Quote:

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MOD EDIT: thoroughly researched, of potentially high interest, 1.500+ views/150+ posts and independent verification required: stickied for now. Please note that independent reports are far more important than academic discussion at this point.

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*** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor ***

*** The Gummiberry ? juice experiment *** -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney's_Adventures_of_the_Gummi_Bears - 1985
"The Gummi Bears gained their ability to bounce by drinking  Gummyberry Juice. If the juice was consumed by humans, they would (temporarily) gain superhuman strength (however it would only work once a day) and for this reason, the bears kept the recipe secret."

Ayahuasca 1) an Amazonian giant vine native to the rainforest, generally Banisteriopsis caapi, and, by extension, 2) pharmacologically complex infusions prepared from it for shamanic, folk-medicinal, and quasi-religious purposes.  Sections of vine are boiled alone or with leaves from any of a large number of other plants, including Psychotria viridis (chakruna in Quechua) or Diplopterys cabrerana, yielding a brew containing the powerful entheogenic alkaloid N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), combined with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (or MAOI).


*** Gummihuasca ? : psilocybin potentiation with a MAO-A Inhibitor + psilocin accelerator = 10X Potency ***



Try this ONLY if it *IS* LEGAL for you to try this. I don't take any responsabilities for this. This MIGHT have unexpected effects. PLEASE be VERY careful about this. If you have got ANY mental/health issues, please do NOT get involved in such a test.  If you are on medication please DO NOT try this! This is a serious warning. Under NO circumstances mix MAOIs (Black Currant juice) with any other drugs, specially MDMA [Extacy, pills], MDE, MDA, Cocaine, Crack. Please, be responsible, this HASN'T been properly tested yet to conclude it is totally safe. If you test it, be conscious and totally aware that you ARE taking a risk.



DANGEROUS COMBINATIONS!!
READ THIS!! VERY IMPORTANT. IGNORING THIS WHOLE FIRST POST COULD LEAD TO SERIOUS MEDICAL PROBLEMS (like death...)

Please, make sure you read this whole post before attempting anything or deciding to take part on this test. At least two experienced trippers have reported this as his strongest trip ever.

Those considering self-induced exploration should be aware of its complications and make an informed decision. The restrictions here delineated are not meant to be all-encompassing but, rather, are meant to provide general guidelines. Further questions should be directed to your physician.

Keep in mind that I'm *NO EXPERT* whatsoever. Only a curious guy interested in exploring the amazing realms of Consciousness. Like you.

Credit for initial discovery of lemon/lime juice as an enhancer of the strength that lead me to research further possibilities goes to Underhillmaster. He is experienced for more than 20 years and 100 trips and did trials on 20 acquaintances for 6 months and the responses were uniform.

** FIRST REPORT by incubaby_421 - Confirms 10X expectations **
Further reports will be pasted at the end of this first post.

incubaby_421 has been the first person to test this.
He is an experienced tripper, 250-300 trips.

=============================================================================
yes, it did work that AMAZINGLY WELL...
when i posted wow and the weird bird thing, i proceeded to melt into my computer monitor, wall paper flowers were growing, carpet was turnign into worms, im talking about fear and loathing shit, NEVER in my history of being bemushroomed have i hallucinated like that, NEVER
anyways


- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: +250 trips
- Days since last trip on psychedelics:
- Black Currant Juice brand: CurrantC
- What reads the concentration on the label?: 37% concentrate
- Juice Quantity: 16 oz.
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 4 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop thrice before.
- Hours since last meal: 7 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): N
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Y
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice:umm... these are relativly potent shrooms, but, god damn, that was more like 6 hits of acid than an eighth of shrooms
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: i have never done shrooms with only lemon or lime, but i did this time, plus the juice, id say that 10x would be a pretty accurate multiplication of the effects... at one point in time i went across the dark house to get some rainbow sherbert, the darkness was just one big ass hyallucination... amazing...
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): yes
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 45 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 60 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 4! hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4 1/4 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience: I just want to say this is by far the hardest i have ever tripped off of anyhting, newbies BE CAREFULL, i have been there, ive ate ounces that didnt do that much before, this could definitly take someone to a very bad place

=============================================================================
dingleberrysalad's report on Lemon/lime Juice:

I agree 100%! I tried this method out for the second time on friday and it kicked my ass again! It was totaly amazing! I will problably never eat a full eight of shrooms again in my life because there is no need for it! If there is anyone out there who hasn't tried this yet, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU WAITING FOR!

I took one lemon and one lime and juiced them and mixed well with only 1.7 grams of dried shroom powder and let it sit for 5 minutes and then drank it. I normaly take 3.5 grams of shrooms, but with only 1.7 grams and 1lemon and lime I had the most vivid visuals I have ever seen!!! I was laying on my trampoline after smokein a bowl topped with kief and staring at the stars. The whole sky was covered with a hallucination of red, yellow, and orange all swirling and twisting together and the stars were twinkling through. I have never seen an open eye visual that amazing and vivid and real! And from only 1.7 grams! It blew my mind.
This really works people so be carefull. You could end up tripping hard than you even imagined possible!
=====================================================================================================

GUMMIHUASCA ? recipe with Gummiberry ? Juice without vomiting nor nausea in 7 easy and gummimagic STEPS:



STEP 1 - Brain, 1. Common sense, 1. Read the whole post, >=2.

Ideally the best is to get pure juice from fresh black currants, 275 ml.
Else, nectar concentrate, sometimes called squash, cordial or syrup can do.
Black Currant juice based on 4-6% or 22% concentrate doesn't suit, as more than 4 liters (128 oz, 1 gal.) or 1.25 liters for 22% would have to be drank.
Nectar concentrate has the highest concentration of juice, usually 35%. Check the label.

Get 1 liter bottle of Ribena Really Light Blackcurrant Squash.
Label: "Product before dilution contains 35% juice."




Apparently this brand is only sold in 22 countries, including: Caribbean, UK, Eire, Denmark, Greece, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Yemen, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand, Kenya, Nigeria, Mauritius, China, Hong Kong, Japan.

ANY Black Currant Juice brand should work. The difference is the concentration of pure juice. If you cannot find the following ones in your country, check the labels and look for the most concentrated one.

Member incubaby_421 is the first person to have tested it, and he has found this brand, CurrantC concentrate, to be successful, available in the USA, sold at Tops:





Store locator:
http://www.currantc.com/index.php?submenu=WhereToBuy&src=directory&view=RetailLocater
incubaby_421: "couldnt find suggested brands, so i bought the only one i found, after traveling to three different cities in search of, its called CurrantC, its a 16oz. bottle and is 37% juice, pretty fucking tasty, i might add..."

Also sold in your local:

- Tops
- P&C Food Stores
- Big M Market
- BiLo

Store locator for Tops:
http://www.topsmarkets.com/shareddev/Tops_Store_Locator/Locator.cfm

Store locator for P&C Food Stores:
http://www.pandcfoods.com/StoreLocator/Store_S.las?

Store locator for BiLo:
http://www.bilofoods.com/StoreLocator/Store_S.las

Other retailers:
http://www.maplelane.com/pages/BlackCurrants.html
http://www.pricechopper.com/StoreLocator/Store_S.las

Online retailers:
http://www.naturesflavors.com/product_info.php?cPath=&products_id=4430

STEP 2 - Empty stomach, at least 8 hours before intake, 12 h. better, ideally 24h. It *IS* very important to have an empty stomach, AT LEAST 8 hours before intake, as some food combinations might be dangerous with MAOIs and, in rare cases, even might be fatal. Please read on the whole post.

STEP 3 -

Ideally, this should be tested with pure juice from freshly squeezed black currants. You need to drink 275 gr. of pure juice, roughly 7 oz.

Else, you can use a strong concentrate, 35% is the highest one found until now (Ribena Squash brand).

50 gr. of 5.5X concentrate used in the Patent equals = 275 gr. of Pure juice. Do your math for your chosen brand of juice.
To get 275 gr. of Pure juice, diluted 35% (Ribena brand) we need:

350 gr. pure per 1000 gr.
275 gr. pure -> (1000*275)/350 = 785 gr. of concentrate. Let's roughly assume 1 gr. = 1 ml.

Drink the 785ml. of Black Currant 37% concentrated juice. (= 3/4 of a liter = 25 oz.). It is preferable to not have drank water within 1:30 hour prior to dosing as water affects the pH.

STEP 4 - Wait for 1 hour. Do not eat or drink any water during this 1 hour waiting.

STEP 5 - If you want to test this with lemon/lime juice too:

- Put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you get a fine powder, either dry or fresh mushrooms.If you haven't got a coffee grinder handy, you can at least try to smash them as much as possible, inside a plastic bag for instance.

- Squeeze 1 lemon and 1 lime, or 2 lemons, or use some lemon/lime concentrate, but do not add water, to keep the acidity.

- Leave the mushrooms soaking in the lemon/lime juice for the last 10-15 minutes of that 1 hour waiting after you drank your Black Currant juice.

- If you haven't got lemon/lime handy, you can do the same but soaking in Black Currant juice concentrate (the pH of normal 6% juice might not be acidic enough, as it's mixed with water), as it is highly acidic as lemon.

Since heat speeds up chemical reactions, it's easy to assume lack of heat would slow them down. So do NOT refridgerate your juice or fresh fruit if you're going to try this method. Or at least take them out of the fridge a few hours in advance so they have time to reach room temperature.

STEP 6 - Eat the mushrooms (or drink the lemon/lime or Black Currant juice mixed with the mushrooms).
After 1-1:30 hours a light snack and fluids can be taken to dilute the acidic stomach contents, for instance a glass of milk or a sandwich with a glass of water.

STEP 7 - Relax. Breathe. Turn off. Tune in. Drop out. Enjoy. Write report filling the standard template below.


=========================================================

Please report like this, for instance:

- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: I have been tripping on mushrooms for 5 years. Around 20-30 trips. 15 LSD trips.
- Days since last trip on psychedelics: 8 weeks ago, 1 hit LSD. 6 weeks ago, 4 gr. dry Psilocybe Cubensis
- Black Currant Juice brand: Really Light Blackcurrant Squash
- What reads the concentration on the label?: "Product before dilution contains 35% juice."
- Juice Quantity: 750 ml. = 25 oz.(if we assume 1 oz. = 30 ml. = 30 cc.)
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 3 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop twice before.
- Hours since last meal: 12 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): Yes
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, for 10 minutes, squeezed 1 lemon and 1 lime.
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice:
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice:
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N):
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X
- Estimated total potency: 6X-10X
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 20 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 45 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 2 hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 5 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience:

=========================================================



EXPLANATION

Background Data
Black Currants are the king of berries with more than twice the antioxidants of blueberries, 4 times the Vitamin C of oranges, more potassium than bananas, and a cache of iron, calcium, magnesium and manganese...

- Psilocybin          - pH 5.2 - http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/psilocybin.html
- Psilocybin breaks down in the body to form Psilocin (the good stuff).
- Psilocin is unstable in solutions, ESPECIALLY alkaline (Base)ones.
- Psilocin is obtained by dephosphorylation (bonding of Phosphate) of psilocybin under strongly acidic or alkaline conditions.
- Acidic foods are retained in the stomach for a longer period than non-acidic foods
- In a solution when the pH is changed to acidic, the alkaloids will dissolve in water in a salt form.



WHY IT WORKS

1 - The work hypothesis is that fruit juices would break down psilocybin into psilocin when the mushrooms are soaked in the juice for some time before eating them:

Water - pH 7.00
Orange juice - pH 3.30-4.19
Prune juice - pH 3.95-3.97
Plum Nectar - pH 3.45
Apple juice - pH 3.35-4.00
Kiwi juice - pH 3.30-3.80
Pineapple juice - pH 3.30-3.60
Grapefruit juice - pH 2.90-3.25
Pomegranate - pH 2.93-3.20
Vinegar            - pH 2.40-3.40
Black Currant juice - pH ~2.7 - with Pectinex BE-3L Enzyme: 2.45
Cranberry juice    - pH 2.30-2.52
Lemon juice        - pH 2.00-2.60
Lime juice          - pH 2.00-2.35

FLUIDS - ACID STANDARDS
Ascorbic acid 5% pH 2.0 (MERCK)
0.1N Citric acid 2% pH 2.2 (MERCK)
0.1N Tartaric acid 1.5% pH 2.2 (MERCK)
0.1N Ascorbic acid 1.75% pH 2.3 (MERCK)
0.1N Acetic acid 0.6% pH 2.9 (MERCK)

pH of Foods: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/lacf-phs.html

pH of BC: www.vtt.fi/virtual/maxfun/buchert_et_al.pdf

Vitamin C  (L-enantiomer of ascorbic acid) per 100 gr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C

Billygoat plum 3150
Camu Camu 2800
Tibetan Goji berry 2500
Rosehip 2000
Blackcurrant 200
Guava 100
Kiwifruit 90
Loganberry 80
Redcurrant 80
Papaya 60
Strawberry 50
Orange 50
Raspberry 30
Lemon 40
Lime    20
Raspberry 20
Pineapple 10
Grape 10
Apple 6
Bilberry 1

Manninee:
There are several different ways that ascorbic acid/vit c and the chemicals in fruit juices might enhance the passage and/or activation of psilocybin:

(i) The Vitamin C transporter molecules in gut cells: People know that ascorbic acid is transported 'actively' in the gut (ie - by cellular machinery... specialised proteins) but as I understand, nobody has yet identified these molecules in gut, although they have been found elsewhere in the body. Many transporter molecules absorb more than one molecule simultaneously, and some chemicals enhance the absorbtion of others. Maybe Psilocybin and Vitamin C are co-transported, with the ascorbic acid facilitating the uptake of psilocybin?

(ii) The ascorbic acid functionally interferes with the detoxifying enzymes - Monoamine Oxidases and the family known as cytochrome P450. Citrus flavonoids enhance the absorbtion of vitamin C as well as blocking some aspects of the P450 enzymes (many health food chains sell Vit C/Flavonoid combination pills). These enzymes are in gut cells, the liver and elsewhere.

(iii) The other mechanism for prolongation could be the anti-oxidative properties of vitamin c interfering with the dephosphorylation of psilocybin to psilocin somehow - possibly making it a more gradual process.

Which would yield higher contents of psilocin ready to be ingested.

2 - ...and a MAGIC hidden secret gummicompound: Quercetin and Quercitrin, responsible for the MAO-A inhibition, present also in ST. JOHN?S WORT, the popular Hypericum and GINKGO BILOBA. This might lead to further experiments with Mushrooms + St. John's Wort tea, Ginkgo Biloba, ascorbic acid and other juices. Stay tuned.

Consumption of black currants, lingonberries and bilberries increases serum quercetin concentrations
European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2003) 57, 37-42. doi:10.1038/sj.ejcn.1601513
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v57/n1/abs/1601513a.html

Chemtech June 93 page 63: 50 grams of black currant juice concentrated 5.5 times inhibits 92% of MAO action (ref European patent application 0531155)
PATENT: Cerebral-Activating Compositions
http://register.epoline.org/espacenet/regviewer?AP=EP19920308053&PN=&CY=ep&LG=en&DB=REG

QUERCETIN is also the most POTENT bioflavonoid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin

Quercetin is a flavonoid that forms the "backbone" for many other flavonoids, including the citrus flavonoids rutin, hesperidin, naringin and tangeritin. Quercetin is found to be the most active of the flavonoids in studies, and many medicinal plants owe much of their activity to their high quercetin content. Quercetin has demonstrated significant anti-inflammatory activity because of direct inhibition of several initial processes of inflammation. For example, it inhibits both the manufacture and release of histamine and other allergic/inflammatory mediators. In addition, it exerts potent antioxidant activity and vitamin C-sparing action.

On another side of things, Albert Hoffman suggests taking CHOCOLATE in order to speed up and accelerate LSD effects.

"Albert Hoffman [the discoverer of LSD] told me about it with reference to LSD, and he said that there are some receptors that it speeds up, and now we do it with MDMA and it seems to me that it works. They always have to take their orange juice, their pills and the chocolate. I think it has something to do with endorphines."
http://ecstasy.org/books/e4x/e4x.ch.09.html

"In pre-Columbian M?xico the mushrooms were served and eaten with chocolate and/or honey."
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_article6.shtml

"Dark chocolate derived from the plant (Theobroma cacao) is a rich source of flavonoids. Flavonoid-rich dark chocolate improves endothelial function and is associated with an increase in plasma epicatechin concentrations in healthy adults."
http://www.chocolate.org/flavonoids.html

Chocolate improves digestion and elimination where cacao/chocolate countered the effects of stagnant or weak stomachs, stimulated kidneys and improved bowel function.
http://www.chocolate.org/history.htm

CONCLUSION

This magic and unbeatable combination of high acidity, MAO-A Inhibition and potent bioflavonoid in relation to certain enzymes which would a allow a greater absorption of active compounds in the stomach is what makes of Black Currant juice the Gummiberry juice.



=====================================================================
IMPORTANT links. Further information about MAOIs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor - Wikipedia
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml - MAOIs, Erowid
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n1/06158mao.html - MAOI Contraindications
http://peyote.com/jonstef/maois.htm - Harmala in Syrian Rue as MAOI
http://www.acacialand.com/syrian.html - "Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo both claimed that, owing to rue's metaphysical powers, their eyesight and creative inner vision had been improved."


------------------------------------------------------------
Thought you might find this information interesting.

"Dr. Frescas also mentioned that black current juice is a MAO inhibitor, and when one bottle (diluted) is drunk with MDMA or amphetamine the effect can be felt with increased blood pressure and heart rate."

As published on the book E is for Ecstasy, with contributions from Sasha Shulgin [discoverer of MDMA].
http://ecstasy.org/books/e4x/e4x.ap.01/e4x.ap.01.141.html

Incidentally, this book was seized by Australian customs in 1994, and at last check (May 2000), the official ban on the book was still in force in that country.


Chemtech June 93 page 63: 50 grams of black currant juice concentrated 5.5 times inhibits 92% of MAO action (ref European patent application 0531155)
PATENT: Cerebral-Activating Compositions
http://register.epoline.org/espacenet/regviewer?AP=EP19920308053&PN=&CY=ep&LG=en&DB=REG

Abstract of EP0531155
"The use of an effective monoamine oxidase-inhibitory amount or portion of black currant juice (Ribes nigrum L.) or concentrate or dry extract thereof to activate the brain and central nervous system, in a living animal, especially a human being, in need thereof, and thereby to increase the general cerebral performance, especially in healthy and elderly people, and for the prevention, treatment, and alleviation of neurodegenerative diseases associated with reduced cerebral performance, such as Parkinson's disease, dementia, and mood disorders."
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?IDX=EP0531155

Claims of EP0531155


1. Use of blackcurrant juice or a concentrate or dry extract thereof for the manufacture of an orally administrable medicament for promotion of monoamine oxidase inhibition and/or cerebral stimulation.

2. Use as claimed in claim 1 for manufacture of a medicament for increase of cerebral performance and/or improvement of state of mood and/or prevention or treatment of neurodegenerative diseases in a human subject.

3. Use as claimed in claim 1 or claim 2 wherein said medicament is presented for administration of from 100 mg to 50 grams, preferably 1 gram to 20 grams, of blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof per day.

4.Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein said medicament is presented for administration of from 10 mg to 10 grams, preferably 100 mg to 5 grams, of blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof per unit dosage form.

5. Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein an at least two-fold concentrate of blackcurrant juice is employed.

6. Use as claimed in claim 5 wherein a four-fold to eight-fold concentrate of blackcurrant juice is employed.

7. Use as claimed in claim 6 wherein an approximately 5.5-fold concentrate of blackcurrant juice is employed.

8. Use as claimed in any of claims 1 to 4 wherein a dry extract of blackcurrant juice is employed.

9. Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein the blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof is formulated as a pharmaceutical, food or dietetic food composition.

10. Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein the blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof is formulated as a tablet, coated tablet, syrup, tonic or drink mix.
http://v3.espacenet.com/textclam?IDX=EP0531155&QPN=EP0531155

"The invention thus relates to use of black currant juice and concentrates and dry extracts thereof in the manufacture of medicaments for the inhibition of monoamine,oxidase and/or for stimulation of the brain and central nervous sytem, e.g. to increase general cerebral performance, especially in healthy and elderly people, as well as for the prevention, treatment, and alleviation of neurodegenerative diseases associated with reduced cerebral performance, such as Parkinson's disease, dementia, and mood disorders.

Such medicaments may contain a pharmaceutically or orally-acceptable carrier or diluent together with the black currant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof to facilitate oral administration of such a composition which may, for example, be in the form of a pharmaceutical, food, or dietetic food composition. The diluent or carrier may be adapted for the particular type of composition, which may, for example, be a tablet, a coated tablet, a syrup, a tonic, or a drink mix.The amount of black currant juice, concentrate, or dry extract present or employed is conveniently between 10 mg and 10 g per unit dosage form, preferably between 100 mg and 5 g per unit dosage form, and the black currant juice, concentrate, or dry extract is conveniently administered in an amount between 100 mg and 50 g per day, preferably in an amount between 100 mg and 50 g per day, preferably between 1 and 20 grams per day. The black currant juice is advantageously present in the form of an at least 2-fold concentrate thereof, preferably a 4-fold to 8-fold concentrate thereof, and most especially an approximately 5.5-fold concentrate thereof, or in the form of a dry extract thereof."

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n1/06158mao.html
Contraindications to the use of MAOIs include severe liver and kidney impairment, severe or frequent headache, uncontrolled hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, and cerebrovascular diseases.(6) Of course, those with psychiatric preconditions, especially prior psychotic breaks, should avoid entheogens, except when mediated by a professional.


Test 5 - Demonstration of cerebro-activating effect in humans


"In a single-blind controlled study the pharmaco-EEG, duration of spiral after-effect (SAE), profile of mood state (POMS), MAO activity (cf. 2), and blood pressure were assessed after the administration of 50 g black currant juice concentrate (5.5-fold) in comparison with orange juice as placebo."

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdes?IDX=EP0531155&QPN=EP0531155

"Ribena is a brand of uncarbonated soft drink made by GlaxoSmithKline GlaxoSmithKline, containing blackcurrant juice. The blackcurrant is a temperate shrub which produces small edible berries with a high natural vitamin C content, which are very dark purple/blue in colour?almost black?hence the name. The drink was launched in the 1930s and it was given the name Ribena, from the botanical name for the blackcurrant, Ribes nigrum in 1938. Blackcurrants are a rich source of Vitamin C.

Today Ribena is sold as a cordial and also pre-diluted and marketed in a large variety of flavours (e.g. Blackcurrant, Strawberry and Apple)."
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ribena
Ribena Concentrate:

Ribena: http://www.ribena.co.uk/

# MAOIs in Combination with Psychedelics
Generally increase the effects of the psychedelic significantly. Be extremely careful.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info8.shtml

Mushrooms Dosage calculator multiplies 2X the effect when using MAOIs.
http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/sty/print/spl/0/par/12195/

Are we talking now of a 5X effect with lemon juice plus 2X with Black Currant = 10X EFFECT??

Has anybody tried BLACK CURRANT juice yet? Now THIS together with lemon juice might be THE thing.



IMPORTANT INFORMATION. DO the test with an EMPTY stomach.
As per http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info2.shtml

FOODS TO AVOID with MAOIs

  # Alcoholic beverages Avoid Chianti wine and vermouth.
  # Consumption of red, white, and port wine in quantities less than 120 mL present little risk (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986).
  # Beer and ale should also be avoided (McCabe, 1986), however other investigators feel major domestic (US) brands of beer is safe in small quantities (? cup or less than 120 mL) (Anon, 1989; Da Prada, 1988), but imported beer should not be consumed unless a specific brand is known to be safe.
  # Whiskey and liqueurs such as Drambuie and Chartreuse have caused reactions.
  # Nonalcoholic beverages (alcohol-free beer and wines) may contain tyramine and should be avoided (Anon, 1989; Stockley, 1993).

  # Banana peels A single case report implicates a banana as the causative agent, which involved the consumption of whole stewed green banana, including the peel. Ripe banana pulp contains 7 ?g/gram of tyramine compared to a peel which contains 65 ?g/gram and 700 ?g of tyramine and dopamine, respectively (McCabe, 1986).

  # Bean curd Fermented bean curd, fermented soya bean, soya bean pastes contain a significant amount of tyramine (Anon, 1989).

  # Broad (fava) bean pods These beans contain dopa, not tyramine, which is metabolized to dopamine and may cause a pressor reaction and therefore should not be eaten particularly if overripe (McCabe, 1986; Anon, 1989; Brown & Bryant, 1988).

  # Cheese Tyramine content cannot be predicted based on appearance, flavor, or variety and therefore should be avoided.
  # Cream cheese and cottage cheese have no detectable level of tyramine (McCabe, 1986; Anon, 1989, Brown & Bryant, 1988).

  # Fish Fresh fish (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986) and vacuum-packed pickled fish or caviar contain only small amounts of tyramine and are safe if consumed promptly or refrigerated for short periods; longer storage may be dangerous (Anon, 1989).
  # Smoked, fermented, pickled (Herring) and otherwise aged fish, meat, or any spoiled food may contain high levels of tyramine and should be avoided (Anon, 1989; Brown & Bryant, 1988).

  # Ginseng Some preparations have resulted in a headache, tremulousness, and manic-like symptoms (Anon, 1989).

  # Protein extracts Three brands of meat extract contained 95, 206, and 304 ?g/gram of tyramine and therefore meat extracts should be avoided (McCabe, 1986).
  # Avoid liquid and powdered protein dietary supplements (Anon, 1989).

  # Meat nonfresh or liver
  # no detectable levels identified in fresh chicken livers
  # high tyramine content found in spoiled or unfresh livers (McCabe, 1986).
  # Fresh meat is safe, caution suggested in restaurants (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988).
  # Sausage, bologna, pepperoni and salami contain large amounts of tyramine (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986).
  # No detectable tyramine levels were identified in country cured ham (McCabe, 1986).

  # Sauerkraut Tyramine content has varied from 20 to 95 ?g/gram and should be avoided (McCabe, 1986).

  # Shrimp paste Contain a large amount of tyramine (Anon, 1989).

  # Soups Should be avoided as protein extracts may be present; miso soup is prepared from fermented bean curd and contain tyramine in large amounts and should not be consumed (Anon, 1989).

  # Yeast Brewer's or extracts - yeast extracts (Marmite) which are spread on bread or mixed with water,
  # Brewer's yeast, or Yeast vitamin supplements should not be consumed.
  # Yeast used in baking is safe (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986).

The foods to use with caution list categorizes foods that have been reported to cause a hypertensive crisis if foods were consumed in large quantities, stored for prolong periods, or if contamination occurred. Small servings (? cup, or less than 120 mL) of the following foods are not expected to pose a risk for patients on MAOI therapy (McCabe, 1986).

FOODS TO USE WITH CAUTION
(? cup or less than 120 mL)

    Alcoholic beverages - see under foods to avoid.

    Avocados - contain tyramine, particularly overripe (Anon, 1989) but may be used in small amounts if not overripened (McCabe, 1986).

    Caffeine - contains a weak pressor agent, large amounts may cause a reaction (Anon, 1989).

    Chocolate - is safe to ingest for most patients, unless consumed in large amounts (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986).

    Dairy products - Cream, sour cream, cottage cheese, cream cheese, yogurt, or milk should pose little risk unless prolonged storage or lack of sanitation standards exists (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986). Products should not be used if close to the expiration date (McCabe, 1986).

    Nuts - large quantities of peanuts were implicated in a hypertensive reaction and headache. Coconuts and brazil nuts have also been implicated, however no analysis of the tyramine content was performed (McCabe, 1986).

    Raspberries - contain tyramine and small amounts are expected to be safe (McCabe, 1986).

    Soy sauce - has been reported to contain large amounts of tyramine and reactions have been reported with teriyaki (Anon, 1989), however analysis of soy sauce reveals a tyramine level of 1.76 ?g/mL and fermented meat may have contributed to the previously reported reactions (McCabe, 1986).

    Spinach, New Zealand prickly or hot weather - large amounts have resulted in a reaction (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986).

DRUGS to AVOID with MAOIs. If you are on medication please DO NOT try this!
As per http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info3.shtml

To be as safe as possible, avoid the following drugs while you are taking an MAOI antidepressant and for two weeks after stopping it.

    * All SSRIs (prozac, zoloft, and several other anti-depressants)
      SSRIs block the reuptake of serotonin in the brain. Because MAOIs inhibit the breakdown of serotonin, the combination of MAOIs and SSRIs can lead to dangerously high levels of serotonin in the brain (serotonin syndrome). Symptoms of serotonin syndrome include nausea, vomiting, blackouts, memory loss, increased blood pressure and increased heart rate.
    * Demerol
    * Cold preparations (tablets, capsules, or liquids such as Comtrex)
    * Cough medications containing decongestants, Dextromethorphan (DXM)1, or Demerol
    * Sinus medications
    * Nose drops or nasal sprays
    * Nasal decongestants
    * Hay fever medications
    * Diet pills
    * Amphetamines --- speed
    * MDMA --- Ecstasy
    * MDE, MDA, and other "MD" compounds
    * Cocaine --- crack

MAOIs can and will dramatically increase the effects of some of these drugs to the point of becoming dangerous. Other plants and chemicals are intentionally combined with some reversible MAOIs (plants such as Syrian Rue or Banisteriopsis Caapi, or their primary active chemicals the harmala alkaloids) to intentionally increase the effects of chemicals such as DMT (as is done in many forms of the ayahuasca brew) or sometimes phenethylamines such as Mescaline or 2-CB. All of these "potentiating" combinations can be dangerous if used improperly.


** Further studies related with Black Currant juice **

Effect of blackcurrant-, cranberry- and plum juice consumption on risk factors associated with kidney stone formation.
Kessler T, Jansen B, Hesse A.
Division of Experimental Urology, Department of Urology, University of Bonn, Bonn, Germany.
Eur J Clin Nutr. 2002 Oct;56(10):1020-3

Blackcurrant juice increased the urinary pH and the excretion of citric acid. The excretion of oxalic acid was increased too.

CONCLUSION: It is concluded that blackcurrant juice could support the treatment and metaphylaxis of uric acid stone disease because of its alkalizing effect.
http://www.anti-aging-guide.com/41fruits.php



Also, the concentration of juice has to be known beforehand and before measuring the amount to drink.
As per http://www.ribena.ie/about_ribena/products.html,

Ribena Concentrate
(400ml, 600ml, 1 litre, 2 litre): Original Blackcurrant
"At our recommended dilution rate, you can get around 33 servings from a 1 litre bottle ? so a little Ribena goes a long, long way."
I don't know what's the dilution rate they are recommending.

I'm taking as the typical serving 1 glass of juice = 300 cc. of juice.
that means, at their recommended dilution rate, I'm guessing:
1000 cc / 33 servings =  30.3 cc. recommended / glass = a 10X concentrate?

Anybody can please check this and see if we are talking about a 5.5X, a 10X concentrate or what.

Ribena is recommended unless anybody finds a stronger concentrate.

Really Light Blackcurrant Squash 1 litre should be the strongest one (name is due only to lower sugar content).
It's Blackcurrant Juice from Concentrate (7%) (once diluted on 5X water)
Product before dilution contains 35% juice.

50 gr. of 5.5X concentrate used in the Patent equals = 275 gr. of Pure juice.
To get 275 gr. of Pure juice, diluted 35% we need:

350 gr. pure per 1000 gr.
275 gr. pure -> (1000*275)/350 = 785 gr. of concentrate.

That's 3/4 of a liter needed, unless someone finds a stronger concentrate.


http://www.ribena.co.uk/accessible/our_drinks/index.html

If it cannot be found, another brands found are:

Ribes

http://www.schilcherland.at/english/products/juice.htm#Ribes




Gummiberry Juice Song - Lyrics - Sheet Music
Take an ounce of bounce,
A pound of pounce,
And ripe gummiberries in varying amounts.
Dump them in a pot,
Stir 'rm till they're loose,
It's really something special,
It's gummiberry juice.

CHORUS:
Gummiberry, gummiberry juice,
Gummiberry, gummiberry juice,
We can bounce like kangaroos,
With gummiberry juice.

Berries in the pot,
Are extremely hot,
There's enough to last a week, and that is quite a lot!
But you'll have to wait,
For the concentrate,
It's extra-ordinary, and it tastes really great!
CHORUS
=============================================================
REPORTS

Incubaby_421

yes, it did work that AMAZINGLY WELL...
when i posted wow and the weird bird thing, i proceeded to melt into my computer monitor, wall paper flowers were growing, carpet was turnign into worms, im talking about fear and loathing shit, NEVER in my history of being bemushroomed have i hallucinated like that, NEVER
anyways

- Black Currant Juice brand: CurrantC
- Juice Quantity: 16 oz.
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 4 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop thrice before.
- Hours since last meal: 7 h.
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice:umm... these are relativly potent shrooms, but, god damn, that was more like 6 hits of acid than an eighth of shrooms
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: i have never done shrooms with only lemon or lime, but i did this time, plus the juice, id say that 10x would be a pretty accurate multiplication of the effects... at one point in time i went across the dark house to get some rainbow sherbert, the darkness was just one big ass hyallucination... amazing...
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): yes
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 45 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 60 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 4! hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4 1/4 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience:
i just want to say this is by far the hardest i have ever tripped off of anyhting, newbies BE CAREFULL, i have been there, ive ate ounces that didnt do that much before, this could definitly take someone to a very bad place



Schneck
- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: I have been tripping on mushrooms for 2 years - 20-30? trips. 2 LSD trips. 20-30 Salvia experiences (plain leaf?5x-10x-20x). Ololiuqui seeds ? 10 seeds just once. 2 Iboga powder trips (8g, 20g). Lots of herbal psychoactive experiments. Hash ? hundreds of times. Cannabis drunk and eaten ? hundreds of times. When I was younger I tried everything that was available: barbiturates, opium smoked/eaten/intravenuously, acetone inhalations and lots of other bullshit. I?m a proud pot smoker for roughly 24 years.
- Days since last trip on psychedelics: 5 weeks ago - Ps.cub 3g dry + 3g Syrian rue; 4 weeks ago - 20g iboga powder; 2 weeks ago - 3g Syrian rue + 10g MHRB
- Black Currant Juice brand: about 200-250g fresh (frozen) berries mixed with 1 cup of Ribena Original (6%) - - Juice Quantity: 400-450 g
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis homegrown
- Mushrooms Quantity: appr. 14 gr. fresh
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): No, my first crop.
- Hours since last meal: 24 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): No, mixed in a blender with lemon and grapefruit juice
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, for 30 minutes, 250ml pure lemon juice + 200ml grapefruit juice.
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): ABSOLUTELY
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 3X-4X
- Estimated total potency: 6X-10X?
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 10 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 15-20 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 2-4 hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 6 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 12 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience:
This time it was like never before. I was swept, trampled, smashed and humiliated. I am terrified with a thought that I could take 2 cups at once. That was a real near and beyond death experience, both spiritually and physically.
Yes, black currant works. But people, DO BE CAREFUL.



Fospher

- Black Currant Juice brand: 'Looza' Blackcurrant nectar All natural ingredients, no preservatives
Sold in US - retailer: Michael's Organic Market
30% juice, Drank a liter each with 2 other trippers (833.3mL is the dose with 30%).
- Juice Quantity: 1L
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 1.6 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, potent stuff.
- Hours since last meal: 7 h.
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice: I could tell the difference between that and just the 'lemon juiced' trip, but not much trip amplitude difference.
Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: See above.
Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): Barely.
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: ~ .5x
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: ^^
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 15 mins. Kicked in in a snap. Me, and two other trippers doing the same thing as me tripped hardest during the first hour. So we peaked right away, and then went on on a downward slope of 'shroomage'. Haha.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 15 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): ~ 25 minutes.
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: Hard to tell, maybe 5 hours in?
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours, but I was at an EDM party, and the music always keeps me going.
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience: I dont know why this didnt work as well as everyone else said it did. I didnt eat a thing all day, and neither did the other 2 trippers. Definetly tripped harder than Lemon/Lime trip, but not that big of a difference.


Forkbender

- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: Been tripping for 3 years now, only for spiritual development. Shrooms 10x plus a bunch of one-timers: ayahuasca, morning glory, salvia and MDMA.
- Days since last trip on psychedelics: 2 weeks ago, MDMA. 6 weeks ago, Salvia. 8 weeks ago, morning glory..
- Black Currant Juice brand: Natufood 100% pure Black Currant Juice
- What reads the concentration on the label?: 100%
- Juice Quantity: 275 ml as prescribed. I diluted most of it with about 50 ml of water, because the first gulp hurt the back of my throat.
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 1.5 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): No, just bought them a week ago.
- Hours since last meal: 16 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): I don't have a grinder, cut the up real fine with a big knife.
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, for 10 minutes, squeezed 1 lemon and a half.
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice: Stronger, faster, deeper
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: No experience with just lemon/lime
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): Yes, level 4 with just a gram and a half.
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: -
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: -
- Estimated total potency: 5x (?)
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 20 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 30 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 1 hour (!)
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 5 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 8 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience: It was really hard integrating the experience. Got a big headache the day after, because I forgot to drink for the first four hours (I was gone). It was my first trip all by myself, felt great. I talked a lot to myself though, sounded like upanishads to me. The love of seeing the interplay between being and becoming, seeing that it's all the same was pretty gorgeous. It was during the daytime, which anoyed me a bit, so next time I'll prefer the dark. Next time is gonna be a couple of months away. Had enough for a while.

ayjay101

- How experienced are you with psychedelics?:
- Days since last trip on psychedelics:
- Black Currant Juice brand: Bickford's Gold
- What reads the concentration on the label?: 50%
- Juice Quantity: 550g
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis (Golden Teacher)
- Mushrooms Quantity: 1.1 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, good potency.
- Hours since last meal: 9 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N):
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N):
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice: seemed to be deeper, for a shorter time
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: N/A
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): Yes. (even though vomiting probably made it weaker)
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 2X - 2.5X (but vomited!)
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: N/A
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 50 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 60 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 70 mins
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 95 mins
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 4 hrs


=============================================================

Quote:

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HeavyToilet said:
Black Currant juice is an MAOI?! Wow, I've never heard of that before.

I'm very interested on whether anyone here has tried it.

Have you tried it? Maybe I'll try it in the near future. How long before I eat the mushrooms should I drink the black currant juice?

I'll have to pick some up.

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Quote:

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Psiledehysp said:
One thing doesnt feel right here, for me. I wish with my whole heart for this to be working good - but with maoi you have to be very carefull what you eat since wrong kind of food (old cheese/wine/others?) can be very bad an even fatal!

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Quote:

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Psiledehysp said:
  But I vever heard of someone dying or even having any problem with blaccurrant juice + ordinary foods.

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Quote:

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Psiledehysp said:
So how about that? Just a minor mao inhibition? But if so, this quote doesnt fit:

"50 grams of black currant juice concentrated 5.5 times inhibits 92% of MAO action"

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Quote:

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Psiledehysp said:
No no, I wasnt sugesting that people dies form this juice, only that if it is maoi thats what should be happening - thats how I understand maoi and some foods corelation.

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Quote:

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HeavyToilet said:
I just found out I also might be taking mushrooms tomorrow.

I want a strong experince, so I'm thinking maybe 3.5 grams + black currant juice. At worst it'll only feel like a 3.5 gram trip.

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Quote:

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Psiledehysp said:
"Dying from black currant juice + ordinary foods??? I certainly haven't heard about that, else it would be obviously warned on a big label in the bottle, but please, if you anybody finds any further information, let us know."

No no, I wasnt sugesting that people dies form this juice, only that if it is maoi thats what should be happening - thats how I understand maoi and some foods corelation.

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Quote:

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incubaby_421 said:
so heavytoilet gets a warning but not me, ok, i see how it is, nobody cares if i die....

if somebody else will promise too test this this weekend then i will do 2g with black currant juice and 2g with lemon juice....

IN THE PURSUIT OF SCIENCE!

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Quote:

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incubaby_421 said:
holy jesus fucking christ
i just want to say
i love you guys
i needed that... and it comes highly recomended...
it works.... it all works

---

Incubaby, DID IT WORK that amazingly GOOD!??

You seem like an experienced tripper then, GOOD.

Can you please write a report for us like this?

Thanks mate! 

Black Currant Juice brand: Really Light Blackcurrant Squash
Juice Quantity: 750 gr. = 24 oz.(cc. if we assume 1 gr roughly = 1 cc.)
Mushrooms species: Psylocybe Cubensis
Mushrooms Quantity: 3 gr. dry
Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop twice before.
Hours since last meal: 12 h.
Description of effects compared vs. no juice:
Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice:
Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N):
Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X
Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 20 mins.
Time to onset of visual disturbance: 45 mins.
Time to peak (rough estimate): 2 hours
Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 5 hours
Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours

Quote:

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MxIndustry said:
i know this may sound stupid but what are MAOI's?

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Quote:

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HeavyToilet said:
I guess you probably wont be able to accurately judge if it is an MAOI or not, huh?

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Quote:

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Psiloman said:
By the way here is a chemical analysis of the plant : http://sun.ars-grin.gov:8080/npgspub/xsql/duke/plantdisp.xsql?taxon=858

Looking up the activities of the plant two compounds show up that Dr Duke assigns them MAO-A inhibitor properties : Quercetin and Quercitrin.Also an extra one is listed as "MAO Inhibitor" (without further specification) : Kaempferol

So... i will run some searches on them to see what they are exactly.Feel free to do the same

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Quote:

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Psiloman said:
By the way here is a chemical analysis of the plant : http://sun.ars-grin.gov:8080/npgspub/xsql/duke/plantdisp.xsql?taxon=858

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Quote:

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HeavyToilet said:
Interesting.

You know, I don't know very much about MAO-As. But apparently: "MAO-A mainly breaks down the neurochemicals serotonin and norepinephrine."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAO-A

Is that... safe? What kind of changes could that lead to?

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Quote:

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HeavyToilet said:
Is that... safe? What kind of changes could that lead to?

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Quote:

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Tyramine is an amino acid which is normally metabolized by MAO in the
gut. After taking tranylcypromine or phenelzine (but not, apparently,
moclobemide) this MAO is inhibited and any dietary Tyramine will not be
metabolized and will cause an increase in tyramine levels in blood. This
is bad due to tyramine's effect on norepinephrine and leads to a
hypertensive crisis. Blood pressure goes up to 180+ over something,
heartbeat goes to well over 100 bpm, and people who suffer one of these
typically report getting the most painful headache of their lives. Sometimes
a Ca-blocker like nifedipine is prescribed for the user of the MAOI to
take to combat this effect should it occur.

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infinitedot said:

Quote:

---

HeavyToilet said:
Is that... safe? What kind of changes could that lead to?

---

Good question for anybody who is willing to safely and responsibly consider this. Read on:

"SSRIs are frequently prescribed for anxiety disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and eating disorders. Though not specifically indicated by the manufacturers, they are also sometimes prescribed to treat irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). Additionally, SSRIs have been found to be effective in treating premature ejaculation in up to 60% of men.

SSRIs are not addictive in the strict sense of the word (i.e. animals given free access to the drug do not actively seek it out and do not seek to increase the dose), but suddenly discontinuing their use is known to produce both somatic and psychological withdrawal symptoms, a phenomenon known as "SSRI discontinuation syndrome" (Tamam & Ozpoyraz, 2002). Compared to the withdrawal symptoms of such drugs as opiates, alcohol, or cocaine, these are slight, although the prescribing labels acknowledge the possibility of "intolerable" discontinuation reactions."

Basically, you wouldn't get "hooked" on MAOIs just with a random trips on them every now and then. But there's a chance of developing symptons on a continued use.

So that everyone understands a bit better, the most popular of these MAOIs is Prozac.

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Quote:

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HeavyToilet said:
I know that they cause twice the effect.

But is it worth it? Does your brain just go back to normal after? Is it alright to have these imbalances in chemicals that your brain needs?

Quote:

---

Tyramine is an amino acid which is normally metabolized by MAO in the
gut.  After taking tranylcypromine or phenelzine (but not, apparently,
moclobemide) this MAO is inhibited and any dietary Tyramine will not be
metabolized and will cause an increase in tyramine levels in blood.  This
is bad due to tyramine's effect on norepinephrine and leads to a
hypertensive crisis.  Blood pressure goes up to 180+ over something,
heartbeat goes to well over 100 bpm, and people who suffer one of these
typically report getting the most painful headache of their lives.  Sometimes
a Ca-blocker like nifedipine is prescribed for the user of the MAOI to
take to combat this effect should it occur.

---

And what about this business with not being able to consume tyramine without going into hypertensive crisis? It sounds like you really have to watch what you eat around the time of taking MAOIs.

---

Correct. You have to. That is why it is so important to test this on an empty stomach. On a paper they say that only 4% of the people who mix MAOIs with some particular kind of food might have health issues from it. But it's still a 4%. When it's you, you don't care about the other lucky 96% left.

About brain going back to "normal"...well...I've been asking myself what's the definiton of "normal" for some years from a philosophical point of view. "Normal" is a very blurred term. Any situation that has the possibility to change your life forever, like meeting the person of your life or skydiving, or that first kiss, changes your brain forever.

We are talking about drugs here. We should all keep this in mind. If the question is if it's within reasonably safe limits on a healthy person to test this, I'd say it is. But, again, do NOT take any decision just based on anybody's opinion. Be responsible and do your own research. This should apply to anything in life, but well... we know what we are dealing with.

Basically, my answer is, be responsible and read as much as you can before deciding on anything you do in life. 

Quote:

---

And what about this business with not being able to consume tyramine without going into hypertensive crisis? It sounds like you really have to watch what you eat around the time of taking MAOIs.

---

Quote:

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But is it worth it? Does your brain just go back to normal after? Is it alright to have these imbalances in chemicals that your brain needs?

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Quote:

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To cut a long story short, psychedelics + MAOI's = stronger effects

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Quote:

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Moreover, there is experimental evidence that the pharmaceutical MAOI iproniazid (Marsilid) markedly inhibits the visionary effects of DMT injected intramuscularly. In seven subjects given intramuscular injections of DMT (two at 0.35-0.55 mg/kg; five at 0.65-0.83 mg/kg), greatly reduced psychoactivity was observed when the experiment was repeated two days after having received 100 mg iproniazid daily, for 4 days ("the DMT psychosis" was less pronounced; there were illusions and hallucinations, but without colours, or only with a few of them).(9) The author commented that the "high 5-HT [serotonin] level" produced by the MAOI blocked the effect of DMT, thought to owe its psychoactivity to serotonin antagonism - with higher background levels of serotonin, higher doses of DMT would be required to produce equivalent effects absent MAOI

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Quote:

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We thus have both experimental and anecdotal evidence that MAOI, far from potentiating LSD, rather seem to exert an effect parallel to that of DMT - blocker, serving also as LSD-blockers!

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Quote:

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Nevertheless, inasmuch as so many people have avowed that Syrian rue seeds potentiate psilocybian mushrooms, there must be some truth to this. I am not claiming this is not true, only that we have no solid proof of this. Since data on related visionary tryptamines DMT and LSD suggest conventional wisdom on this point is wrong, any potentiation of psilocybin by MAOI would be an anomaly, hardly expected - certainly not to be taken for granted.

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Quote:

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incubaby_421 said:
yes, it did work that AMAZINGLY WELL...
when i posted wow and the weird bird thing, i proceeded to melt into my computer monitor, wall paper flowers were growing, carpet was turnign into worms, im talking about fear and loathing shit, NEVER  in my history of being bemushroomed have i hallucinated like that, NEVER
anyways

Black Currant Juice brand: CurrantC
Juice Quantity: 16 oz.
Mushrooms species: Psylocybe Cubensis
Mushrooms Quantity: 4 gr. dry
Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop thrice before.
Hours since last meal: 7 h.
Description of effects compared vs. no juice:umm... these are relativly potent shrooms, but, god damn, that was more like 6 hits of acid than an eighth of shrooms
Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: i have never done shrooms with only lemon or lime, but i did this time, plus the juice, id say that 10x would be a pretty accurate multiplication of the effects... at one point in time i went across the dark house to get some rainbow sherbert, the darkness was just one big ass hyallucination... amazing...
Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): yes
Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X
Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 45 mins.
Time to onset of visual disturbance: 60 mins.
Time to peak (rough estimate): 4! hours
Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4 1/4 hours
Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours


i just want to say this is by far the hardest i have ever tripped off of anyhting, newbies BE CAREFULL, i have been there, ive ate ounces that didnt do that much before, this could definitly take someone to a very bad place

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All I can say is... Hats off to you mate!

I'm so glad. This is what communities are for.

After reading incubaby's report, PLEASE, be careful. Incubaby IS an experienced tripper and he claims to have had his strongest trip ever, after 250-300 trips. PLEASE, read the whole thread before considering doing anything. This is a SERIOUS warning.

Let's be responsible, ok? 

Keep us informed about that email incubaby.

Cheers!

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incubaby_421 said:

Black Currant Juice brand: CurrantC
Juice Quantity: 16 oz.
Mushrooms species: Psylocybe Cubensis
Mushrooms Quantity: 4 gr. dry
Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop thrice before.
Hours since last meal: 7 h.

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Psiloman said:
Now here is something interesting i read : http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06332ott.html

Quote:

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Nevertheless, inasmuch as so many people have avowed that Syrian rue seeds potentiate psilocybian mushrooms, there must be some truth to this. I am not claiming this is not true, only that we have no solid proof of this. Since data on related visionary tryptamines DMT and LSD suggest conventional wisdom on this point is wrong, any potentiation of psilocybin by MAOI would be an anomaly, hardly expected - certainly not to be taken for granted.

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Interesting none the less....

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Quote:

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Revelation said:
This is probably the best blackcurrant juice on the market, Innocent "juicy water":

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Is there a concentrated version of that?

At 10% purity, you'd need to drink 2.75 liters to get the suggested 275ml. of pure juice