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InvisiblednL
stranger thanstrange

Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 668
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: Ramlaen]
    #4925675 - 11/12/05 12:36 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

"officer i have to take the biggest shit of my life. if i'm not being detained am i free to go"


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Offlinel33tmouse
Stranger
Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 103
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: dnL]
    #4925769 - 11/12/05 01:17 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

When your breakin the law, don't break the law is what i always say!

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: shirley knott]
    #4925793 - 11/12/05 01:24 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shirley knott said:
but the cop's response to this (from his manual) is "i could see on the floor of the front seat cardboard torn in a manner that indicated creation of a 'roach' filter, commonly used to manufacture marijuana cigarettes. this, combined with the strong marijuana smell and the defendant's behaviour, gave me 'probable cause'. and look, here is what i found: ....." etc....




again, clean car, if there's nohting within his view there is no claim. violate
the 2 rules and you run the risk of arrest, if you havent eaten all the weed
you were a fool, sure theres a chance you can get away with it but thers as
great a chance that you wont


Quote:

if it's true that the law prohibits a proper search of a vehicle without a warrant, then great. personally i doubt you'd have a prayer up against a system that classes posession of marijuana as a jailable offense.




under the law, a car is an extension of your home, probable cause or a warrant is in fact needed to search, too many people relinquish that right, if a cop claims he smells marijuana he'd have no problem bringing in a K-9 at the drivers
request, cops like to fish so they'll stall you and ask all sorts of questions
they're hoping you screw up, they're watching your behavior at that point, look
them in the eyes and answer their questions and you're more likely to drive away

In the US our due process relies heavily on the cops to perform certain actions
in a reasonable time period, if they fail to have paper work filed by a specific
time, the defendant can be aquitted, if they change a few letter in a name it
can be dropped, the inability to articulate what led to the stop and eventualy
the search will have it thrown out, smart thing to do is not draw attention to
yourself so all of it can be avoided

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Offlinelid
Insert TitleHere

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 563
Loc: People's Republic of New ...
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #4925973 - 11/12/05 02:20 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Just out of curiosity, what would the case be if he said he smelled pot (granted you have never ever smoked in your car)and you had pot scented incense/candles in your car that had recently been lit. Having provided him information about the incense/candle and shown it to him, could this dismiss 'smell' as probable cause?


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molon labe.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: lid]
    #4926251 - 11/12/05 03:52 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

the smell alone is probable cause, if the smell is legitimate, incense or
airfresheners with the same smell would be thrown out since theres no physical
evidence, a benefit to that would be, if more people had them and no drugs, soon
smell would no longer be a factor in searches

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Offlinelid
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Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 563
Loc: People's Republic of New ...
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #4926306 - 11/12/05 04:18 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I'm a little confused about your wording P#1.

So what you are saying is, even if you didnt have anything illegal, the incense/candles could constitute probable cause to a search (having them wouldnt do anything?).


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molon labe.

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InvisibleRESTLESS
C.M.L.W.

Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 21,817
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: lid]
    #4926309 - 11/12/05 04:20 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Who burns incense or candles in their car?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: lid]
    #4926329 - 11/12/05 04:27 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lid said:
I'm a little confused about your wording P#1.

So what you are saying is, even if you didnt have anything illegal, the incense/candles could constitute probable cause to a search (having them wouldnt do anything?).





correct, simply because a very similar smell to marijuana is present a cop would
search your car, although if there is no found, I'm sure a k-9 would be brought
out and you'd suffer a shitload of inconvienience including being subject to
DWI/DUI charges until a blood test came back... if enough people did it and
everything came back clean, cops would stop taking that approach to gain search
permission

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Offlinelid
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Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 563
Loc: People's Republic of New ...
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #4926356 - 11/12/05 04:38 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

not many. I know one person who does, but he was nuts about 'Nag Champa'. Not to mention his cat hid a dead bird under the dash and car fresheners werent strong enough to mask the remaining smell. But if everyone started doing this, it would be pretty sweet if smell could no longer be used as probable cause.

I know they can do a breath test whenever they want to. But I didn't think they were able to take a blood test unless they could observe symtoms of illegal drug use.

Thanks for the clarification though!


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molon labe.

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #4926361 - 11/12/05 04:40 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

lid said:
I'm a little confused about your wording P#1.

So what you are saying is, even if you didnt have anything illegal, the incense/candles could constitute probable cause to a search (having them wouldnt do anything?).





correct, simply because a very similar smell to marijuana is present a cop would
search your car, although if there is no found, I'm sure a k-9 would be brought
out and you'd suffer a shitload of inconvienience including being subject to
DWI/DUI charges until a blood test came back... if enough people did it and
everything came back clean, cops would stop taking that approach to gain search
permission



the problem with blood tests for "drugged driving" offenses is that there is no way to really tell whether THC in the blood means that you were actually high when driving.....

basically anyone who tests positive for THC, even if they smoked weeks ago.... can get a DWI charge for it, according to norml.


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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Offlinelid
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Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 563
Loc: People's Republic of New ...
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: leery11]
    #4926395 - 11/12/05 04:52 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Well i think there is though. They could do tests right after smoking and for 3-5 hours afterwards, find out what the bloodlevel concentrations are during that period of time, and develop an average based on a large sample. Then they could compare your concentrations to the average to determine if you were under the infulence at that time.

I'm under the impression that blood doesn't show THC or its metabolites nearly as long as piss does. I'll try to find out where I found this information, and see if the source is credible.


--------------------
molon labe.

Edited by lid (11/12/05 04:53 PM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: leery11]
    #4926423 - 11/12/05 05:03 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
basically anyone who tests positive for THC, even if they smoked weeks ago.... can get a DWI charge for it, according to norml.





precicely why weed airfresheners and stuff can work against you, THC in your
blood can get you a posession charge as well, the court/cop doesnt care when you
smoked, they just want your money

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: lid]
    #4926432 - 11/12/05 05:05 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lid said:
Well i think there is though. They could do tests right after smoking and for 3-5 hours afterwards, find out what the bloodlevel concentrations are during that period of time




too costly and invasive fo the PD, they'll do one blood test and leave it at that,
plus they can pull it the same way they did for alcohol, tht would mean
heavy/regular smokers will always be screwed even if they have gone several days
without

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Offlinelid
Insert TitleHere

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 563
Loc: People's Republic of New ...
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #4926469 - 11/12/05 05:22 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Well I know that I'm just splitting hairs here. But what about the statute of limitations. I don't know what they are, but lets say they are hypothetically 24 hours for possession or use. If someone (or enough people) run with this, and win would there be the possibility of a test such as this being developed to keep law enforcement from looking sloppy and inefficient?


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molon labe.

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: RatherBeAlone13]
    #4926937 - 11/12/05 08:34 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3405

2. Never Consent
Many individuals arrested on marijuana charges could have avoided that arrest by exercising their Fourth Amendment rights. If a law enforcement officer asks for your permission to search, it is usually because: (1) there is not enough evidence to obtain a search warrant; or (2) the officer does not feel like going through the hassle of obtaining a warrant. Law enforcement officers are trained to intimidate people into consenting to searches. If you do consent, you waive your constitutional protection and the officers may search and seize items without further authorization. If officers find contraband, they will arrest you.

If you do not consent to a search, the officer must either release you or detain you and attempt to get a warrant. The fact that you refuse to consent does not give the officer grounds to obtain a warrant or further detain you.

An officer can obtain a search warrant only from a judge or magistrate and only upon a showing of "probable cause." Probable cause requires an officer to articulate information that would cause a reasonable person to believe that a crime has been or is being committed and that evidence of that involvement can be found within the object of the search.

There are exceptions to the search warrant requirement which permit an officer to search an area without a warrant or consent under certain circumstances. The important thing for you to remember is never to consent to a search or talk with an officer if you want to preserve your rights.

If an officer asks to search you or an area belonging to you or over which you are authorized to control, you should respond:

"I do not consent to a search of my [person, baggage, purse, luggage, vehicle, house, blood, etc.] I do not consent to this contact and do not want to answer any questions. If I am not under arrest, I would like to go now (or be left alone)."

3. Don't Answer Questions Without Your Attorney Present
Whether arrested or not, you should always exercise the right to remain silent. Anything you say to law enforcement officers, reporters, cell mates, or even your friends can be used as evidence against you. You have the right to have an attorney present during questioning. Your right to remain silent should always be exercised.

4. Determining if You Can Leave
You may terminate an encounter with officers unless you are being detained under police custody or have been arrested. If you cannot tell whether you may leave, you can ask officers, "Am I under arrest or otherwise detained?" If the answer is, "No," you may leave.

An officer can temporarily detain you without arresting you if he has "reasonable suspicion" that you are involved in criminal activity. An officer must be able at a later time to articulate to a judge objective facts that would have caused a reasonable person to suspect that you were involved in criminal activity at the point that you were detained. Also, the officer may perform a "pat down" or "frisk" on you during the detention if he has reasonable suspicion that you are armed. However, an officer may only reach into your pockets if he pats something that feels like a weapon.

When an officer attempts to contact or question you, you should politely say:

"I do not consent to this contact and I do not want to answer any questions. If I am not under arrest I would like to go now (or be left alone)."

If arrested, you should again refuse a search of any kind and refuse to answer any questions. At this point you should insist on speaking to an attorney as soon as possible.

5. Do Not Be Hostile; Do Not Physically Resist
There are times when individuals politely assert their rights and refuse to consent to a search but the officers nonetheless proceed to detain, search, or arrest them. In such cases, it is important not to physically resist. Rather, you should reassert your rights as outlined above in section 2.

6. Informing on Others
The police and prosecutors often try to pressure individuals into providing information that would lead to the arrest and conviction of others. Threats and promises by police and prosecutors should be viewed with caution and skepticism. Decisions should only be made after consulting with an experienced criminal defense attorney and examining one's own conscience.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: lid]
    #4927014 - 11/12/05 08:54 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lid said:
what about the statute of limitations.




there's no such thing in criminal law

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OfflineRatherBeAlone13
Stranger

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 184
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: Learyfan]
    #4927122 - 11/12/05 09:20 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
They DO need probable cause, a warrant, or permission.



Hey ratherbealone, why were you pulled over? How long before being pulled over had you smoked in your car?









I got pulled over for failure to get my car inspected. I smoked tha night before.


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Offlinelid
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Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 563
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Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #4927144 - 11/12/05 09:24 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Well I just found out that the statute of limitations is about 3 years for all other crimes, so it really has no basis on this argument. Some places do not even have a statute of limitations regarding drug use (pretty retarded, considering you have 9 years for a sexual offense, if there is no physical evidence IE: DNA).

I think people should stand up against things such as driving under the influence for a drug you did weeks ago, which is ludicrous seeing as you cant be convicted for a DWI if they found traces of alcohol in your systems from several days ago.


--------------------
molon labe.

Edited by lid (11/12/05 09:31 PM)

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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
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Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: lid]
    #4927155 - 11/12/05 09:27 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah.. whoever made these stupid ass laws. I don't care.
Someone needs to change them.


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InvisibleSkunk420
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Re: Police searched my car today... [Re: RatherBeAlone13]
    #4927183 - 11/12/05 09:36 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Dont drive with weed on you, use some other mode of transportation, I have been pulled over back in 2000, I had a weed pipe hidden in my underwear, in a special inside pocket, I got pulled over for speeding.
They gave me the whole sobriey test, they must have seen me stash something under the seat, of course I let them search the car, i knew they weren't gonna find anything.
I had the one pipe on me, i was on my way to go pick up a bag in fact..
I just got through smoking some resin in my pipe barely earlier.
I think they suspected I was suspecting i was high, but i passed all the field sobreity tests, including standing on one foot and walking a straight line.
I think they thought I hid something down my pants, little did they know i had it inside a hidden pocket in my underwear.
I was at a park years earlier and I got searched for weed, it was right after I got off of probation for weed, so they automaticially was thinking i was smoking, i had a small bag of weed and a small pipe down my underwear. I just got though smoking only a cigarette, I had my weed stashed from earlier.
But I have been lucky I never have been busted for DUI for weed before a few times. I will never smoke in a car anymore, I will find a place to smoke first, hide the weed or only bring enough to smoke on a mountain trail. smoke a joint and after that have none on me.. then be careful driving.
But I am more paranoid to do that now, If I get pulled over driving anytime if i had a car, I bet they would ask me if i was smoking or using everytime i drove. I have been busted for weed twice, had a dui, almost 2 duis form one other time driving from a canyon, good thing a park ranger lady pulled me over, she let me call for someone to pick me up, i was twice the legal limit..drunk as fuck, and high on meth,,
That would have been my second dui, lucky it was a park ranger lady..and not a regular cop..
that was back in late 2000..
I think I will not even have drugs in a car or using drugs right before i drive anymore. I will pick up drugs in some other vehicle, or get it delivered to my house or a safe place to meet to pick it up.
Wow, I have to be careful as fuck myself, I am still on probation for second time weed possession, attemped sale of alcohol to a minor..

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