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OfflineJammer
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Peyotl]
    #506718 - 01/01/02 03:09 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

In a previous message Peyotl said:

"if i were a spore peddler thers onl one thing id worry about: the IRS. the govt painted themselves in a corner about the mushrom not being ilegal just the substance. now they cant goto court without loooking like a bunch of pricks, so they might sic the IRS on top vendors. i cant imagine PF turning in a tax form sayin he works at PF sending mushroom spore syringes nationwide. maybe im wrong."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jammer:

That reminds me off how the Feds used to shut down bootleggers and moonshiners. Dureing Prohibition they never did catch ole Al Capone with any booze. But they finally did managed to shut down his violent crime network by convencing a jury that he never paid his income tax. After all the guy lived the life of luxary and could not account as to where his source of income came from. They have locked up some major drug dealers with the income tax laws as well. What I keep wondering is how the hell the goverment can possibly have a clue as to how much tax a spore vendor should pay when much of the business is encouraging customers to send them cash.




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>>Jammer>>

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OfflineJammer
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Jammer]
    #514703 - 01/08/02 06:35 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I just wanted to make a quick mention of something here.

I have noticed in a couple of threads recently where some newbies seem to be taking information from this report and acepting it as fact. I'm not to sure thats a good idea. If law enforcment finds mycelium of any amount, I'm willing to bet that charges are likely.

Does anyone know of anyone that has sucessfully argued out of cultavation charges based on the FBI's findings in this report? I'm afraid that some have jumped the gun a bit and are under the false asumption that the law is going to search/test the myceium's knots...


--------------------
>>Jammer>>

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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Jammer]
    #521734 - 01/15/02 09:49 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Somebody was kind enough to email me the document in question about this thread.
FBI DOC: Detecting Psychoactive Drugs in the Developmental Stages of Mushrooms
Its in PDF format so you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view it.

I found a few interesting things in this study. The first is of course that psilocybe mycelium does NOT produce psilocin or psilocybin until the primodoria knot stage. Confirmed what Stamets says.

The 2nd is that mushrooms grown in indirect light throughout the entire stage started to fruit on average 21 days later, compared to mushrooms grown in the dark 26 days was the average. Also the mushrooms grown in the dark were skinnier and grew longer and had darker colored caps then the more fat lighter colored mushrooms grown in the indirect light.
That says keeping them in the dark during the vegetive cycle for better yeilds is really not so important after all.

3rd, the fact that at these very high temps they were doing the study at, the psilocybin did not survive the process but psilocyn did !!!

4th, these mushroooms were misidentified. In the report, the author gives Dr. David McLaughlin, Plant Biology Department, Univ. of Minnesota credit for his time and assiistance in identifying the mushrooms etc...
There are is a picture of cubensis fruiting from a rice cake... a very week one at that.... but obviously cubensis.

Of course PF did not post that info to back up his ego trip on this one. As well on PF's site he has Stamets name mispelled, obviously on purpose since he has always shown lack of respect for Stamets.... the report itself has Stamets name spelled correctly.

A rather interesting read. Does anybody know of any studies out there...perhaps on the net... which show how long psilocybin/psilocyn can be detected in mushrooms ?? I've always been real curious about that one.

Enjoy :)










--------------------
-Peace-

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Edited by Ryche Hawk (01/15/02 09:50 PM)

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Offlineelphinstone
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #522972 - 01/16/02 10:42 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Thank you for the original PDF file.

In the paper:

"Analysis of indole alkaloids in Norwegian Psilocybe semilanceata using
High-Performance Liquid Chromatography and Mass Spectrometry."
A. L. Christiansen and K. E. Rasmussen, Journal of Chromatography, 244 (1982) 357-364.

wrote on page 363-364:

Analysis of herbarium specimens.

"Some dried, old P. semilanceata mushrooms have been investigated for their
content of psilocybin. The results are given in Table III.

The per cent of psilocybin decreased with increasing age of the mushroom. But even after 30 years
storage, detectable quantities of psilocybin were still found. Dried mushrooms up to nine years old
contained more than 0.5% psilocybin, which shows that the mushrooms can still be potent after long
storage. Various amounts of baeocystin were detected in all mushrooms analyzed, except for the very
old herbarium samples. The content of baeocystin seemed to decrease with increasing mushroom age."

Table III
Quantitative data for psilocybin in stored samples of P. semilanceata.

Years of | Psilocybin ----| Years of | Psilocybin ----|
storage -| content %w/w | storage -| content %w/w |

-- 04 -------- 1.42 ----------- 13 -------- 0.64 -----
-- 04 -------- 0.75 ----------- 14 -------- 0.54 -----
-- 05 -------- 0.63 ----------- 22 -------- 0.29 -----
-- 06 -------- 0.61 ----------- 26 -------- 0.12 -----
-- 06 -------- 0.55 ----------- 27 -------- 0.15 -----
-- 09 -------- 0.87 ----------- 29 -------- 0.38 -----
-- 13 -------- 0.41 ----------- 29 -------- 0.10 -----
-- 13 -------- 0.65 ----------- 30 -------- 0.05 -----




Elph


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Anonymous

Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Jammer]
    #523206 - 01/17/02 05:32 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Jammer, you are right about this. It certainly is a gamble just possesing the mycelium. It's also the main reason I have decided against posting long running test of my spores colonizing. It just wouldn't be cool to have lots of jars of fluffy white mycelium in the same location where I'm running my spore business. Too big of a risk.

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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: elphinstone]
    #523635 - 01/17/02 03:59 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Well that is certainly interesting elphinstine....that study only shows psilocybin...what about psilosyn ??


--------------------
-Peace-

High Quality MUSHROOM SPORES and CULTURES  for microscopy at www.muShrooms.com



muShrooms.com is the new web site of
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Offlineelphinstone
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #525084 - 01/18/02 10:07 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)


Here's more info regarding psilocybin and psilocin levels in stored material.

In the paper:

"Analysis of indole alkaloids in Norwegian Psilocybe semilanceata using
High-Performance Liquid Chromatography and Mass Spectrometry."
A. L. Christiansen and K. E. Rasmussen, Journal of Chromatography, 244 (1982) 357-364.

The authors did not mention finding any psilocin at all, even in fresh mushrooms.
They did use a psilocin standard in their UV absorption evaluations on page 361.
Psilocybe semilanceata seems to keep so well because it only contains
psilocybin and baeocystin -- both of which are phosphorylated.


In the paper:

"Production of Psilocybin in Psilocybe baeocystis Saprophytic Culture."
Albert Y. Leung, A. H. Smith and A. G. Paul, Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences,
Vol 54, No. 11 (November 1965) 1576-1579.

The authors write on page 1579 regarding Psilocybe baeocystis:

"A recent re-examination of the two remaining carpophores of the specimen we had evaluated in
January of 1959 showed psilocin to be present, but psilocybin could not be detected. The possibility
that prolonged storage could account for these differences in psilocybin and psilocin content could
not be substantiated by evaluating a 28-year-old specimen of P. caerulipes.
Psilocybin and psilocin were found to occur in this specimen in quantities of the same order of
magnitude as were found in the specimen collected in 1959."


In the paper:

"A new species and a new variety of Psilocybe from North America."
P. E. Stamets, M. W. Beug and J. E. Bigwood, Mycotaxon,
Vol. XI, No. 2 (July-September 1980) 476-484.

The authors write on page 479 and 481:

"Further, when we analyzed two herbarium collections of Psilocybe cayanofibrillosa
from 1978, we found that they had lost most of their psilocybin and psilocin. We thus conclude
that collections should be analyzed promptly. However, activity can be retained for at least two
years by drying or freeze drying the collections, sealing them in plastic, and storing frozen."

"The high performance liquid chromatograms of Psilocybe liniformans var. americana
are quite similar to those of Psilocybe semilanceata (Secr. ex Fr.) Kumm.
Herbarium samples of these two species both appear to retain their activity, unlike most other
Psilocybe species analyzed to date."


In the book:

"Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World." Paul Stamets, ISBN 0-89815-839-7, (1996)

The author writes on page 51 and 52:

"After drying, seal them in an air-tight plastic bag and freeze them. This will preserve their
potency for the longest possible time. All species gradually lose their potency over time. Many
species will lose most of their original potency after a few years of storage.
P. semilanceata seems to degrade slowly, making it an excellent species
to store over long periods of time. This is largely due to its relatively high psilocybin and low
psilocin content. (Chart at top of p. 40 omitted.) Psilocin is unstable compared to psilocybin.
Recent studies have also shown that Psilocybe azurescens, a new species
from the Pacific Northwest, also degrades slowly, having approximately the same psilocybin and
psilocin content after six months of storage as when it was fresh. However, most psilocybin
mushrooms stored longer than a year usually show a significant loss of potency, especially in psilocin."

"Another factor affecting the potency of Psilocybes is the condition of the mushrooms at harvesting.
Older specimens, infested with parasites, will be less potent than younger specimens that were
harvested in pristine condition. Specimens that have dried in the sun, are water soaked, have been
frozen, or have become old vary in potency -- complicating determination of dosage.
However, many of us have found that, by mass, the juvenile mushrooms are usually much more potent
than the adults."


In the paper:

"Quantitative analysis of Psilocybin and Psilocin in Psilocybe baeocystis
(Singer and Smith) by High Performance Liquid Chromatography and by Thin Layer Chromatography."
Michael W. Beug and Jeremy Bigwood, Journal of Chromatography, 207 (1981) 379-385.

The authors write on page 381:

"For quantification of psilocybin and psilocin levels in wild mushrooms, we found that prompt
freeze-drying of the fresh-picked carpophores was important. Freeze-dried mushrooms retained their
psilocybin and psilocin levels for over 2 years without noticeable loss when stored in a freezer
at -60* C or at -5* C, whereas dried herbarium material often lost all activity after one year."


In the paper:

"Baeocystin in Psilocybe, Conocybe and Panaeolus."
D. B. Repke, D. T. Leslie and G. Guzman, Lloydia, 40 (1977) 566-578.

The authors write on page 576:

"This age factor is demonstrated by the results of the analyses of P. baeocystis
(LESLIE 2731) and P. cyanescens (LESLIE 2732). Baeocystin was originally
detected in both collections; however, after 66 weeks of storage at 22* C and 5-10% relative
humidity, this compound could not be detected in either collection. Psilocybin and psilocin
similarly disappeared in P. baeocystis (LESLIE 2731). The rate of
decomposition of baeocystin was irregular in these two species and in some collections of
P. baeocystis and P. cyanescens this compound was detected
even after a considerably longer storage time. Analysis of cultivated P. cubensis
(derived from LESLIE 1902) grown on horse dung shows that baeocystin, psilocybin and psilocin
could not be detected in dried material stored at 22* C for 52 wks. However, fragments of the
same carpophore stored under anhydrous conditions at -5* C for 52 wks and the freshly dried
material (14 days) both contained these compounds. Similar decreases in baeocystin content related
to storage were observed for collections of P. semilanceata, P. silvatica,
and P. stuntzii. By contrast, the amount of baeocystin (and psilocybin)
found in one collection of Panaeolus subbalteatus (LESLIE 2753) after 52 wks
storage was the same as that detected in freshly dried specimens from the same collection."


Elph


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Anonymous

Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: elphinstone]
    #525320 - 01/19/02 03:55 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Great research Elph. Maybe I will raise the urinals in the elves can!

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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: elphinstone]
    #525493 - 01/19/02 11:16 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

TY Elphanstine.....errr...max :)
I was reading in Stamets Psilos Mushrooms of the World, he also stated how they are unsure of how freezing...thawing ...refreezing would break down the molecule structure even more possilby degrading them faster.
Interesting studies.....but nothing on cubensis :(



--------------------
-Peace-

High Quality MUSHROOM SPORES and CULTURES  for microscopy at www.muShrooms.com



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Anonymous

Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #525498 - 01/19/02 11:20 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

The thanks go to Elph Ryche, I had nothing to do with it.

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OfflineJammer
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #527866 - 01/22/02 01:15 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, how long has these latest replies been on this thread?

Ryche Hawk, thanks for the link to the Acrobat Reader oringinal text file of this doc. I'm very eager to read it as soon as I get Acrobat Reader installed here.

I'm very curious why the PF guy would modify or change anything in the doc he has out from what our goverment has released. I was under the impression that the doc that he has up was the entire unmodified doc! Damm, this simply isnt right for someone to put something out like this with all of the obmissions and changes that you have pointed out!!

Thanks again for the link, I cant wait to read this!


--------------------
>>Jammer>>

Edited by Jammer (01/22/02 02:49 AM)

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Invisibleoscill8
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 1,215
Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Jammer]
    #527918 - 01/22/02 02:26 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

the (likely) purpose of the report is to stand as scientific evidence to be admitted in court regarding testimony as to the fact that psilocybin is present in the alleged mushroom species. someone could always argue the test/paper was invalid, if their lawyer doesnt stipulate to its evidentiary value and the person knew something of the science to tell their lawyer not to stipulate to its contents...

ithere are 382 cases on westlaw with the term "psilocybin" in them. most do not detail busts of cultivation, but of possession of psilocybin mushrooms (the judges often refer to mushrooms as "psilocybin"- ::grin:: but you have to give them a break, most were english majors, not knowing a whiff of science.) the one grow op case ive come across involved 4000 mason jars, 2000 styrafoam coolers, etc etc. they apparently tested the jars and some cultures and found psilocybin in them. the case was prior to the release of this report. (im still poking thru the cases, more for personal curiousity than anything). most cases about "psilocybin" arent even about mushrooms- theyre cases where someones been busted with mushrooms AND something else (mushrooms and weed, mushrooms and lsd, etc.) dealers who deal in more than one drug, is what im saying.

even if the report is true, (not saying it is), possession of spawn with other grow supplies would likely hold up an attempt charge, which generally carries the specific offense's penalty or one grade lower (so, if youre convicted of attempt, generally the punishment is the same for attempt as it is for cultivation, or is one grade lower than the actual offense- 2nd degree as opposed to 1st.) hopefully people realize its not just the mushroom that the police power are interested in.

maybe ill compile something on the legal references to psilocybin found in lexis and westlaw...


--------------------
? oscill8 2001, 2002
"Any data submitted to Shroomery.org becomes our property"

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Anonymous

Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: oscill8]
    #528055 - 01/22/02 09:01 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

I guess the judge calls it psilocybin because it isn't the mushrooms that are of interest to the law, just the chemical.

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OfflinePeyotl
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: ]
    #528192 - 01/22/02 11:43 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

it would be very diffcult for a court to ignore a FBI investigation. i think this would stop a syringe bust, but if they found some jars hat were growing id say your fucked. because of this report, you may be able to argue out of a growing charge but theyd have conspiracy roughly a foot up your ass. technically if theres no psilo in the myco at the time of the bust i fail to see hw it would be any different than morel myco. seems kinda risky, and i wouldnt want to hang my ass cherry on it but if its all you got then go with it. wiggle room is here, IMO.

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OfflineJammer
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: oscill8]
    #535495 - 01/30/02 12:35 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

You obviosly know a lot about law. (man, I'm glad that your on this site!!) Your reply was very informative. But, shesh... I have hardly EVER heard of a 'shroom growing bust. I mean, just how often does this happen? In fact, I have heard of many an ocansion where cops have found cubies in people's cars and didnt know what the fuck they were and let them drive off without even a ticket!

hehe


--------------------
>>Jammer>>

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OfflineGlacius
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: MicronMagick]
    #537449 - 02/01/02 12:52 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

It's amazing to think these people run our society and can't even properly identify a mushroom, or even spell it correctly
.HAhahaha. Bunch of fools....


--------------------
addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling

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OfflineGlacius
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Glacius]
    #537464 - 02/01/02 01:15 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Azurescen, I would have to agree with ryche on that one. I doubt that he would lie about talking with stamet. A very uneducated statment indeed...

I don't know what to think on this subject. From my expereince, it seems the FBI don't know there shit from a hole in the ground. From all my research on the subject, myceclium does, in fact contain the active alkaloids(or whatever) that get you "high". Maybe, if this report can be confirmed in any way, it might hold up in court or something. I'f only we could confirm that this data accually did come from the FBI's research. Or maybe, it was just a scam to make money. It does look quite convincing though... ha, maybe everyone can start selling live cultures, instead of just anno, in Holland( or wherever he is located)where live cultures are legal.



--------------------
addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling

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Offlineelphinstone
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: Glacius]
    #538218 - 02/01/02 11:56 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

The author of the FBI DOC paper has worked with mushrooms since 1998.
The results have been peer-reviewed.

See page: http://www.fiu.edu/~almirall/Students.htm

Former Students Section

FORENSIC EVALUATION OF AUTOMOTIVE LENSES

By Susan T. Gross, Master of Science in Forensic Science - 2001

Hit and run type accidents and other vehicle accidents often leave trace evidence behind...
...Quantitative data from all five instrumental techniques will be summarized and
evaluated by the method of Smalldon and Brown for the determination and assessment
of discrimination power.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I began in the Master's of Forensic Science program in the Fall of 1999.
I began my research in the Spring of 2000. My research will be presented
at the American Academy of Forensic Sciences at the 2001 Meeting in Seattle,
Washington , February 19 - 24.

Papers:

Gross, S. "Detecting Psychoactive Drugs in the Developmental Stages of Mushrooms".
J Forensic Sci 2000; 45(3):527-537.

Conferences:

Gross, S. "Detecting Psychoactive Drugs in Mushrooms" oral presentation at the
Midwestern Association of Forensic Scientists Meeting, October 1998.

Gross, S., Garcia, A.D., Almirall, J. R. "The Analysis of the Psilocybe Cyanescens
(Wakefield) Mushroom" oral presentation at the American Academy of Forensic Sciences
Meeting, February 1999.

Almirall, J. R., Gross, S., Garcia, A.D., A Comparison of GC-MS, LC-ECD, LC-MS,
and CE Methods for the Analysis of the Psilocybe Cyanescens (Wakefield) Mushroom
oral presentation at the Pittcon Meeting, March 1999.

Gross, S., Garcia, A.D., Almirall, J. R. "The Analysis of the Psilocybe Cyanescens
(Wakefield) Mushroom" poster presentation at the International American Academy of
Forensic Sciences Meeting, August 1999.

Awards:

New Scientist Award Recipient. Award presented by Midwestern Association of
Forensic Scientists, October 1999.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elph

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Anonymous

Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: elphinstone]
    #538472 - 02/02/02 09:56 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Excellent research Elph!

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OfflineJammer
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Re: FBI DOC: THE PSYLOCYBE FANATICUS INVISTIGATION [Re: elphinstone]
    #541983 - 02/06/02 12:35 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

No shit?

Very interesting indeed.

Awesome info! I was under the asumption that a team of Federal scientists did this reasearch... I must say, at this point I dont know any more about the legality of mycelium than I did when this thread started. (although, after re-reading this doc I now see that Susan T Gross is the sole author mentioned)

Thanks for the research!


--------------------
>>Jammer>>

Edited by Jammer (02/06/02 12:49 AM)

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