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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: IsaacHunt]
    #4905546 - 11/07/05 08:03 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

IsaacHunt said:
No, the US Congress listed a whole whap of other reasons as well. See lonestar's post.


But you do grasp that the only LEGAL reason was that the non-existent WMD posed a threat? That's why Bush and Blair were so keen to sell this fantasy to the UN.




Well this is actually an ignorant lie. The biggest LEGAL reason was that he was in violation of several UN resolutions. That is if you consider the UN to have any weight.
Quote:


But in every one of Bush's speeches to the American people on the subject, the plight of the Iraqi people was brought up




And this is of no consequence? So he's a nice guy who cares about people even if they're not Americans. They want us out? OK Fair enough. Are they sorry we cut the bitch out? Homey don't think so

Quote:



But the only LEGAL reason that had a prayer of getting through the UN was WMD. The UN describes launching wars of aggression as the supreme crime against humanity. It HAD to be self-defence from WMD. Certainly without the WMD fantasy Blair could not have gone to war which would have put Bush in a completely different position.




No. You are ignorant and mistaken.
Quote:



How do you know the Pentagon has no contingency plan for, say, the invasion of North Korea




I should hope they do
Quote:



I don't know about North Korea but it certainly appears to have no contingency plan for deposing the savage dictators of Saudi Arabia or Uzbekistan because it is supporting them both.




It will be a cold day in hell (I hope) when idiots are privy to our security planning. Oh, fuck, it is a little chilly, Kerry is on the Senate intelligence commitee. John Kerry, bringing intelligence down one IQ point at a time. Every month.
Quote:



You will note that my description of the UN's approach to murderous tyrants --

YOUR description of the UN. That doesn't make it accurate. Indeed it would perhaps be more accurate as a description of Bush's support for Saudi.

As a side note, did you ever get around to providing us with your own definition of terrorism?

I don't know but I can't remember you defining why you considered Blair stating something in an interview is different from him stating it in a speech.




Whatever. Stay on topic.


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OfflineGuerrilla0726
Bringer ofChange
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4906084 - 11/07/05 09:42 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Ok well there was some estimate by some university a few months ago that said its likely that 100,000 killed. 100,000 is practically a genocide, and dont' forget to throw in all those killed from the sanctions. ANd if you want to go further, count the bodies killed by the weapons that we gave Saddaam. And if you want to go further.... eh thats enough.

I bet you if 10,000 got killed in USA it would get called a genocide.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=6565%20


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Guerrilla0726]
    #4906096 - 11/07/05 09:45 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

If you had any idea of the definition of genocide, you would realize that genocide has to be the intentional killing of people.

It doesn't matter how many people die, if it's not intentional wiping out of an entire group, it's not genocide. It's actually a legal definition. Something isn't "pretty much" a genocide. It either is or isn't.


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OfflineYatchak
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4906279 - 11/07/05 10:20 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Exelent post!
I found lots more info on the subject just by writing this guys name.


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OfflineGuerrilla0726
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Yatchak]
    #4917544 - 11/10/05 01:07 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.


Eh, fine I"ll give it to you..... since the intent isn't to kill the people then its not a genocide. So from now on you can have thousands of people die as long as its indirect intent.

It doesn't have to be the wipeout of an entire group. If there are 30 million jews in the world and only 6 million get killed, then thats not a total wipeout.

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/gendef.htm


Edited by Guerrilla0726 (11/10/05 01:08 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Guerrilla0726]
    #4917740 - 11/10/05 01:54 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

I know it doesn't have to kill everyone to be genocide. That doesn't change the fact that what happened wasn't a genocide.

It was an atrocity against human life and a horrible event, but not a genocide.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4918182 - 11/10/05 03:41 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

genocide, massacre, killings, casualies...

why all the games with semantics here? jesus, its like a wannabe congress in this thread.

is there a mod election coming up or something?


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: kotik]
    #4918203 - 11/10/05 03:45 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

No, it is a matter of international law. If genocide occurs and is recognized, it is the responsibility of the international community to do something to stop it.

It's not something I made up. It was created by a holocause survivor a long time ago.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4918211 - 11/10/05 03:46 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Plus, if every emotional person uses genocide or evokes the Holocaust every time civilians die, it takes away from the atrocities in the past.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4918258 - 11/10/05 04:02 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

so then the preservation of the meaning of the word is first and foremost...


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: kotik]
    #4918287 - 11/10/05 04:10 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

so then the preservation of the meaning of the word is first and foremost...




Accuracy is first and foremost.

Words have meaning. "Genocide" has a very specific meaning. It is not a synonym to "slaughter" or "massacre".

This is something the Left has refined into an art form -- the over-inflation of a word to the point of meaningless. Calling anyone with whom you disagree a "fascist" or a "nazi" is another example. Or referring to people who are paid low (in the estimation of the Leftie) wages a "wage-slave".






Phred


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Phred]
    #4918295 - 11/10/05 04:12 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Little Eichmman... :smirk:

I think that one is the worst, for some reason.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4918573 - 11/10/05 05:33 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

it seems all the lefties ever cry about is the welfare of people.

it seems all the righties cry about is how the lefties cry about the people.

what am i missing from this equation? the fact that bith right and left share no interests with the common man makes me laugh everytime someone takes sides.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: kotik]
    #4918595 - 11/10/05 05:41 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

What you are missing is that the debate is really about how to best obtain those rights. The lefties argue that it is through government grant. The righties argue that it is through relative independence from government. In actual fact, it is the righties who fight against government hegemony and not the lefties. The lefties wish for more of it.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4918649 - 11/10/05 05:53 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Amen.


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OfflineGuerrilla0726
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4918743 - 11/10/05 06:22 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

you fellows make better arguments than I thought.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Guerrilla0726]
    #4918765 - 11/10/05 06:28 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

That's what we're here for. :wink:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4918776 - 11/10/05 06:35 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

The PA&L forum at Shroomery is a fairly rigorous crucible.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4918781 - 11/10/05 06:38 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

At the very least, it's moving towards being one.


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