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Invisibleinfinitedot
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/05
Posts: 96
Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute * 1
    #4949877 - 11/18/05 03:03 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MOD EDIT: thoroughly researched, of potentially high interest, 1.500+ views/150+ posts and independent verification required: stickied for now. Please note that independent reports are far more important than academic discussion at this point.




*** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor ***

*** The Gummiberry ? juice experiment *** -


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney's_Adventures_of_the_Gummi_Bears - 1985
"The Gummi Bears gained their ability to bounce by drinking  Gummyberry Juice. If the juice was consumed by humans, they would (temporarily) gain superhuman strength (however it would only work once a day) and for this reason, the bears kept the recipe secret."

Ayahuasca 1) an Amazonian giant vine native to the rainforest, generally Banisteriopsis caapi, and, by extension, 2) pharmacologically complex infusions prepared from it for shamanic, folk-medicinal, and quasi-religious purposes.  Sections of vine are boiled alone or with leaves from any of a large number of other plants, including Psychotria viridis (chakruna in Quechua) or Diplopterys cabrerana, yielding a brew containing the powerful entheogenic alkaloid N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), combined with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (or MAOI).


*** Gummihuasca ? : psilocybin potentiation with a MAO-A Inhibitor + psilocin accelerator = 10X Potency ***



Try this ONLY if it *IS* LEGAL for you to try this. I don't take any responsabilities for this. This MIGHT have unexpected effects. PLEASE be VERY careful about this. If you have got ANY mental/health issues, please do NOT get involved in such a test.  If you are on medication please DO NOT try this! This is a serious warning. Under NO circumstances mix MAOIs (Black Currant juice) with any other drugs, specially MDMA [Extacy, pills], MDE, MDA, Cocaine, Crack. Please, be responsible, this HASN'T been properly tested yet to conclude it is totally safe. If you test it, be conscious and totally aware that you ARE taking a risk.



DANGEROUS COMBINATIONS!!
READ THIS!! VERY IMPORTANT. IGNORING THIS WHOLE FIRST POST COULD LEAD TO SERIOUS MEDICAL PROBLEMS (like death...)


Please, make sure you read this whole post before attempting anything or deciding to take part on this test. At least two experienced trippers have reported this as his strongest trip ever.

Those considering self-induced exploration should be aware of its complications and make an informed decision. The restrictions here delineated are not meant to be all-encompassing but, rather, are meant to provide general guidelines. Further questions should be directed to your physician.

Keep in mind that I'm *NO EXPERT* whatsoever. Only a curious guy interested in exploring the amazing realms of Consciousness. Like you.

Credit for initial discovery of lemon/lime juice as an enhancer of the strength that lead me to research further possibilities goes to Underhillmaster. He is experienced for more than 20 years and 100 trips and did trials on 20 acquaintances for 6 months and the responses were uniform. :thumbup: :thumbup:

** FIRST REPORT by incubaby_421 - Confirms 10X expectations **
Further reports will be pasted at the end of this first post.

incubaby_421 has been the first person to test this.
He is an experienced tripper, 250-300 trips.

=============================================================================
yes, it did work that AMAZINGLY WELL...
when i posted wow and the weird bird thing, i proceeded to melt into my computer monitor, wall paper flowers were growing, carpet was turnign into worms, im talking about fear and loathing shit, NEVER in my history of being bemushroomed have i hallucinated like that, NEVER
anyways


- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: +250 trips
- Days since last trip on psychedelics:
- Black Currant Juice brand: CurrantC
- What reads the concentration on the label?: 37% concentrate
- Juice Quantity: 16 oz.
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 4 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop thrice before.
- Hours since last meal: 7 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): N
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Y
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice:umm... these are relativly potent shrooms, but, god damn, that was more like 6 hits of acid than an eighth of shrooms
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: i have never done shrooms with only lemon or lime, but i did this time, plus the juice, id say that 10x would be a pretty accurate multiplication of the effects... at one point in time i went across the dark house to get some rainbow sherbert, the darkness was just one big ass hyallucination... amazing...
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): yes
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 45 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 60 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 4! hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4 1/4 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience: I just want to say this is by far the hardest i have ever tripped off of anyhting, newbies BE CAREFULL, i have been there, ive ate ounces that didnt do that much before, this could definitly take someone to a very bad place

=============================================================================
dingleberrysalad's report on Lemon/lime Juice:

I agree 100%! I tried this method out for the second time on friday and it kicked my ass again! It was totaly amazing! I will problably never eat a full eight of shrooms again in my life because there is no need for it! If there is anyone out there who hasn't tried this yet, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU WAITING FOR!

I took one lemon and one lime and juiced them and mixed well with only 1.7 grams of dried shroom powder and let it sit for 5 minutes and then drank it. I normaly take 3.5 grams of shrooms, but with only 1.7 grams and 1lemon and lime I had the most vivid visuals I have ever seen!!! I was laying on my trampoline after smokein a bowl topped with kief and staring at the stars. The whole sky was covered with a hallucination of red, yellow, and orange all swirling and twisting together and the stars were twinkling through. I have never seen an open eye visual that amazing and vivid and real! And from only 1.7 grams! It blew my mind.
This really works people so be carefull. You could end up tripping hard than you even imagined possible!
=====================================================================================================

GUMMIHUASCA ? recipe with Gummiberry ? Juice without vomiting nor nausea in 7 easy and gummimagic STEPS:



STEP 1 - Brain, 1. Common sense, 1. Read the whole post, >=2.

Ideally the best is to get pure juice from fresh black currants, 275 ml.
Else, nectar concentrate, sometimes called squash, cordial or syrup can do.
Black Currant juice based on 4-6% or 22% concentrate doesn't suit, as more than 4 liters (128 oz, 1 gal.) or 1.25 liters for 22% would have to be drank.
Nectar concentrate has the highest concentration of juice, usually 35%. Check the label.

Get 1 liter bottle of Ribena Really Light Blackcurrant Squash.
Label: "Product before dilution contains 35% juice."




Apparently this brand is only sold in 22 countries, including: Caribbean, UK, Eire, Denmark, Greece, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Yemen, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand, Kenya, Nigeria, Mauritius, China, Hong Kong, Japan.

ANY Black Currant Juice brand should work. The difference is the concentration of pure juice. If you cannot find the following ones in your country, check the labels and look for the most concentrated one.

Member incubaby_421 is the first person to have tested it, and he has found this brand, CurrantC concentrate, to be successful, available in the USA, sold at Tops:





Store locator:
http://www.currantc.com/index.php?submenu=WhereToBuy&src=directory&view=RetailLocater
incubaby_421: "couldnt find suggested brands, so i bought the only one i found, after traveling to three different cities in search of, its called CurrantC, its a 16oz. bottle and is 37% juice, pretty fucking tasty, i might add..."

Also sold in your local:

- Tops
- P&C Food Stores
- Big M Market
- BiLo

Store locator for Tops:
http://www.topsmarkets.com/shareddev/Tops_Store_Locator/Locator.cfm

Store locator for P&C Food Stores:
http://www.pandcfoods.com/StoreLocator/Store_S.las?

Store locator for BiLo:
http://www.bilofoods.com/StoreLocator/Store_S.las

Other retailers:
http://www.maplelane.com/pages/BlackCurrants.html
http://www.pricechopper.com/StoreLocator/Store_S.las

Online retailers:
http://www.naturesflavors.com/product_info.php?cPath=&products_id=4430

STEP 2 - Empty stomach, at least 8 hours before intake, 12 h. better, ideally 24h. It *IS* very important to have an empty stomach, AT LEAST 8 hours before intake, as some food combinations might be dangerous with MAOIs and, in rare cases, even might be fatal. Please read on the whole post.

STEP 3 -

Ideally, this should be tested with pure juice from freshly squeezed black currants. You need to drink 275 gr. of pure juice, roughly 7 oz.

Else, you can use a strong concentrate, 35% is the highest one found until now (Ribena Squash brand).

50 gr. of 5.5X concentrate used in the Patent equals = 275 gr. of Pure juice. Do your math for your chosen brand of juice.
To get 275 gr. of Pure juice, diluted 35% (Ribena brand) we need:

350 gr. pure per 1000 gr.
275 gr. pure -> (1000*275)/350 = 785 gr. of concentrate. Let's roughly assume 1 gr. = 1 ml.

Drink the 785ml. of Black Currant 37% concentrated juice. (= 3/4 of a liter = 25 oz.). It is preferable to not have drank water within 1:30 hour prior to dosing as water affects the pH.

STEP 4 - Wait for 1 hour. Do not eat or drink any water during this 1 hour waiting.

STEP 5 - If you want to test this with lemon/lime juice too:

- Put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you get a fine powder, either dry or fresh mushrooms.If you haven't got a coffee grinder handy, you can at least try to smash them as much as possible, inside a plastic bag for instance.

- Squeeze 1 lemon and 1 lime, or 2 lemons, or use some lemon/lime concentrate, but do not add water, to keep the acidity.

- Leave the mushrooms soaking in the lemon/lime juice for the last 10-15 minutes of that 1 hour waiting after you drank your Black Currant juice.

- If you haven't got lemon/lime handy, you can do the same but soaking in Black Currant juice concentrate (the pH of normal 6% juice might not be acidic enough, as it's mixed with water), as it is highly acidic as lemon.

Since heat speeds up chemical reactions, it's easy to assume lack of heat would slow them down. So do NOT refridgerate your juice or fresh fruit if you're going to try this method. Or at least take them out of the fridge a few hours in advance so they have time to reach room temperature.

STEP 6 - Eat the mushrooms (or drink the lemon/lime or Black Currant juice mixed with the mushrooms).
After 1-1:30 hours a light snack and fluids can be taken to dilute the acidic stomach contents, for instance a glass of milk or a sandwich with a glass of water.

STEP 7 - Relax. Breathe. Turn off. Tune in. Drop out. Enjoy. Write report filling the standard template below.


=========================================================

Please report like this, for instance:

- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: I have been tripping on mushrooms for 5 years. Around 20-30 trips. 15 LSD trips.
- Days since last trip on psychedelics: 8 weeks ago, 1 hit LSD. 6 weeks ago, 4 gr. dry Psilocybe Cubensis
- Black Currant Juice brand: Really Light Blackcurrant Squash
- What reads the concentration on the label?: "Product before dilution contains 35% juice."
- Juice Quantity: 750 ml. = 25 oz.(if we assume 1 oz. = 30 ml. = 30 cc.)
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 3 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop twice before.
- Hours since last meal: 12 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): Yes
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, for 10 minutes, squeezed 1 lemon and 1 lime.
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice:
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice:
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N):
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X
- Estimated total potency: 6X-10X
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 20 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 45 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 2 hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 5 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience:

=========================================================



EXPLANATION

Background Data
Black Currants are the king of berries with more than twice the antioxidants of blueberries, 4 times the Vitamin C of oranges, more potassium than bananas, and a cache of iron, calcium, magnesium and manganese...

- Psilocybin          - pH 5.2 - http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/psilocybin.html
- Psilocybin breaks down in the body to form Psilocin (the good stuff).
- Psilocin is unstable in solutions, ESPECIALLY alkaline (Base)ones.
- Psilocin is obtained by dephosphorylation (bonding of Phosphate) of psilocybin under strongly acidic or alkaline conditions.
- Acidic foods are retained in the stomach for a longer period than non-acidic foods
- In a solution when the pH is changed to acidic, the alkaloids will dissolve in water in a salt form.



WHY IT WORKS

1 - The work hypothesis is that fruit juices would break down psilocybin into psilocin when the mushrooms are soaked in the juice for some time before eating them:

Water - pH 7.00
Orange juice - pH 3.30-4.19
Prune juice - pH 3.95-3.97
Plum Nectar - pH 3.45
Apple juice - pH 3.35-4.00
Kiwi juice - pH 3.30-3.80
Pineapple juice - pH 3.30-3.60
Grapefruit juice - pH 2.90-3.25
Pomegranate - pH 2.93-3.20
Vinegar            - pH 2.40-3.40
Black Currant juice - pH ~2.7 - with Pectinex BE-3L Enzyme: 2.45
Cranberry juice    - pH 2.30-2.52
Lemon juice        - pH 2.00-2.60
Lime juice          - pH 2.00-2.35

FLUIDS - ACID STANDARDS
Ascorbic acid 5% pH 2.0 (MERCK)
0.1N Citric acid 2% pH 2.2 (MERCK)
0.1N Tartaric acid 1.5% pH 2.2 (MERCK)
0.1N Ascorbic acid 1.75% pH 2.3 (MERCK)
0.1N Acetic acid 0.6% pH 2.9 (MERCK)

pH of Foods: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/lacf-phs.html

pH of BC: www.vtt.fi/virtual/maxfun/buchert_et_al.pdf

Vitamin C  (L-enantiomer of ascorbic acid) per 100 gr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C

Billygoat plum 3150
Camu Camu 2800
Tibetan Goji berry 2500
Rosehip 2000
Blackcurrant 200
Guava 100
Kiwifruit 90
Loganberry 80
Redcurrant 80
Papaya 60
Strawberry 50
Orange 50
Raspberry 30
Lemon 40
Lime    20
Raspberry 20
Pineapple 10
Grape 10
Apple 6
Bilberry 1

Manninee:
There are several different ways that ascorbic acid/vit c and the chemicals in fruit juices might enhance the passage and/or activation of psilocybin:

(i) The Vitamin C transporter molecules in gut cells: People know that ascorbic acid is transported 'actively' in the gut (ie - by cellular machinery... specialised proteins) but as I understand, nobody has yet identified these molecules in gut, although they have been found elsewhere in the body. Many transporter molecules absorb more than one molecule simultaneously, and some chemicals enhance the absorbtion of others. Maybe Psilocybin and Vitamin C are co-transported, with the ascorbic acid facilitating the uptake of psilocybin?

(ii) The ascorbic acid functionally interferes with the detoxifying enzymes - Monoamine Oxidases and the family known as cytochrome P450. Citrus flavonoids enhance the absorbtion of vitamin C as well as blocking some aspects of the P450 enzymes (many health food chains sell Vit C/Flavonoid combination pills). These enzymes are in gut cells, the liver and elsewhere.

(iii) The other mechanism for prolongation could be the anti-oxidative properties of vitamin c interfering with the dephosphorylation of psilocybin to psilocin somehow - possibly making it a more gradual process.

Which would yield higher contents of psilocin ready to be ingested.

2 - ...and a MAGIC hidden secret gummicompound: Quercetin and Quercitrin, responsible for the MAO-A inhibition, present also in ST. JOHN?S WORT, the popular Hypericum and GINKGO BILOBA. This might lead to further experiments with Mushrooms + St. John's Wort tea, Ginkgo Biloba, ascorbic acid and other juices. Stay tuned.

Consumption of black currants, lingonberries and bilberries increases serum quercetin concentrations
European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2003) 57, 37-42. doi:10.1038/sj.ejcn.1601513
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v57/n1/abs/1601513a.html

Chemtech June 93 page 63: 50 grams of black currant juice concentrated 5.5 times inhibits 92% of MAO action (ref European patent application 0531155)
PATENT: Cerebral-Activating Compositions
http://register.epoline.org/espacenet/regviewer?AP=EP19920308053&PN=&CY=ep&LG=en&DB=REG

QUERCETIN is also the most POTENT bioflavonoid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin

Quercetin is a flavonoid that forms the "backbone" for many other flavonoids, including the citrus flavonoids rutin, hesperidin, naringin and tangeritin. Quercetin is found to be the most active of the flavonoids in studies, and many medicinal plants owe much of their activity to their high quercetin content. Quercetin has demonstrated significant anti-inflammatory activity because of direct inhibition of several initial processes of inflammation. For example, it inhibits both the manufacture and release of histamine and other allergic/inflammatory mediators. In addition, it exerts potent antioxidant activity and vitamin C-sparing action.

On another side of things, Albert Hoffman suggests taking CHOCOLATE in order to speed up and accelerate LSD effects.

"Albert Hoffman [the discoverer of LSD] told me about it with reference to LSD, and he said that there are some receptors that it speeds up, and now we do it with MDMA and it seems to me that it works. They always have to take their orange juice, their pills and the chocolate. I think it has something to do with endorphines."
http://ecstasy.org/books/e4x/e4x.ch.09.html

"In pre-Columbian M?xico the mushrooms were served and eaten with chocolate and/or honey."
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_article6.shtml

"Dark chocolate derived from the plant (Theobroma cacao) is a rich source of flavonoids. Flavonoid-rich dark chocolate improves endothelial function and is associated with an increase in plasma epicatechin concentrations in healthy adults."
http://www.chocolate.org/flavonoids.html

Chocolate improves digestion and elimination where cacao/chocolate countered the effects of stagnant or weak stomachs, stimulated kidneys and improved bowel function.
http://www.chocolate.org/history.htm

CONCLUSION

This magic and unbeatable combination of high acidity, MAO-A Inhibition and potent bioflavonoid in relation to certain enzymes which would a allow a greater absorption of active compounds in the stomach is what makes of Black Currant juice the Gummiberry juice.



=====================================================================
IMPORTANT links. Further information about MAOIs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor - Wikipedia
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml - MAOIs, Erowid
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n1/06158mao.html - MAOI Contraindications
http://peyote.com/jonstef/maois.htm - Harmala in Syrian Rue as MAOI
http://www.acacialand.com/syrian.html - "Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo both claimed that, owing to rue's metaphysical powers, their eyesight and creative inner vision had been improved."


------------------------------------------------------------
Thought you might find this information interesting.

"Dr. Frescas also mentioned that black current juice is a MAO inhibitor, and when one bottle (diluted) is drunk with MDMA or amphetamine the effect can be felt with increased blood pressure and heart rate."

As published on the book E is for Ecstasy, with contributions from Sasha Shulgin [discoverer of MDMA].
http://ecstasy.org/books/e4x/e4x.ap.01/e4x.ap.01.141.html

Incidentally, this book was seized by Australian customs in 1994, and at last check (May 2000), the official ban on the book was still in force in that country.


Chemtech June 93 page 63: 50 grams of black currant juice concentrated 5.5 times inhibits 92% of MAO action (ref European patent application 0531155)
PATENT: Cerebral-Activating Compositions
http://register.epoline.org/espacenet/regviewer?AP=EP19920308053&PN=&CY=ep&LG=en&DB=REG

Abstract of EP0531155
"The use of an effective monoamine oxidase-inhibitory amount or portion of black currant juice (Ribes nigrum L.) or concentrate or dry extract thereof to activate the brain and central nervous system, in a living animal, especially a human being, in need thereof, and thereby to increase the general cerebral performance, especially in healthy and elderly people, and for the prevention, treatment, and alleviation of neurodegenerative diseases associated with reduced cerebral performance, such as Parkinson's disease, dementia, and mood disorders."
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?IDX=EP0531155

Claims of EP0531155


1. Use of blackcurrant juice or a concentrate or dry extract thereof for the manufacture of an orally administrable medicament for promotion of monoamine oxidase inhibition and/or cerebral stimulation.

2. Use as claimed in claim 1 for manufacture of a medicament for increase of cerebral performance and/or improvement of state of mood and/or prevention or treatment of neurodegenerative diseases in a human subject.

3. Use as claimed in claim 1 or claim 2 wherein said medicament is presented for administration of from 100 mg to 50 grams, preferably 1 gram to 20 grams, of blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof per day.

4.Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein said medicament is presented for administration of from 10 mg to 10 grams, preferably 100 mg to 5 grams, of blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof per unit dosage form.

5. Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein an at least two-fold concentrate of blackcurrant juice is employed.

6. Use as claimed in claim 5 wherein a four-fold to eight-fold concentrate of blackcurrant juice is employed.

7. Use as claimed in claim 6 wherein an approximately 5.5-fold concentrate of blackcurrant juice is employed.

8. Use as claimed in any of claims 1 to 4 wherein a dry extract of blackcurrant juice is employed.

9. Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein the blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof is formulated as a pharmaceutical, food or dietetic food composition.

10. Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein the blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof is formulated as a tablet, coated tablet, syrup, tonic or drink mix.
http://v3.espacenet.com/textclam?IDX=EP0531155&QPN=EP0531155

"The invention thus relates to use of black currant juice and concentrates and dry extracts thereof in the manufacture of medicaments for the inhibition of monoamine,oxidase and/or for stimulation of the brain and central nervous sytem, e.g. to increase general cerebral performance, especially in healthy and elderly people, as well as for the prevention, treatment, and alleviation of neurodegenerative diseases associated with reduced cerebral performance, such as Parkinson's disease, dementia, and mood disorders.

Such medicaments may contain a pharmaceutically or orally-acceptable carrier or diluent together with the black currant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof to facilitate oral administration of such a composition which may, for example, be in the form of a pharmaceutical, food, or dietetic food composition. The diluent or carrier may be adapted for the particular type of composition, which may, for example, be a tablet, a coated tablet, a syrup, a tonic, or a drink mix.The amount of black currant juice, concentrate, or dry extract present or employed is conveniently between 10 mg and 10 g per unit dosage form, preferably between 100 mg and 5 g per unit dosage form, and the black currant juice, concentrate, or dry extract is conveniently administered in an amount between 100 mg and 50 g per day, preferably in an amount between 100 mg and 50 g per day, preferably between 1 and 20 grams per day. The black currant juice is advantageously present in the form of an at least 2-fold concentrate thereof, preferably a 4-fold to 8-fold concentrate thereof, and most especially an approximately 5.5-fold concentrate thereof, or in the form of a dry extract thereof."

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n1/06158mao.html
Contraindications to the use of MAOIs include severe liver and kidney impairment, severe or frequent headache, uncontrolled hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, and cerebrovascular diseases.(6) Of course, those with psychiatric preconditions, especially prior psychotic breaks, should avoid entheogens, except when mediated by a professional.


Test 5 - Demonstration of cerebro-activating effect in humans


"In a single-blind controlled study the pharmaco-EEG, duration of spiral after-effect (SAE), profile of mood state (POMS), MAO activity (cf. 2), and blood pressure were assessed after the administration of 50 g black currant juice concentrate (5.5-fold) in comparison with orange juice as placebo."

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdes?IDX=EP0531155&QPN=EP0531155

"Ribena is a brand of uncarbonated soft drink made by GlaxoSmithKline GlaxoSmithKline, containing blackcurrant juice. The blackcurrant is a temperate shrub which produces small edible berries with a high natural vitamin C content, which are very dark purple/blue in colour?almost black?hence the name. The drink was launched in the 1930s and it was given the name Ribena, from the botanical name for the blackcurrant, Ribes nigrum in 1938. Blackcurrants are a rich source of Vitamin C.

Today Ribena is sold as a cordial and also pre-diluted and marketed in a large variety of flavours (e.g. Blackcurrant, Strawberry and Apple)."
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ribena
Ribena Concentrate:

Ribena: http://www.ribena.co.uk/

# MAOIs in Combination with Psychedelics
Generally increase the effects of the psychedelic significantly. Be extremely careful.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info8.shtml

Mushrooms Dosage calculator multiplies 2X the effect when using MAOIs.
http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/sty/print/spl/0/par/12195/

Are we talking now of a 5X effect with lemon juice plus 2X with Black Currant = 10X EFFECT??

Has anybody tried BLACK CURRANT juice yet? Now THIS together with lemon juice might be THE thing.



IMPORTANT INFORMATION. DO the test with an EMPTY stomach.
As per http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info2.shtml

FOODS TO AVOID with MAOIs

  # Alcoholic beverages Avoid Chianti wine and vermouth.
  # Consumption of red, white, and port wine in quantities less than 120 mL present little risk (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986).
  # Beer and ale should also be avoided (McCabe, 1986), however other investigators feel major domestic (US) brands of beer is safe in small quantities (? cup or less than 120 mL) (Anon, 1989; Da Prada, 1988), but imported beer should not be consumed unless a specific brand is known to be safe.
  # Whiskey and liqueurs such as Drambuie and Chartreuse have caused reactions.
  # Nonalcoholic beverages (alcohol-free beer and wines) may contain tyramine and should be avoided (Anon, 1989; Stockley, 1993).

  # Banana peels A single case report implicates a banana as the causative agent, which involved the consumption of whole stewed green banana, including the peel. Ripe banana pulp contains 7 ?g/gram of tyramine compared to a peel which contains 65 ?g/gram and 700 ?g of tyramine and dopamine, respectively (McCabe, 1986).

  # Bean curd Fermented bean curd, fermented soya bean, soya bean pastes contain a significant amount of tyramine (Anon, 1989).

  # Broad (fava) bean pods These beans contain dopa, not tyramine, which is metabolized to dopamine and may cause a pressor reaction and therefore should not be eaten particularly if overripe (McCabe, 1986; Anon, 1989; Brown & Bryant, 1988).

  # Cheese Tyramine content cannot be predicted based on appearance, flavor, or variety and therefore should be avoided.
  # Cream cheese and cottage cheese have no detectable level of tyramine (McCabe, 1986; Anon, 1989, Brown & Bryant, 1988).

  # Fish Fresh fish (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986) and vacuum-packed pickled fish or caviar contain only small amounts of tyramine and are safe if consumed promptly or refrigerated for short periods; longer storage may be dangerous (Anon, 1989).
  # Smoked, fermented, pickled (Herring) and otherwise aged fish, meat, or any spoiled food may contain high levels of tyramine and should be avoided (Anon, 1989; Brown & Bryant, 1988).

  # Ginseng Some preparations have resulted in a headache, tremulousness, and manic-like symptoms (Anon, 1989).

  # Protein extracts Three brands of meat extract contained 95, 206, and 304 ?g/gram of tyramine and therefore meat extracts should be avoided (McCabe, 1986).
  # Avoid liquid and powdered protein dietary supplements (Anon, 1989).

  # Meat nonfresh or liver
  # no detectable levels identified in fresh chicken livers
  # high tyramine content found in spoiled or unfresh livers (McCabe, 1986).
  # Fresh meat is safe, caution suggested in restaurants (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988).
  # Sausage, bologna, pepperoni and salami contain large amounts of tyramine (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986).
  # No detectable tyramine levels were identified in country cured ham (McCabe, 1986).

  # Sauerkraut Tyramine content has varied from 20 to 95 ?g/gram and should be avoided (McCabe, 1986).

  # Shrimp paste Contain a large amount of tyramine (Anon, 1989).

  # Soups Should be avoided as protein extracts may be present; miso soup is prepared from fermented bean curd and contain tyramine in large amounts and should not be consumed (Anon, 1989).

  # Yeast Brewer's or extracts - yeast extracts (Marmite) which are spread on bread or mixed with water,
  # Brewer's yeast, or Yeast vitamin supplements should not be consumed.
  # Yeast used in baking is safe (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986).

The foods to use with caution list categorizes foods that have been reported to cause a hypertensive crisis if foods were consumed in large quantities, stored for prolong periods, or if contamination occurred. Small servings (? cup, or less than 120 mL) of the following foods are not expected to pose a risk for patients on MAOI therapy (McCabe, 1986).

FOODS TO USE WITH CAUTION
(? cup or less than 120 mL)

    Alcoholic beverages - see under foods to avoid.

    Avocados - contain tyramine, particularly overripe (Anon, 1989) but may be used in small amounts if not overripened (McCabe, 1986).

    Caffeine - contains a weak pressor agent, large amounts may cause a reaction (Anon, 1989).

    Chocolate - is safe to ingest for most patients, unless consumed in large amounts (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986).

    Dairy products - Cream, sour cream, cottage cheese, cream cheese, yogurt, or milk should pose little risk unless prolonged storage or lack of sanitation standards exists (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986). Products should not be used if close to the expiration date (McCabe, 1986).

    Nuts - large quantities of peanuts were implicated in a hypertensive reaction and headache. Coconuts and brazil nuts have also been implicated, however no analysis of the tyramine content was performed (McCabe, 1986).

    Raspberries - contain tyramine and small amounts are expected to be safe (McCabe, 1986).

    Soy sauce - has been reported to contain large amounts of tyramine and reactions have been reported with teriyaki (Anon, 1989), however analysis of soy sauce reveals a tyramine level of 1.76 ?g/mL and fermented meat may have contributed to the previously reported reactions (McCabe, 1986).

    Spinach, New Zealand prickly or hot weather - large amounts have resulted in a reaction (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986).

DRUGS to AVOID with MAOIs. If you are on medication please DO NOT try this!
As per http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info3.shtml

To be as safe as possible, avoid the following drugs while you are taking an MAOI antidepressant and for two weeks after stopping it.

    * All SSRIs (prozac, zoloft, and several other anti-depressants)
      SSRIs block the reuptake of serotonin in the brain. Because MAOIs inhibit the breakdown of serotonin, the combination of MAOIs and SSRIs can lead to dangerously high levels of serotonin in the brain (serotonin syndrome). Symptoms of serotonin syndrome include nausea, vomiting, blackouts, memory loss, increased blood pressure and increased heart rate.
    * Demerol
    * Cold preparations (tablets, capsules, or liquids such as Comtrex)
    * Cough medications containing decongestants, Dextromethorphan (DXM)1, or Demerol
    * Sinus medications
    * Nose drops or nasal sprays
    * Nasal decongestants
    * Hay fever medications
    * Diet pills
    * Amphetamines --- speed
    * MDMA --- Ecstasy
    * MDE, MDA, and other "MD" compounds
    * Cocaine --- crack

MAOIs can and will dramatically increase the effects of some of these drugs to the point of becoming dangerous. Other plants and chemicals are intentionally combined with some reversible MAOIs (plants such as Syrian Rue or Banisteriopsis Caapi, or their primary active chemicals the harmala alkaloids) to intentionally increase the effects of chemicals such as DMT (as is done in many forms of the ayahuasca brew) or sometimes phenethylamines such as Mescaline or 2-CB. All of these "potentiating" combinations can be dangerous if used improperly.


** Further studies related with Black Currant juice **

Effect of blackcurrant-, cranberry- and plum juice consumption on risk factors associated with kidney stone formation.
Kessler T, Jansen B, Hesse A.
Division of Experimental Urology, Department of Urology, University of Bonn, Bonn, Germany.
Eur J Clin Nutr. 2002 Oct;56(10):1020-3

Blackcurrant juice increased the urinary pH and the excretion of citric acid. The excretion of oxalic acid was increased too.

CONCLUSION: It is concluded that blackcurrant juice could support the treatment and metaphylaxis of uric acid stone disease because of its alkalizing effect.
http://www.anti-aging-guide.com/41fruits.php



Also, the concentration of juice has to be known beforehand and before measuring the amount to drink.
As per http://www.ribena.ie/about_ribena/products.html,

Ribena Concentrate
(400ml, 600ml, 1 litre, 2 litre): Original Blackcurrant
"At our recommended dilution rate, you can get around 33 servings from a 1 litre bottle ? so a little Ribena goes a long, long way."
I don't know what's the dilution rate they are recommending.

I'm taking as the typical serving 1 glass of juice = 300 cc. of juice.
that means, at their recommended dilution rate, I'm guessing:
1000 cc / 33 servings =  30.3 cc. recommended / glass = a 10X concentrate?

Anybody can please check this and see if we are talking about a 5.5X, a 10X concentrate or what.

Ribena is recommended unless anybody finds a stronger concentrate.

Really Light Blackcurrant Squash 1 litre should be the strongest one (name is due only to lower sugar content).
It's Blackcurrant Juice from Concentrate (7%) (once diluted on 5X water)
Product before dilution contains 35% juice.

50 gr. of 5.5X concentrate used in the Patent equals = 275 gr. of Pure juice.
To get 275 gr. of Pure juice, diluted 35% we need:

350 gr. pure per 1000 gr.
275 gr. pure -> (1000*275)/350 = 785 gr. of concentrate.

That's 3/4 of a liter needed, unless someone finds a stronger concentrate.


http://www.ribena.co.uk/accessible/our_drinks/index.html

If it cannot be found, another brands found are:

Ribes

http://www.schilcherland.at/english/products/juice.htm#Ribes




Gummiberry Juice Song - Lyrics - Sheet Music
Take an ounce of bounce,
A pound of pounce,
And ripe gummiberries in varying amounts.
Dump them in a pot,
Stir 'rm till they're loose,
It's really something special,
It's gummiberry juice.

CHORUS:
Gummiberry, gummiberry juice,
Gummiberry, gummiberry juice,
We can bounce like kangaroos,
With gummiberry juice.

Berries in the pot,
Are extremely hot,
There's enough to last a week, and that is quite a lot!
But you'll have to wait,
For the concentrate,
It's extra-ordinary, and it tastes really great!
CHORUS
=============================================================
REPORTS

Incubaby_421

yes, it did work that AMAZINGLY WELL...
when i posted wow and the weird bird thing, i proceeded to melt into my computer monitor, wall paper flowers were growing, carpet was turnign into worms, im talking about fear and loathing shit, NEVER in my history of being bemushroomed have i hallucinated like that, NEVER
anyways

- Black Currant Juice brand: CurrantC
- Juice Quantity: 16 oz.
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 4 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop thrice before.
- Hours since last meal: 7 h.
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice:umm... these are relativly potent shrooms, but, god damn, that was more like 6 hits of acid than an eighth of shrooms
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: i have never done shrooms with only lemon or lime, but i did this time, plus the juice, id say that 10x would be a pretty accurate multiplication of the effects... at one point in time i went across the dark house to get some rainbow sherbert, the darkness was just one big ass hyallucination... amazing...
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): yes
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 45 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 60 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 4! hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4 1/4 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience:
i just want to say this is by far the hardest i have ever tripped off of anyhting, newbies BE CAREFULL, i have been there, ive ate ounces that didnt do that much before, this could definitly take someone to a very bad place



Schneck
- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: I have been tripping on mushrooms for 2 years - 20-30? trips. 2 LSD trips. 20-30 Salvia experiences (plain leaf?5x-10x-20x). Ololiuqui seeds ? 10 seeds just once. 2 Iboga powder trips (8g, 20g). Lots of herbal psychoactive experiments. Hash ? hundreds of times. Cannabis drunk and eaten ? hundreds of times. When I was younger I tried everything that was available: barbiturates, opium smoked/eaten/intravenuously, acetone inhalations and lots of other bullshit. I?m a proud pot smoker for roughly 24 years.
- Days since last trip on psychedelics: 5 weeks ago - Ps.cub 3g dry + 3g Syrian rue; 4 weeks ago - 20g iboga powder; 2 weeks ago - 3g Syrian rue + 10g MHRB
- Black Currant Juice brand: about 200-250g fresh (frozen) berries mixed with 1 cup of Ribena Original (6%) - - Juice Quantity: 400-450 g
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis homegrown
- Mushrooms Quantity: appr. 14 gr. fresh
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): No, my first crop.
- Hours since last meal: 24 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): No, mixed in a blender with lemon and grapefruit juice
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, for 30 minutes, 250ml pure lemon juice + 200ml grapefruit juice.
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): ABSOLUTELY
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 3X-4X
- Estimated total potency: 6X-10X?
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 10 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 15-20 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 2-4 hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 6 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 12 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience:
This time it was like never before. I was swept, trampled, smashed and humiliated. I am terrified with a thought that I could take 2 cups at once. That was a real near and beyond death experience, both spiritually and physically.
Yes, black currant works. But people, DO BE CAREFUL.



Fospher

- Black Currant Juice brand: 'Looza' Blackcurrant nectar All natural ingredients, no preservatives
Sold in US - retailer: Michael's Organic Market
30% juice, Drank a liter each with 2 other trippers (833.3mL is the dose with 30%).
- Juice Quantity: 1L
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 1.6 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, potent stuff.
- Hours since last meal: 7 h.
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice: I could tell the difference between that and just the 'lemon juiced' trip, but not much trip amplitude difference.
Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: See above.
Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): Barely.
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: ~ .5x
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: ^^
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 15 mins. Kicked in in a snap. Me, and two other trippers doing the same thing as me tripped hardest during the first hour. So we peaked right away, and then went on on a downward slope of 'shroomage'. Haha.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 15 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): ~ 25 minutes.
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: Hard to tell, maybe 5 hours in?
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours, but I was at an EDM party, and the music always keeps me going.
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience: I dont know why this didnt work as well as everyone else said it did. I didnt eat a thing all day, and neither did the other 2 trippers. Definetly tripped harder than Lemon/Lime trip, but not that big of a difference.


Forkbender

- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: Been tripping for 3 years now, only for spiritual development. Shrooms 10x plus a bunch of one-timers: ayahuasca, morning glory, salvia and MDMA.
- Days since last trip on psychedelics: 2 weeks ago, MDMA. 6 weeks ago, Salvia. 8 weeks ago, morning glory..
- Black Currant Juice brand: Natufood 100% pure Black Currant Juice
- What reads the concentration on the label?: 100%
- Juice Quantity: 275 ml as prescribed. I diluted most of it with about 50 ml of water, because the first gulp hurt the back of my throat.
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 1.5 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): No, just bought them a week ago.
- Hours since last meal: 16 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): I don't have a grinder, cut the up real fine with a big knife.
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, for 10 minutes, squeezed 1 lemon and a half.
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice: Stronger, faster, deeper
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: No experience with just lemon/lime
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): Yes, level 4 with just a gram and a half.
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: -
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: -
- Estimated total potency: 5x (?)
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 20 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 30 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 1 hour (!)
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 5 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 8 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience: It was really hard integrating the experience. Got a big headache the day after, because I forgot to drink for the first four hours (I was gone). It was my first trip all by myself, felt great. I talked a lot to myself though, sounded like upanishads to me. The love of seeing the interplay between being and becoming, seeing that it's all the same was pretty gorgeous. It was during the daytime, which anoyed me a bit, so next time I'll prefer the dark. Next time is gonna be a couple of months away. Had enough for a while.

ayjay101

- How experienced are you with psychedelics?:
- Days since last trip on psychedelics:
- Black Currant Juice brand: Bickford's Gold
- What reads the concentration on the label?: 50%
- Juice Quantity: 550g
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis (Golden Teacher)
- Mushrooms Quantity: 1.1 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, good potency.
- Hours since last meal: 9 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N):
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N):
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice: seemed to be deeper, for a shorter time
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: N/A
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): Yes. (even though vomiting probably made it weaker)
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 2X - 2.5X (but vomited!)
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: N/A
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 50 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 60 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 70 mins
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 95 mins
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 4 hrs


=============================================================


Edited by infinitedot (01/22/06 01:22 PM)


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4950950 - 11/18/05 11:16 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Black Currant juice is an MAOI?! Wow, I've never heard of that before.

I'm very interested on whether anyone here has tried it.

Have you tried it? Maybe I'll try it in the near future. How long before I eat the mushrooms should I drink the black currant juice?

I'll have to pick some up.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4950958 - 11/18/05 11:23 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting post..personally I dont like inhibiting different things, so I dont know about MAOI's, I can take a dose of acid and get the trip I want as it is, as hard or easy.

I did like this though:
"Albert Hoffman [the discoverer of LSD] told me about it with reference to LSD, and he said that there are some receptors that it speeds up, and now we do it with MDMA and it seems to me that it works. They always have to take their orange juice, their pills and the chocolate. I think it has something to do with endorphines."

Chocolate makes sense that it would raise endorphines and invite for a more pleasurable time, although not really stronger.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4952164 - 11/18/05 05:10 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
Black Currant juice is an MAOI?! Wow, I've never heard of that before.

I'm very interested on whether anyone here has tried it.

Have you tried it? Maybe I'll try it in the near future. How long before I eat the mushrooms should I drink the black currant juice?

I'll have to pick some up.




No, I haven't tried it, and I'm not planning any trips in the near future for now. I have tried 30 gr. fresh of Pan. cyans WITH Orange Juice, after 3 days of fasting and mild meditation, taking care of set and setting and it was totally a life changing experience.

But 30 gr. of cyans should be enough by themselves.

An IMPORTANT note regarding this:

Yes, please do NOT mix MAOIs (Black Currant juice) with MDMA.

But MAOI's + psychedellics is the basic principle of Banisteropsis Caapi, the Ayahuasca beverage.

I think that we should compare Black currant and lemon juice by separate and then MIX both. With due care of course.

Keep in mind that this MIGHT have an unexepected STRONG effect, please be careful if you are planning to take Black Currant juice as a MAOI to test this!

Who has tried Lemon Juice before and is willing to try Black Currant and compare vs. Lemon Juice?

Experienced trippers if possible.


Edited by infinitedot (11/18/05 05:20 PM)


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OfflineIamthecheesegods
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4952219 - 11/18/05 05:20 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I might be able to do an experimental trip for you guys this weekend.
I've tried lime juice and an 8th with amazing results several times, and tripped on numerous substances for many years without lime juice.'
So I'd be willing to test this.
Once I acquire a stash and some black currant juice I will post here again.


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OfflinePsiledehysp
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4952220 - 11/18/05 05:20 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

One thing doesnt feel right here, for me. I wish with my whole heart :smile: for this to be working good - but with maoi you have to be very carefull what you eat since wrong kind of food (old cheese/wine/others?) can be very bad an even fatal!  But I vever heard of someone dying or even having any problem with blaccurrant juice + ordinary foods.

So how about that? Just a minor mao inhibition? But if so, this quote doesnt fit:

"50 grams of black currant juice concentrated 5.5 times inhibits 92% of MAO action"

I dont know much about subject, just tossing ideas - anyone has a take on this?


--------------------
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.
- Carl Gustav Jung


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Iamthecheesegods]
    #4952254 - 11/18/05 05:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks Iamthecheesegods.

Please, let's try to standardize this from start.

The study suggests 50gr. of 5.5x concentrate Black Currant juice for this.

Ribena concentrate should be the one to use, in order not to have different results depending on the brand. Lemon/lime juice is enough standard by itself, but different brands of Black Current juice might have different concentrations.

Please report like this, for instance:

Black Currant Juice brand: Ribena Concentrate / syrup / normal
Quantity: 50 grs.
Mushrooms species: Psylocybe Cubensis
Mushrooms Quantity: 3 gr. dry
Hours since last meal: 12 h.
Descriptions of effects compared to Lemon/Lime juice:

We'll be looking forward to your report.


Edited by infinitedot (11/18/05 05:35 PM)


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Psiledehysp]
    #4952281 - 11/18/05 05:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psiledehysp said:
One thing doesnt feel right here, for me. I wish with my whole heart :smile: for this to be working good - but with maoi you have to be very carefull what you eat since wrong kind of food (old cheese/wine/others?) can be very bad an even fatal!





I agree. This should be taken on an empty stomach. At least 8 hours before intake, 12 should be better, ideally 24 hours.

Quote:

Psiledehysp said:
  But I vever heard of someone dying or even having any problem with blaccurrant juice + ordinary foods.





Dying from black currant juice + ordinary foods??? I certainly haven't heard about that, else it would be obviously warned on a big label in the bottle, but please, if you anybody finds any further information, let us know.

Of course, don't even think to try this if you have got ANY kind of allergy to food. Just in case.

Please, let's be responsible, this might be STRONG, ok?

Quote:

Psiledehysp said:
So how about that? Just a minor mao inhibition? But if so, this quote doesnt fit:

"50 grams of black currant juice concentrated 5.5 times inhibits 92% of MAO action"





True, in fact it could be stronger than 2X. Please, don't take me for an expert about this, I have been reading a lot about psychedellics but *I am NOT* an expert whatsoever. Thanks for tossing the ideas Psiledehysp.


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OfflinePsiledehysp
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4952401 - 11/18/05 06:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"Dying from black currant juice + ordinary foods??? I certainly haven't heard about that, else it would be obviously warned on a big label in the bottle, but please, if you anybody finds any further information, let us know."

No no, I wasnt sugesting that people dies form this juice, only that if it is maoi thats what should be happening - thats how I understand maoi and some foods corelation.


--------------------
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.
- Carl Gustav Jung


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Psiledehysp]
    #4952441 - 11/18/05 06:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psiledehysp said:
No no, I wasnt sugesting that people dies form this juice, only that if it is maoi thats what should be happening - thats how I understand maoi and some foods corelation.




Oh, I understand now. I must *stress* that I'm *NO* expert about this. So please be responsible. I wouldn't want nothing nasty happening from this.

Black Currant has got also a HIGH content of Vitamin C. This might potentiate the effects if this was the case why it is working with lemon/lime and so on. BUT, being a MAOI is also ANOTHER quality, independent from Vitamin C.

I won't stress this enough. Please be careful. To the best of my knowledge, this hasn't been tested before with psychedellics.


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4952960 - 11/18/05 08:49 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

About Vitamin C contents:

FRUITS

RANKING
1 - Papaya
2 - Kiwi
3 - Orange
4 - Grapefruit
5 - Lemon
6 - Pineapple


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4953016 - 11/18/05 09:01 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

hmmm
i was planning on mush and lsd tomorow but if i can find some of this juice i may give it a shot


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4953207 - 11/18/05 09:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I just found out I also might be taking mushrooms tomorrow.

I want a strong experince, so I'm thinking maybe 3.5 grams + black currant juice. At worst it'll only feel like a 3.5 gram trip.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4953351 - 11/18/05 10:12 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
I just found out I also might be taking mushrooms tomorrow.

I want a strong experince, so I'm thinking maybe 3.5 grams + black currant juice. At worst it'll only feel like a 3.5 gram trip.




Hi HeavyToilet. Please, be careful and keep in mind that this hasn't been tested before. Also, I don't know if you can find Ribena in the US (I'm in UK). You'd need 3/4 of a liter of Ribena concentrate or 275 gr. of Pure Black Currant juice. Do your math for your brand once you know the juice content.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Psiledehysp]
    #4953397 - 11/18/05 10:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psiledehysp said:
"Dying from black currant juice + ordinary foods??? I certainly haven't heard about that, else it would be obviously warned on a big label in the bottle, but please, if you anybody finds any further information, let us know."

No no, I wasnt sugesting that people dies form this juice, only that if it is maoi thats what should be happening - thats how I understand maoi and some foods corelation.




You were in fact right Psiledehysp, I have updated the first post with the foods to avoid. Thanks!


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4953681 - 11/18/05 11:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

so heavytoilet gets a warning but not me, ok, i see how it is, nobody cares if i die....

if somebody else will promise too test this this weekend then i will do 2g with black currant juice and 2g with lemon juice....

IN THE PURSUIT OF SCIENCE!


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4954188 - 11/19/05 01:31 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

incubaby_421 said:
so heavytoilet gets a warning but not me, ok, i see how it is, nobody cares if i die....

if somebody else will promise too test this this weekend then i will do 2g with black currant juice and 2g with lemon juice....

IN THE PURSUIT OF SCIENCE!




lol seriously guys, please take it easy, nobody has tried this before!


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4954645 - 11/19/05 05:23 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well I dunno if I will.

I don't know the strength of these particular mushrooms. I haven't tried them yet. I wouldn't really be able to make an educated guess on if it was stronger or not.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4957828 - 11/19/05 11:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

ok ok god damn....
im drinking my juice right now, my cigarettes and beer are on their way, my mushrooms are sitting in a shot glass of lime juice rarin and ready to go,
giant purple hat, check
cd player, check
lots of incubus, check

ok, just waiting for the goods and my fellow tripper, he will be only using lime juice for a comparison

couldnt find suggested brands, so i bought the only one i found, after traveling to three different cities in search of, its called CurrantC, its a 16oz. bottle and is 37% juice, pretty fucking tasty, i might add...

im guessing this isnt a very string MAOI b/c there is no warning on the bottle about certain meds or anything, just know my freinds, that this experiment is already fudged as i ate dinner at 5p.m.
its now 12 and prolly wont take shrooms for another hour, but, i didnt drink the juice very long before hand, and i havent been fasting, but i am deprived of sleep, we'll see how it goes!

dont worry dot, its safe to say ive been around the block a couple of times, if i had to guess somewhere between 250-300 trips in 5 years, so its safe to say its pretty well known territory, and ive ate from this particular bag of shroomage 3 times, so i know there potency, which is pretty fucking high...

im due for a mind blow though...

ill be sure to let yall know how i fared tomorow!

love and light!


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4957988 - 11/20/05 12:42 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I guess you probably wont be able to accurately judge if it is an MAOI or not, huh?


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4958010 - 11/20/05 12:45 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

no, but what the hell...
worth a shot right?
i can always buy more juice another time,
and i always buy more shrooms


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4958103 - 11/20/05 01:11 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

ITS BEEN DONE!
IM OFF!
more tomorow


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4958558 - 11/20/05 03:12 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
:freakybirdthing:


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4960140 - 11/20/05 04:09 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

holy jesus fucking christ
i just want to say
i love you guys
i needed that... and it comes highly recomended...
it works.... it all works


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4960318 - 11/20/05 04:49 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i know this may sound stupid but what are MAOI's?


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4960357 - 11/20/05 05:01 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

incubaby_421 said:
holy jesus fucking christ
i just want to say
i love you guys
i needed that... and it comes highly recomended...
it works.... it all works




Incubaby, DID IT WORK that amazingly GOOD!??

You seem like an experienced tripper then, GOOD.

Can you please write a report for us like this?

Thanks mate!  :thumbup:

Black Currant Juice brand: Really Light Blackcurrant Squash
Juice Quantity: 750 gr. = 24 oz.(cc. if we assume 1 gr roughly = 1 cc.)
Mushrooms species: Psylocybe Cubensis
Mushrooms Quantity: 3 gr. dry
Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop twice before.
Hours since last meal: 12 h.
Description of effects compared vs. no juice:
Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice:
Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N):
Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X
Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 20 mins.
Time to onset of visual disturbance: 45 mins.
Time to peak (rough estimate): 2 hours
Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 5 hours
Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours



Edited by infinitedot (11/20/05 07:45 PM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: MxIndustry]
    #4960386 - 11/20/05 05:11 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MxIndustry said:
i know this may sound stupid but what are MAOI's?




Don't worry MxIndustry. It's a good question.

I'm going to update the first post with further links. Check these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor - Wikipedia
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml - MAOIs, Erowid
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n1/06158mao.html - MAOI Contraindications
http://peyote.com/jonstef/maois.htm - Harmala in Syrian Rue as MAOI
http://www.acacialand.com/syrian.html - "Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo both claimed that, owing to rue's metaphysical powers, their eyesight and creative inner vision had been improved."


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4960629 - 11/20/05 06:20 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
I guess you probably wont be able to accurately judge if it is an MAOI or not, huh?




Just a minor clarification. There are no brands that are or are not MAOI. ALL Black Currant juices brand are MAOIs, it's the concentration of the juice that determines the potency of it.

Just thought I'd clarify that. Be safe guys.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4960691 - 11/20/05 06:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I'd like to see more experiences with it. Seems too good to be true.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4960976 - 11/20/05 08:04 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

To tell you the truth first time i hear about Black currant's MAOI properties if indeed they exist...

Some question that either noone thought to ask or noone bothered so far to do so....

IF blackcurrant juice has MAOI properties then :

a) What type of MAOI does it contain? Irreversible? Reversible? Selective? Non-Selective? And which form of MAO enzyme does it inhibit

b) Has the specific compound reputed to exert such an action in this juice been indentified? IF so what is its name?


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Psiloman]
    #4961023 - 11/20/05 08:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

By the way here is a chemical analysis of the plant : http://sun.ars-grin.gov:8080/npgspub/xsql/duke/plantdisp.xsql?taxon=858

Looking up the activities of the plant two compounds show up that Dr Duke assigns them MAO-A inhibitor properties : Quercetin and Quercitrin.Also an extra one is listed as "MAO Inhibitor" (without further specification) : Kaempferol

So... i will run some searches on them to see what they are exactly.Feel free to do the same


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Psiloman]
    #4961044 - 11/20/05 08:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psiloman said:
By the way here is a chemical analysis of the plant : http://sun.ars-grin.gov:8080/npgspub/xsql/duke/plantdisp.xsql?taxon=858

Looking up the activities of the plant two compounds show up that Dr Duke assigns them MAO-A inhibitor properties : Quercetin and Quercitrin.Also an extra one is listed as "MAO Inhibitor" (without further specification) : Kaempferol

So... i will run some searches on them to see what they are exactly.Feel free to do the same




Everything is in the patent.
http://tinyurl.com/aun6x

Test 1--Demonstration of MAO-Inhibiting Action In Vitro

The test was carried out using a concentrate of black currant juice in 5.5-fold concentration. After adjustment of the pH to 7.2, one aliquot (40 .mu.l) was pre-incubated with the enzyme (1 mg mitochondrial protein, rat liver) for 20 minutes at room temperature. For determination of monoamine oxidase (MAO) type A and B activity, the reaction was started by adding 50 nmol @14 C benzylamine or @14 C serotonin. After one minute of incubation in a shaking water bath (37 DEG C.), the reaction was stopped (1 ml perchloric acid, 0.5M), the acidic and neutral deaminated products being determined after separation by ion-exchange chromatography.

The effect of the juice concentrate is described in percent of inhibition, related to a similarly-incubated buffer control.

Result

The black currant concentrate effects a 61% inhibition of MAO type B, and an 37% inhibition of MAO type A.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Psiloman]
    #4961054 - 11/20/05 08:23 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psiloman said:
By the way here is a chemical analysis of the plant : http://sun.ars-grin.gov:8080/npgspub/xsql/duke/plantdisp.xsql?taxon=858




Interesting info indeed. I'll see what do I come up with too. Thanks psiloman.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4961125 - 11/20/05 08:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I found something interesting.

"the glycoside quercetin in GB has been shown to increase cerebral blood flow and augment cerebral function"

http://www.iamse.org/jiamse/volume12/12_19-27.pdf

And even more, this seems to be present on GINKGO BILOBA too (Maidenhair tree, Kew tree).

Ginkgo biloba + mushrooms =  :mushroom2:

Never heard of anybody trying that before.

Also present on ST. JOHN?S WORT, the popular Hypericum.

"SJW components appear to be free of the side effects associated with TCA or MAOI (MAO inhibitor)classes of drugs."

We might be onto a new way of tripping on mushrooms.


Edited by infinitedot (11/20/05 08:53 PM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4961150 - 11/20/05 08:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Back with some more info

On Qercetin :Apparently its a bioflavonoid ,which amongst others exhibits free radical scavenging activities (antioxidant).It exists even in apples (dont know what quantities) and in Ginko biloba. Its MAO activities have been documented also it was found to cause COMT inhibition.

Some refferences on it :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...1835&query_hl=4

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...358&query_hl=13

A less informative but more "pop" source on it : http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,10053,00.html

And some more : http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupplements/Quercetincs.html

And lets not forget Kaempferol...Antioxidant with neuroprotective action (at least in the way used in the refference i provide) plus some MAO inhibition properties : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...3558&query_hl=4

EDIT:

Also what the "layman" should keep in mind: Its not only the presence of a substance that guarantees or denies a resutl.Its also the concentration that it is present. For example DMT could be found in lets say...tomatoes.But it could be found in lets say a microgram per kilo of tomatoes,so its not of use.So in the case talked here one should see what is the active dose for the compounds discussed here and the concentrations in the plants in question.


Edited by Psiloman (11/20/05 08:45 PM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Psiloman]
    #4961182 - 11/20/05 08:45 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Nice research psiloman! Apples. Now apple juice might come next if this is confirmed to be active there in enough quantities too.

I'll keep on researching. Nice job.  :thumbup:


Edited by infinitedot (11/20/05 08:47 PM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4961221 - 11/20/05 08:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Another study on Hypericum as MAOI.

Hypericum perforatum extracts as potential antidepressants.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...9&dopt=Abstract


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4961258 - 11/20/05 08:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"Experts Reconfirm Safety and Benefits of St. John's Wort for
Combating Mild to Moderate Symptoms of Depression"
http://www.crnusa.org/pdfs/crnsjwtranscripts062501.pdf


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4961282 - 11/20/05 09:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Siberian Ginseng, Ginkgo Biloba, 5HTP, SAMe and St. John's Wort as natural MAOIs.
http://www.depressionremedy.com/herbal_and_natural_remedies.php


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4961301 - 11/20/05 09:07 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"In November of 1997, the Minneapolis Star-Tribune published
an editorial from physician Mary Arneson reporting a stroke
in an elderly woman who was using St. John's wort."
http://www.adbiotk.com/wort.html

I'd be willing to bet that mushrooms + St. John's wort tea would improve its potency too.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4961302 - 11/20/05 09:08 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting.

You know, I don't know very much about MAO-As. But apparently: "MAO-A mainly breaks down the neurochemicals serotonin and norepinephrine."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAO-A

Is that... safe? What kind of changes could that lead to?


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4961313 - 11/20/05 09:11 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"There are also two types of MAO: MAO-A and MAO-B. MAO
inhibitors can inhibit only one of the above, or can inhibit
both. MAO-A works on serotonin and norepinephrine and is the
only type of MAO involved in antidepressant effects. MAO-B
inhibits other amines found in the brain, notably dopamine and
phenylethylamine. Agents that inhibit only MAO-A have far less
potential for causing a hypertensive crisis than agents that
inhibit both MAO-A and MAO-B. [24]

The MAOI in crude St. John's wort appears to be of the more
dangerous, irreversible form and inhibits both MAO-A and
MAO-B in vivo (in living organisms). [1,12] It appears to be
weak but people have varying sensitivity to MAOIs due to
individual quirks of body chemistry."

http://www.adbiotk.com/wort.html

St. John's wort + mushrooms has to work.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4961334 - 11/20/05 09:16 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
Interesting.

You know, I don't know very much about MAO-As. But apparently: "MAO-A mainly breaks down the neurochemicals serotonin and norepinephrine."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAO-A

Is that... safe? What kind of changes could that lead to?




Exactly as it says, let's keep it handy for others who want to check what we are talking about too:

"MAO-A is an abbreviation for 'monoamine oxidase A'. There are 2 varieties of monoamine oxidase, which are MAO-A and MAO-B. MAO-A mainly breaks down the neurochemicals serotonin and norepinephrine, whereas MAO-B mainly breaks down the neurochemicals dopamine and phenylethylamine."

They act within the brain to increase the amount of the neurotransmitter, serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine or 5-HT), in the synaptic gap by inhibiting its reuptake.

To cut a long story short, psychedelics + MAOI's = stronger effects.


Edited by infinitedot (11/20/05 09:16 PM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4961352 - 11/20/05 09:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
Is that... safe? What kind of changes could that lead to?




Good question for anybody who is willing to safely and responsibly consider this. Read on:

"SSRIs are frequently prescribed for anxiety disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and eating disorders. Though not specifically indicated by the manufacturers, they are also sometimes prescribed to treat irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). Additionally, SSRIs have been found to be effective in treating premature ejaculation in up to 60% of men.

SSRIs are not addictive in the strict sense of the word (i.e. animals given free access to the drug do not actively seek it out and do not seek to increase the dose), but suddenly discontinuing their use is known to produce both somatic and psychological withdrawal symptoms, a phenomenon known as "SSRI discontinuation syndrome" (Tamam & Ozpoyraz, 2002). Compared to the withdrawal symptoms of such drugs as opiates, alcohol, or cocaine, these are slight, although the prescribing labels acknowledge the possibility of "intolerable" discontinuation reactions."

Basically, you wouldn't get "hooked" on MAOIs just with a random trips on them every now and then. But there's a chance of developing symptons on a continued use.

So that everyone understands a bit better, the most popular of these MAOIs is Prozac.


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4961353 - 11/20/05 09:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I know that they cause twice the effect.

But is it worth it? Does your brain just go back to normal after? Is it alright to have these imbalances in chemicals that your brain needs?

Quote:

Tyramine is an amino acid which is normally metabolized by MAO in the
gut. After taking tranylcypromine or phenelzine (but not, apparently,
moclobemide) this MAO is inhibited and any dietary Tyramine will not be
metabolized and will cause an increase in tyramine levels in blood. This
is bad due to tyramine's effect on norepinephrine and leads to a
hypertensive crisis. Blood pressure goes up to 180+ over something,
heartbeat goes to well over 100 bpm, and people who suffer one of these
typically report getting the most painful headache of their lives. Sometimes
a Ca-blocker like nifedipine is prescribed for the user of the MAOI to
take to combat this effect should it occur.




And what about this business with not being able to consume tyramine without going into hypertensive crisis? It sounds like you really have to watch what you eat around the time of taking MAOIs.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4961361 - 11/20/05 09:23 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

infinitedot said:
Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
Is that... safe? What kind of changes could that lead to?




Good question for anybody who is willing to safely and responsibly consider this. Read on:

"SSRIs are frequently prescribed for anxiety disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and eating disorders. Though not specifically indicated by the manufacturers, they are also sometimes prescribed to treat irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). Additionally, SSRIs have been found to be effective in treating premature ejaculation in up to 60% of men.

SSRIs are not addictive in the strict sense of the word (i.e. animals given free access to the drug do not actively seek it out and do not seek to increase the dose), but suddenly discontinuing their use is known to produce both somatic and psychological withdrawal symptoms, a phenomenon known as "SSRI discontinuation syndrome" (Tamam & Ozpoyraz, 2002). Compared to the withdrawal symptoms of such drugs as opiates, alcohol, or cocaine, these are slight, although the prescribing labels acknowledge the possibility of "intolerable" discontinuation reactions."

Basically, you wouldn't get "hooked" on MAOIs just with a random trips on them every now and then. But there's a chance of developing symptons on a continued use.

So that everyone understands a bit better, the most popular of these MAOIs is Prozac.




What do you mean? What do SSRIs have to do with MAOIs? And Prozac is an SSRI, not an MAOI.


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4961377 - 11/20/05 09:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
I know that they cause twice the effect.

But is it worth it? Does your brain just go back to normal after? Is it alright to have these imbalances in chemicals that your brain needs?

Quote:

Tyramine is an amino acid which is normally metabolized by MAO in the
gut.  After taking tranylcypromine or phenelzine (but not, apparently,
moclobemide) this MAO is inhibited and any dietary Tyramine will not be
metabolized and will cause an increase in tyramine levels in blood.  This
is bad due to tyramine's effect on norepinephrine and leads to a
hypertensive crisis.  Blood pressure goes up to 180+ over something,
heartbeat goes to well over 100 bpm, and people who suffer one of these
typically report getting the most painful headache of their lives.  Sometimes
a Ca-blocker like nifedipine is prescribed for the user of the MAOI to
take to combat this effect should it occur.




And what about this business with not being able to consume tyramine without going into hypertensive crisis? It sounds like you really have to watch what you eat around the time of taking MAOIs.




Correct. You have to. That is why it is so important to test this on an empty stomach. On a paper they say that only 4% of the people who mix MAOIs with some particular kind of food might have health issues from it. But it's still a 4%. When it's you, you don't care about the other lucky 96% left.

About brain going back to "normal"...well...I've been asking myself what's the definiton of "normal" for some years from a philosophical point of view. "Normal" is a very blurred term. Any situation that has the possibility to change your life forever, like meeting the person of your life or skydiving, or that first kiss, changes your brain forever.

We are talking about drugs here. We should all keep this in mind. If the question is if it's within reasonably safe limits on a healthy person to test this, I'd say it is. But, again, do NOT take any decision just based on anybody's opinion. Be responsible and do your own research. This should apply to anything in life, but well... we know what we are dealing with.

Basically, my answer is, be responsible and read as much as you can before deciding on anything you do in life.  :thumbup:


Edited by infinitedot (11/20/05 09:30 PM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4961440 - 11/20/05 09:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well I'm having a hard time finding information for one time, or rare MAOI use.

Does anyone know if you're just going to just take it once (for a trip) how long before taking it you would have to not take those certain foods? Is it a matter of weeks? Hours? What about after taking it? How long would you have to wait before you could eat those foods again?


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4961450 - 11/20/05 09:40 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


And what about this business with not being able to consume tyramine without going into hypertensive crisis? It sounds like you really have to watch what you eat around the time of taking MAOIs.




This holds true ONLY for the very first pharmaceutical MAO inhibitors.This is caused by NON SELECTIVE, IRREVERSIBLE MAO INHIBITORS.Harmine and Harmaline for example DO NOT belong to this category as they are selective reversible MAO inhibitors.

So why is tyramine dangerous when on irreversible non selective MAOIs? As pharmacologists would say :Everything is toxic,at the correct dose. Same hold true with tyramine. It is toxic for you at certain levels that MAO enzyme does NOT let it to reach.

Quote:

But is it worth it? Does your brain just go back to normal after? Is it alright to have these imbalances in chemicals that your brain needs?




Heh...Well...By introducing psilocybin (something common for the shroomery members) to your brain do you know what happens to your neurotransmitters? To your serotonine? To your dopamine? To your glutamate? They all fluctuate,they are infuenced by this chemical indirectly ,because of cascades of signals and effects it exerts on they way the brain works by inding in your 5HT2a receptors.

Yes,with reversible selective inhibitors it goes back to normal. Even with irreversible it does only it takes some weeks...


Also Infinitedot said:

Quote:

To cut a long story short, psychedelics + MAOI's = stronger effects




Now here is something interesting i read : http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06332ott.html

Please read it ALL and comment on some points he made.Some characteristic points are :

Quote:

Moreover, there is experimental evidence that the pharmaceutical MAOI iproniazid (Marsilid) markedly inhibits the visionary effects of DMT injected intramuscularly. In seven subjects given intramuscular injections of DMT (two at 0.35-0.55 mg/kg; five at 0.65-0.83 mg/kg), greatly reduced psychoactivity was observed when the experiment was repeated two days after having received 100 mg iproniazid daily, for 4 days ("the DMT psychosis" was less pronounced; there were illusions and hallucinations, but without colours, or only with a few of them).(9) The author commented that the "high 5-HT [serotonin] level" produced by the MAOI blocked the effect of DMT, thought to owe its psychoactivity to serotonin antagonism - with higher background levels of serotonin, higher doses of DMT would be required to produce equivalent effects absent MAOI




also

Quote:

We thus have both experimental and anecdotal evidence that MAOI, far from potentiating LSD, rather seem to exert an effect parallel to that of DMT - blocker, serving also as LSD-blockers!




Also

Quote:

Nevertheless, inasmuch as so many people have avowed that Syrian rue seeds potentiate psilocybian mushrooms, there must be some truth to this. I am not claiming this is not true, only that we have no solid proof of this. Since data on related visionary tryptamines DMT and LSD suggest conventional wisdom on this point is wrong, any potentiation of psilocybin by MAOI would be an anomaly, hardly expected - certainly not to be taken for granted.




Interesting none the less....

By the way,some of the things as "remedies agaist depression" at a link you gave do not work as MAOI's...5HTP for example i think works as a precursor to serotonine rather than a MAOI.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Psiloman]
    #4961505 - 11/20/05 09:50 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Ah, ok, that's good news. So they're the same type of MAOI that is in harmine?

So it should, then, be perfectly fine to take with any food you'd normally eat. I guess the last questions I would like to ask then are, how long before taking mushrooms would you have to take the MAOI? And how long does the MAOI last for?


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4961663 - 11/20/05 10:36 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Alright well after looking around it seems like the time to take the MAOI would be half an hour or so before taking mushrooms.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4965103 - 11/21/05 07:08 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

yes, it did work that AMAZINGLY WELL...
when i posted wow and the weird bird thing, i proceeded to melt into my computer monitor, wall paper flowers were growing, carpet was turnign into worms, im talking about fear and loathing shit, NEVER in my history of being bemushroomed have i hallucinated like that, NEVER
anyways

Black Currant Juice brand: CurrantC
Juice Quantity: 16 oz.
Mushrooms species: Psylocybe Cubensis
Mushrooms Quantity: 4 gr. dry
Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop thrice before.
Hours since last meal: 7 h.
Description of effects compared vs. no juice:umm... these are relativly potent shrooms, but, god damn, that was more like 6 hits of acid than an eighth of shrooms
Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: i have never done shrooms with only lemon or lime, but i did this time, plus the juice, id say that 10x would be a pretty accurate multiplication of the effects... at one point in time i went across the dark house to get some rainbow sherbert, the darkness was just one big ass hyallucination... amazing...
Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): yes
Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X
Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 45 mins.
Time to onset of visual disturbance: 60 mins.
Time to peak (rough estimate): 4! hours
Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4 1/4 hours
Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours


i just want to say this is by far the hardest i have ever tripped off of anyhting, newbies BE CAREFULL, i have been there, ive ate ounces that didnt do that much before, this could definitly take someone to a very bad place


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



Edited by incubaby_421 (11/21/05 09:57 PM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4965263 - 11/21/05 07:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

2005, the year of the Mushroom :smile:


--------------------
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4965525 - 11/21/05 09:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I think its been overlooked that fruitjuices that inhibit the CYP3A4 enzyme through bioflavinoid action in conjunction with other elements of powdering psychoactives within juices, potentiates mushrooms to a far greater degree than does maoi's like harmala.

Likewise, Maoi's like harmala greatly potentiate DMT while fruit juices have never been reported to potentiate DMT, although this may be because it has never been done before [experiment in progress].

So one can start to see that certain potentiators work more effectively for certain chemicals, and not necessarily all chemicals, despite their chemical relativity. However, it can also be said that a combination of the two inhibitor classes could provide a greater span of inhibition producing broader spectrum of psychoactive effects. I personally would only use harmala when required, as in the case of oral DMT, as its a rather unpleasant psychoactive and requires fasting, but the combination of fruit juices and harmala could in fact lead to a more intense experience with oral DMT.

As it was said above, if blackcurrant juice served the same function as harmala, it wouldn't be sold to the public for consumption, or at least in the less developed countries, would require some sort of warning label, and if these governments were to fail at protecting the public all together, it would be common knowledge among the peoples of the world that blackcurrant and food will make you sick.

While it could be a weak maoi, in which case an inordanant amount would have to be consumed, it is far more likely to be serve the same function as the rest of its fruit juice cousins by inhibiting the CYP3A4 class enzyme and not the mao class enzyme.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: yousuck]
    #4965593 - 11/21/05 09:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

What would they have to warn against? They might have to put warnings on black currant juice if it contained non-selective irreversible MAOIs. But it sounds like the selective reversible MAO-As are pretty safe, and don't really have bad side effects.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4965629 - 11/21/05 09:56 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

could be for those taking SSRI's


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4965684 - 11/21/05 10:07 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

That's true.

Huh. I wonder.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4965755 - 11/21/05 10:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i e-mailed the company that makes this juice asking them if there was any truth to black currants having MAOI qualities, and that if it is true they should put some sort of warning on the bottle, but i dont think the FDA would allow them to market it without a warning if it were an MAOI... ill be sure to post thier reply if i get one,
something DEFINITLY happened though, what exactly that was i have no idea


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4965775 - 11/21/05 10:40 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

well I tried just the lemon juice with 1.5 p. cubensis yesterday. Good shit, but now I'm thinking whether I should try this black currant thing today....


Would it be safe to do this again tonight if I did some yesterday?


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: psychedelix]
    #4965782 - 11/21/05 10:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

how experienced are you?
i am VERY experienced, and i was frightened at times, which has never happened to me before, maybe try black currant juice without lemon or lime


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: psychedelix]
    #4965804 - 11/21/05 10:49 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You'd have a substantial tolerance if you did them today.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4965849 - 11/21/05 11:02 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

the likeliness of it all, is yes, you will have considerable tolerance, most do, some dont, but more than likely you will need to dose about twice as much as you did last night, if your in the states, the only store i could find the currant juice at was Tops


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4966432 - 11/22/05 01:13 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Have you ever done just lemon shrooms incubaby? I know just that was enough to almost freak me out, but I took my normal fun eaten dose hehe, and wasnt prepared.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4966688 - 11/22/05 02:22 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

incubaby_421 said:
yes, it did work that AMAZINGLY WELL...
when i posted wow and the weird bird thing, i proceeded to melt into my computer monitor, wall paper flowers were growing, carpet was turnign into worms, im talking about fear and loathing shit, NEVER  in my history of being bemushroomed have i hallucinated like that, NEVER
anyways

Black Currant Juice brand: CurrantC
Juice Quantity: 16 oz.
Mushrooms species: Psylocybe Cubensis
Mushrooms Quantity: 4 gr. dry
Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop thrice before.
Hours since last meal: 7 h.
Description of effects compared vs. no juice:umm... these are relativly potent shrooms, but, god damn, that was more like 6 hits of acid than an eighth of shrooms
Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: i have never done shrooms with only lemon or lime, but i did this time, plus the juice, id say that 10x would be a pretty accurate multiplication of the effects... at one point in time i went across the dark house to get some rainbow sherbert, the darkness was just one big ass hyallucination... amazing...
Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): yes
Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X
Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 45 mins.
Time to onset of visual disturbance: 60 mins.
Time to peak (rough estimate): 4! hours
Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4 1/4 hours
Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours


i just want to say this is by far the hardest i have ever tripped off of anyhting, newbies BE CAREFULL, i have been there, ive ate ounces that didnt do that much before, this could definitly take someone to a very bad place




All I can say is... Hats off to you mate!

I'm so glad. This is what communities are for.

After reading incubaby's report, PLEASE, be careful. Incubaby IS an experienced tripper and he claims to have had his strongest trip ever, after 250-300 trips. PLEASE, read the whole thread before considering doing anything. This is a SERIOUS warning.

Let's be responsible, ok?  :thumbup:

Keep us informed about that email incubaby.

Cheers!


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4966757 - 11/22/05 02:45 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

incubaby_421 said:

Black Currant Juice brand: CurrantC
Juice Quantity: 16 oz.
Mushrooms species: Psylocybe Cubensis
Mushrooms Quantity: 4 gr. dry
Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop thrice before.
Hours since last meal: 7 h.





Some question for you incubaby.

Can you describe the exact procedure you used to eat the mushrooms?
- You soaked the mushrooms in lemon/lime juice or you ate them while drinking black currant+lemon/lime juice at the same time?
- What amount of each lemon and/or lime juice did you use?
- If you soaked the mushrooms, for how long before eating them?

Thanks mate.


Edited by infinitedot (11/22/05 02:46 AM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Psiloman]
    #4966940 - 11/22/05 04:14 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psiloman said:
Now here is something interesting i read : http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06332ott.html

Quote:

Nevertheless, inasmuch as so many people have avowed that Syrian rue seeds potentiate psilocybian mushrooms, there must be some truth to this. I am not claiming this is not true, only that we have no solid proof of this. Since data on related visionary tryptamines DMT and LSD suggest conventional wisdom on this point is wrong, any potentiation of psilocybin by MAOI would be an anomaly, hardly expected - certainly not to be taken for granted.




Interesting none the less....






Now that was interesting. This might be in fact the confirmation and evidence needed that Jonathan Ott was right and that MAOI's might only work with mushrooms and maybe not with DMT, LSD and other psychedelics.

Is Jonathan Ott's email handy? Anyone? He might be interested in knowing about this.


Edited by infinitedot (11/22/05 04:16 AM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4967912 - 11/22/05 01:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I think I found something interesting. Anthocyanins present in Black Currants might explain the strong visuals, though some studies refute this.


Phenolic compounds in berries of black, red, green, and white currants (Ribes sp.).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...3993&query_hl=2

Our results suggest that anthocyanins dominate in black and red currants, whereas proanthocyanidins and phenolic acids are the predominant phenolic compounds in green and white currants.

Anthocyanins are the active component in several herbal folk medicines such as bilberry (Vaccinium myrtillus), which was used in the 12th century to induce menstruation and during World War II to improve British pilots' night vision.

Eyesight: Anthocyanins may also improve eyesight by other mechanisms. In a French study conducted in 1964, researchers vision-tested 36 people for their ability to adapt to light and dark both before and after taking bilberry anthocyanins. For several hours after supplementation, their eyesight improved significantly, although the effect wore off within 24 hours.17 A recent Japanese study found that people taking 50 mg, but not 20 mg, black currant anthocyanins adapted better to the dark and had less eye fatigue than those in the placebo group.18

Two recent tests on anthocyanins and vision have produced negative results. In 1999, Israeli researchers found that supplementation with 24 mg and 48 mg anthocyanins daily did not improve three measures of night vision: scotopic retinal threshold, dark adaptation rates, and mesoptic contrast sensitivity.19 Researchers in a NASA study found that using 40 mg bilberry anthocyanins had no effect in night vision, visual acuity, or contrast sensitivity compared with placebo.

http://www.newhope.com/nutritionsciencenews/NSN_backs/Dec_01/antho.cfm

A fifth RCT and 7 non-randomized controlled trials reported positive effects on outcome measures relevant to night vision.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...1439&query_hl=2


Edited by infinitedot (11/22/05 01:41 PM)


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4967989 - 11/22/05 02:01 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

This is probably the best blackcurrant juice on the market, Innocent "juicy water":



The ingredients as printed on the bottle:

spring water (79%)
38 squeezed blackcurrants (10%)
some natural sugar
and a dash of fresh lemon juice


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Revelation]
    #4968126 - 11/22/05 02:36 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Revelation said:
This is probably the best blackcurrant juice on the market, Innocent "juicy water":





Is there a concentrated version of that?

At 10% purity, you'd need to drink 2.75 liters to get the suggested 275ml. of pure juice :crazy:


Edited by infinitedot (11/22/05 02:38 PM)


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4968134 - 11/22/05 02:38 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Oh right my mistake, at least I know that stuff is no good now. Tasty though.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Revelation]
    #4968892 - 11/22/05 06:13 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

no email yet...
i filled up a dounle shot glass with lime juice concentrate, the kind in the little plastic lime...
i put my 4g in my coffee grinder and stirred it in with the juice, let it sit for about 10 mintes, and chugged,
i drank the currant juice about an hour beforehand


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4968905 - 11/22/05 06:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

and no, ive never tripped with only lemon/lime...
maybe i should for purposes of comparison...


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4969107 - 11/22/05 07:14 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

how much current c did you drink. and where did you buy the current c?


--------------------
"The answer is never the answer. What's really interesting is the mystery. If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking. I've never seen anybody really find the answer-- they think they have, so they stop thinking. But the job is to seek mystery, evoke mystery, plant a garden in which strange plants grow and mysteries bloom. The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer."

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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: kingfish4200]
    #4969120 - 11/22/05 07:17 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i bought a 16 oz. bottle at tops, it was like 3 bucks, i drank it all


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: yousuck]
    #4969225 - 11/22/05 07:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

yousuck said:
I think its been overlooked that fruitjuices that inhibit the CYP3A4 enzyme through bioflavinoid action in conjunction with other elements of powdering psychoactives within juices, potentiates mushrooms to a far greater degree than does maoi's like harmala.

Likewise, Maoi's like harmala greatly potentiate DMT while fruit juices have never been reported to potentiate DMT, although this may be because it has never been done before [experiment in progress].

While it could be a weak maoi, in which case an inordanant amount would have to be consumed, it is far more likely to be serve the same function as the rest of its fruit juice cousins by inhibiting the CYP3A4 class enzyme and not the mao class enzyme.




That's a very good point indeed. It's been pointed that DMT might be present in very small quantities in some particular mushrooms species. This might be related with CYP3A4 class enzyme instead of MAO ones.

DMT from mushrooms, now that might be indeed a quantum leap forward and might very well explain such a strong experience for incubaby.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4969236 - 11/22/05 07:39 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

incubaby_421 said:
i drank the currant juice about an hour beforehand




Thanks for this incubaby. I'm going to update the first post in order to suggest drinking it 1 hour beforehand then.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4970354 - 11/22/05 11:18 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i am here to help,
and to trip my ass off...
litteraly

thank YOU for this sugestion, i havent had introspection of that magnitude since i was getting my cherry popped...
YOU my freind, are a saint, i needed this worse than you could possibly know


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4970450 - 11/22/05 11:36 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

incubaby_421 said:
i am here to help,
and to trip my ass off...
litteraly

thank YOU for this sugestion, i havent had introspection of that magnitude since i was getting my cherry popped...
YOU my freind, are a saint, i needed this worse than you could possibly know




My friend, I'm really happy to hear that. If only all this served to make you feel like that, for me it was more than worth it.

I know what you mean too. I had a deep paradigm shift on 30gr. of panaeolus cyanescens + Orange juice and it was a life changing experience that I know is going to stay with me forever. I couldn't be more thankful to entheogens as a way for self-knowledge. It's a pity that the study of Consciousness is so forgotten these days, when we need so much to experience that we are indeed all One and the same.

Good vibes your way  :sun:


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4970497 - 11/22/05 11:42 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i just hate when you NEED into your brain but there seems to be something in the way...
you know though, i can tell...
your one of the select handfull that understand...
i need not say more....
but i suppose the answer is, when your brain says no, you say "fuck you" and blow its ass outta the water, granted this isnt an option for all...

the thought crossed my mind when i was laying in my room alone to eat the two doses of lucy i have left, but then i decided against it becuase it would botch the experiment even further,

none the less, thank you


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4970559 - 11/22/05 11:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

incubaby_421 said:
you know though, i can tell...
your one of the select handfull that understand...
i need not say more....





No need to explain any further. We know what we mean indeed.
I have much respect for entheogens. One of the most precious gifts on Earth. I hope lots of people benefit from this as well. You cannot change the world, but you can begin to change it. The only possible revolution begins with yourself.

Peace :mushroom2:


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4970711 - 11/23/05 12:19 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i wish all knew....
i was shown the light early into my reborn life...
and to know the truth... who could ask anything more?


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4971057 - 11/23/05 01:48 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I found something which might lead to even stronger visuals with BC juice.

Effect of enzyme-aided pressing on anthocyanin yield and profiles in bilberry and blackcurrant juices

Pectinex Ultra SP-L, Pectinex Smash, Pectinex BE 3-L and Biopectinase CCM increased the total content of anthocyanins by 13?41% in the bilberry juices and by 18?29% in the blackcurrant juices.

http://maxfun.vtt.fi/buchert_et_al.pdf

Pectinex Ultra SP-L, Pectinex Smash, Pectinex BE 3-L and Biopectinase CCM are genetically engineered enzymes.

It is speculated that Anthocyanins might play a major role in enhacing vision in the dark:

http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/FULL/Anthocyanins.html
Eyesight: Anthocyanins may also improve eyesight by other mechanisms. In a French study conducted in 1964, researchers vision-tested 36 people for their ability to adapt to light and dark both before and after taking bilberry anthocyanins. For several hours after supplementation, their eyesight improved significantly, although the effect wore off within 24 hours.17 A recent Japanese study found that people taking 50 mg, but not 20 mg, black currant anthocyanins adapted better to the dark and had less eye fatigue than those in the placebo group.18

Two recent tests on anthocyanins and vision have produced negative results. In 1999, Israeli researchers found that supplementation with 24 mg and 48 mg anthocyanins daily did not improve three measures of night vision: scotopic retinal threshold, dark adaptation rates, and mesoptic contrast sensitivity.19 Researchers in a NASA study found that using 40 mg bilberry anthocyanins had no effect in night vision, visual acuity, or contrast sensitivity compared with placebo.20.

There are two studies that seem to deny this though.

These enzymes are produced by http://www.novozymes.com/
Article on enzymes and Pectinex BE 3-L use with Black Currant Juice
Pushing enzymes to the limits
http://www.novozymes.com/cgi-bin/bvisapi.dll/biotimes/one_article.jsp?id=11392〈=en&t=b1


Edited by infinitedot (11/23/05 08:50 PM)


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4971474 - 11/23/05 04:47 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Why don't you just get syrian rue seeds, grind up 5 grams of them and put them into 5 000 capsules and swallow it for your MAOI? Seems much easier. Good information though here.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Fluxburn]
    #4971510 - 11/23/05 05:39 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Read this: http://www.erowid.org/plants/syrian_rue/syrian_rue_info3.shtml

Nauseas, ~2X. vs. no nauseas ~10X. And yummmy. You choose.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4972045 - 11/23/05 12:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

This is turning out to be interesting. Good work incubaby for trying first. Since you have never lemon/limed before, I would like to personally ask that you try that without black currant juice at a later time to have a comparison. I know that alone was enough to kick my butt the first time I did it. When we are talking about an increase of 3-10x, it can be difficult to judge correctly. You can't really say accurately that I am tripping 700% harder or 300% harder hehe. It is accepted that MAIOs can double the strength of a trip. The lemon method is still being investigated, but it seems to increase strength of a trip by 3-5x. When doing both, should the increases be multiplied or added? hehe. Added gives you 5-7x strength. Multiplied gives you 6-10x strength. This sub experiment is still in the very early stages, so a lot more work needs to be done. I would like to see someone use just black currant juice to see the effects of just that. Also, if you havent tried lemon/lime yet, I would like to ask that you try that first, before combining with black currant juice. So you can have an idea of what just lemon shrooms is like. Keep up the exploration and cooperation.


--------------------
If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4972060 - 11/23/05 12:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I would also really like to see more reports of the mushroom + black currant juice combination. I think taking those with the lemon juice just adds another variable, making it harder to say for certain whether or not the black currant juice increases effects.

I urge more experienced Shroomerites to try this method. I'm not sure when my next trip will be, but it probably wont be for a few weeks.

I think this is a pretty important discovery so I think this thread should be made a sticky while it's still under investigation.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4973614 - 11/23/05 08:45 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Good points Underhillmaster and HeavyToilet

A work hypothesis might be that these are two different actions.

- Acidic juice turns psilocybin into psilocin, ready to be ingested. The potency of this might be 3X-5X.
- MAOI doubles the effect, hence 6X-10X.

Orange juice has been almost always considered a myth. Maybe its pH isn't enough acidic to help here, in order to break the bonding of Phosphate of psilocybin to turn it into psilocin, or it has worked for some people and not for others because of its highly variant range: 3.30-4.19

Orange juice - 3.30-4.19
Black Currants pH is ~2.7
Lemon juice - pH 2.00-2.60
Lime juice - pH 2.00-2.35

Black currant is quite acidic as well, so this might help too. If there is a certain pH level required, let's say, pH of 3.35, then nothing over that would help OR it might begin the reaction but it might need longer time. This might be the explanation why Orange Juice has sometimes worked for some people and some others not: it's varying pH.

If that was the case, maybe Black Currant juice alone would be enough, leaving the mushrooms soaking on BC juice during that 1 hour of waiting after having drank the BC and before ingestion of the mushrooms.

Just some ideas.


Edited by infinitedot (11/23/05 10:05 PM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4973723 - 11/23/05 09:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

anyone seen this visual before while halucinating? i am very keen to talk to anyone who has....pat_magrath@yahoo.com.au


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: shroompower]
    #4974298 - 11/23/05 11:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

are you talking about the gears man?
did you post that in every thread?

anyways, well, as soon as johnny tallhat comes back around i will try both in absence of each other, a bit of a dry spell right now though, sad days when i can get acid by the bible but theres not a shroom to be found


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4974500 - 11/24/05 12:28 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

There is no reason to believe that anthocyanins or related substances will cause stronger visuals because they can enhance visual acuity. 'Visuals' from psychedelics are distortions in normal perception, not an enhancement.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Solutarch]
    #4974941 - 11/24/05 02:08 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Solutarch said:
There is no reason to believe that anthocyanins or related substances will cause stronger visuals because they can enhance visual acuity. 'Visuals' from psychedelics are distortions in normal perception, not an enhancement.




Agreed partially. A distortion over an enhanced perception might be different than from the original perception. In any case, there seem to be 2 studies who agree on anthocyanins and 2 which deny it. It would be just an added bonus.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4975681 - 11/24/05 11:50 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

On a related note, licorice root is known to have MAOI activity. It has been used to enhance San Pedro's effects. Licorice is also an excellent sweetener (it's said that it's 50 times sweeter than sugar) and used to help mask the bad flavors of other herbs. I have ordered some black currant juice concentrate from Naturesflavors.com. I understand that straight black currant isn't as sweet as other fruit juices so I might sweeten it up with a little licorice.

**Edit** I have also read that ginger (besides being good for reducing nausea) can lower the threshold at which some drugs become active. There are medical warnings to this effect. It is believed that ginger does not potentiates drugs in the manner of a MAOI, but instead helps to increase absorption in the GI tract. I will be experimenting with Licorice, Black Currant, Ginger and Passion Flower Tea with tryptamines in the coming months.


Edited by Solutarch (11/24/05 12:13 PM)


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Solutarch]
    #4976835 - 11/24/05 06:11 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Solutarch said:
On a related note, licorice root is known to have MAOI activity. It has been used to enhance San Pedro's effects. Licorice is also an excellent sweetener (it's said that it's 50 times sweeter than sugar) and used to help mask the bad flavors of other herbs. I have ordered some black currant juice concentrate from Naturesflavors.com. I understand that straight black currant isn't as sweet as other fruit juices so I might sweeten it up with a little licorice.

**Edit** I have also read that ginger (besides being good for reducing nausea) can lower the threshold at which some drugs become active. There are medical warnings to this effect. It is believed that ginger does not potentiates drugs in the manner of a MAOI, but instead helps to increase absorption in the GI tract. I will be experimenting with Licorice, Black Currant, Ginger and Passion Flower Tea with tryptamines in the coming months.




Good info Solutarch.

Let us know about it.


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OfflineManninee
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4977176 - 11/24/05 07:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You can buy black cherry extract in some health food shops - I noticed this has the same effect as black currants, lemon, lime, cranberry etc. Citrus bioflavonoid extract was very effective.
Stating blackcurrant is an MAOI is a load of crap - these fruits are active because of the flavonoids: Rutin , Querecetin, etc which inhibit the liver and gut cytochrome P450 enzymes. MAOI is a different thing altogether, and people who don't know what they are talking about should hold their tongues rather than spouting rubbish.
Try Harmala with shrooms and you'll know what I mean - just expressing an opinion about something you know nothing about because you've got nothing better to say is wasting everybody else's time.
I challenge anyone to give me a source of REAL EVIDENCE that blackcurrant interacts with MAO.


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OfflineUnderhillmaster
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4977194 - 11/24/05 08:02 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I have been giving this thread some thought lately and I just had an idea.  The most common thing I have read about being used for MAIO purposes is Syrian Rue.  This can have some side effects and intoxicating effects of its own.  The idea of fruits and especially fruit juices with MAIO effects is really appealing comparitevely.  Well, here is my idea.  Combine ground syrian rue with MAIO fruit juice(black currant) and let sit for 10 minutes :smile:  Drink this MAIO concoction about an 30-60 minutes before you take your lemon shroom drink.  Which leads into another idea.  Ok, we have 3 major things going on with this MAIO/lemon/shroom combination.  First is the MAIO effect.  Second would be the acidity pre-converting psylocybin into psylocin.  Thirdly, and I do believe this has an effect, is the stomach enzyme/bioflavinoid/absorption increase.  Ideally, to maximize the potential of shrooms, all three factors should be adjusted.  So in addition to pre-loading with MAIO, and combining your shrooms with lemon juice, one could also pre-load on stomach enzyme affecting juices.  Research is really skimpy on fruit juices and mushrooms combined lol, but I am thinking that grapefruit juice might be an excellent choice for this.  Possibly with some lemon juice mixed in.  So drink your black currant/rue mix about an hour before you dose.  Chase that with a big glass of grapefruit juice.  Wait an hour and drink your lemon/shroom mix.  This should obviously only be attempted responsibly as it could possibly get out of hand.  But the potential is quite amazing.  I have been shrooming for a long time, and now it seems like a whole new thing.  The mere possibility that you could take 2g and it feel like 20g makes taking too much very real.  So everyone be careful.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4979078 - 11/25/05 05:07 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

"Consumption of black currants, lingonberries and bilberries increases serum quercetin concentrations"
European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2003) 57, 37-42. doi:10.1038/sj.ejcn.1601513
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v57/n1/abs/1601513a.html

"Quercetin and kaempferol have shown definite MAO activity"
http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/papers/manuscripts/_50.html


Edited by infinitedot (11/25/05 05:11 AM)


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4979265 - 11/25/05 08:10 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Underhillmaster said:
Combine ground syrian rue with MAIO fruit juice(black currant) and let sit for 10 minutes :smile:  Drink this MAIO concoction about an 30-60 minutes before you take your lemon shroom drink.  Which leads into another idea.  Ok, we have 3 major things going on with this MAIO/lemon/shroom combination.  First is the MAIO effect.  Second would be the acidity pre-converting psylocybin into psylocin.  Thirdly, and I do believe this has an effect, is the stomach enzyme/bioflavinoid/absorption increase.  Ideally, to maximize the potential of shrooms, all three factors should be adjusted.  So in addition to pre-loading with MAIO, and combining your shrooms with lemon juice, one could also pre-load on stomach enzyme affecting juices.  Research is really skimpy on fruit juices and mushrooms combined lol, but I am thinking that grapefruit juice might be an excellent choice for this.  Possibly with some lemon juice mixed in.  So drink your black currant/rue mix about an hour before you dose.  Chase that with a big glass of grapefruit juice.  Wait an hour and drink your lemon/shroom mix.





Also, adding some DMT should increase strength even further...      :wink:

j/k, this is very interesting and damn, after being able to trip when I wanted now I have no chance and cant try it... yet! But I sure will :smile:


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Psiledehysp]
    #4979276 - 11/25/05 08:31 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Best black currant juices you'll find should be in Import Food stores, places that import stuff from Europe. I know juices made in south Europe tend have better natural sweetness quality. Don't buy concentrated juices, they're bad for your digestive system. Anything that is concentrated is bad, look for things that are 100% natural, make sure the ingredients don't contain chemical names you haven't heard of (possible preservatives). My dad is a Chiropractor and a nutritionist, and I know this for a fact, juices you can juice at home (with a juicer)are the safest thing. I'm pretty sure you can find a organic grocery store that carries black currants or the juice alone. Don't be fooled, Black Currant juice is not something to toy with even though it might seem like a berry, too much can cause kidney problems in some people who are prone do hereditary kidney problems.
Last note, KoolAid is not considered juice...


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Fluxburn]
    #4979293 - 11/25/05 08:45 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fluxburn said:
Why don't you just get syrian rue seeds, grind up 5 grams of them and put them into 5 000 capsules and swallow it for your MAOI? Seems much easier. Good information though here.




well put.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Hippie3]
    #4979372 - 11/25/05 10:15 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Simple. Syrian = nausea. BC = not.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4979558 - 11/25/05 12:28 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

And also not everyone has access to Syrian Rue.

If I wanted it I'd probably either have to phone many stores and ask them (I don't even know if it's common in nurseries or what) or order it over the internet.

With Black Currant juice all I'd have to do is go to the store and pick some up.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4979627 - 11/25/05 12:54 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Right. And we are talking about a 6X-10X vs. 2X with Syrian.

Some more tests and reports are needed though.

I'm still reluctant to consider a 10X increase, it's TOO GOOD to be true, though the description of the results by incubaby's experience as "the hardest i have ever tripped off of anyhting" really seem impressive indeed.

Another approach would be taking the minimal dose, i.e. 0.25 gr. dry and report on the potency increase, provided the potency of those cubs were known beforehand on a similar trip quantity.

We'll see.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4979638 - 11/25/05 01:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Rue can also be psychadelic in it's own right, where as BC isnt.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4981242 - 11/25/05 10:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Not sure if anyone has said so yet, but that Ribena juice is available in canada, in Fortino's grocery stores. Its down the drinks aisle, near the pop in mine.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Yarry]
    #4981279 - 11/25/05 10:48 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

like someone else said it can be hard to say in that state of mind "i tripped x percent harder"
but im pretty confident in my estimation, but that wasnt only currant juice, mind you, that was currant and lime, like i said, as soon as they roll back around i will be doing both seperatly and will do my best to make it a more controlled situation


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Yarry]
    #4981296 - 11/25/05 10:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I hope most people know that these juices are not actual maois.
Nore do maois make shrooms 10 times as potent unless you eat enough of them to trip hard on the maois by themselves. Maois are very specific and scientific chemicals. They inhibit certain enzymes VERY efficiantly. Those juices, if as effective as some claim them to be, potentiate the shrooms through different means.
Though it would be cool to hear that some of these fruits actually acted as maois because real maois are IN THE JUICE. Its long been common knowledge that if you drink cranberry juice before and during shroom consumption it potentiates it to some degree. You dont have to have read anything about this to see the logic


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: stemmer]
    #4981524 - 11/25/05 11:51 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

you dont read anyhting about anything to see the logic in anything


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4986906 - 11/27/05 06:17 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

BUMP

hey wiccanseeker do you think we could stivky this


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4998198 - 11/30/05 01:48 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

bump....

I could be using mushrooms this weekend, and might consider giving this method a try.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4998534 - 11/30/05 03:22 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hey wiccanseeker do you think we could stivky this




If we can get one more independent verification thats positive I'm willing to pin it up there for a while!

Very interesting I must say!


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Asante]
    #4999181 - 11/30/05 06:06 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If this method gives 10x effects then I only need 0.3g shrooms and that will make me trip like I should have eaten 3g, correct?


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: alienbaby]
    #4999436 - 11/30/05 06:51 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If you're going to try it I suggest just trying the black currant juice (remember to get the right kind) and trying that with mushrooms, since we don't have any reports on just black currant juice with mushrooms.

Apparently the black currant juice should double the effect.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4999876 - 11/30/05 08:46 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i ESTIMATED 10x with black currant AND lime juice...
id say about 2g...
it really depends on how familiar you are with the territory,
if you dont know exactly how you trip there will be no telling, this was like eating 6g or 8g...

and yes, damn, why a drought now???
when science is in need of experimentation?
WHY MAN!


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #5001530 - 12/01/05 09:46 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I agree that this should be tested with black currant juice alone, and soaking the mushrooms in just black currant juice as well.

Ideally this should be tested by someone who had already tried mushrooms with lemon/lime juice before, on mushrooms from the same crop.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5001536 - 12/01/05 09:52 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The work hypothesis is that Black Currant juice alone should equal to roughly 10X as well. That is just a rough estimate for now though.

It's acidic enough:

Black Currant juice - pH ~2.7 - with Pectinex BE-3L Enzyme: 2.45
Lemon juice - pH 2.00-2.60
Lime juice - pH 2.00-2.35

Plus the MAOI 2X effect and possibly even added effects over certain enzymes in the stomach from other of its bioflavonoids.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: alienbaby]
    #5001546 - 12/01/05 09:56 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

alienbaby said:
If this method gives 10x effects then I only need 0.3g shrooms and that will make me trip like I should have eaten 3g, correct?




Correct. I have my concerns about the 10X figure still though, not enough tests have been made to correctly assess this, but definitely incubaby's report is a good start.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5001553 - 12/01/05 10:00 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I know at least another person who has tested this and has said:

"I checked several supermarkets but the only Ribena I could find was the Original with 6% juice content.
Yet, looks like I've found a perfect analog - frozen black currant berries from a local Russian food store.
I meshed the berries, mixed them with some Ribena Original to make more liquid and drank 2 cups. Also, I have taken 2 Aurorix tablets.
Shrooms that I had were in my growbox, but for some reason they were not growing well and withered just after reaching 3-4 cm height. I picked all of them and their weight combined to 27g.
Not much, especially taking into account their miserable looks.
I mixed the shrooms in a mixer with 2 cups of lemon and grapefruit juice and left them to stay.
1 hour after taking the black currant juice and Aurorix I drank 1 cup of the shroom juice, leaving the second one to take later if needed.
That was the WISEST thing I could do.

Black currant works, that is for sure.
I have tried shrooms with lemon/lime juice, with harmala, aurorix, passionflower extract, etc.
This time it was like never before. I was swept, trampled, smashed and humiliated. I am terrified with a thought that I could take 2 cups at once. That was a real near and beyond death experience, both spiritually and physically.
Yes, black currant works. But people, DO BE CAREFUL.

I'll post the trip details in a couple of days, I still sweat cold when recalling it.
Peace."

He hasn't filled the report form yet though, and he didn't follow precisely the standard procedure as he used Aurorix. Yet, his conclusions, compared with former Aurorix use, seem to be quite positive and exciting too.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5001566 - 12/01/05 10:05 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

And also, he had tried already tried lemon/lime juice before.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5001575 - 12/01/05 10:07 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Ok and since bc is maoi the trip will be similar to my rue+shrooms trips? I think syrian rue makes the trip very diffrent and longer but i am more in control. I think rue is good to avoid a bad trip


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5001580 - 12/01/05 10:09 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I won't stress this enough. Until now, out of only 2 persons who has tested this, both experienced trippers, both of them have said that it's been the hardest trip they've ever had.

Please, be careful and be aware that you are taking a risk, ok?


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: alienbaby]
    #5001583 - 12/01/05 10:12 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

alienbaby said:
Ok and since bc is maoi the trip will be similar to my rue+shrooms trips? I think syrian rue makes the trip very diffrent and longer but i am more in control. I think rue is good to avoid a bad trip




Yes, that's the hypothesis. In my opinion, there's not enough data to confirm ANY of these claims though. Syrian Rue gives nausea and bad stomach ache and puking to some people though.

But yes, Syrian is a MAOI as it would be happening too with BC.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: alienbaby]
    #5001618 - 12/01/05 10:36 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

alienbaby said:
Ok and since bc is maoi the trip will be similar to my rue+shrooms trips?




In fact, it should be harder, as we are considering the acidic effect which would yield more psilocin from psylocybin.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5002891 - 12/01/05 05:11 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

bump

:smile:


--------------------
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OfflineUnderhillmaster
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #5003402 - 12/01/05 07:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Lol, I live in the sticks sigh. I did find black currant jelly though in the jelly aisle at the local grocery. Maybe I could mix up a few tablespoons with some lemon juice and soak my shroom powder. Gonna be awhile til my next trip, so I will keep looking for bc juice. Anybody tried St. John's Wort yet? I can get that easily.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #5005955 - 12/02/05 10:38 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Underhillmaster said:
Lol, I live in the sticks sigh. I did find black currant jelly though in the jelly aisle at the local grocery. Maybe I could mix up a few tablespoons with some lemon juice and soak my shroom powder. Gonna be awhile til my next trip, so I will keep looking for bc juice.





As you are already pretty well experienced with lemon juice, I'd suggest just using BC for the whole process, including soaking the mushrooms on BC juice, Underhillmaster.

Quote:


Anybody tried St. John's Wort yet? I can get that easily.




That should work as well. I'd have to find out what would be the best way to do it, as there are several factors there. i.e. concentration, time of consumption, quantity...and so on.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5005992 - 12/02/05 11:05 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

St. Johns Wort is a MAOI, its a mild MAOI, but one nonetheless.
I dont think BC Juice will give the same effect as Syrian Rue, they are both MAOI's, but Syrian Rue can be psychadelic on it's own - so you have the MAOI factof of the Rue going, however you also have the psychadelic expiernce of it going also - which will alter the mushroom trip aswell.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: kaniz]
    #5006032 - 12/02/05 11:23 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, so I'm supposed to be getting an 8th of mushrooms this weekend....

I've been thinking I will take 2.5 grams first normally...then try 1 gram with the black currant juice (assuming I can find it around here). I'm just concerned maybe the dose is too high/low, or maybe this method won't work at all, and I could have just had a normal 8th trip. I'll start looking around for the juice though...but looking for some input on the doses.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: kaniz]
    #5006242 - 12/02/05 12:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kaniz said:
St. Johns Wort is a MAOI, its a mild MAOI, but one nonetheless.
I dont think BC Juice will give the same effect as Syrian Rue, they are both MAOI's, but Syrian Rue can be psychadelic on it's own - so you have the MAOI factof of the Rue going, however you also have the psychadelic expiernce of it going also - which will alter the mushroom trip aswell.




That's right. We are talking about potentiation effect of MAOI by itself, in SJW. SJW is also easier to get than Syrian Rue.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5006258 - 12/02/05 12:49 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

infinitedot said:
Quote:

Underhillmaster said:
Lol, I live in the sticks sigh. I did find black currant jelly though in the jelly aisle at the local grocery. Maybe I could mix up a few tablespoons with some lemon juice and soak my shroom powder. Gonna be awhile til my next trip, so I will keep looking for bc juice.





As you are already pretty well experienced with lemon juice, I'd suggest just using BC for the whole process, including soaking the mushrooms on BC juice, Underhillmaster.






I dunno if soaking ground up mushrooms in black currant juice would work properly in terms of potentiation from the MAOI.

I thought you had to take the MAOI a half hour to an hour before taking the mushrooms to get the proper effect.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: heavensgate]
    #5006268 - 12/02/05 12:53 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

heavensgate said:
Ok, so I'm supposed to be getting an 8th of mushrooms this weekend....

I've been thinking I will take 2.5 grams first normally...then try 1 gram with the black currant juice (assuming I can find it around here). I'm just concerned maybe the dose is too high/low, or maybe this method won't work at all, and I could have just had a normal 8th trip. I'll start looking around for the juice though...but looking for some input on the doses.




You might be a good experimenting subject indeed heavensgate.

I'd suggest taking 1.5 grs. soaking the mushrooms on lemon/lime juice for 15 mins. before ingestion.

Then, at least 2 weeks later, ideally 4, in order to avoid tolerance, use another 1.5 grs. following the whole standard procedure of the first post and just using BC, ingesting 750ml. 1 hour beforehand and soaking the mushrooms on BC juice 15 mins. before ingestion.

In both cases, grinding the mushrooms before soaking them, and in both cases with an empty stomach at least 8 hours before ingestion.

That would give a pretty good comparison of the effects between lemon and BC, as it's already been showed that acidity of lemon is enough to potentiate a trip. Now it takes testing if the acidity of BC is enough by itself as well. They work hypothesis is that the BC trip should be stronger than the lemon/lime one.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5006274 - 12/02/05 12:56 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

infinitedot said:
Now it takes testing if the acidity of BC is enough by itself as well. They work hypothesis is that the BC trip should be stronger than the lemon/lime one.




And if it is shown that BC acidity isn't enough by itself to break the psilocybin into psilocin (my estimate is that it is), then BC+lemon/lime juice might be the ideal combination.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5006282 - 12/02/05 01:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
Quote:

infinitedot said:
Quote:

Underhillmaster said:
Lol, I live in the sticks sigh. I did find black currant jelly though in the jelly aisle at the local grocery. Maybe I could mix up a few tablespoons with some lemon juice and soak my shroom powder. Gonna be awhile til my next trip, so I will keep looking for bc juice.





As you are already pretty well experienced with lemon juice, I'd suggest just using BC for the whole process, including soaking the mushrooms on BC juice, Underhillmaster.






I dunno if soaking ground up mushrooms in black currant juice would work properly in terms of potentiation from the MAOI.

I thought you had to take the MAOI a half hour to an hour before taking the mushrooms to get the proper effect.




That's correct. It's 2 different actions with BC:
1) MAOI effect, drinking the juice 1 hour before mushrooms ingestion
2) Acidity of BC juice soaking the mushrooms 10-15 mins. before ingestion

As it's been already suggested:
Black Currant juice - pH ~2.7 - with Pectinex BE-3L Enzyme: 2.45
Lemon juice - pH 2.00-2.60
Lime juice - pH 2.00-2.35

The test now is to determin if a pH of ~2.7 is enough per se.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #5006309 - 12/02/05 01:17 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Underhillmaster said:
Ok, we have 3 major things going on with this MAIO/lemon/shroom combination.  First is the MAIO effect.  Second would be the acidity pre-converting psylocybin into psylocin.  Thirdly, and I do believe this has an effect, is the stomach enzyme/bioflavinoid/absorption increase.  Ideally, to maximize the potential of shrooms, all three factors should be adjusted.

This should obviously only be attempted responsibly as it could possibly get out of hand.  But the potential is quite amazing.  I have been shrooming for a long time, and now it seems like a whole new thing.  The mere possibility that you could take 2g and it feel like 20g makes taking too much very real.  So everyone be careful.




Totally spot on Underhillmaster.  :thumbup:

The bioflavonoids action on certain enzymes is the third factor here.

Kaempferol, as well as other bioflavonoids present in BC juice might very well be inhibiting the gut and liver cytochrome P450 enzymes, accounting for stronger effects. The high content of ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) might very well be playing an important role here as well.

As yousuck pointed,

"I think its been overlooked that fruitjuices that inhibit the CYP3A4 enzyme through bioflavinoid action in conjunction with other elements of powdering psychoactives within juices, potentiates mushrooms to a far greater degree than does maoi's like harmala."

That's why Black Currant juice seems to be such a good combination of MAOI, acidity, bioflavonoids and ascorbic acid, that might make it ideal to potentiate mushrooms up to a 10X.

More tests have to be done though, no conclusion can be drawn for sure, no matter how promising the theory might look until enough tests are done and that's the part where a community like this makes sense. Always with due care, of course, as this might lead to very strong trips, as it's been already shown by 2 persons, defining them as the hardest trips they've ever had. Let's be careful please.


Edited by infinitedot (12/02/05 01:20 PM)


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #5006703 - 12/02/05 03:49 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I have black currants in my freezer that ive grown in my garden this year, maybe I should try an experiment with them :smile: intresting thread


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: shamantra]
    #5006951 - 12/02/05 04:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shamantra said:
I have black currants in my freezer that ive grown in my garden this year, maybe I should try an experiment with them :smile: intresting thread




good good, pure black currants, ideal indeed...make sure you keep us informed  :wink:


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #5007733 - 12/02/05 07:52 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

oh, my freinds, BC=lime juice IS the bet combo!


--------------------
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #5017111 - 12/05/05 12:20 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Well crap.

I checked one grocery store and they didn't have any black currant juice, at all.

I'm gonna check another one but if they don't have any then I don't know what I'm gonna do.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5018292 - 12/05/05 05:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

im telling you Tops is the only place that has it, i searched every grocery store in three different towns, to no avail untill i weant there


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i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: incubaby_421]
    #5018372 - 12/05/05 05:17 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Well we don't have a 'Tops' here, so I dunno what I'm gonna do.

I wonder if there are any other types of places that might have black currant juice other than grocery stores.

Perhaps there are other common plants that contain quercitrin and quercetin.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5018528 - 12/05/05 05:47 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Try an "organic foods" store..."whole foods markets" things like that...

BTW, it doesn't look like I will be trying this, as the mushroom source fell through...but I am interested in the results.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: heavensgate]
    #5018564 - 12/05/05 05:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

liek heavenshgate said, try a health food store of sorts, you may have to travel a bit, go to www.currantc.com , there is a store locator on thier website


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: incubaby_421]
    #5019888 - 12/05/05 10:43 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

BC juice will be acidic enough to start the psylocybin conversion process.  I experimented with cranberry juice for a year before discovering lemon juice.  Cranberry's ph is a bit over 3, so not as acidic as BC.  Since BC juice may be hard to come by in some places in the states, we need to find an online source :smile:


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #5021963 - 12/06/05 06:52 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)



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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #5021979 - 12/06/05 06:58 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

CurrantC is also sold at:

- P&C Food Stores
- Big M Market
- BiLo

http://www.currants.com/index.php?src=gendocs&link=Retail%20Locations&category=Main


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #5022197 - 12/06/05 08:54 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)



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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #5022240 - 12/06/05 09:31 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

My dad is a nutritionist and a health freak, everytime he buys Black Currant (BC...?) juice he gets it from European import stores. The best and most natural of black currant juices are found from european juice companies, and it's not some shitty 'concentrate' like currant c which is more fake than real. I personally would go with 100% natural juice(even beter if it's pure pressed) with NO perservatives.

I have never trusted US companies producing anything 'natural' other than Florida Orange juice, which is clearly pure squeezed, not from concentrate and no perservatives. I wouldn't trust Currant C until I read the label and taste it myself.

All I'm saying is, you shouldn't just buy something because the label has a picture of the fruit, read the label. Perservatives are dangerous to your health, and concentration of anything can cause a toxic effect in your liver and kidneys.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: psychedelix]
    #5022406 - 12/06/05 10:58 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I agree that natural juice from freshly squeezed black currants would be the best source for this, if it's possible to get that.

Black Currants cultivation was banned until recently, because of a tree plague, apparently caused by BC cultivation.

"In 1999, Greg Quinn, a culinary and horticulture expert, also known as WNYW?s ?Garden Guy,? grew interested in black currants and founded Au Currant Enterprises, located in Clinton, New York, an area in the Hudson Valley well-known for its culinary and farming heritage (the Culinary Institute of America and specialty farms, ranging from garlic and wine to goat cheese, are nearby). Working with leading experts in the field, he decided to attempt to bring back the U.S. black currant industry by first getting the ban lifted in New York State, giving hope to a struggling New York farming industry with the first, potentially-viable crop to come along in more than a half century."



More info: http://www.maplelane.com/media/BlackCurrantGuy.jpg

Incubaby, do you still keep the CurrantC bottle handy? If so, could you please transcribe the label?


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #5022461 - 12/06/05 11:17 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I wont be able to get CurrantC anyways because it looks like it's only sold in the US.

Maybe I'll have to find a european imports place (if one even exists in Victoria), but I don't want a bottle to cost an arm and a leg.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5022478 - 12/06/05 11:22 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
I wont be able to get CurrantC anyways because it looks like it's only sold in the US.

Maybe I'll have to find a european imports place (if one even exists in Victoria), but I don't want a bottle to cost an arm and a leg.




http://www.southalderfarms.com/blackc.htm

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Victoria%2C+British+Columbia+black+currant  :tongue:


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #5022514 - 12/06/05 11:36 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Well I could probably get actual black currant berries.

But how would I be able to calculate how many, or how much to consume?

I'm planning on doing some phoning around in the near future to see what I can get my hands on.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5022543 - 12/06/05 11:43 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

You need to drink 275 gr. of pure juice, roughly 7 oz.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #5022560 - 12/06/05 11:50 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I'd probably have to eat a LOT of berries then huh?

I can probably find some juice somewhere in this city.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5024584 - 12/06/05 07:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

LONG List:

Currant & Gooseberry Plant Suppliers (Partial List)
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/resource/currant.htm


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #5024622 - 12/06/05 07:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

no, im sorry, i didnt keep the bottle,
and about preservatives, how the fuck are we supposed to avoid them in thier entirety? virtually impossible.

and come to think of it theose assholes never responded to my email...
im sure they have a wealth of inquiries to tend to... yeah... uh huh

i could go get another bottle, if i manage to scrape together a few minutes to make it to the store


--------------------
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i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: infinitedot]
    #5039746 - 12/09/05 04:22 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Alright guys, I got a 500mL bottle of Ribena original.

It says on the bottle it "makes 5x its volume." So I'm guessing it's 5 times the strength.

You said you'd need 7 ounces of pure BC juice. So according to my calculations I need about 1.4 ounces of this stuff.

Correct?

I'm thinking I'll try it tonight.


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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5040824 - 12/09/05 08:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Good HeavyToilet.

Check the label. If that's Ribena Squash, and I'm guessing it is, that's 35% pure juice. It says 5X volume because their usual juice is just based on a 7% pure juice.

50 gr. of 5.5X concentrate used in the Patent equals = 275 gr. of Pure juice.
To get 275 gr. of Pure juice, diluted 35% (Ribena brand) we need:
350 gr. pure per 1000 gr.
275 gr. pure -> (1000*275)/350 = 785 gr. of concentrate.

That's to say, your bottle plus half another. I think 500ml. should do as well.

As you have tested lemon before, I suggest soaking them in BC this time, in order to compare.

Take it easy, I just read another report from someone who hasn't posted it here yet and he reached a solid level 5 on just 14 grs. of *fresh* cubes. He used another MAOI though so that invalidates the results, but he has described it as a really strong trip, with Ego death. He was glad he didn't drank the other half of the glass. Keep that in mind, ok? :thumbup:


Edited by infinitedot (12/10/05 10:30 AM)


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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: infinitedot]
    #5040848 - 12/09/05 08:29 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Also, to get as much accurate results as possible, try following the standard 7 steps procedure on the first post. Be safe. Enjoy. :mushroom2:


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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: infinitedot]
    #5040866 - 12/09/05 08:33 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Noticed another thing.

You said
Quote:

You need to drink 275 gr. of pure juice, roughly 7 oz.




and
Quote:

275 gr. pure -> (1000*275)/350 = 785 gr. of concentrate.

Drink the 785ml.




I'm confused. Why are you referring to the BC juice in grams? It looks like you're saying that a gram of BC juice is equal to a mL. If this is correct, it looks like you're saying 275mLs of BC juice is about the same as 7 ounces. It would be the same as 7 ounces if an ounce was 39.3 mLs, but an ounce is about 28.8mLs.

And also, how did you calculate how much of the pure juice should be consumed? I can't find information the concentration of quercetin and quercitrin in black currant juice.


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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: infinitedot]
    #5040880 - 12/09/05 08:37 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

No, it's just called Ribena Original. It's concentrated juice by 5 times. Cost $7.50 for a 500 mL bottle, so I'd be surprised if I needed a lot of this stuff.

It says "One 30 mL serving of Ribena concentrate provides 100% of the Canadian recommended daily intake of Vitamin C."

So I don't want to overdose on Vitamin C or something.


Edited by HeavyToilet (12/09/05 08:48 PM)


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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5040996 - 12/09/05 09:05 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Just had supper, and it's about 6 o'clock right now where I live.

I'm thinking I'll take the juice at either 8 or 9. Then the mushrooms an hour after that.

I'm gonna try doing some strenuous activity in order to speed up my metabolism.


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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5041178 - 12/09/05 10:08 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Alright well I think I'm gonna take 90mLs. That's three times the suggested daily intake of vitamin C.

I'll probably take it in an hour and 20 minutes I'm thinking


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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5041360 - 12/09/05 11:18 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Alright guys I just took 90mLs of the BC concentrate.

I'm gonna eat the mushrooms in about 55 minutes.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5041849 - 12/10/05 12:53 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Just curious, but does anyone think this would work with lsd?


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: shroomed]
    #5042440 - 12/10/05 02:44 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I'm pretty sure MAOIs and LSD cancel each other out.

But yeah, it didn't work too well.

The hallucinations weren't as clear as when I did an eighth of these mushrooms. I'm feeling pretty cold right now... but maybe I'll post more tomorrow.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5042992 - 12/10/05 07:25 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

After reading the amazing Gummihuaska post I became very anxious to try it as soon as possible.
I checked several supermarkets but the only Ribena I could find was the Original with 6% juice content.
Yet, looks like I've found a perfect analog - frozen black currant berries from a local Russian food store.
I meshed the berries, mixed them with some Ribena Original to make it more liquid and drank 2 cups. Also, I have taken 2 Aurorix tablets.
Shrooms that I had were in my growbox, but for some reason they were not growing well and withered just after reaching 3-4 cm height. I picked all of them and their weight combined to 27g.
Not much, especially taking into account their miserable looks.
I mixed the shrooms in a mixer with 2 cups of lemon and grapefruit juice and left them to stay.
1 hour after taking the black currant juice and Aurorix I drank 1 cup of the shroom juice, leaving the second one to take later if needed.
That was the WISEST thing I could do.

Black currant works, that is for sure.
I have tried shrooms with lemon/lime juice, with harmala, aurorix, passionflower extract, etc.
This time it was like never before. I was swept, trampled, smashed and humiliated. I am terrified with a thought that I could take 2 cups at once. That was a real near and beyond death experience, both spiritually and physically.
Yes, black currant works. But people, DO BE CAREFUL.
I'll post the trip details in a couple of days, I still sweat cold when recalling it.
Here is the technical description:
- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: I have been tripping on mushrooms for 2 years - 20-30? trips. 2 LSD trips. 20-30 Salvia experiences (plain leaf?5x-10x-20x). Ololiuqui seeds ? 10 seeds just once. 2 Iboga powder trips (8g, 20g). Lots of herbal psychoactive experiments. Hash ? hundreds of times. Cannabis drunk and eaten ? hundreds of times. When I was younger I tried everything that was available: barbiturates, opium smoked/eaten/intravenuously, acetone inhalations and lots of other bullshit. I?m a proud pot smoker for roughly 24 years.
- Days since last trip on psychedelics: 5 weeks ago - Ps.cub 3g dry + 3g Syrian rue; 4 weeks ago - 20g iboga powder; 2 weeks ago - 3g Syrian rue + 10g MHRB
- Black Currant Juice brand: about 200-250g fresh (frozen) berries mixed with 1 cup of Ribena Original (6%) - - Juice Quantity: 400-450 g
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis homegrown
- Mushrooms Quantity: appr. 14 gr. fresh
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): No, my first crop.
- Hours since last meal: 24 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): No, mixed in a blender with lemon and grapefruit juice
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, for 30 minutes, 250ml pure lemon juice + 200ml grapefruit juice.
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): ABSOLUTELY
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 3X-4X
- Estimated total potency: 6X-10X?
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 10 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 15-20 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 2-4 hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 6 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 12 hours


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: shneck]
    #5043031 - 12/10/05 08:03 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Tryptonaut wrote:
?hem, Shnek - you say you took Moclobemide, a reversible monoamine oxidase inhibitor, before you took the shrooms. That voids the whole Black Currant Juice experiment because you already magnify the mushrooms with this strong pharmaceutical MAOI...

No, Trypto, it does not void anything at all. I took lemon/lime mushies with aurorix (moclobemide) quite a few times. This time it was the SAME COMBO + black currant. Subjectively it is 3-4 times stronger THAN THE SAME COMBO w/o currant.
There could be other significant things that might have affected the purity of the test, the major one being that the shrooms I took last time were 1st flush of a new growbox. I compared them to other shrooms which might be weaker, - yet, I doubt the difference in strength could be so huge - they should have been called Cryptonite Cubensis then. Also, the character of the trip was much different from anything I ever experienced before - I even suspect that could it be some mush infection? Matter is that this flush looks quite strange, shrooms are withered, they didn't grow over 3-5 cm, the caps did not open at all, their colour was bluish with some dark almost black speckles, and stuff. I understand there are lots of factors, but I do not own a test lab, so that's the test as it went - far from being objective, yet the only one I had.
Anyway, there is another thing I also wanted to add here.
Yesterday I did it again, no aurorix and 8g fresh mushrooms.
It was just 2 times weaker than the previous trip on 14 grams (note that no aurorix did not seem to influence the potency at all), but the trip character was exactly the same.
They both were absolutely the BADDEST trips I ever had.
Bad in the sense of the ultimate pain and suffering they gave me both times, especially the last time with less shroomz.
But as almost every time with the shrooms, bad trips become real gifts when you think them over afterwards.
These both trips helped me a LOT to understand my bad psychological condition, and they gave me clear tips on what I must do to fix my situation ASAP.
Of course, it might be my own problem that influenced the trip as well. Still, this problem is quite old, yet I have never experienced anything close in my previous trips, even the "bad" ones. I'm really lucky that I haven't done any physical damage to myself, but it was close.
Everything I wrote above is to warn you that maybe the black currant changes somehow your trip and makes it very insightful but no fun at all.
Just be careful with it, might well need more research.
Will try to post the report tomorrow, you will definitely understand better what I tried to explain here.
P.S. Yes, the part I wondered about was the "Gummi". Maybe it has something to do with Gummy Bears? Some kind of cartoon characters, I guess.
Peace.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: shneck]
    #5043033 - 12/10/05 08:05 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Well, finally I made it:

First effects started creeping over me almost immediately - in 10 minutes I knew something was coming and this time it felt very much different from anything I had experienced before. The usual slight initial nausea gained more of a psychological than physical character. Do not really know how to explain it, but the speedy rush and sheer beastly power of it made me feel a bit uneasy. I'm a 20-odd year pothead, and pot used to help me in cases of any substance overdose, so I thought it better to start rolling a joint to calm myself down if needed.
It was less than 15 min from the start, and yet I have already felt certain difficulty in fixing my papirosa roach which had never happened to me before. Usually it's almost a reflex action when the hands know how to do it with no instructions from the brain needed.
Anyway, I managed it somehow, and just a few minutes later I lit it 'cause I started feeling more and more alarmed with the planetary energy of the psilocin advance. I have to mention that usually I smoke my first one after I've peaked and on.
When I killed the joint I felt no usual relaxing effect, and the cannabis-produced visual myst kept not more than a few minutes. I could literally see how the psilocin ripped all the MJ effects apart, and 20 minutes after the launch my eyesight was all incredibly crisp and detailed again; 10 minutes later I was aboard the crazy Blain-the-Train rushing headlong.
I stayed in my flat which was very cosy and which always perfectly suited my trips before. Music playing was a compilation of Orb, Ozric Tentacles, Oorzhak Siberian chants and similar stuff.
The nausea has passed, only to be replaced with stomach heaviness. Quite suddenly I realized that my vision changed again significantly and reality around me acquired a strange faceted nature. Time was progressing in a sort of jerky and uneven fashion like water pumped irregularly by a huge invisible pump. Every 'stroke' was marked by an increase in facetiousness of my vision to an extent when everything started looking like incredibly detailed mosaic. The music made me more and more nervous, yet strangely I could not make myself grab the remote and switch it off. Luckily, the disk was running to the end and I felt enormous relief when it stopped.
The relief did not last for more than a moment though. I cast a look at the wall clock - 40-something min from the start only.
Feeling more and more anxious I could not find a place to accommodate myself, finally I put on my shoes and coat and decided to take a walk to the park behind my house.
I live on a 3rd floor; when I closed the door behind me and started descending, I noticed that the stairs were gone and I was in a weird cave-like shimmering place which I have never seen before. I was so amazed that it did not even occur to me that I could switch on the lights, and I proceeded down the weird hobbit-like hole in darkness. Well, darkness it wasn't at all. It looked like kind of mother-of-pearl tunnel spiraling down for miles. It took me aeooons to get to the ground floor, but that was one of the most amazing experiences, I felt like Alice entering the well in the ground, the walls were glimmering with a phosphorous glow and strangest subtle sounds echoed in the dark around.
Finally, I popped out into the street and stopped right there stunned to my bollocks by the indescribably magnificent view that unfolded.
There I stood like 5-10-20? mins just watching the streetlights, the breathing trees and bushes, all extremely, unbelievably faceted and weavery. By that time every individual "facet" gained a halo around it, and I could hardly discern the objects around - imagine that you look through a stocking on your head and the stocking is glowing blue-green-purple, that's kind of close.
When I moved my head, halos moved along leaving disappearing traces, and for the first time in my life I felt an eye-orgasm.
All of a sudden a horrible feeling of something extremely wrong fell on me, and a moment later it took a form of ugly sounds of loud pop-music coming from the house opposite the street. It must have been there all the time but I noticed it only then and it made me shudder, so rude and false and repulsive it was.
To boot, I suddenly became aware that it was raining, and my feet felt wet, and all in all I started feeling greatest discomfort.
I turned back and almost ran half the block back to my house, up the no-more-mysterious stairs and back into my flat.
I thought I was tripping hardest before, but I knew it was just a start as soon as I was back inside.
When I switched the lights on everything was floating in a thick orange haze. I staggered to the sofa, pulled off the coat, threw the shoes off, studded on the sofa, shaking with cold and trying to warm my wet feet.
The lights were unbearable, so I switched them off, cuddled under the blanket and tried to comfort myself.
That was not an easy thing to do at all. The stomach felt incredibly heavy, and the overall gloomy and uneasy mood was setting in over me quickly. My head was throbbing, I heard the strangest squeaky sounds inside my very brain. The trip was now going locomotive pace, and I started experiencing some momentary lapses of reason which were becoming more and more frequent and frightening.
And then the "bad" part began.


Edited by shneck (06/24/11 07:42 AM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: shneck]
    #5043034 - 12/10/05 08:06 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I was lying on a sofa, curled under a blanket. The cold feeling has passed. With my eyes closed, my head under the blanket, I was in complete darkness, all alone. The screeching high-pitched noises inside my head have already become harmonic and rhythmical, forming an eery neuromusic. I had the craziest CEV's of monstrous miriad-colored tentacle-like things squirming at an incredible speed in fractal continuum. They fell on me in beautiful unearthly colours and shapes of "3D-turbo" standing-out nature and fluorescence and stuff that all of you trippers well know, but they did seem to entertain me at all.
Then, I have found out that there were two independent observing "me's" where I used to have just one. Remarkably, the multiple "me's" did not bring along any perceptual chaos, moreover, amidst all the raging havoc there flicked a feeling of cold intellectual pleasure in gaining access to multiple worlds of perception.
Gradually, one of the "me's" started registering low metal screeches, and at some point "I" first knew of, and then started "seeing" tiny comma-like entities that were the screeches' source. Then I understood that I "saw" my brain from inside, and it "looked" like a huge labyrinth of eery hanging neurons-axons-receptors, moss-like, snail-eyes-capped stems, ivy coloured threads disappearing in the darkness. The "commas" were obviously the "psilocibes" aka "little shpongles" peeking once and again from out of different caches and niches and corners, uttering strange reverberating sounds that ripped the menacing silence with a camertone sharpness.
By and by, the tentacles and the "psilocybes" were gone. Actually, everything was gone except for the dark void.
No feeling of a heavy peaking pace left. Just screaming silence.
From that moment and on I am not very much sure of what followed. Below is a version based on rags of memories left of the experience.
After the silence and loneliness set in I(?) was left alone with my(?) thoughts. Subjectively, time was 1-1.30 hours since the start, but I not for sure. It felt terribly alone, like nothing existed, or rather everything, the whole universe has vanished, what remained was only an entity I will call "myself" for no better word, and the pitch-black darkness around. The "myself" kept rapidly dissolving, disintegrating with every passing moment. Like I said, the rush was long gone, but I now would give everything I had to change it back for this nothingness. One after another, thoughts were streaming to slowly melt into nothingness, and it felt like less and less of them were left and soon I would run out of them all. Memories of close people and friends died one by one right after being thought, gone forever and it was the last time I would remember them. Remnants of conscience popped up the notion of "ego dissolution" and the message "there is nothing to be afraid of...", which both immediately turned into dust themselves, and then I said goodbye to my last thought which was my name.
I was completely blank. Technically, there was no "I" any more.
Then the most horrible stage followed. I mean it was absolutely the most terrifying and scary state that I have ever went through in my whole life.
When my name was gone, the speed of the rush was back, and zillionfold. The processing entity, "I" was comprised of a mere couple of insanely racing ideomorphs, and a feeling of a supersonic vertical ascent of thinking process to unreachable shining heights, black shining heights. The perception gaps were becoming more and more frequent, and every time the thinking was back, it was just "Why? Why is life? What is this all about? and what for? What is "good"? "bad"? and the like.
Then it became still worse. Thoughts were back, only steroid-pumped now, all having same mood of running an endless crooked circle and getting no answer while it seems so close all the time.
Parallel thoughts were of a complete absolute freedom which did not give any joy, and this absolute freedom was becoming more absolute than a moment ago and on and on, till it became one white piercing light that shone forever, and I growled in unexplainable pain, the psychological pain of a magnitude far over any physical pain ever experienced in my life.
That is when I think I silently screamed and screamed for endless microseconds and I have a flash of a memory of that moment when it felt like I was born into something absolutely out of all times and worlds, into Another being.
This is when I start remembering more bits and pieces. I remember making bubbling noises, now standing in the middle of the room, now lying on a sofa again and trying to pierce the glass of my table with my hand. Or thinking about the table glass as well as everything in the universe being just constellations of particles with nothingness in between, and other terrifying snapshots that won't fit into the longest report.
One of the most scary moments was related to juggling the idea of death - is it worth trying? What is there beyond the threshold?
And the scariest was the peak, when I saw madness, and I went in, and I felt the full taste of insanity, the taste of being locked inside your brain beating the walls of the scull with no chance to ever get out.


Edited by shneck (06/24/11 08:58 AM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: shneck]
    #5043036 - 12/10/05 08:06 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

When I came back I was standing in the middle of my room, dazed, staggering and confused. I looked around. The blanket was on the floor, the stand-lamp toppled and broken, ash-tray pieces lying amidst the broken cigarettes and crumbles of pot scattered all around.
I felt utmost horror. I looked at the clock, it was already half past 3 or 4 am, can't remember exactly.
I looked into the mirror and the horror came back in full. My face was deformed, I felt pieces of my teeth in my mouth, my jaw looked broken. I had a big shine on my forehead and my left hand was injured quite heavily, probably because of my experiments in piercing objects around.
I took the remaining half of the lemon/shroom juice that was left, shaking at the idea of what could have happened if I took it all, then ran to the bathroom and tossed it into the sink almost in a panic fit. I felt enormous tension in the middle of my stomach and I thought that I just needed to force myself to shit or to puke cause this tension was psychological and I needed to get rid of it as soon as I could. I managed to puke 2 times and I did felt just a bit better.
I washed my face and then I knew I was still tripping! and hard!
The walls, furniture, the floor, the ceiling - everything was morphing insanely, so I had to crawled back to my bed through all that swarming fractal jungle.
I was lying there till the afternoon brooding on the sense of my living; I saw my organism as a container once full of life-force and empty, weak and useless now, and lots of other deep and unhappy thoughts. The last effects disappeared by 8-9 am. Still, until late evening I felt not myself, and my only thoughts were about the cruelty of existence which has no other purpose than living through some number of years, rotting and finally be gone like never existed.
I felt extremely sad. The only positive thing was that I did not want to smoke at all. I'm a regular smoker, 20-25 cigs per day for more than 20 years, but now it's over two weeks that I do not smoke (tobacco) and I do not feel any desire to.

So, that's more or less how it went.
Pardon for the long post.

Of course, the description sucks against the actual experience because  psychedelic experiences just can't be rendered adequately in writing, yet if you have tripped yourself you will get the idea ok.
I just wanted to remind everybody that sometimes we eat mushrooms, and sometimes it's vice versa.
Proceed with caution!

Peace.


Edited by shneck (06/24/11 09:16 AM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: shneck]
    #5043245 - 12/10/05 10:43 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for that impressive report shneck.

"This time it was like never before. I was swept, trampled, smashed and humiliated. I am terrified with a thought that I could take 2 cups at once. That was a real near and beyond death experience, both spiritually and physically."

You are the second person to speak like that about a trip with BC juice...out of 2 who have tested it by now.

It's a pity that using Aurorix. It's good that you had tested Aurorix with lemon juice before too, so that you can compare. It's good that you used real black currants juice from fresh BCs too. You say you ate 200-250gr. of black currants + 1 cup of Ribena, which is pretty close to the 275ml. suggested in the patent.

Good work. :thumbup::thumbup:


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5043683 - 12/10/05 01:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Well I don't know.

Maybe I should have taken more BC juice. I was hesitant because I don't know if you can have an adverse reaction to taking too much vitamin C or what.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5044550 - 12/10/05 04:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

No worries, at least you tried Heavytoilet. :thumbup:

The old pharmacological saying applies here: Everything is toxic. At the right dose.

I also think maybe you should have drank more juice, but now we have got another interesting data too: 90ml. of Ribena Original might not be enough to induce the desired effects.

Pauling, winner of 2 Nobel prizes, chemistry and peace, himself reportedly took at least 12,000 mg daily and raised the amount to 40,000 mg if symptoms of a cold appear. That's 80-200 times the recommended dayly amount of Vitamin C.

Everybody criticized because of his hypervitaminosis proposal as an aid to fight cancer. Recently it has been proved that Vitamin C stops cancer development.

Anyway, more tests are needed to deduce any valid conclusions.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5044563 - 12/10/05 04:30 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Alright, well next time I'll maybe just drink the last 410mLs.

Although, if it takes a bottle and a half of this stuff to double the effects, it wouldn't be cost worthy for me to do so. Since a bottle and a half would cost about 10 or 11 bucks (not to mention the cost of mushrooms), and I can get an eighth for $10.

And one of the reasons that I didn't do more, was someone in the Shroomery irc chat said I'd get terrible diarrhea if I took 4 times the daily amount of vitamin C. I guess they had no idea what they were talking about.


Edited by HeavyToilet (12/10/05 04:32 PM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5044832 - 12/10/05 06:02 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

"Vitamin C is water soluble and is regularly excreted by the body. Therefore, toxicity is very rare. Amounts greater than 2,000 mg/day, however, are not recommended because such high doses can lead to stomach upset and diarrhea."
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002404.htm

In 275 ml. of the recommended pure BC juice to drink there are 550 mg. of Vitamin C, so it's safe.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5044867 - 12/10/05 06:13 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

About the potentiation, though it's hard to say, Shneck estimates a total potency of 6X-10X, which agrees with the previous incubaby's estimate. Way more than just a 2X. Anyway, in my opinion, though it looks promising, no serious conclusions can be drawn yet.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5045640 - 12/10/05 09:16 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

hmmmm... im begining to wonder if BC ALONE isnt powerful enough to make a huge difference but that becomes exponential when you mix two potentiators


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #5051971 - 12/12/05 01:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Underhillmaster said:
BC juice will be acidic enough to start the psylocybin conversion process.  I experimented with cranberry juice for a year before discovering lemon juice.  Cranberry's ph is a bit over 3, so not as acidic as BC.  Since BC juice may be hard to come by in some places in the states, we need to find an online source :smile:




i could probably arrange for some 100% bc juice (just pressed juce from the berries with the gink still in it.. its manifactured here in my country, same as pure apple juice, i think its ecological and free from preservatives.

its sold in one litre pacs, but i would have to check prices and such (i seem to remember thta they are quite pricey (like around threeor four dollars). it also depends on how much people will be wanting. if many peopel want it... i suppose i could buy directly from the suplier, and get a better price.


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Edited by Mindzpore (12/12/05 01:48 PM)


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Mindzpore]
    #5052899 - 12/12/05 05:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

well thats about what i payed here...
and it was 37%, id be willing to go in on it, maybe we could organize a group buy, where exacly is your country?
the only thing im worried about is shipping


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: incubaby_421]
    #5055911 - 12/13/05 05:03 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i live in scandinavia, but yesterday i checked the store where i used to buy the stuff (two - three years ago) and i coulndt find it.

i will check a few other shops, or even contact the manifacturer (if there is enough interest).

it might even be possible to get hold of a concentrated version (pure juice that has been concentrated - ie. more than 100%) allthough im not sure how the concentration process would affect the compounds we are interested in.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Mindzpore]
    #5056200 - 12/13/05 09:22 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i dont know, and i wouldnt, dot... would you care to enlightne us juicemaster?

word has come down that i will be once agian voyaging to the outer limits of azwethinkweiz this weekend...

i will try out just BC juice this time, we'll see how that goes

though it might not be till next weekend becuase ive been itching to drop this acid... well see how it works out


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #5057234 - 12/13/05 02:34 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

InfiniteDot - BITCHING AVATAR!

Alex Grey kicks much ass....

visit alexgrey.com


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: DenverMax]
    #5065732 - 12/15/05 05:17 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i will test frozen bc berries as ayahuasca analoug to find out its maoi potensial. how much berries is suggested for full mao inhabitation? i will use mhrb as dmt analoug. while mushroom (with or without lemon) will have effect, mhrb will not if not a maoi is present, agreed?


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: shamantra]
    #5067482 - 12/15/05 04:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

mindzpore and incubaby - pure juice from fresh berries is going to preserve the nutrients, concentration is an industrial process, though the original content should be there, only in a different concentration, obviously.

shamantra: I don't know how mhrb precisely works, sorry.

The abstract of the patent reads:
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?IDX=EP0531155

"The use of an effective monoamine oxidase-inhibitory amount or portion of black currant juice (Ribes nigrum L.) or concentrate or dry extract thereof to activate the brain and central nervous system, in a living animal, especially a human being, in need thereof, and thereby to increase the general cerebral performance, especially in healthy and elderly people, and for the prevention, treatment, and alleviation of neurodegenerative diseases associated with reduced cerebral performance, such as Parkinson's disease, dementia, and mood disorders."

"it was demonstrated that black currant juice and concentrates and dry extracts thereof are characterized by MAO-inhibiting and cerebro-activating effects. According to these properties, black currant juice has the characteristic of enhancing cerebral performance in healthy and elderly people, and in patients suffering from neurodegenerative diseases, especially since it is believed that MAO-B inhibitors can halt the progression of such diseases, e.g., Parkinson's disease, for example, by preventing further degeneration of dopaminergic neurons.For details, inter alia, see SCRIP, May 1989, "Recent Trends in Research and the Treatment of Parkinson's Disease" by Professor William Armstrong (PJB Publications Ltd), cover sheet plus pages 58-61 and 63-67, in support of this relationship and the nexus between MAO-B inhibitory activity of a compound and its utility in the alleviation of neurodegenerative diseases associated with reduced cerebral performance."

"The diluent or carrier may be adapted for the particular type of composition, which may, for example, be a tablet, a coated tablet, a syrup, a tonic, or a drink mix.The amount of black currant juice, concentrate, or dry extract present or employed is conveniently between 10 mg and 10 g per unit dosage form, preferably between 100 mg and 5 g per unit dosage form, and the black currant juice, concentrate, or dry extract is conveniently administered in an amount between 100 mg and 50 g per day, preferably in an amount between 100 mg and 50 g per day, preferably between 1 and 20 grams per day. The black currant juice is advantageously present in the form of an at least 2-fold concentrate thereof, preferably a 4-fold to 8-fold concentrate thereof, and most especially an approximately 5.5-fold concentrate thereof, or in the form of a dry extract thereof."

Result in humans:

MAO type B activity is inhibited in all three subjects with dependency upon dosage and time.

Maximum inhibition is obtained 60 minutes after application, and is between 70 and 90% at optimum dosage of 20 grams. This result was confirmed by 92% inhibition in the controlled test as specified under Test 5, using 50 g juice concentrate.

"The juice of black currant according to the invention can be used as such but is preferably employed in the form of an aqueous concentrate thereof. Any concentration is advantageous, and a concentration of at least twofold, preferably between about fourfold and eightfold, is preferred, with a concentration of about 5.5 fold being especially convenient and preferred. Also preferred is an extract, i.e., a dry extract thereof, such as is readily obtained by lyophilization, spray drying, or forcing the juice under pressure through a cannula, syringe, or venturi. By addition of suitable diluents to the juice, concentrate, or to the dry extract, readily-flowable fluids are obtained."

Quantities in the patent that confirmed the MAOI effect range from 20-50 gr of 5.5 concentrate = 110-275 gr. of pure juice. That's the amount to drink.


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Invisibleshamantra
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #5067701 - 12/15/05 05:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i will make juice from 500g berries to be sure. mhrb (mimosa hostilis rootbark) contains dmt and is only orally active together with a maoi.


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: shamantra]
    #5068089 - 12/15/05 07:08 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i dont beleive i can get fresh berries, i lookes and looked and im hoping tops still has some or got more becuase there was only one bottle left after i bought mine,
i plan on juice, the same as before, it is looking like next weekend though becuase my gf wants to eat the l this weekend, and ive been itching to anyways, i am going to look at a health food store in a nearby town this weekend to see if they have any other sorts of juice that are a higher percentage, as always, i will be sure to keep you posted


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: incubaby_421]
    #5070142 - 12/16/05 07:09 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

500g berries did not do much for dmt. i drank 22g mhrb and couldnt get other effects than gas in my stomach. my standard dose is 3g rue and 20g mhrb.


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: shamantra]
    #5072391 - 12/16/05 06:46 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

what would a cup of undiluted black currant juice do in conjunction with some salvia 20X?

i just happen to have both


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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5072603 - 12/16/05 07:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

hrm....
give it a shot and let us know!
you are now a scientist!


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5072764 - 12/16/05 08:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think salvia works on the same parts of the brain.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5072836 - 12/16/05 08:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

you know, when it comes to tryptamines, stronger isnt always better.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: yousuck]
    #5078208 - 12/18/05 03:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

well i have never had an MAO-I or Salvia before so i had no baseline president. but i did it last night.
i drank 2 full glasses of black currant juice and loaded a bowl with 1/16g or so of 20X a few hours later.

i took a match and took a regular hit, a lungfull, and held it in. i counted to 15.

instantly my eyes became strange to the information they perceived. i thought, "OK, this is it." and that thought echoed OVER AND OVER. it just kept rolling through my head like a flipping wheel of fortune, klickaty klickaty klickaty. "this is it this is it this is it." morphed into "of shit oh shit oh shit" ding ding ding ding ding. and the imagery of the house as i came in was like an old-style projector. a high yet dicernable framerate, no body, just a virtual reality filmstip of what lie before me, i went straight to the sink. somehow, water was needed. i realized i still had my pipe in my hand, but i could not figure out what to do with it so i ditched it on the windowsill over the sink. in the darkness i fumbled around for the faucet, but i kept grabbing air. then i remembered the faucet was a lever and began I chugging water.
my mind felt like poprocks in my mouth, popping at a regular interval, ticka ticka ticka ticka.
then i floated back into the inner sanctum of the house. and sat before the computer to ride it out and make reference to the experience. my body was gone, i was just my eyes, and i wondered if what i was seeing was real, because i couldnt immagine how i was managing to mindfully controll my actions given the curcumstances
the YV was playing king of the hill, it was the episode where they were having a hotdog eating contest, and the cheers of the croud and feeling was directly related to my attempts to use a keyboard. like the characters were cheering me on but laughing when i messed up.
gradually the ticking became less noticable and i just felt bizare about the whole thing, though completely normal.

quite cool, ill have to try a larger dose with a sitter soon.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5087866 - 12/21/05 01:05 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Whew! there's a LOT of repeated info in here...

I believe the experiment shamantra tried would be a good indication of potential MAOI. MAO must be nearly completely inhibited for oral DMT to work. The only thing I'd add would be more at the same 20g~ dose of mhrb. (kinda a waste if you have a proven MAOI, but if you have enough for science... go for it. )

I have noticed a difference with lemon/grapefruit juice mixed with fresh shrooms and slugged, but getting BC juice here isn't happening without internet ordering and paying for shipping. :thumbdown:

I will try the St johns wort with grapefruit/lemon in the next few days.


--------------------
........someday I'll find it.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: mediman0078]
    #5091736 - 12/22/05 12:24 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I've tried CurrantC Black Currant nectar as well as ribena and 2 other imported ones and CurrantC is by far ahead of the pack. For one it has the highest amount of BC juice-37% (Ribena was less than 10%). It's a bit pricey at $3.99US per 16 oz but at that concentrate is really cheaper than the others (and incidently, it tastes much better).
The really good news-
A few asked questions from CurrantC.com has revelled that they sell and ship through the mail and while they normally charge for postage and handeling, they have a "holiday special" where they will ship the juice for free through January 1st.
Lastly, they sell frozen Black Currants from their farm in 2lb packages for $6.00.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Blackcap]
    #5097866 - 12/23/05 03:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

lol, thats great, i wonder if they have caught on....


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: incubaby_421]
    #5101069 - 12/24/05 10:50 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I tried the St.Johns wort with about 40 grams of fresh shroomies yesterday. I took 900 mg of SJW concentrate (to produce mild MAOI) 1 hour prior to slugging a slurry of lemon juice (break down things to psilocin), grapefruitjuice (to inhibit cp450 in the liver), and the shrooms.

It was a pretty hard trip, but not significantly stronger than you'd normally get from 40 grams fresh. I definently enjoyed taking the shrooms in the grapefruitjuice though... couldn't really taste 'em (which is great 'cause I think they taste like sucking on Athlete's Foot covered toes). I just had to leave the blender going for a bit to make sure all the chunks were chopped up real fine. Visually, I had a stronger "wiggling" of everything in my sight but no mind blowing morphing of things into other things. Thought wise the trip was fairly normal. The body high definently seems stronger this way. The trip did seem to last longer than normal also, probably by about 2 hours.

All in all, a sucessful experiment, but nothing super mind blowing. I'll order some of that CurrantC after Christmas and we'll see what the deal is with it. :laugh:


--------------------
........someday I'll find it.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5121579 - 12/30/05 10:58 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mitchnast said:
well i have never had an MAO-I or Salvia before so i had no baseline president. but i did it last night.
i drank 2 full glasses of black currant juice and loaded a bowl with 1/16g or so of 20X a few hours later.





This doesn't make sense. MAO-I's work in the stomach, right? How could it have any effect on the Salvia-intake which doesn't go through there??


--------------------
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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: infinitedot]
    #5128210 - 01/01/06 08:12 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, I just tried this experiment following the procedure close as possible, without the results that I've read here about. Definetly not 8 or 10x, maybe .5x booster.

------

Black Currant Juice brand: 'Looza' Blackcurrant nectar
All natural ingredients, no preservatives
Sold in US
retailer: Michael's Organic Market
30% juice, Drank a liter each with 2 other trippers (833.3mL is the dose with 30%).



*the one in middle*

Juice Quantity: 1L
Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
Mushrooms Quantity: 1.6 gr. dry
Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, potent stuff.
Hours since last meal: 7 h.
Description of effects compared vs. no juice: I could tell the difference between that and just the 'lemon juiced' trip, but not much trip amplitude difference.
Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: See above.
Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): Barely.
Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: ~ .5x
Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: ^^
Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 15 mins. Kicked in in a snap. Me, and two other trippers doing the same thing as me tripped hardest during the first hour. So we peaked right away, and then went on on a downward slope of 'shroomage'. Haha.
Time to onset of visual disturbance: 15 mins.
Time to peak (rough estimate): ~ 25 minutes.
Time to first sign of diminishing effects: Hard to tell, maybe 5 hours in?
Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours, but I was at an EDM party, and the music always keeps me going.


------

I dont know why this didnt work as well as everyone else said it did. I didnt eat a thing all day, and neither did the other 2 trippers. Definetly tripped harder than Lemon/Lime trip, but not that big of a difference.


--------------------
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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: Fospher]
    #5128611 - 01/01/06 03:06 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

hey guys i should have posted this a while back when it happened but one night i had about 1.5 grams of shrooms. so i took a double shot glass and took lemon and lime juice filled the double shot glass up and gounded a gram for me in one glass and a .5 for my girl but after a while she didnt wanna take it after i took mine so i waited 15 minutes to make sure she didnt want it well, then after another 10 minutes i decided to take it why waste it.. well, all i know is that must have been a bad idea cause the peak i had was intense i got freaked out my hearing kept coming and going and my vision got bright i mean kinda tunnel vision then when this happening to me breathing felt really unnormal to me .. i was freaked especially since my internet was down and i couldnt access the shroomery. i almost called a buddy of mine that shrooms to help me out by calming me. and i didnt wanna wake me girl up cause she would have either freaked or blew it off as if i was just tripping. so i told myself i gotta get this outta me. but then after what seemed like 2 hours it was gone and then like nothing happened it all went away just slight traces


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: tony8404]
    #5130462 - 01/02/06 06:58 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Ehhh, so how much Rebina am i supposed to drink? I got one 22% juice, so that means i need to drink WHOLE BOTTLE !!!!!!

Better to get some fresh berries and squash those into 225g


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
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Hilary Duff!!
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Jalruza]
    #5130466 - 01/02/06 07:04 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I found a better use for Gammie bear juce, mix it with beer baby :smile:


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Jalruza]
    #5130545 - 01/02/06 08:45 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Took a gram and a half a about 2 hours ago. Time is dripping all over the place. I love you all so very much. Happy new year. I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond buddha!!!!!!!!! It works like crazy.

Level 5++++++++++


--------------------
Truth is in the eye of the beholder


Edited by Forkbender (01/02/06 08:46 AM)


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Jalruza]
    #5132917 - 01/02/06 10:30 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

:argh:


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