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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: LSDempire]
    #4331508 - 06/24/05 07:16 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

They are a menace to society and should be wiped out.


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: LSDempire]
    #4331512 - 06/24/05 07:21 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)



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InvisibleAsante
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: LSDempire]
    #4331524 - 06/24/05 07:33 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

LSDempire, please read up on the short history of this subforum as it spun off of a request by Ravus. This subforum is for an important part intended to hone our discussion skills where it comes to dealing with pro-WarOnDrugs people. Because we have a shortage of anti-drug people on the Shroomery people like Ravus and I simulate to be anti drug people. I myself use alot of tongue-in-cheek stuff but I also use points that are used by many anti-druggers. If you can outclass this "60 year old conservative ex-Army grunt" that I play by the quality of your debate then you scored. Yes. the persona I play in this forum is an unbelievable asshole.

This forum is in part, and my contribution for the most part, a lighthearted simulation. If you read my other posts: I pop MDMA, use LSD and am a dutch guy that is very much pro-drug, pro-legalization. But if people dont volunteer to play the role of counterpoint there can be no discussion - we all would agree with each other!


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Edited by Asante (06/24/05 07:35 AM)


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: Asante]
    #4331534 - 06/24/05 07:41 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

We have the mass media, D.A.R.E., the government, and several other sources that can give us the same counterpoints. I don't think they need our help to get there brainwashing propaganda out.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: LSDempire]
    #4331544 - 06/24/05 07:50 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think we would want D.A.R.E on our Shroomery forum.
The Drug War Arena is a place where we can hone our pro-drug debating skills. Perhaps we'll have real ANTI-people someday soon on here.

As far as I'm concerned: I'm harmless (unlike marijuana :evil:) because I'm pro-drug. I use alot of random BS (like the uncool great-grandfather quotes) but the core of my posts here are the stuff that is actually *used* by prohibitionists. It's like martial arts practice as compared to a real match, when you're faced by an opponent in a real situation. Because let's face it: given the current War on Drugs situation it is likely that you will someday meet head-on with some very real opponents on your RL path.

Its a bit of serious activism, a bit of debating class from when we were still in school and a bit of fun as a cherry on the cake.
Take my posts here lightly.

You get the practice, I get to see pro-drug debate from the "other side", used *against* me, so its useful (and hopefully fun) to both parties.


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: Asante]
    #4332117 - 06/24/05 11:14 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Here is my problem with your statement, "Bring them out into the open so the junkies have to walk trough the day light to get there fix so everyone can see, instead of forcing them into the darkness" we want to end the war on drugs to increase freedom and civil rights, forcing people to "Bring them out into the open so the junkies have to walk trough the day light to get there fix so everyone can see" means that the government would simply be using drugs to control and humiliate people. How is that any better than the war on drugs?




Don't we want our kids to NOT use these hard substances? We could set up progams for children to see how these hard drugs really mess people up. What is better than a real live visual aid to assist in education?

And I would wager you $100,000 that any junkie on this planet would rather walk past a 2-way mirror in a medical facility to get his fix than to; sell their body, rob a store or all the other crazy things these people are forced to come up with to satisfy their addiction.

I personally would rather just see everything legal outright. But I am also willing to settle on just about any middle ground that doesn't involve my country having 4% of the planets population and 25% of it's prisoners.


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You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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Offlineunearth
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: Sycronica]
    #4361331 - 07/01/05 09:35 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

"You know very well that my point was that illegal drugs are too dangerous for use period, thats why they are illegal. If you are making drugs available you are spreading a menace to society and its a good thing our government has no part in that."

do you have any idea how many good things marijuana does for people.
http://www.thc-ministry.net/cannabisinfo.htm
and your saying alchol and tabbacco isnt dangerous,man you got issues


Edited by unearth (07/01/05 09:37 PM)


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OfflineE8Kruesler
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: unearth]
    #4594196 - 08/29/05 02:31 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Hello Niteowl and fellow participants
Concerning Holland, the more nations that reject the US-imposed drug war, the more Americans will see how ridiculous their drug war is. I constantly discuss the drug war with people here in Minneapolis, and one of the first questions asked is about how other nations are dealing with drugs. This is an unfortunate question, because Americans, who are usually very arrogant people who perceive themselves to be leaders on issues of morals, as we are in science, are afraid to take the role of leadership and experiment with legalization for, say, five years. This would be the scientific approach: observe, debate, and make new public policy accordingly.
We are (or maybe have been) leaders in science and technology, but this will be handicapped by our culture of religion.
Many people are making money from the drug war (and the rest of us are losing and suffering because of it), and this stifles any hope for even a brief period of experimental legalization--unless more people get out into the public square with picket signs and posters and select one representative to embarrass for not sponsoring public debates on the issue of federal drug policy and then getting their city council or state legislature to pass a resolution condemning the drug war.
I see a parallel with recognizing gay marriages. Can we expect, in two years, that Spain and Canada will have gone to Hell in a handbasket for allowing greater freedom for more people to be themselves?
If we were a compassionate nation, instead of one dedicated to punishment, we would legalize and establish a federal program of rehabilitation centers where everyone who becomes addicted can have a place to go for help to get them off of heroin, cocaine, nicotine and alcohol.
And I'd like to respond to this comment: "When your daughter spends all her allowance on marijuana, stops studying and goes out with a guy named Star who has longer hair than her, you'll come to other thoughts."
Humans, like all other animals, are curious creatures. If one's son or daughter stops studying and spends their allowance on marijuana or other drugs, this reflects poorly on the parent. An intelligent and responsible parent, in my estimation, is one who would not go bananas upon discovering his teenager doing drugs, but would sit down with their teenager and explain and define moderation and balance. On the other side of a chemical high is the high from learning new things. If that learning can be used to become a part of a community of achievers, that too, is rewarded. "Community of achievers" can mean anything from being a school teacher to being qualified to become part of a team of scientists.
"Stops studying." I belong to one of the most active atheist organizations in the nation. I have yet to meet anyone who smokes or indulges in other drugs including alcohol. This may be the difference between active/involved atheists and those who do not show up for committee and general membership meetings; but those of us who do, are very busy people. I'm too busy researching and writing to have my precious time wasted on alcohol and other drugs. When I'm debating with or simply learning from others on issues of abortion, overpopulation, gay rights, the status of women in Third World nations, etc., I must have a clear mind.
A responsible parent would give their teenager, as soon as possible, scientifically-accurate information on all the drugs available from the street. In the 60s, I got enough information on LSD, both pro and con, where I had to make a decision between doing it once for its psychedelic adventure, or take a chance in suffering negative effects. I chose to avoid LSD. I also chose to experiment a bit with marijuana and decided that although I like the fragrance, I didn't like inhaling the smoke--caused too much coughing. I did get a little high a few times, but the spaced-out feeling I experienced was wasted time.
The question, however, is why should I be arrested and thrown in jail for experimenting? I've seen statements characterizing our society as fascist. In my view, that seems to be an appropriate application to describe our oppressive and irrational society.
--E8Kruesler


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: Sycronica]
    #4594228 - 08/29/05 02:58 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sycronica said:
Quote:

Here is my problem with your statement, "Bring them out into the open so the junkies have to walk trough the day light to get there fix so everyone can see, instead of forcing them into the darkness" we want to end the war on drugs to increase freedom and civil rights, forcing people to "Bring them out into the open so the junkies have to walk trough the day light to get there fix so everyone can see" means that the government would simply be using drugs to control and humiliate people. How is that any better than the war on drugs?




Don't we want our kids to NOT use these hard substances? We could set up progams for children to see how these hard drugs really mess people up. What is better than a real live visual aid to assist in education?

And I would wager you $100,000 that any junkie on this planet would rather walk past a 2-way mirror in a medical facility to get his fix than to; sell their body, rob a store or all the other crazy things these people are forced to come up with to satisfy their addiction.

I personally would rather just see everything legal outright. But I am also willing to settle on just about any middle ground that doesn't involve my country having 4% of the planets population and 25% of it's prisoners.




Don't we want our kids to NOT use these hard substances? We could set up progams for children to see how these hard drugs really mess people up. What is better than a real live visual aid to assist in education?

We are talking about people here. "A real live visual aid" is not what a person should be forced to be. I'm sure some Jews would rather have been in soviet concentration camps than Nazi concentration camps, but I would rather they don't have to deal with any form of bondage. If a drug user harms him or herself that's his or her own right, it does not give us the right to use them as a visual aid or impose any form of bondage upon them.


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: niteowl]
    #4594972 - 08/29/05 12:16 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Since America is based on personal freedoms....the "War on Drugs" is un-American and probably un-Constitutional.

An easy solution to this war, is to legalize all recreational drugs and ration them.

If you want to buy marijuana(alcohol/cocaine...) you will have to take a class on the dangers of the drug. Once you take the class you will have to pass a basic knowledge test to get a license to buy marijuana(alcohol/cocaine...)

This license will have a limit to how much marijuana(alcohol/cocaine...) you can buy per week. If you are caught misusing the drug your license can be suspended or revoked.

With the government in control this will be a much safer system than the current uncontrolled rampant drug use in America today.

This takes the danger out of the drug and allows some control over the distribution of the drug.


???comments.......suggestions....complaints???



I agree, but them putting a marker on how much of the drug you can buy would still be unconstitutional, but hey i'd take the license anyday.


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: PreparationH]
    #4595071 - 08/29/05 12:44 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PreperationH said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
Since America is based on personal freedoms....the "War on Drugs" is un-American and probably un-Constitutional.

An easy solution to this war, is to legalize all recreational drugs and ration them.

If you want to buy marijuana(alcohol/cocaine...) you will have to take a class on the dangers of the drug. Once you take the class you will have to pass a basic knowledge test to get a license to buy marijuana(alcohol/cocaine...)

This license will have a limit to how much marijuana(alcohol/cocaine...) you can buy per week. If you are caught misusing the drug your license can be suspended or revoked.

With the government in control this will be a much safer system than the current uncontrolled rampant drug use in America today.

This takes the danger out of the drug and allows some control over the distribution of the drug.


???comments.......suggestions....complaints???



I agree, but them putting a marker on how much of the drug you can buy would still be unconstitutional, but hey i'd take the license anyday.




I agree, but I want a Libertarian government that allows you to buy and use any drug you want as much as you want. I do not want a socialist government telling me what I can and can not do with my own body.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: LSDempire]
    #4787473 - 10/11/05 01:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I agree, but I want a Libertarian government that allows you to buy and use any drug you want as much as you want.

There will always have to be some form of control over drugs. Age being the primary restriction.

I don't want any teenager to be able to get his or her hands on a pound of pure heroine.


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OfflineAkNyD8wHzK2gHKxJ
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: niteowl]
    #4838404 - 10/22/05 03:16 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Here's an idea, It's my central nervous system; STAY OUT! I cannot believe my eyes and ears when it comes to this war America has declaired upon its own people. Teach your kids right from wrong and responsibility above negative conotations associated with the people who have fucked themselves all up with drugs. Be parents to your children, Not to me or mine.


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OfflineS8N
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: AkNyD8wHzK2gHKxJ]
    #4848242 - 10/24/05 11:10 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

id say at the age of 17 i could get marijuana, 7 days a week. but cigerettes were hard to get. at age 17 again, lsd was easy for me to get my paws on, but beer forget about it! shrooms @ age 18 no problem. alcohol forget about it! at age 19 being offered crack cocaine. hey finaly i found a 50 year old crack head thats cool as shit! so i would slam my 40's and trip out high as fuck. never that vial crack shit. i say we do to the columbians what they did to us. flood their streets with hard drugs and take down the cocaine empire....... just a thought


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Offlinephiltrick
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Re: A solution to the "War on Drugs" [Re: AkNyD8wHzK2gHKxJ]
    #4902582 - 11/06/05 10:38 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AkNyD8wHzK2gHKxJ said:
Here's an idea, It's my central nervous system; STAY OUT! I cannot believe my eyes and ears when it comes to this war America has declaired upon its own people. Teach your kids right from wrong and responsibility above negative conotations associated with the people who have fucked themselves all up with drugs. Be parents to your children, Not to me or mine.




The War on Drugs is blatantly unconstitutional.

Atleast in the 1920s, they went through the effort to AMEND THE CONSTITUTION.

Amending the Constitution isn't exactly a small deal, and they did that to attempt to stop the consumption of a drug.

Now, it's simple legislature. The government regulating how I treat myself.

Legalizing drugs would put REAL control on them. Require the age of 18. It's harder for a child to get cigarettes than it is to get marijuana. Kinda defeats the purpose of the Drug War don't you think?

Adults deserve to consume that which they want to consume. People who drink alcohol are dangerous in cars, so we make that a crime. We don't make drinking a crime.

Fuck the all-powerful Commerce clause. The Federal government was meant to be constrained by this clause, not empowered. Me, smoking pot in my bedroom, has NOTHING to do with inter-state commerce. Thank you.

Maybe the sale and transportation between the states, but that falls under typical consumer goods, so therefore any laws that should apply to marijuana or any otehr drug (such as tobacco and alcohol) would have to fall under the same leaf. So, worst case, you should have the sin tax on marijuana as well.

The price would still drop, and you wouldn't have people killing other people over un-enforcable contracts.

...damn hypocritical government.

Both the religious zealots and the liberal nannies are destroying America. They're just doing it in different ways.


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