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OfflineTameMe
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i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy....
    #4899188 - 11/06/05 01:18 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

thoughts?

would we think or interact the way we do with out the inebriants?

i personally don't think we would.

how about you?

maybe it's not nesarcary to help enlighten every mind...but i think they (the drugs) act like a social lubricant and almost like a social drug.....

we need something like drugs for our society to function properly...i think anyways....

i don't know

i'm drunk and stoned..tell me your thoughts...and i will try to sober up and see if this even turned into an allright thread...or just me being a drunk ass that happens to type fast.


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: TameMe]
    #4899285 - 11/06/05 02:10 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

drugs are horrible for society and we'd be much better off without them. then people would have to learn how to socialize and how to deal with life without masking their problems a chemical. drugs halt peoples spiritual growth and have many adverse affects on society. it's rediculous to think we need them to function properly. obviously if we didn't have them we'd have to learn to function without them and that would be a good thing.

note: i am not ranting against psychedelics but the fact is that the # of people use psychedelics for a truly positive purpose is very small compared to the amount of people who use other drugs for other purposes.


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: porcupine]
    #4899823 - 11/06/05 10:02 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

how can you be so sure?


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: TameMe]
    #4900421 - 11/06/05 01:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

what do you mean? that's just my opinion based on my experiences with drugs and drug useage. the eskimos were able to function properly without drugs so why couldn't we learn to also? they are simply not necessary for survival of a society, in fact they seem pretty detrimental if you ask me. it may seem to you like we need them because we are so used to having them that some of us can't imagine life without them, like television or fast food. but in fact people who didn't have these things managed just fine. do you think we'd all go extinct if drugs dissapeared from the face of the earth or would we learn to live without them? and how do you define proper functioning? in the year 2000 over 470,000 people were killed by tobacco alone. this obviously doesn't take into account all the people killed by alcohol, illegal drugs, drunk or drugged driving, newborns killed by their mother's drug use, etc. you call this "proper functioning"?

of course our culture wouldn't be quite the same without them but you can't use this as evidence they are necessary. people wouldn't think or act the same way without hollywood but this doesn't mean hollywood is necessary for a society to function.


Edited by porcupine (11/06/05 02:02 PM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: porcupine]
    #4900493 - 11/06/05 02:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

" the eskimos were able to function properly without drugs"

the correct term is inuit, not eskimo. eskimo is like a white person's insult word, along the lines of nigger. And also, the inuit distilled alcohol. not only that, they were so eager for a buzz they created it by killing penguins, burying them and leaving them for years, then returning and drinking the fermented penguin juice.

that said we could function without drugs, and the majority of drugs have a negative effect on the majority of people. But... thank god for psychadelics.


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: porcupine]
    #4900554 - 11/06/05 02:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

porcupine said:
what do you mean? that's just my opinion based on my experiences with drugs and drug useage. the eskimos were able to function properly without drugs so why couldn't we learn to also? they are simply not necessary for survival of a society, in fact they seem pretty detrimental if you ask me. it may seem to you like we need them because we are so used to having them that some of us can't imagine life without them, like television or fast food. but in fact people who didn't have these things managed just fine. do you think we'd all go extinct if drugs dissapeared from the face of the earth or would we learn to live without them? and how do you define proper functioning? in the year 2000 over 470,000 people were killed by tobacco alone. this obviously doesn't take into account all the people killed by alcohol, illegal drugs, drunk or drugged driving, newborns killed by their mother's drug use, etc. you call this "proper functioning"?

of course our culture wouldn't be quite the same without them but you can't use this as evidence they are necessary. people wouldn't think or act the same way without hollywood but this doesn't mean hollywood is necessary for a society to function.




i wasn't really meaning to ask if they were necessary to survival.

you seem to be under the opinion that drugs for the most part are mainly bad for us as a society, right?

a world with out recreational drugs would be kinda weird i think. and things would definitely not be the same.


Edited by TameMe (11/06/05 02:38 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4900562 - 11/06/05 02:40 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

return tickets to the carnival spirit of incarnation
(great info on inuit penguinism)


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: porcupine]
    #4900608 - 11/06/05 02:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Drugs and alcohol(tobacco, caffeine) play a huge role in our global economy.....and they've been around a long time...

sort of recently big things like technology and oil are popping up.

with out good economy....you don't make new technologies.....

maybe we wouldn't even be able to be this populous either.

(also...maybe your mom fucked your dad cuz she got drunk....and because of alcohol...you are now alive) :crazy2: :sun: :grin:


Edited by TameMe (11/06/05 02:56 PM)


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: TameMe]
    #4900675 - 11/06/05 03:24 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

yes, i am under the impression that overall reacreational drugs are bad for society. you can't say that without drugs we wouldn't have technology because you simply don't know enough about what things would be like without them, we might even have better technology. it's something that is very difficult to speculate about, there are too many unknowns. they've been around so long and played such a large roll in history it's simply impossible to determine how the world would be without them in my opinion.


Edited by porcupine (11/06/05 03:28 PM)


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: porcupine]
    #4900687 - 11/06/05 03:29 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

you are right....but it is here and we know of nothing else. everything in the universe is dependant on everything else in the universe....

maybe there could be a universe with Man making technology with out drugs but as far as we know...there is not.


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OfflineDfekt
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: porcupine]
    #4900879 - 11/06/05 04:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

porcupine said:
drugs are horrible for society and we'd be much better off without them.




Don't you think this is quite a rash generalisation? I'm not saying that certain drugs are not detrimental to society but once again we have returned to the same old problem of all different drugs and their subsequent effects being lumped together in the same category.

Quote:


then people would have to learn how to socialize and how to deal with life without masking their problems a chemical.




True, a lot of people choose to use chemicals in this way, but not all people who use drugs use them for the same purpose with the same results. This is a stereotype often entertained by anti-drugs people...
Quote:




drugs halt peoples spiritual growth




SOME drugs do this. Many others (and not just psychedelics) have the opposite effect. It all depends on who takes them and why.

Quote:

and have many adverse affects on society. it's rediculous to think we need them to function properly. obviously if we didn't have them we'd have to learn to function without them and that would be a good thing.




  :thumbup: True, but life would be a lot less fun without them IMO!  :grin:

Peace  :stoned:


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"Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit." ~Oscar Wilde


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: Dfekt]
    #4901064 - 11/06/05 05:48 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Don't you think this is quite a rash generalisation? I'm not saying that certain drugs are not detrimental to society but once again we have returned to the same old problem of all different drugs and their subsequent effects being lumped together in the same category.

no, i don't think so. i think overall the the amount of negative things drugs do far outweights the positive.

True, a lot of people choose to use chemicals in this way, but not all people who use drugs use them for the same purpose with the same results. This is a stereotype often entertained by anti-drugs people...

i never claimed all people use drugs in this way.

SOME drugs do this. Many others (and not just psychedelics) have the opposite effect. It all depends on who takes them and why.


in my experience, even WITH psychedelics it is only a small select few people who actually benefit from them spiritually. the psychedelic drug users i know in real life are all people who abuse them or people who only look at them as a means of getting fucked up. the overall affect of drugs on peoples spiritual growth is undoubtedly negative (in my view). also, many of the people who are able to use drugs to further their spiritual growth are people who are spiritual already and would get along fine without drugs. as far as non psychedelic drugs i think the amount of peoples live i've seen destroyed by them outweighs any small benefits they might have given someone. explain what these "many other drugs that have the opposite affect" are because i certainly haven't encountered them.

True, but life would be a lot less fun without them IMO!

Peace


i dissagree, its quite possible to thoroughly enjoy life without taking drugs.


Edited by porcupine (11/06/05 06:08 PM)


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OfflineDfekt
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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: porcupine]
    #4901513 - 11/06/05 07:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

porcupine said:

no, i don't think so. i think overall the the amount of negative things drugs do far outweights the positive.


This is probably true, but in my opinion most of this negative impact can be attributed to ignorance, miseducation, irresponsible individuals and the shambles that is the "war on drugs", as opposed to the actual chemicals themselves.


umm examples?

The main example i was thinking of would be the way in which MDMA can be used in conjunction with dance and electronic music, which many people (including myself) regard as a highly spiritual experience. Many even consider this a form of meditation (http://www.erowid.org/spirit/dancing/dancing.shtml). Another would be shamanic use of tobacco in Amazonian tribes. I cant think of any others at the moment lol but you get my point...


in my experience, even WITH psychedelics it is only a small select few people who actually benefit from them spiritually. the psychedelic drug users i know in real life are all people who abuse them or people who only look at them as a means of getting fucked up.  the overall affect of drugs on peoples spiritual growth is undoubtedly negative (in my view).


Unfortunately, this is the case within a lot of different places, where the majority of people take drugs without respecting them or using them to nurture spiritual growth. But we should also try not to forget that in some places, the balance is tipped the other way, and plants & drugs are used by the majority in a shamanic or religious fashion to expand consciousness and improve their lives. I suppose it all depends on where you live...
Overall, globally, it's easy to get the impression that the negative impact would seem to outweigh the positive, because the negative effects are the only ones which are forced down our throats by the government and the media, every single day from the cradle to the grave. As Bill Hicks once said, when was the last time you heard a news report about a positive drug experience?


also, many of the people who are able to use drugs to further their spiritual growth are people who are spiritual already and would get along fine without drugs.


Absoultely true, although i'd just like to point out that there are also a lot of people who don't consider themselves spiritually minded until an experience with a drug sets them down the path to self discovery, giving them a kick start into developing their spirituality which they probably never would have had without the chemicals. Many of those people probably post on this forum  :grin:


i dissagree, its quite possible to thoroughly enjoy life without taking drugs.


I totally agree, but obviously this topic is a matter of personal preference and everyone will have a different perspective on this  :smile:


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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: Dfekt]
    #4901659 - 11/06/05 08:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i agree the main benefit of drugs is opening peoples minds to other forms of consciousness and the spiritual path. that is what they did for me. maybe you're right that in other parts of the world drugs are used constructively. i am just going by what i have observed where i live. even the few drug users i've met who are aware of the spiritual side of drugs still tend to abuse them to a very high degree.

also, i consider MDMA at least semi psychedelic and you said the drugs "have the opposite affect" not can be used for the opposite. for example tobacco certainly does not have a spiritual affect on the majority of americans who use it regardless of whether it can be used that way. a shaman might be able to use crack in a positive way. this does not mean crack has a positive affect on the majority of people who use it. i am not saying that the problems lie in the drug themselves, i am simply saying the overall affect of drugs on society is harmful.


Edited by porcupine (11/06/05 08:34 PM)


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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: porcupine]
    #4901712 - 11/06/05 08:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

maybe the effect of the universe and of just being human in general is the cause of harm....


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Re: i'm drunk...and i'm wondering...what are the role(s) of drugs in our society and in philosophy.. [Re: TameMe]
    #4901864 - 11/06/05 09:33 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The human mind is too complex for just one state of consciousness.


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