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 LifeIsSweet
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 71
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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 can science prove/disprove reincarnation? 
#4945138 - 11/17/05 02:18 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Since consciousness (singular) can be described as a fluid collection of mental events within one lifetime, and after we die our matter becomes a part of other matter, is this enough to prove that reincarnation is just little more than a theory of collective consciousness?
Is there or will there ever be any way to know if once we are gone, if we are ever coming back? This answer might seem obvious at first, but I would like to see what you all have to say...
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GulGen
Old Bird
 
Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 307
Loc: I live in the Internet
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: can science prove/disprove reincarnation? [Re: LifeIsSweet]
#4945281 - 11/17/05 04:54 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've recently read that there are a lot of substantiated reports out there where people, especially young children, have detailed enough memories from past lives that facts can be checked and confirmed. Often such people will have knowledge from these reported past lives that defies normal explanation, which the author took as proof for reincarnation.
While I am of the opinion (for that and many other reasons) that there's a lot more going on in the universe than science can currently explain, I see no reason that either that evidence or anything else that could ever come about would be adequate proof for reincarnation specifically. Anything that could suggest reincarnation could just as easily be explained away by psychic abilities, other intelligences planting thoughts in us, or any number of other hypotheses, few if any of which would most scientists take seriously. If something doesn't fit, it's easiest to just say that it doesn't happen and ignore anything suggesting otherwise.
The problem with metaphysical / paranormal concepts is that even if there is sufficient evidence that something is going on that we can't explain, it's difficult or impossible to pinpoint precisely what. There are too many untestable explanations and uncontrollable variables for science to be able to do much of anything with it, even among those brave enough to try.
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 Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
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Re: can science prove/disprove reincarnation? [Re: LifeIsSweet]
#4945476 - 11/17/05 07:43 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just as you said "consciousness can be described as"...think about that. It can be described, but it cannot be found since there is no consensus on what it is. The question makes no sense.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: can science prove/disprove reincarnation? [Re: LifeIsSweet]
#4945501 - 11/17/05 07:56 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes we can. No we can't Yes we can. No we can't. yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yea, nay, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yea, nay.
You get the idea. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
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 Re: can science prove/disprove reincarnation? [Re: LifeIsSweet]
#4945717 - 11/17/05 09:20 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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can anyone prove that they prove? :P
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secretmachine
lover of mystery
Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 72
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: can science prove/disprove reincarnation? [Re: Gomp]
#4945982 - 11/17/05 10:43 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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well science is flawed in my opinion beccause of how much it has changed since its inception. 100 years ago what we have now would have been considered impossible. Another flaw is that science is not one person with one opinion, it is a collection of diverse groups. and how can we decide which one is absolutely right. Even the things they are sure of such as chemistry could be seen in other ways.. but science has picked one way and closed the book on further perspectives and ideas, such as chemistry or biology, math etc.
thinking of all this i have rejected science and believe in whatever works in the moment.. i have learned that life is ever changing, and beliefs have to change with it, if i want to stay within the flow of life.
on to the subject, i have had many many experiences with reincarnation. It is a undeniable reality for me. However i will not try to prove it because its something that needs to be experienced, otherwise whats the point of believing at all. I dont need it validated by anyone anyways, the sum of my exeriences more than make up for it.
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A civilization based on authority-and-submission is a civilization without the means of self-correction. Effective communication flows only one way: from master-group to servile-group. Any cyberneticist knows that such a one-way communication channel lacks feedback and cannot behave "intelligently."
the principle of authority" was the "eminently theological, metaphysical and political idea that the masses, always incapable of governing themselves, must submit at all times to the benevolent yoke of a wisdom and a justice, which in one way or another, is imposed from above."
"no one should be entrusted with power, inasmuch as anyone invested with authority must . . . became an oppressor and exploiter of society."
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Ped
Interested In Your Brain
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: can science prove/disprove reincarnation? [Re: secretmachine]
#4946070 - 11/17/05 11:18 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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This present moment of consciousness exists as a dependent arising: it depends on other things for its' appearance. For example, if there were no objects in our sensory field to apprehend, we would not be able to maintain a sense consciousness because such consciousness depends on those things. By the same token, the very foundation of each instant of consciousness is the prior instant of consciousness: without a prior moment of consciousness, there would be no basis for our present consciousness. Because the very phenomenon of consciousness is a dependent arising in this way, it follows that consciousness has no beginning and no end, and is of a different nature than body. Since the body has a beginning and an end, we can further conclude that the body and it's inhabiting consciousness are phenomenon unique to each other, and that consciousness undergoes the experiential process in life after life in many different forms.
Consciousness and the universe are of the same nature. The nature of consciousness is clarity; it's function is to know and perceive. We say that a drinking glass is clear, but it is not clear enough to know and perceive. Just as worlds thrive, perish, and then thrive again without the need for a new universe, so too different creatures thrive, perish, and then thrive again without the need for a new consciousness.
When we go to sleep at night, our body ceases to appear to our consciousness. We may even take on a new body in our dream. Whilst dreaming, we believe that our body is our possession, and we protect and cherish it in the same way we cherish our waking body now. But when we awake from this dream, our dream body disappears, and the basis of our imputation changes to our waking body. When we die, a similar process occurs. Consciousness becomes very subtle, and our waking body disappears. When we awaken in the next life, our basis of imputation has changed, and we protect and cherish our new body in the same way we did our old. It is not until we achieve full and complete awakening that we cease this cycle of dreaming, waking, and death and rebirth.
Once it is understood that the waking world possesses identical substance as the dream world, in that it is like a reflection on a mirror, it is easy to entertain the possibility of reincarnation. However, science cannot prove or disprove reincarnation because reincarnation is understood by apprehending truths more subtle than science is interested in investigating. Reincarnation can only be accepted or rejected by one's personal contemplative process only.
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 Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace
Edited by Ped (11/17/05 11:25 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: can science prove/disprove reincarnation? [Re: secretmachine]
#4946393 - 11/17/05 12:44 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
thinking of all this i have rejected science
A bold and sweeping statement.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: can science prove/disprove reincarnation? [Re: Ped]
#4946936 - 11/17/05 02:44 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ped said:
This present moment of consciousness exists as a dependent arising: it depends on other things for its' appearance. For example, if there were no objects in our sensory field to apprehend, we would not be able to maintain a sense consciousness because such consciousness depends on those things. By the same token, the very foundation of each instant of consciousness is the prior instant of consciousness: without a prior moment of consciousness, there would be no basis for our present consciousness. Because the very phenomenon of consciousness is a dependent arising in this way, it follows that consciousness has no beginning and no end, and is of a different nature than body. Since the body has a beginning and an end, we can further conclude that the body and it's inhabiting consciousness are phenomenon unique to each other, and that consciousness undergoes the experiential process in life after life in many different forms.
Consciousness and the universe are of the same nature. The nature of consciousness is clarity; it's function is to know and perceive. We say that a drinking glass is clear, but it is not clear enough to know and perceive. Just as worlds thrive, perish, and then thrive again without the need for a new universe, so too different creatures thrive, perish, and then thrive again without the need for a new consciousness.
When we go to sleep at night, our body ceases to appear to our consciousness. We may even take on a new body in our dream. Whilst dreaming, we believe that our body is our possession, and we protect and cherish it in the same way we cherish our waking body now. But when we awake from this dream, our dream body disappears, and the basis of our imputation changes to our waking body. When we die, a similar process occurs. Consciousness becomes very subtle, and our waking body disappears. When we awaken in the next life, our basis of imputation has changed, and we protect and cherish our new body in the same way we did our old. It is not until we achieve full and complete awakening that we cease this cycle of dreaming, waking, and death and rebirth.
Once it is understood that the waking world possesses identical substance as the dream world, in that it is like a reflection on a mirror, it is easy to entertain the possibility of reincarnation. However, science cannot prove or disprove reincarnation because reincarnation is understood by apprehending truths more subtle than science is interested in investigating. Reincarnation can only be accepted or rejected by one's personal contemplative process only.
excelent post
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