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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,681
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****** NO ON ALL 4 ******* Didnt pass after all... Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    #4909017 - 11/08/05 12:28 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I Did...


Just this morning I drove 45 minutes so that I could shove my NO votes down the throat of Arnold Shwartzkoffnigger.

It feels good to be part of the solution..


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GabbaDj

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Edited by GabbaDj (11/09/05 03:10 PM)

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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Did You Vote? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #4909039 - 11/08/05 12:35 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

good work.

though, there were a couple that should have been yes'd.

the teacher tenure one...possibly the redistricting one,
but the rest were jokes.

I'm driving out tonite to vote.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Posts: 19,681
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Re: Did You Vote? [Re: afoaf]
    #4909094 - 11/08/05 12:54 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Teacher Tenure one was just a front for the real purpouse of the bill..

It gave principals the right to fire teatchers for LOTS of reasons.. Tenure would have been suspended for even those teachers serving 20 years in the schools..

Its only purpouse is to allow teachers to be axed under budget cuts at the will of the governor and it has little to do with getting good people into the classroom.


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GabbaDj

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Loc: By The Lake
Re: Did You Vote? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #4909115 - 11/08/05 12:58 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Cutting employee hours, cutting labor, reduceing staff, minimumizing employee benefits and stopping their elected unions from fighting back..

Thats what this whole election is all about..

If thats not big business pulling the strings I dont know what else it could be..

How could anyone believe that hurting Californias working class could be a good thing for California at all? If these things pass then big business will be free to cut wages, redefine overtime (as was tried the last election), destroy retirement benefits and effectively shut out all business responsibility to provide medical insurance for its workers....

Its all a crock of shit.


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GabbaDj

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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Did You Vote? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #4909131 - 11/08/05 01:03 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

the california school system is a mess.

teachers SHOULD be able to be fired from their jobs
for any number of reasons...just like the rest of
us workers.

the very problem is that you can't get the shitty
teachers out now....they just shuttle them between
schools.

I don't know why union workers think that they deserve
job protections that the rest of us don't enjoy.

what exactly is it about you and your position that
gives you the right to enjoy unatural job protection
and to be paid higher wages than the market would
otherwise have to bear?

balancing the budget requires that you trim the fat.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: Did You Vote? [Re: afoaf]
    #4909164 - 11/08/05 01:09 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

balancing the budget requires that you trim the fat.




Your dumb if you cant see that this will hurt many more great teatchers than it will weed out bad ones. What we need are bills that provide guaranteed funding for the schools, like the one we voted in last election.. This one reverses that and takes money away from the schools which will force them to cut staff.

Theyve already cut sports, music, art, drama even books and supplys out of the classrooms.. Maybe we should just let the kids sit on the floor in empty rooms watching barney cartoons all day...


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GabbaDj

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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Did You Vote? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #4909274 - 11/08/05 01:35 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

administrators don't cut good teachers when they
chronically complain about the lack of qualified
workers.

administrators cut the bad ones.

it's in their best interests.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 1,607
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Did You Vote? [Re: afoaf]
    #4909296 - 11/08/05 01:38 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
I don't know why union workers think that they deserve
job protections that the rest of us don't enjoy.




union protection act i think its called right? its about making it harder for them to raise money for political campaigns to further disable them against businesses by asking for formal consent from all persons before their they can use their dues for a contribution. People could not vote in their interests as workers and instead decide they need to vote for who hates terrorists the most, for one thing. Its something like that, right? and unions think everyone should have protections, you need to get a union at your workplace, not tell them they dont deserve the protections that you dont have bc youre not organized.

this isnt about job protections at union workplaces. way to show you know what youre talking about. did you vote on that issue?

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Offlinenonick
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Registered: 09/14/05
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Re: Did You Vote? [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4909418 - 11/08/05 02:09 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

i see how it is...

my "did you vote" thread isn't good enough, so you had to make your own. 

i see how appreciated i am around here :frown:

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Offlinewilshire
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Did You Vote? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #4909433 - 11/08/05 02:13 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

the republican running for district attorney in my county is a christian loon. he attended bob jones university, if you have an idea what that means. his career in the county so far has been spent working with police drug task forces and handling drug prosecutions almost exclusively as deputy DA. he's gone on record saying that drugs are his number one priority and that his christian faith will guide his decisions as DA if elected. he'll probably get elected too. he's endorsed by all the police organizations around here.

as if this county wasn't already bad enough...

(of course i'm going to get to the polls)


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Did You Vote? [Re: wilshire]
    #4909477 - 11/08/05 02:32 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Can you still vote after your conviction?

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Offlinewilshire
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Registered: 05/11/05
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Re: Did You Vote? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4909492 - 11/08/05 02:39 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, only because i was already registered. if i wasn't, i'd have to wait 5 years or something. there are some states that don't let felons EVER vote, and then there are some that let them vote from prison if they're still in. mine's somewhere in the middle i guess.


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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,681
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Re: Did You Vote? [Re: wilshire]
    #4911896 - 11/08/05 11:03 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I cant fucking believe it...

Prop results as of 9:45

73 YES. Ummm OK
74 NO... Score 1
75 YES... WHAT THE FUCK? ALL of socal districts passed this one.
76,77,78,79,80 all failed...

Its like people just dont know what the unions have done for everyone..

Myself Im not pro union but at the same time they are needed much more for their contribution to non union workers.. They are the single most important loby group for minimum wage increases and workers compensation security... FOR EVERYONE. Not just union members..


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GabbaDj

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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Did You Vote? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #4911993 - 11/08/05 11:39 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

and minimum wage laws and mandatory employee benefits
hurt us all!

thank you very much, unions!

please read an economics book.

for those things among many others, I detest the present
incarnation of unions.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Did You Vote? [Re: afoaf]
    #4912026 - 11/08/05 11:47 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
and minimum wage laws and mandatory employee benefits
hurt us all!

thank you very much, unions!

please read an economics book.

for those things among many others, I detest the present
incarnation of unions.


Couldn't have said it better my self. :thumbup:

If a company is not allowed to monopolize goods, why should a union be able to monopolize labor?

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 1,607
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Did You Vote? [Re: DieCommie]
    #4912503 - 11/09/05 06:37 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

minimum wage and benefits dont hurt local businesses or economies, just corporations. im involved in a minimum wage campaign and i actually know what the fuck im talking about.

maybe you huys didnt read my post about how it has nothing to do with protecting unions?


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"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."

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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Did You Vote? [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4912505 - 11/09/05 06:39 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kilgore_trout said:
minimum wage and benefits dont hurt local businesses or economies, just corporations. im involved in a minimum wage campaign and i actually know what the fuck im talking about.

maybe you huys didnt read my post about how it has nothing to do with protecting unions?



So wrong..

Wal-Mart Warms to the State
by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.

H. Lee Scott, Jr., the CEO of Wal-Mart, surprised many by calling for an increase in the minimum wage. And what accolades were heaped on him! The company was even cast in a new role, from the exploiter of workers to the responsible advocate of pro-worker policies.

And how selfless, for who has to pay such higher wages but companies like Wal-Mart? And thus do we see a corporation set aside its business interests on behalf of the long-term interests of society.

The whole thing befuddled Wal-Mart haters as much as it disgusted its free-market defenders.

Ted Kennedy wouldn't go so far as to praise the company, but he did say that "If the CEO of Walmart can call for an increase in the minimum wage, the Republicans should follow suit on behalf of the millions of working men and women living in poverty."

Other lefties just wouldn't believe it. The spokesman for Wal-Mart Watch said that Scott's call for a higher wage floor was "disingenuous and laughable."

And yet, let us think this through. Might there be another reason Wal-Mart would advocate a higher minimum wage?

Before looking at the evidence, let's do some a priori theorizing based on the history of US corporate regulation. Historians such as Robert Higgs, Butler Shaffer, Dominick Armentano, and Gabriel Kolko have chronicled how the rise of business regulation, including intervention in market wages, was pushed by large companies for one main reason: to impose higher costs on smaller competitors.

This is how child labor legislation, mandated pensions, labor union impositions, health and safety regulations, and the entire panoply of business regimentation came about. It was pushed by big businesses that had already absorbed the costs of these practices into their profit margins so as to burden smaller businesses that did not have these practices. Regulation is thus a violent method of competition.

Think of it this way. Let's say you run a retail coffee shop that sells only "fair trade" coffee, which is expensive to acquire, but for which consumers are willing to pay a high price. All is going swimmingly until a competitor shows up and sells unfair coffee that tastes just as good for half the price.

Let's say consumers begin to change their minds about the merit of your "fair trade" coffee and your profits fall. You must make a change to survive. You can compete by offering a wider range of choice. Or you can lobby the local government in the name of "social responsibility" (oh, such high ideals!) to require that all coffee sold in your town be "fair trade."

Who does that benefit? Your company. Who does it hurt? Their company.

Moving from theory to reality, we find that this is precisely what Wal-Mart is up to. The hint comes from the news stories: "Wal-Mart maintains that it pays above the current $5.15 an hour minimum wage to its employees."

Now, most readers might just look at this as a case of leading by example. Would that everyone were as fair as the wonderful Wal-Mart! But a second look suggests another interpretation, namely that it wants to slam its smaller competition, which will be seriously harmed by having to pay more for labor.

The current minimum is $5.15. According to studies, Wal-Mart pays between $8.23 and $9.68 as its national average. That means that the minimum wage could be raised 50% and still not impose higher costs on the company.

Wal-Mart itself makes even more elaborate claims on Walmartfacts.com: "The national average for regular hourly Walmart wages is nearly twice the federal minimum wage, and higher in urban areas." If true, the national minimum could be raised by 100% and leave the company unaffected.

So who would it affect if not Wal-Mart? All of its main competitors. And the truth is that there are millions of businesses that compete with it every day. Many local stores have attempted to copy Wal-Mart's price-competitive model, but face lower costs and can actually thrive.

There are many ways to compete with Wal-Mart. Not all shoppers like sprawling stores. Others like better service with more experts on the floor. Others just hate crowds. But a main way to compete is to hire lower-priced labor. This could mean that your employees are from a "lower" rung on the social ladder, but they too need opportunities. The savings can be reflected in other amenities that Wal-Mart does not offer. There can be non-standardized products otherwise not available. The location might be better. Even prices for goods can be lower.

Even similar stores such as K-Mart can pay lower wages, and that can make the margin of difference. K-Mart pays over a much wider range, as low as $6.75 an hour. A major competitor is mainstream grocery stores, where workers do indeed start at minimum wage. Target too pays starting employees less than Wal-Mart, if the Target Union can be believed.

Now, if Wal-Mart can successfully lobby the government to abolish lower-wage firms, it has taken a huge step toward running out its competition. The effect of requiring other firms to pay wages just as high as theirs is the same as if the company lobbied to force other companies to purchase only in high quantities, to open large stores only, or to stay open 24 hours. By making others do what Wal-Mart does, the company manages to put the squeeze on anyone who would dare vie for its customer base.

Now here is the great irony. The left has long been in a total frenzy about how Wal-Mart saunters into small towns and outcompetes long-established local retailers. Wal-Mart's opponents have whipped themselves into a frenzy about the company's success, claiming that it always comes at a huge social cost.

Now, most of this rhetoric is overblown and ignorant. Wal-Mart would not have made any profits or grown as it has without having convinced the consuming public to purchase from the store. Consumers could put the company out of business tomorrow, just by failing to show up to buy.

The left's claims of unfair practices would be valid if Wal-Mart did indeed work to impose legal disabilities on its competitors ? in effect making it illegal to outcompete the company. And yet that is precisely what raising the minimum wage would do: impose a legal disability on those companies engaged in lower-wage competition with Wal-Mart. So the economically ignorant left advocates raising the minimum wage.
Lew's collected speeches: $25

Thus has our CEO friend Mr. Scott discovered a viciously devious tactic. He sees a way to drive out the competition by doing precisely what Wal-Mart's biggest critics are advocating! And what will be the result? Wal-Mart's share of the market will go up, and its degree of cartelization over the mass consumer market will increase, not by market means but through government intervention. Then we can expect the left to once again fly into another hysteria about the size and growth of the company ? totally oblivious to how they worked to bring it about.

Free-market advocates who have long defended Wal-Mart can only be disgusted at this shift in the company's methods from competing on market grounds to calling for the state to crush its competition. Even more disgusting is how the company can count on the economic ignorance of its critics to help do it.

The minimum wage should not be raised but abolished. If free competition and a non-monopolized market are what you favor, you too should favor abolishing the minimum wage. In a purely free market, Wal-Mart would discover that there are indeed limits to growth, and that others are willing and able to learn from its successes.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 1,607
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Did You Vote? [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4912510 - 11/09/05 06:41 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

oh, i just realized, "union protection" passed right? doublespeak bullshit.


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"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Registered: 10/17/03
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Re: Did You Vote? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #4912514 - 11/09/05 06:44 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

that post is so far from reality its scary.


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"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Registered: 10/17/03
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Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Did You Vote? [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4912519 - 11/09/05 06:46 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

that union protection thing is prob like the anti-affirmative action iniative that passed but exit polls showed the vast majority of voters supported affirmative action. they just used doublespeak.


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"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."

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