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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4947685 - 11/17/05 04:57 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

You don't know that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4947700 - 11/17/05 05:00 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

If I was Jesus I would fuck with the fabric of spacetime and give the mortals something to ponder...then when I thought they were close to understanding it, I would change the laws of physics on them. I am sure Dad (God) wouldn't mind.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4947738 - 11/17/05 05:07 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Once again, you don't know that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4947756 - 11/17/05 05:10 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I said if "I" was Jesus. I know what I would do. I would also condemn people to Christian hell...even if they were good Chriastians...that would really fuck with them.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4947840 - 11/17/05 05:24 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

You said once that you didn't know who you were. And you could not tell what you would do even if you was "I" because the circumstances would be different. You can only know what you would do as Hue. If you were Jesus you would feel different.

Also your preception of who Jesus is, seems to be based totally on who his followers are and what they have done in his name. Don't you want to do better than that?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (11/17/05 05:25 PM)

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4947854 - 11/17/05 05:26 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

All I have to do is ask "What would Jesus do?" and all sorts of fun ideas come to mind. Divine inspiration...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4947862 - 11/17/05 05:28 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

In reality all we have about Jesus is some non-factual, anecdotal evidence of his existance and a huge work of fiction. I don't know anything about him, and neither does anyone else. The spirit is with me always...I don't need a semi-fictional Jesus.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4948057 - 11/17/05 06:13 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Or Don Juan or any other person you have not met and heard the words attributed to them directly from their mouth.

I'm using the bible just the same way I use Journey to Xtlan. I really like some of what "Jesus said". It's powerful and feels true. I can test it and see. I don't give a rats ass about his followers or the Modern day religious Christian folk. You got off track of where I wanted to go on this thread so I just followed you for awhile for some fun.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948332 - 11/17/05 07:12 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I agree. I have read the Bible. There is truth there, but I tend to distance myself from it on moral grounds. I do not like to appear to support a religion that has inspired so much bloodshed and strife in the world. I will say that philosophically the Bible has nothing that any other landmark religious text does not have. There is truth to be had in the Torah and the Quran as well, but I do not wish to support those religions either. All of that stuff is available in more palatable form elsewhere. The vast bulk of my religious truth originates from within myself. The books I have read on the Tao or shamanism have just shown me how to find it, and suggested tools for my use. You must bear with me. I spent 4 hours today defending the separation of church and state and discussing why intelligent design is NOT a theory with a Christian extremist. It ended with this person telling me that I should be a Christian, even if I do not have faith, just to keep my ass covered in the afterlife. I guess even lip service Christians are good enough for most people.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948402 - 11/17/05 07:23 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I like the comparrison, but I don't think it's possible to "unplug" oneself (or anyone) from this matrix. As Lakefingers said, even as you step out of one matrix...you will be stepping into another.

The key is just to take that red pill. See the matrix, even if you can't remove yourself from it. Jesus had the right idea - stick around. Try to get a few others to pop that red pill before your body is recycled to be fed to the next generation :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: trendal]
    #4948637 - 11/17/05 08:03 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup:Now this is what I have been thinking about. You can't get out of the matrix completely. You can become aware of it and negate some of its effects. You can also use things like controlled folly (Don Juan) to help one live in the matrix.

Now who knows for sure if someone could get out of all the matrixes? These could go on forever. But it might be possible to get free of this one if only for periods of time. That would be good. But it goes against the grain of almost everybody. So you're on your own to some extent. That has been my experience.

Everyday you can take the red pill once you know its effects.

Great post. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4948727 - 11/17/05 08:19 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I agree. I have read the Bible. There is truth there, but I tend to distance myself from it on moral grounds. I do not like to appear to support a religion that has inspired so much bloodshed and strife in the world. I will say that philosophically the Bible has nothing that any other landmark religious text does not have. There is truth to be had in the Torah and the Quran as well, but I do not wish to support those religions either. All of that stuff is available in more palatable form elsewhere. The vast bulk of my religious truth originates from within myself. The books I have read on the Tao or shamanism have just shown me how to find it, and suggested tools for my use. You must bear with me. I spent 4 hours today defending the separation of church and state and discussing why intelligent design is NOT a theory with a Christian extremist. It ended with this person telling me that I should be a Christian, even if I do not have faith, just to keep my ass covered in the afterlife. I guess even lip service Christians are good enough for most people.




I'm not supporting any religions. I don't even care about that. I think that's one thing you don't really like about the way I think. I don't concern myself with things in the matrix unless I am using controlled folly. I just don't care about the culture per se. I am trying to see what is beyond it and I have limited time. I distract myself enough without letting the culture do it all the time too. The morality of the culture is part of the trap for me. It's all about weather your a "good" person or a "bad" guy. I'm not concerned with that anymore. Like I said, I want to see whats beyond good and bad. What am I without culture? That's a good question for someone on the shamanic path. Because being caught in the culture without "seeing" it is unhealthy IMO. And shamanism for me is about healing. Just my personal take on the goal of all this bru ha ha. The Universe wants to know, "how much can you take"? That's evolution to me. Personal evolution. The rest is a done deal. You grow old and do what you're told and you die. Then your offspring pick up the ball and do it all again. Maybe it's a kind of evolution too. But I think you can take it slow, like millions of years or you can take a risk and jump ahead. Just for your own personal experience. Maybe it doesn't matter either way. That's what the Tao would say.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948731 - 11/17/05 08:19 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Now who knows for sure if someone could get out of all the matrixes?

I think yes, technically in theory you could have total freedom - unplug yourself from any and all matrices. I don't think it's possible to do on a personal level, though. How could you ever know if you were free from any control? We are all on our own, and can only trust our personal experience.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Offlinesignoffate
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948761 - 11/17/05 08:26 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Am I the only one that doesn't understand what your trying to tell us?
What do you think Jesus meant by that Quote, "let the dead bury the dead"?

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948762 - 11/17/05 08:26 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

You can become aware of it and negate some of its effects.

In the movie, Neo learns to manipulate the matrix at first by learning that it has rules. Rules give definition and that gives points of attack - "some rules can be bent, others...broken".

Computer hacking offers the same draw. Any and every system can be broken, simply by being a system - with rules. No coincidence that the movie centers around hackers :wink:

and cyberpunk


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: signoffate]
    #4948901 - 11/17/05 08:50 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

signoffate said:
Am I the only one that doesn't understand what your trying to tell us?
What do you think Jesus meant by that Quote, "let the dead bury the dead"?




Well, here's what I think he meant. The family and friends and Peters whole social circle were asleep. They were completely run by the culture and were completely plugged in to believing the cultures view of reality. And they weren't goint to wake up. So really they were dead because they weren't living athuentic lives of their own. Just marching in step like sheep to the slaughter, generation after generation down the long march of history, where we keep telling ourselves the same tired stories, but we don't know that the last generation told themselves the same thing because our life span is short.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948924 - 11/17/05 08:54 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

You are right in one respect. I do think that you view detachment from the culture to be a positive thing, while I think that as a member of humanity one must retain some level (but not overmuch) of attachment to the culture. I see my actions as something that can modify the culture in positive way. In order to change something one must be able to identify with it on at least some level.

You misinterpret my sense of morality. I am not concerned with good and evil. I am concerned with what is practical. If one concerns the self with purely practical matters then so called "good and bad" take care of themselves. Very often you think that I am taking a stand for the side of truth and honor when in fact I am just stating what seems to be of practical value to me. I do also have a strong sense of aesthetics that play a role in my moral evaluations, and I find the Christian Bible to lack aesthetic appeal to me. I do not find it to be poetic or beautiful, but ugly and filled with hate. There is some wisdom to be found, but the ugliness and violence is much more prevalent. Here is an example of my thinking here:

"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4948955 - 11/17/05 09:01 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I dig. But I was just using Jesus to get peoples attention. I don't give a fuck about the bible. I wanted to talk about the matrix. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Icelander]
    #4948973 - 11/17/05 09:02 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, but if you put Jesus in there and he will hog the stage...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Jesus saw the Matrix. [Re: Lakefingers]
    #4949032 - 11/17/05 09:12 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

"The matrix is the self-reproducing gum in your hair. "

thats exactly what i was telling my sister last night!!!!

:eek:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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