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InvisibleIcelander
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Jesus saw the Matrix.
    #4945747 - 11/17/05 09:33 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The movie Matrix was a great metaphor for the condition of human life inside of culture.

The culture breeds humans to preform a function for the culture (provide a source of renewable energy) and trains them to believe things like, "I am free", "This is a free country" My country is right and good and it cares for me personally" etc.

I think Jesus was very aware of this in his day. He told people he did not come to bring peace but a sword, and would set father against son. It was Peter I think, (one of those silly disciples) who said that he would be ready to follow Jesus as soon as he buried his father and took care of some family business. Jesus told him. (I so love this quote) Let the dead bury their dead.

Yes I think he knew very well what the matrix was. Most of his followers to this day don't even have a clue. Not many people have eyes that can see.

You were born in the Matrix and so you can't see it. Every once in awhile someone sees it. Psychedelics can help but other things can be a catalyst for it. Jesus saw it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4945771 - 11/17/05 09:41 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Agreed. I like how Jesus saw right through the Pharisees and their faux-spirituality, and how when he looked at the Jewish laws and traditions, he saw the meaning behind them, and didn't get caught up in their literal meaning. I'd love to see what Jesus would say to Pat Robertson if he ever met him(or better yet, what Pat Robertson would say to Jesus).


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Silversoul]
    #4945792 - 11/17/05 09:48 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Sorry, I'm not talking about the Pharisees and Pat Robertson. I'm talking about you and me in the culture following all the rules and being good citizens and bringing up the next generation to do the same, all the while telling ourselves that things are about to get better and more just and all that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSolutarch
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4945795 - 11/17/05 09:50 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I'm bringing up the next generation to see the Matrix for what it is.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4945801 - 11/17/05 09:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Sorry, I'm not talking about the Pharisees and Pat Robertson. I'm talking about you and me in the culture following all the rules and being good citizens and bringing up the next generation to do the same, all the while telling ourselves that things are about to get better and more just and all that.



The Pharisees and Pat Robertson are all part of that.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Solutarch]
    #4945802 - 11/17/05 09:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

And what is that?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4945807 - 11/17/05 09:54 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Why does the matrix have to be support for Jesus and a criticism of our culture? Why can't it apply on thousands of personal and communal levels, why can't the matrix be every thing, Everything, all things, all selves, all actions, etc?

Important to note in the film was that although Neo got out of the matrix he found that there were other social/intellectual matrixes to overcome.

You may remove yourself from one matrix, but you're deep into the shit of many others.

The matrix is the self-reproducing gum in your hair.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Silversoul]
    #4945810 - 11/17/05 09:57 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Sorry, I'm not talking about the Pharisees and Pat Robertson. I'm talking about you and me in the culture following all the rules and being good citizens and bringing up the next generation to do the same, all the while telling ourselves that things are about to get better and more just and all that.



The Pharisees and Pat Robertson are all part of that.




Granted, but pointing at the leaders or anyone else defocuses oneself from the part one plays day to day in supporting the matrix. Often while telling ourselves that we are outside of it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSolutarch
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4945833 - 11/17/05 10:04 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
And what is that?



That is a word.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Solutarch]
    #4945855 - 11/17/05 10:12 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

That's what I thought.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Lakefingers]
    #4945873 - 11/17/05 10:15 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
Why does the matrix have to be support for Jesus and a criticism of our culture? Why can't it apply on thousands of personal and communal levels, why can't the matrix be every thing, Everything, all things, all selves, all actions, etc?

Important to note in the film was that although Neo got out of the matrix he found that there were other social/intellectual matrixes to overcome.

You may remove yourself from one matrix, but you're deep into the shit of many others.

The matrix is the self-reproducing gum in your hair.




Good post. It applys to Jesus and our culture and all those other things as well. I want to see who wants to examine the matrix. To do that you first have to admit that you are caught up in it IMO. Then you can explore down any road and thru any door.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4945889 - 11/17/05 10:18 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

People really want to change the world. IMO this is where it starts. Otherwise it's business as usual. Weather you think you're a republican or democrat, in reality there is no difference. It's an illusion that the beliefs are diffenent.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4946006 - 11/17/05 10:51 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

neat! I love the stuff on this board lately! :p


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Gomp]
    #4946017 - 11/17/05 10:55 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Ya, yesterday was fun.

Is it because the Swami persona is gone?  :rofl2: :rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4946400 - 11/17/05 12:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Is it because the Swami persona is gone?  :rofl2: :rofl2:




He lives on. :mushroom2:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4946409 - 11/17/05 12:47 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

...as long as a few remain who still keep the faith.  :wink:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4946427 - 11/17/05 12:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Do you know something? :sherlock: I heard a rumor he was a russian spy and has been called back to the Kremlin. :whitespy: :blackspy:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4946436 - 11/17/05 12:51 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I think that message got garbled.  The rumor is that he likes Russian dressing on his salad, and his computer was taken over by gremlins. :wink:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Veritas]
    #4946449 - 11/17/05 12:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Well I did hear actually, that Geokills has him bound and gagged in his basement. Once a day he goes down and taunts him and tickle tortures him. I guess he just got to the end of his roap and who can blame him.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4947600 - 11/17/05 04:42 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, but if I was immortal, lived in heaven, and possessed omniscience I wouldn't waste my time watching some movie...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4947685 - 11/17/05 04:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You don't know that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4947700 - 11/17/05 05:00 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

If I was Jesus I would fuck with the fabric of spacetime and give the mortals something to ponder...then when I thought they were close to understanding it, I would change the laws of physics on them. I am sure Dad (God) wouldn't mind.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4947738 - 11/17/05 05:07 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Once again, you don't know that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4947756 - 11/17/05 05:10 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I said if "I" was Jesus. I know what I would do. I would also condemn people to Christian hell...even if they were good Chriastians...that would really fuck with them.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4947840 - 11/17/05 05:24 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You said once that you didn't know who you were. And you could not tell what you would do even if you was "I" because the circumstances would be different. You can only know what you would do as Hue. If you were Jesus you would feel different.

Also your preception of who Jesus is, seems to be based totally on who his followers are and what they have done in his name. Don't you want to do better than that?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/17/05 05:25 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4947854 - 11/17/05 05:26 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

All I have to do is ask "What would Jesus do?" and all sorts of fun ideas come to mind. Divine inspiration...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4947862 - 11/17/05 05:28 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

In reality all we have about Jesus is some non-factual, anecdotal evidence of his existance and a huge work of fiction. I don't know anything about him, and neither does anyone else. The spirit is with me always...I don't need a semi-fictional Jesus.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4948057 - 11/17/05 06:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Or Don Juan or any other person you have not met and heard the words attributed to them directly from their mouth.

I'm using the bible just the same way I use Journey to Xtlan. I really like some of what "Jesus said". It's powerful and feels true. I can test it and see. I don't give a rats ass about his followers or the Modern day religious Christian folk. You got off track of where I wanted to go on this thread so I just followed you for awhile for some fun.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948332 - 11/17/05 07:12 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I agree. I have read the Bible. There is truth there, but I tend to distance myself from it on moral grounds. I do not like to appear to support a religion that has inspired so much bloodshed and strife in the world. I will say that philosophically the Bible has nothing that any other landmark religious text does not have. There is truth to be had in the Torah and the Quran as well, but I do not wish to support those religions either. All of that stuff is available in more palatable form elsewhere. The vast bulk of my religious truth originates from within myself. The books I have read on the Tao or shamanism have just shown me how to find it, and suggested tools for my use. You must bear with me. I spent 4 hours today defending the separation of church and state and discussing why intelligent design is NOT a theory with a Christian extremist. It ended with this person telling me that I should be a Christian, even if I do not have faith, just to keep my ass covered in the afterlife. I guess even lip service Christians are good enough for most people.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948402 - 11/17/05 07:23 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I like the comparrison, but I don't think it's possible to "unplug" oneself (or anyone) from this matrix. As Lakefingers said, even as you step out of one matrix...you will be stepping into another.

The key is just to take that red pill. See the matrix, even if you can't remove yourself from it. Jesus had the right idea - stick around. Try to get a few others to pop that red pill before your body is recycled to be fed to the next generation :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: trendal]
    #4948637 - 11/17/05 08:03 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:Now this is what I have been thinking about. You can't get out of the matrix completely. You can become aware of it and negate some of its effects. You can also use things like controlled folly (Don Juan) to help one live in the matrix.

Now who knows for sure if someone could get out of all the matrixes? These could go on forever. But it might be possible to get free of this one if only for periods of time. That would be good. But it goes against the grain of almost everybody. So you're on your own to some extent. That has been my experience.

Everyday you can take the red pill once you know its effects.

Great post. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4948727 - 11/17/05 08:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I agree. I have read the Bible. There is truth there, but I tend to distance myself from it on moral grounds. I do not like to appear to support a religion that has inspired so much bloodshed and strife in the world. I will say that philosophically the Bible has nothing that any other landmark religious text does not have. There is truth to be had in the Torah and the Quran as well, but I do not wish to support those religions either. All of that stuff is available in more palatable form elsewhere. The vast bulk of my religious truth originates from within myself. The books I have read on the Tao or shamanism have just shown me how to find it, and suggested tools for my use. You must bear with me. I spent 4 hours today defending the separation of church and state and discussing why intelligent design is NOT a theory with a Christian extremist. It ended with this person telling me that I should be a Christian, even if I do not have faith, just to keep my ass covered in the afterlife. I guess even lip service Christians are good enough for most people.




I'm not supporting any religions. I don't even care about that. I think that's one thing you don't really like about the way I think. I don't concern myself with things in the matrix unless I am using controlled folly. I just don't care about the culture per se. I am trying to see what is beyond it and I have limited time. I distract myself enough without letting the culture do it all the time too. The morality of the culture is part of the trap for me. It's all about weather your a "good" person or a "bad" guy. I'm not concerned with that anymore. Like I said, I want to see whats beyond good and bad. What am I without culture? That's a good question for someone on the shamanic path. Because being caught in the culture without "seeing" it is unhealthy IMO. And shamanism for me is about healing. Just my personal take on the goal of all this bru ha ha. The Universe wants to know, "how much can you take"? That's evolution to me. Personal evolution. The rest is a done deal. You grow old and do what you're told and you die. Then your offspring pick up the ball and do it all again. Maybe it's a kind of evolution too. But I think you can take it slow, like millions of years or you can take a risk and jump ahead. Just for your own personal experience. Maybe it doesn't matter either way. That's what the Tao would say.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948731 - 11/17/05 08:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Now who knows for sure if someone could get out of all the matrixes?

I think yes, technically in theory you could have total freedom - unplug yourself from any and all matrices. I don't think it's possible to do on a personal level, though. How could you ever know if you were free from any control? We are all on our own, and can only trust our personal experience.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinesignoffate
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948761 - 11/17/05 08:26 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Am I the only one that doesn't understand what your trying to tell us?
What do you think Jesus meant by that Quote, "let the dead bury the dead"?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948762 - 11/17/05 08:26 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You can become aware of it and negate some of its effects.

In the movie, Neo learns to manipulate the matrix at first by learning that it has rules. Rules give definition and that gives points of attack - "some rules can be bent, others...broken".

Computer hacking offers the same draw. Any and every system can be broken, simply by being a system - with rules. No coincidence that the movie centers around hackers :wink:

and cyberpunk


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: signoffate]
    #4948901 - 11/17/05 08:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

signoffate said:
Am I the only one that doesn't understand what your trying to tell us?
What do you think Jesus meant by that Quote, "let the dead bury the dead"?




Well, here's what I think he meant. The family and friends and Peters whole social circle were asleep. They were completely run by the culture and were completely plugged in to believing the cultures view of reality. And they weren't goint to wake up. So really they were dead because they weren't living athuentic lives of their own. Just marching in step like sheep to the slaughter, generation after generation down the long march of history, where we keep telling ourselves the same tired stories, but we don't know that the last generation told themselves the same thing because our life span is short.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948924 - 11/17/05 08:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You are right in one respect. I do think that you view detachment from the culture to be a positive thing, while I think that as a member of humanity one must retain some level (but not overmuch) of attachment to the culture. I see my actions as something that can modify the culture in positive way. In order to change something one must be able to identify with it on at least some level.

You misinterpret my sense of morality. I am not concerned with good and evil. I am concerned with what is practical. If one concerns the self with purely practical matters then so called "good and bad" take care of themselves. Very often you think that I am taking a stand for the side of truth and honor when in fact I am just stating what seems to be of practical value to me. I do also have a strong sense of aesthetics that play a role in my moral evaluations, and I find the Christian Bible to lack aesthetic appeal to me. I do not find it to be poetic or beautiful, but ugly and filled with hate. There is some wisdom to be found, but the ugliness and violence is much more prevalent. Here is an example of my thinking here:

"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4948955 - 11/17/05 09:01 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I dig. But I was just using Jesus to get peoples attention. I don't give a fuck about the bible. I wanted to talk about the matrix. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948973 - 11/17/05 09:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, but if you put Jesus in there and he will hog the stage...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Lakefingers]
    #4949032 - 11/17/05 09:12 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"The matrix is the self-reproducing gum in your hair. "

thats exactly what i was telling my sister last night!!!!

:eek:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4949075 - 11/17/05 09:18 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Yeah, but if you put Jesus in there and he will hog the stage...




He certainly did with you. :tongue: Maybe because you didn't like the subject.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4949112 - 11/17/05 09:25 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

there is as many ways to interpret the matrix as their are people to watch it. Kind of like a rorschart inkblot test or whatever. we all see something subtly different in it.

in the matrix, when you "wake up" it is too a nightmare world. To me, waking up is a joyous process.

your interpretation is interesting

i would say the buddha also saw the matrix but in a profoundly different way

or lao tzu.

If you could be any spiritual master, live their life, who would you be?

i would be lao tzu.



--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4949207 - 11/17/05 09:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Absolutely lao tzu.

Like I said at the beginning I saw the matrix movie as a metaphore.

Waking up is not to the nightmare but from it IMO.

Waking up is joyful. To wake up one must sense they are asleep and find some way to jolt themselves.

That's what I was thinking about here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4949815 - 11/18/05 12:32 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"Fairness? Decency? How do you expect fairness and decency on a planet of sleeping people?"


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4950682 - 11/18/05 07:30 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Very good question


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Silversoul]
    #4950849 - 11/18/05 08:32 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Agreed. I like how Jesus saw right through the Pharisees and their faux-spirituality, and how when he looked at the Jewish laws and traditions, he saw the meaning behind them, and didn't get caught up in their literal meaning. I'd love to see what Jesus would say to Pat Robertson if he ever met him(or better yet, what Pat Robertson would say to Jesus).




Jesus would call Robertson a fucking nut, because he is. Hopefully then he would kill him.


--------------------
:orly:



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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4950952 - 11/18/05 09:18 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Or at least whip him a bit and overturn his money table. :bondage: :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Veritas]
    #4950969 - 11/18/05 09:29 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
...as long as a few remain who still keep the faith.  :wink:




Not consciously keeping the faith, but as a natural effect of interaction with the Swami persona over time and the changes and realizations and new understandings that are produced from that interaction.

:grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4951038 - 11/18/05 09:57 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I think the true Jesus (not what churches made of him) was much like Neo or any wise man.
Looking for the 'true nature of total reality' behind the mirrors. Crossing the stage and looking behind is often all you need for a wake-up call.
The ignorance of the satisfied human ego is the only wall which needs to be brought down, in history, now and in the future.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4951076 - 11/18/05 10:09 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Spiritual alchemy. :grin:

Re: Waking up within the matrix

Relevant quote from Vernon Howard (we're allowed to post his quotes on thisforum, right? :wink:):

"Awareness of weakness is the same as strength."


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Veritas]
    #4951131 - 11/18/05 10:21 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I saw that today and I really like it. I was just saying to a friend in another forum One cannot always be impeccable. When you are not, admitting and accepting that makes you impeccable again.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4951146 - 11/18/05 10:27 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Indeed. :grin:


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4952029 - 11/18/05 02:35 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I like The Matrix alright, but I not big on Jesus. The Matrix 2 and 3 sucked hard.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4952062 - 11/18/05 02:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Well it's not about the matrix movie. I was using the matrix concept from the movie as a metaphor for how we all live in the culture. Invested in it but not necessarily by choice but because we are programmed to accept it as the only reality. We don't question most of our beliefs to see if they are really our personal beliefs. Maybe they are some cultural program that is so well in place that we can't see that these beliefs don't come from us. Don Juan described people in the matrix as "Phantoms" if that helps your understanding.



That's what I'm talking about, not some Hollywood movie. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4952067 - 11/18/05 02:47 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The fallacy of viewing our world in a matrix like fashion is that you speak of the matrix as being the consensual reality, but since the non-consensual reality is totally subjective, if you step out of the consensual reality you find yourself in your own subjective reality that has no validity to anyone else. You simply walk out of one matrix into another one of your own construction. I like the idea that our objecttive material reality is contructed from energy (data in the movie), but that energy is but the framework that we weave our consensual and subjective realities around. While the consensual reality may be a dream or an illusion you cannot disregard it as the rest of the species uses it as their primary medium for communications. Contact with other humans is necessary and almost unavoidable so one must work within that consensual reality. The construct pf the movie also breaks down in implying that there is an ultimate or "true" reality when there is not. There are merely many matrixs', but the red pill does not exist. What you may think is a red pill is merely the doorway to another matrix. There I gave a sensible reply.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4952100 - 11/18/05 02:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks. Whew!

This is exactly the discussion I was hoping for. If we are ready to admit to some kind of matrix then we can explore it and maybe not be so unconsciousness about it. I agree that we must work within the context of what people believe. That's where controlled folly comes in. To be in it but not of it. And if we must enter another matrix maybe it can be more expansive. Small groups of psychonauts can explore this. I just wanted to see if anyone else could see what I see. It's lonely out here. :grin: Not really. I have several friends here who believe much the same as me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4952134 - 11/18/05 03:04 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"The fallacy of viewing our world in a matrix like fashion is that you speak of the matrix as being the consensual reality, but since the non-consensual reality is totally subjective, if you step out of the consensual reality you find yourself in your own subjective reality that has no validity to anyone else"

wow. one of the best paragraphs ever. i agree with everything you said their.

i like my own subjective matrix. thats where i go to fly, explore outerspace, walk through walls, and breath underwater. The consensual matrix is where i go about the somewhat duller but also rewarding activities of education and earning money. as well as the very rewarding experiences of inter-reality communication with other beings. friendship, true friendship, is really a miracle that we have the consensual matrix to thank for.

without this illusory zone between you and me, we could not really meet and greet. or something.

Of course, the subjective reality matrix gives us the opportunity to meet and befriend infinite facets of ourselves, which is also empowering.

all in all, id say the creator did it perfectly. He allowed us both this fantastic consensual illusion, and the means to escape it at will. couldnt ask for more.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4952196 - 11/18/05 03:15 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Well most people don't realize that the world is merely a reflection of theirselves. The parts of the reflection that we share through personal agreement comprise the "matix" like consensual reality. By learning to recognize the consensual reality as a reflection of ones self gives one the ability to manipulate it to one's own end. To do this one must simply take full responsibility for one's actions.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4952278 - 11/18/05 03:33 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"Well most people don't realize that the world is merely a reflection of theirselves. By learning to recognize the consensual reality as a reflection of ones self gives one the ability to manipulate it to one's own end"

i agree one hundred percent. but dont let skorpivo hear you say that!

:shiftyeyes:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4952360 - 11/18/05 03:48 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Well most people don't realize that the world is merely a reflection of theirselves.

Someone once said to a great philosopher:

"What a bunch of morons they must have been, back in the middle ages, to have looked at the sunrise every morning and think that what they were seeing was the Sun going around the Earth - when any schoolboy these days knows that the Earth goes around the Sun."

To which the philosopher replied:

"Yeah....but I wonder what it would have looked like if the Sun DID go around the Earth?"

The point: it would have looked exactly the same.

We see what our knowledge tells us we are seeing. The way we see the world is, as you said, a reflection of what we are (or how we see ourselves).

(thank you, james burke)


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Silversoul]
    #4954783 - 11/19/05 06:44 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
I'd love to see what Jesus would say to Pat Robertson if he ever met him(or better yet, what Pat Robertson would say to Jesus).




"You should have stayed dead!"


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