places in the world that accept gay marriages. But America does not, and we are based on religion. So don't try to change it, because that's anti-american in it's own way.
P.S. Alot of you will likely think I'm wrong, but that's the way it is. I could have worded it better, but I'm not writing an essay. So /flame off.
-------------------- Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.
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idiotek
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 40,728
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4952304 - 11/18/05 03:36 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why would gays being married be a perversion of the word? I would think that the aforementioned divorce rates in this country would alone be a much bigger dent in the "sanctity" of marriage than having homosexuals marrying one another.
You can't say that it's "their" word. Last time I checked, there was no trademark or copyright on it.
Because someone believes that marriage should be between men & women only does not mean that if homosexuals were married it would suddenly force it in their faces. If they care so much to get themselves involved, they're putting their own faces into it.. not the other way around.
Live and let live and things like this won't happen.
It seems to me that the only reason gays care so much is because they want government recognition and the same rights as legally married people. That sounds fair to me, considering they pay taxes just like everyone else.
btw.. you keep pushing this subject on and whenever someone disagrees with you it's suddenly "you don't care" or you are completely indifferent. Yet you consistently support the anti-gay view on the matter. Are you a closet homophobe? Seriously. If you're going to argue on behalf of a cause that you care nothing about.. argue both sides.
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Bhairabas
Stranger
Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 889
Loc: Toronto Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: idiotek]
#4952370 - 11/18/05 03:50 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think god decides these things not us.. It's possible that right and wrong are concepts we created not god..
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: idiotek]
#4952422 - 11/18/05 04:08 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
idiotek said: Why would gays being married be a perversion of the word?
Because marriage is man:woman. Nothing else. By trying to change it the gays are perverting the word.
Quote:
idiotek said: I would think that the aforementioned divorce rates in this country would alone be a much bigger dent in the "sanctity" of marriage than having homosexuals marrying one another.
Divorce is terrible. If people too marriage seriously, say as a holy union, instead of looking at it as a way to get benefits it would be better off. Divorce rates are not any reason to allow gays to use the word marriage to represent their union.
Quote:
idiotek said: You can't say that it's "their" word. Last time I checked, there was no trademark or copyright on it.
When was the last time you checked?
Quote:
idiotek said: Because someone believes that marriage should be between men & women only does not mean that if homosexuals were married it would suddenly force it in their faces.
Are you thinking before you type? Or just spouting PC talking points? That's like saying if the Supreme Court outlawed abortion it wouldn't be forcing it in the faces of those who believe in choice.
Quote:
idiotek said: It seems to me that the only reason gays care so much is because they want government recognition and the same rights as legally married people. That sounds fair to me, considering they pay taxes just like everyone else.
Give them the rights under union. Just don't call it marriage.
Quote:
idiotek said: btw.. you keep pushing this subject on and whenever someone disagrees with you it's suddenly "you don't care" or you are completely indifferent. Yet you consistently support the anti-gay view on the matter. Are you a closet homophobe? Seriously. If you're going to argue on behalf of a cause that you care nothing about.. argue both sides.
I don't care if gays have legal unions with benefits. I don't care about marriage. I DO care however that a minority group is attempting to push their way into the lives of a religious ceremony and the government may endorse it.
Furthermore, I think any unions done outside of church should be called a union and not a marriage. All can have benefits, but do not pervert the word.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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I'm glad someone else understands this position.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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idiotek
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 40,728
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: daimyo]
#4952483 - 11/18/05 04:30 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Of course I think before I type, but obviously you don't really process the things you read because you regurgitated your own arguments instead of considering mine and forming responses to them. I didn't see anything new in that post, just the same stuff you posted earlier. Get some new material instead of injecting facetious cop-outs into a legitimate debate.
PC or not, you're not helping yourself look any less homophobic. Do you believe that homosexuals are immoral in the eyes of God, assuming you believe in God? People who aren't the least bit religious get married all the time. Should they be allowed to do so? I suppose because they are male and female it doesn't matter.. but if you're going to take a dogmatic approach to it you can't discount those who don't believe.
Also, comparing abortion to gay marriage is incredibly small-minded and the two are completely different subjects with equally differing moral values involved.
If two gay people get married, it does not involve anyone other than those two people & the people involved with the ceremony. As long as everyone is consenting and has no qualms, why would it be an issue with any 3rd party? The government's endorsement of their "marriage" only involves tax purposes anyway.
Entry Word: marriage Function: noun Text: 1 a union representing a special kind of social and legal partnership between two people <some religions consider marriage a sacrament> Synonyms match, matrimony, wedlock
Hmm.. thesaurus says that marriage is synonymous with union. What's the fucking difference?! Just some silly religous connotations.
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: Gay Marriage [Re: idiotek]
#4952507 - 11/18/05 04:40 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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gay marriage = good.
Those people would have their chastity belts all up in a bundle if the gays tried to outlaw straight marriage.....
Stop the discrimination you intolerant whackos... Jesus told you to go love your neighbor.....
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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