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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: 1stimer]
    #3267473 - 10/23/04 11:00 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

1stimer said:




A more appropriate question is: How come Bush doesnt resign as president for life and take all his stolen billions and move to saudi arabia? This would have saved 1100 american soldiers lives and countless numbers of innocent iraqis and an american quadriplegic. Then Bush could be with his butt buddies, the saudis.




And my dog!!!!!

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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: retread]
    #3267781 - 10/23/04 12:46 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Since you support the killing of innocent Iraqi children, fuck your damn dog.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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OfflineScooby_Snacks
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: 1stimer]
    #3267948 - 10/23/04 01:36 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

First...sorry about your dog.

Here are a few questions of my own...

Why is Bush so afraid of the international court? Anyone wonder what might happen to him if Kerry is elected and signs us on?

As far as Bush taking responsibility for civilian deaths, after serving during the first Desert Storm/Desert Shield/Middle east Conflict I was against this war from the start. I feel sorrow at the unnecessary life lost
Iraq Body Count

As you can see this number dwarfs the number of casualties caused by 911 And those are not all Iraq citizens, we have lost our own troops in this war and Bush does not take responsibility for them. By blacking out the images of our dead coming home in flag draped caskets he has effectively desensitized the masses.

Edited by Scooby_Snacks (10/23/04 01:40 PM)

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: Phred]
    #3267976 - 10/23/04 01:43 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:

How come no one ever gets pissed at Hussein for not resigning as President for Life, arranging free elections, then boogying off to some other country to live out the rest of his life in comfort with his stolen billions?





because then he would have clearly been acting in self-interest. The fact that he refused this offer shows that he actually had other motives for running Iraq besides power and money. Perhaps he believed that he was the best man for a dirty job, and refused to give it to someone ele for fear that they would fuck it up.

not being able to be bought is generally considered a sign of integrity. Even if the values he stuck to were distasteful to some, you gotta give him credit for sticking to his guns in the face of American bribery.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: Scooby_Snacks]
    #3268108 - 10/23/04 02:20 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Scooby_Snacks said:


Why is Bush so afraid of the international court? Anyone wonder what might happen to him if Kerry is elected and signs us on?




Clinton wasn't interested either, and if Kerry is he should say so. I'm not interested in having my fellow Americans judged by an utterly corrupt group of envious thugs (see UN oil for food scandal). Isn't Libya currently on the UN panel for Human Rights? Or is it Syria?


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: Phred]
    #3278395 - 10/26/04 05:32 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

OK dude -

this is why:

You are talking about a completely irrelevant alternate reality.

One might as well ask: 'I know why everyone is pissed at Hitler for gassing all those Jews and so on, but why is no one pissed off that he didn't just take a few billion once ihe got in total control of Germany and go and live on a beach somewhere?'

It is irrelevant.

These people who get in these positions of power are megolamaniacs. Of course they love riches and need a huge amount of money to carry out their pathalogical habits, but money is by no means the be akll and end all. Far from it, money is a facilitator and a necessary ingredient for their character's purpose.

Saddam was never going to just walk away - because he is not actually in it for the money. He needs purpose in his life, and if he was to leave his position, his created identity, he would lose that.

People are not pissed off with Saddam for not running away when he had the chance, because they know this is action not to be found in his character. It actually undermines Saddam being Saddam in the most basic of basic ways. (Not even in an international way, in his domestic life) -

In other words, political megolamaniacs have a strong ideology and sense of purpose. They have strong characters and they are committed to their character. To do what you suggest would be completely out of character and non-sensical to the purpose of someone who is strongly affirmed in their role, and whose role is their life.

it was never going to happen - so why get pissed off about something that was never going to happen? A fantasy....

If one is to be pissed off, then much better to be pissed off at the shit things which are 'real', and the (political) dilemmas that are 'real'/genuine. Why the Hell would anyone be pissed off at an irrelevant fantasy?

Edited by CJay (10/27/04 12:10 PM)

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: silversoul7]
    #3278403 - 10/26/04 05:42 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
How come no one ever gets pissed at Hussein for not resigning as President for Life, arranging free elections, then boogying off to some other country to live out the rest of his life in comfort with his stolen billions?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Because Saddam Hussein is not my leader, and does not act on my behalf. 




:thumbup: Exactly!


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: Phred]
    #3284117 - 10/27/04 12:04 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Yo pinkster - what do you think of everyone's answers to your questions?

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: CJay]
    #3284478 - 10/27/04 01:24 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

They're what I expected.

It's more convenient to blame Bush than Hussein for the deaths of thousands because Bush is expected to act honorably while Hussein is not. Hussein could have prevented tens of thousands of deaths with no loss to himself. Yet Bush and Blair and Howard are the bad guys. Right.

I understand full well that most of the people in this forum would prefer to see Hussein still in power in Iraq. I can understand their point of view -- it was only Iraqis being tortured and killed, after all, not people we know personally. Similarly, it is only Sudanese getting killed in Darfur right now. It's their problem -- let them deal with it. Same with the Tutsis getting slaughtered in Rwanda or the Muslims being slaughtered in the Balkans. Too bad, so sad, not my problem.

I just find it amusing to the point of hilarity that everyone posting here who would prefer Hussein were still in power in Iraq blames Bush or Blair or Howard or the Pope or Kang and Kodos (The Simpsons reference) rather than Hussein.

I notice no one bothered to answer the followup -- had Hussein stepped down, would there have been anyone killed in the ensuing non-invasion? No, it's easier to bluster on about how Hussein shouldn't have been expected to step down voluntarily.


pinky


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: Phred]
    #3284690 - 10/27/04 02:15 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I see what you mean, but I think you may be mis-judging many of us.

Like you say Bush is expected to act honourably, such is the nature of his position in his culture. Hussein being an out and out dictator does not have these same demands on him, since it is not expected of totalitarian leaders who have shown such colours.

Personally I find it horrifying the torture and death to Iraqis under his reign, and likewise the situation in Dafur right now. However I see little evidence of any true remedy to either situation being given by Bush, Blair and co's approach to either situation.

You see it does matter and they are real people, and the thing is - they are still dying and have gained precious little, if anything at all, from the war that has been brought to them.

I don't think Bush and Blair are the bad guys and Hussein is a good guy - I personally just think they are all necessary elements and products of the historical drama we must all live through as humans.

What I do find funny is that the USAdmin supported and encouraged Saddam's warring ways and invasive actions for a decade or so while it suited them, and while Saddam was clearly at the height of his inhumane worst. While in this position the USAdmin did nothing to try to discourage his domestic killing sprees and all was well with the US Iraq relationship.

A double standard which is only invoked either way at times of convenience for the US powermongers.

For that is what it all comes down to, the political reach of the leaders of each nation - everyone wants to reach as far as they can and assimilate or quasi-enslave whoever they can, by whatever means and whatever rhetoric works from one minute to the next.

Quote:

had Hussein stepped down, would there have been anyone killed in the ensuing non-invasion? No, it's easier to bluster on about how Hussein shouldn't have been expected to step down voluntarily.




It's not that Hussein shouldn't have been expected to step down, it's that wee all know he never would have. Can you honestly imagine a man of his principles doing that?

As for if he did....well Iraq might well have had a lot of death on its soil. Perhaps not, but I feel the ensuing battle for leadership of the country amongst the various factions of Islam and the remainder of his government could and most likely would have sparked a blood bath and probably a slide into violent anarchy comparable to that which has occured as a result of the invasion.

The thing about a place like Iraq is - it's a hard place, a desert place, a survival place, a factioned land of militias and worshippers of a tyranical desrt god - and Saddam kept it under his belt. Not only that, he kind of lived the American dream - this was no rich boy born into royalty, this man worked his way up from the bottom. That's no mean feat.

However I expect after the period of drastic upheaval following his abdication, which may have lasted some long number of years or just some months, another would have risen to take his place. Culture.

Who knows eh? I certainly doubt his abdication would have been a panecea.

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Offlinenycomyco
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: Phred]
    #3284971 - 10/27/04 03:09 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I am absolutely pissed about the atrocities that Hussein commited, speaking for myself. Here is what one journalist from the Washington Post who supports the ousting of Hussein said about his history:

David J. Scheffer - "Try Him for his Crimes"

"The criminal record includes other serious war crimes during the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s; the genocidal Anfal campaign against Iraqi Kurds in 1987 and 1988; the invasion and occupation of Kuwait in 1990; the violent suppression of the 1991 uprising that led to 30,000 or more mostly civilian deaths; the draining of the southern marshes during the 1990s, which ethnically cleansed Hussein's southern flank of thousands of Iraqi Shiites; more ethnic cleansing of the non-Arab population of Kirkuk and other northern Iraqi areas; and the summary executions of thousands of political opponents"

I am not arguing that he has killed many thousands of people, but my hatred for Hussein does not have to be inversely proportional to the amound of anger I feel for what Bush and friends have gotten the world into. If you think that their plan was to liberate the iraqi people for their own sake, just read the "Project for the New American Century." Wolfowitz clearly spells out that small rogue nations like Iraq are the perfect windows through which to open up an American imperialistic crusade. It also states that the seperate crusade to get the american people behind this action is "likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event ? like a new Pearl Harbor..." Lucky for them, there was 9/11.
The motivation behind going to Iraq is there! If you look at the dates for all of the major death rampages Hussein went on, they are entirely from the Reagan to the Clinton years, with the worst occuring during Reagan, when we gave hussein weapons to fight Iran. I may be mistaken, but I think that we also supplied weapons to Iraq against the Kurds, or at least that the weapons we supplied most likely went to the genocide of the Kurds.
There is video of Rumsfeld shaking Hussein's hand in the mid 1980's!!!
The US knew that Hussein had killed thousands of people, and not only did we ignore him, we gave him weapons!
Lucky for Wolfowitz, Cheney, Bush and all the neocons, 911 and the faulty link between Iraq and Bin Laden (along with lies about WMDs coming from Reps and Dems alike) may be enough to get the voters behind him this time around. If he does get elected, expect the crusade that Wolfowitz spelled out in 1992 to continue and the civil liberties of individuals to be continually diminished.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: Phred]
    #3288883 - 10/28/04 11:11 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I understand full well that most of the people in this forum would prefer to see Hussein still in power in Iraq. I can understand their point of view -- it was only Iraqis being tortured and killed, after all, not people we know personally. Similarly, it is only Sudanese getting killed in Darfur right now. It's their problem -- let them deal with it. Same with the Tutsis getting slaughtered in Rwanda or the Muslims being slaughtered in the Balkans. Too bad, so sad, not my problem.





Do you think that it is even possible to have a peaceful Iraq with all that oil in the ground?

Do you think that ANY form of government would be capable of maintaining order in a country that has so much of what the entire world wants?

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3294140 - 10/29/04 02:39 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

This whole "the violence in Iraq is due to its oil" schtick is getting way old. Mexico has oil. Norway has oil. Canada has oil. Russia has oil. Kuwait has oil. Saudi Arabia has oil. None of them have anywhere near the same level of violence as Iraq has at present.

The reason for the violence in Iraq is that the Jihadists absolutely cannot allow democracy to take hold there so they are doing everything they can to stop it. The Jihadists don't give two shits about oil.

pinky


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: Phred]
    #3307996 - 11/02/04 04:58 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The reason for the violence in Iraq is that the Jihadists absolutely cannot allow democracy to take hold there so they are doing everything they can to stop it. The Jihadists don't give two shits about oil.




It is their part of the world. Can't blame them. Plus it ain't just jihadists, it's people who are real pissed at the USA killing their friends and families, stitching them up twice with bogus liberations from Saddam and generally being dark duplicitous cunts.

- but I think even to them oil is a pretty valuable resource.


However it takes 2 to tango -

The reason for the violence in Iraq is that the USA absolutely cannot allow any form of independently guided governance to take hold there so they are doing everything they can to stop it. The USA doesn't give two shits about democracy or humanitarianism - they just want global economic control..

VOTE HALLIBUTON!

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Offlinenycomyco
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: Phred]
    #3321960 - 11/04/04 09:00 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

pink,
I don't hink that oil was the main reason we went to war in iraq, but can you really see the goverment getting domestic support for invading mexico, norway, canada, kuwait, or saudi arabia for their oil? doesn't iraq seem more feasible?

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: nycomyco]
    #3323349 - 11/05/04 06:21 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I don't understand the question. Iraq wasn't invaded for its oil, as you agree. If the US wouldn't invade even Iraq (with its multiple other good reasons for being invaded) for its oil, why would it invade Norway or Canada?

The US doesn't take oil, it buys oil from whoever is willing to sell it, at the price the seller decides he will sell it for. This whole "blood for oil" bullshit is just that -- bullshit.


pinky


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Offlinenycomyco
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: Phred]
    #3324164 - 11/05/04 11:09 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

oops. I misread your post. I thought you were saying that the fact that we haven't invaded canada and norway is evidence that we don't invade countries for their oil.
Oil is just part of the larger scheme of American businesses profiting in iraq, however. Reconstruction itself is the largest business.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: retread]
    #4894309 - 11/04/05 02:48 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)












.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Re: Bush kills my dog [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4894448 - 11/04/05 03:40 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

"Modern Liberals, With Some Exceptions, Are Fascists. They Preach Peace At The Expense Of Liberty, Diversity At The Expense Of Common Sense, Equality At The Expense Of Fairness And Choice At The Expense Of Life. They Are The First To Speak About Rights, Yet They Seek To Deny You Yours If You Disagree With Them. They Vociferate The Importance Of Free Speech, Yet Do Everything In Their Power To Stifle Yours. They Demonize The Very System Which Allows Them The Freedom To Criticize In The First Place, And They Are The Last People In Line When It Comes To Defending The One Country On Earth That Would Ever Tolerate Their Hypocrisy. They Are Divisive, Immoral And Utterly Incapable Of Understanding Why Everything I Just Wrote Is The Truth." - Edward L. Daley


http://massgraves.info/

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