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micololo2
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Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Boletus edulis (King Boletes)
#4922223 - 11/11/05 01:26 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I cloned from 2 mushrooms, 2 mycelias. It took 7 days to cover the petri dishes. After I transfered 2 pieces of both new mycelias in new petri dishes and it took only 4 days to cover them again. Does someone know exactly why at the second transfers of the mycelias, it cover the petri dishes faster then when I started from the mushrooms? Does someone know, after grains, which substrat of transfer I can use for inoculation on radicles of the white spruces?
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shirley knott
not my real name

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: micololo2]
#4922651 - 11/11/05 03:09 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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you would do well to also post this in the advanced forum
-------------------- buh
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micololo2
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Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: shirley knott]
#4923505 - 11/11/05 07:04 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just went there and it looks more magic mushrooms growers than something else
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 7 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: micololo2]
#4923636 - 11/11/05 07:53 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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The mycellium knows how to colonize the medium if you used the same kind of agar on the second dish. It's also been back in the vegetative growing mode for a while.
I don't know what would be best to use on the radicles, the mycellium will grow on a lot of stuff though: Potting soil, soil, coffee grounds, tea, compost...
If I was going to do it I'd use sterilized soil and old white spruce needles.
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micololo2
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Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: falcon]
#4923950 - 11/11/05 08:54 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Falcon, It is something logical to try. What do you think about, taking top soil where the mushrooms grow, sterilize it, and then make the grain transfer. The only thing is, in the transfer substrat will be some grain and could attrack some little animals damaging the inoculation site on the radicles. I'll try to transfer the mycelia from the petri dish right away in the trying substrat. Maybe liquid transfer to? Another thing is trying bolete to colonise hardwood sawdust. This is not logical but black morels mycelia grow well on sawdust and it is not logical. I'll take the PH of the top soil and adjust the trying transfer substrats to this PH. If you have others ideas will be welcome.
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: micololo2]
#4924448 - 11/11/05 11:04 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Using soil sounds like a good idea.
The grain will probably attract rodents.
Boletus edulis will grow on sawdust. I don't know how well it will work as an innoculant. I used some B. edulis sawdust to inoculate some 3 year old Black Spruce this spring.
The B. Edulis was found under was some kind of Hemlock. The kind Hemlock is not a native species. I thought it was some kind of spruce tree, because the needles were growing pretty much all the way around the stem. Really dumb mistake.
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micololo2
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Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: falcon]
#4925691 - 11/12/05 12:44 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I didn't find on the market king bolete in vitro culture. Nothing to compare with my mycelia. So less on how to cultivate this species. It will be new experiences for me in the next months. Hope I'll find a way... because I got 72 000, 19 years old white spruces on my lands.
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falcon


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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: micololo2]
#4926319 - 11/12/05 04:23 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Penn State's culture list has two different cultures. You are probably better off with the clone that you did yourself.
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mushrx1
rainy season

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 80
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: micololo2]
#4930924 - 11/13/05 11:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Micololo, that's really good news!
I heard that Boletus was very very slow in culture, but I've never tried to clone it. I have seen Hyphomyces (the parasite) grow fast on agar though. I'm very interested and I hope you are able to fruit it. If you feel it would be better if more people tried to fruit Boletus, I"ll definately give it a try (and I'll trade you whatever you might like that I have growing)
good luck!!
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micololo2
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Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: mushrx1]
#4931461 - 11/14/05 06:48 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thank's for your interests and your offer mushrx1, But I have bad news. My culture is infected. I would like to compare my mycelia with a healthy one but who got this picture? The mycelia grow first like the black morel. Thin and fast. After 7 days mycelia get ticker specialy on the bottom walls of the petri dish. At half inch. from the bottom walls white pins form. I now can see little of mold forming on the side wall of the dish. I have'nt seen this before. I'll try an ultimate transfer taking a white part of the mycelia without pins on agar with peroxyde.
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: micololo2]
#4933863 - 11/14/05 06:54 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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B edulis on agar and birdseed.
These pictures don't show it that well.
The mycellium of B edulis looks very similar to Agaricus bisporus, cottony appressed growth that darkens to tan with age.
It will form primordia on agar. Clamp connections aren't present.
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micololo2
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Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: falcon]
#4936404 - 11/15/05 09:16 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I still have 7 slants of them left. After hours of research on the web, I have ruffly found this. King Bolete have different mycelium characters depend where it comes on earth. Some are slow groing and some are fast. Some have hability to fruit on agar and others not. I did'nt find photos to compare but anough descriptions to know now that my mycelium is a fast growing and have hability to fruit on agar. Mycelia can be transported by insects to start a new colonie!! They are studying methods to grow that mushroom in New Zeeland where I found good informations. I found that to the way you managage the shade in the forest influence the yield of cropping. It's maybe because it needs a lot of trees and lands the reasons why there is so less cultivations of this mushroom in the world? I still motivided to try to grow this mushroom on my lands. I now would like to make a jelly or oil media for an easy fix on radicles of the trees. Do you think it's a good idea? For all the mushrooms I have tried to grow, the black morel is the only one I never have succeed (outside tries).
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: micololo2]
#4938693 - 11/15/05 07:11 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Competition from other mycorrhyzal species may be one reason why there are not more people growing B. edulis.
I only find King bolete when the humidity is pretty high. The trees may help to keep the humidity high.
Oil sounds like a great idea. Anything that helps it stick to the radicles. A liquid culture with some oil mixed in and and emulsifier to hold the water and oil together might also work . Oil or jelly would spread on the rootlets much better. Soap if it did not damage the mycellium might be good.
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micololo2
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Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: falcon]
#4939376 - 11/15/05 09:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'll start a culture from a new slant, 6 left. I have stop my choices on vegetable shortning and vegetable oil for my first experiences of making a transfer media for B.edulis. I'll try to use spruces needles to lower the PH. Liquid and agar innoculations will be tried on these substrats. Do you have an idea what I could use to lower the PH? How is going to be the shortning after being sterilized? All questions and experiences make me loving growing mushrooms.
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: micololo2]
#4940489 - 11/16/05 06:17 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't think it will grow on only oil. Or maybe it will grow very little on just oil. Oil would be good to add after the substrates colonized or mixed with something else. Oil by itself will act as an oxygen barrier. Oil is mostly carbon and hydrogen so there would not be enough nutrition by itself.
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micololo2
Stranger

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: falcon]
#4941691 - 11/16/05 01:31 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Because there is an infection in the petri dish and I'm not use to deal with this one, I'll wait to see how healthy is going to be the mycelium in the slants in several weeks before working on it. In the futur I will take the peroxide agar method for cloning a mushroom. If you still interested to know what's going to happened with this culture please let me know.
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: micololo2]
#4942764 - 11/16/05 05:55 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes I would like to hear how it goes.
-------------------- Keep growing.
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micololo2
Stranger

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: falcon]
#4944293 - 11/16/05 10:31 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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So later + I'll come back. Thanks for your interst.
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micololo2
Stranger

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: micololo2]
#4952349 - 11/18/05 03:46 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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It looks like the plates were infected by the Chaetomium. Rare on plates and probably came from the mushroom. It still white in the slants but my chances to get a good culture are slim.
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micololo2
Stranger

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Boletus edulis (King Boletes) [Re: micololo2]
#5138149 - 01/04/06 10:43 AM (18 years, 28 days ago) |
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A good document on Boletus Edulis for who is interested to try to grow them and understand how they grow.
Origine et Qualit? L'exp?rimentation : R?sultats et perspectives
Depuis plusieurs ann?es, la chambre d'Agriculture de la Dordogne m?ne des essais et des observations sur la pousse des c?pes, en collaboration avec l'INRA de Bordeaux et le lyc?e de Vic-en-Bigorre.
En 1995, un r?seau r?gional d'exp?rimentation est mis en place avec deux axes de travail. Biologie Temp?rature Fructification Economie Perspectives
COMPRENDRE LA BIOLOGIE DU C?PE
Quatorze boleti?res r?parties dans les cinq d?partements d'Aquitaine sont ?quip?es d'une station agrom?t?o automatique (r?seau DEMETER).
Trois sont en Dordogne, sur des ?cosyst?mes diff?rents :
ch?nes p?doncul?s
ch?nes rouges
verger de ch?taigniers marigoule.
Les r?sultats cumul?s de plusieurs ann?es d'observations sur une m?me parcelle permettent de formuler des hypoth?ses de plus en plus pr?cises sur l'incidence des param?tres climatiques ? tous les stades du d?veloppement du champignon.
Temp?rature et croissance myc?lienne
Il faut une temp?rature suffisante...
La quantit? de champignons r?colt?s d?pend ?troitement de la quantit? de myc?lium qui s'est pr?alablement d?velopp? dans le sol. En laboratoire, la temp?rature optimale de croissance du myc?lium est comprise entre 20 et 25 ?C. Sur le terrain, les mesures de temp?rature sol r?alis?es entre 5 et 10 cm de profondeur ont permis de calculer des sommes d'heures "chaudes" sup?rieures ? 20 ?C.
Ex: sur quatre pousses comparables, on observe 700 ? 1 000 h o? la temp?rature du sol est sup?rieure ? 20 ?C. Selon les ann?es, selon l'exposition du bois et l'ouverture du peuplement, ces conditions sont plus ou moins atteintes : on ne s'?tonnera pas des diff?rences de rendements d'un bois ? l'autre ou d'une ann?e ? l'autre.
La r?colte de l'ann?e se construit souvent ? partir du myc?lium de l'ann?e pr?c?dente...
L'analyse des r?coltes de Villefranche-du-P?rigord (quantit?s vendues sur le march? en relation avec les donn?es m?t?o de la station de Loub?jac) ou encore chez M. et Mme Chignat laisse supposer que les pousses estivales de c?pes (ao?t-d?but septembre) se d?veloppent principalement ? partir d'un myc?lium de l'ann?e pr?c?dente. En effet, la somme de temp?ratures d'apr?s r?colte est souvent sup?rieure ? la somme de temp?ratures d'avant r?colte.
La fructification
Elle comprend deux phases:
Le d?clenchement de la pousse.
Les observations faites en Dordogne, puis dans de nombreux autres d?partements montrent clairement qu'une pousse de c?pes est toujours d?clench?e par un apport d'eau sur le sol. Cet apport se traduit par une variation de 40 calibars mesur?e sur un tensiom?tre. Cela correspond, en g?n?ral, ? une pluie minimum de 15 mm.
Dans le cas du c?pe d'automne (ou c?pe de Bordeaux (Boletus edulis Bull.), un refroidissement marqu? de la temp?rature est n?cessaire.
D?veloppement des champignons
Le d?lai entre le d?clenchement de la pousse et l'apparition des champignons est de 10 jours environ pour une temp?rature moyenne de 20 ?C (atmosph?re) et jusqu'? 20 jours pour une temp?rature moyenne de 13 ?C. Pendant cette p?riode, la temp?rature de l'air est comprise entre 10 ?C et 25 ?C. Elle peut descendre un peu plus bas pendant quelques heures sans pour autant emp?cher la pousse. Par contre, d?passer 27-28 ?C semble pr?judiciable.
Les conditions d'humidit? sont aussi d?terminantes : le myc?lium qui alimente les futurs champignons en croissance doit trouver de l'eau et de l'oxyg?ne (dans la liti?re et dans les premiers centim?tres du sol). Les valeurs tensiom?triques (mesure de l'humidit? dans le sol) optimales se situent entre 10 et 30 cm. On remarque une diff?rence selon les esp?ces. Le c?pe de Bordeaux (Boletus edulis Bull.) supporte des conditions plus humides que la t?te de n?gre (Boletus aereus Bull.) ou que le c?pe d'?t? (Boletus aestivalis).
L'?tude de ces deux facteurs, humidit? et temp?rature, a permis d'expliquer l'?chec de certaines pousses a priori prometteuses.
LES ?COSYST?MES "C?PES" FAVORABLES
Parall?lement au travail d'observation, une enqu?te de terrain a donn? une somme d'informations ? partir :
de l'exp?rience et des observations des propri?taires, des techniciens forestiers,
de boleti?res ayant des productions importantes et r?guli?res.
Elle permet de dresser un inventaire non limit? des facteurs favorables.
Ouverture du milieu et climat
La densit? du peuplement et sa plus ou moins grande "ouverture" d?terminent l'impact des facteurs climatiques : r?chauffement plus rapide du sol et meilleure p?n?tration des pluies. Cela illustre une phrase devenue courante chez les cueilleurs de champignons "on trouve les c?pes en bordure ou dans les clairi?res ".A l'inverse, un bois trop ouvert peut g?ner la fructification en p?riode de fortes chaleurs.
Le sol
Le syst?me racinaire est d'autant plus mycorhiz? que le sol est pauvre (acide, pauvre en phosphore, potassium...). Un sol a?r? o? r?gne une bonne activit? biologique est un bon indicateur : la liti?re de feuilles ou d'aiguilles d?grad?e alimente le myc?lium.
Gare au tassement !
La composition du peuplement
De nombreuses essences sont associ?es au c?pe : le ch?ne p?doncul?, le ch?ne d'Am?rique, le ch?ne rouvre, le h?tre, le ch?taignier, le charme, le bouleau.., chez les feuillus. L'?pic?a, le sapin de Vancouver, le pin sylvestre... chez les r?sineux. Le m?lange des essences, une essence dominante avec une essence de sous-?tage para?t ?tre tr?s favorable.
LES PERSPECTIVES
La prochaine ?tape, en dehors des travaux d'observation qui se poursuivent, est de tester des techniques sur :
l'am?lioration des boleti?res existantes : nettoyage, ?claircie, d?tourage,
des nouveaux peuplements (pr?c?dent favorable) : essences, densit?, v?g?tation associee.
Dans cet objectif :
Une action c?pe (am?nagement de boleti?re) est propos?e dans le projet CTE collectif for?t. Deux journ?es au mois d'octobre 2001 seront organis?es avec les techniciens forestiers F. Dercq et Patrick Rey. Par la visite de diff?rents peuplements, il s'agira de voir comment gestion sylvicole et production de c?pes sont compatibles.
Nathalie Seegers, Chambre d'Agriculture de la Dordogne pour en savoir plus vous trouverez un dossier au pages 16-17 du P?rigord Hebdo du 24/08/2001 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by micololo2 (01/04/06 10:45 AM)
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