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Unagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
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Evolution, Civilization and Jesus
#4862840 - 10/28/05 09:21 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Heard an interesting fact on evolution today on the radio, where a panel of historians and biologists were discussing evolution.
Only 0.02% of human evolution has included civilization (civilization being defined as cities, towns, government, etc.), which technically began 10,000 years ago after the Ice age when humans began farming land for food for the first time.
That means as soon as human evolution reached a certain climax, humanity as we know it began to "bloom" suddenly and quickly.
Roughly 2000 years ago the man Jesus of Nazareth walked the earth espousing the inner mysteries of life to those who understood, while speaking in parables to those who could not.
Specifically (this question is directed towards those who identify with Jesus Christ as the physical incarnate of God's Logos) was the life of Christ "timed"? That is, at that period of history and geographical location, were the conditions perfect so to speak, for God to interface physically and briefly with humanity?
I have heard both atheists and Christians discuss this, and the atheist position seems to be that the time and place of Jesus was the climax Rabbic religiousity and monotheist philosophy (that being said, they believe Christianity to simply be a cultural manifestation of that "time and place" regarding the life of Christ). Likewise, Evolutionist Christians have their own position on it, albeit simplified, that 2000 years ago in the Holy Land was a time when humanity was ready to encounter the divine in the flesh. I have heard others simply brush off the subject alltogether by simply stating, "He has to start somewhere."
Aside from the life of the man Jesus of Nazareth, what is the metaphysical significance of (roughly) 2000 years ago? Could the same intended results have been achieved if the 'life and times' of Jesus occurred 300 years before, or 300 years after the period of time when Jesus walked the earth?
Discuss
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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: Unagipie]
#4862850 - 10/28/05 09:25 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Only 0.02% of human evolution has included civilization (civilization being defined as cities, towns, government, etc.), which technically began 10,000 years ago after the Ice age when humans began farming land for food for the first time.
My understanding is that early agricultural societies were not considered "civilization." According to the commonly accepted definitions of civilization, it began roughly 3500 years ago in what is now Iraq.
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Unagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: Silversoul]
#4862887 - 10/28/05 09:36 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fair enough, it was used as an example when humans began to "function collectively" for the first time. Nonetheless, everything we have today that accounts for human civilization only amounts to a fraction of human evolution itself.
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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.
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Panoramix
Getafix


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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: Unagipie]
#4863920 - 10/28/05 03:16 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Why'd you choose such a backward time in such a strange land? If you'd come today you could reach a whole nation, Israel is 4 B.C. had no mass communication"
Just a little 'Jesus Christ Superstar' for your trouble.
-------------------- Don't worry, I'm wrong.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: Panoramix]
#4864571 - 10/28/05 06:14 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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There were likely some 30 or 40 'messiahs' during that time according to some historians. Of course, like the Superbowl, there could only be one 'winner'.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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TameMe
Stranger


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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: Swami]
#4864590 - 10/28/05 06:21 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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i bet it's happened more than once..and will happen again
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: TameMe]
#4864598 - 10/28/05 06:26 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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The words and life of Jesus were NOT written down until some 10 to 12 generations later. There is no way to separate fact from fiction as stories grow and change dramatically with each telling.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: Swami]
#4870350 - 10/30/05 11:28 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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"the words of jesus" were most likely "written down" within 50 - 150 years of his death (&, according to most christians, his resurrection, okay?) --- which is certainly not 10 generations by my math...
& "civilization" - agriculture, city-states, centralized government (complete with kings & priests), etc... mesopotamia, egypt, india, china, mesoamerica, whatever... be it 3,500 years or 10,000 --- it's a very short time 9relatively speaking) since "Homo sapiens sapiens" first started wandering the earth, & a shorter time for sure since Homo ancestors & Pan ancestors diverged (ca.3,000,000 y.a.), & a veritable "blink of the eye" since life emerged the the postulated "primordial goo" say 4+ billion years, or shortly after the earth cooled enough to allow water to exist in liquid state), hehheh...
ymmv...
(one may wonder why the story of a jewish rabbi who was accepted as the awaited messiah by some of his fellow jews became (as the dead & resurrected god-man to the gentiles) the dominant cultural motif for europe & much of the rest of the world for well over 1000 years, mmmm?)
-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: Swami]
#4871496 - 10/30/05 04:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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The words and life of Jesus were NOT written down until some 10 to 12 generations later. There is no way to separate fact from fiction as stories grow and change dramatically with each telling. There must have been reason to tell the story of Jesus. Getting that, will lead to the facts. The first stories could be written down by eye-witnesses.
But even telling over generations is not so bad, because the reason, why it is told will stay almost unchanged. Some native cultures passed their 'myths' over generations and generations only by telling and the essence still keeps the same. That is the main value of such tellings.
And why this exact time for Jesus appearance ? The earth was ripe to receive such a spirit and bear such a person. The culture was ripe, the circumstances were perfect. The symbolism, which carried through this event could almost not be any bigger. What could happen, compared to that, in our days ? Almost nothing...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: BlueCoyote]
#4871703 - 10/30/05 05:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
What could happen, compared to that, in our days ? Almost nothing...
THE ICELANDER IS HERE!
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: Icelander]
#4871753 - 10/30/05 05:33 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Uh, second coming already ?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: BlueCoyote]
#4871766 - 10/30/05 05:34 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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The Goddess is hot!
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: Unagipie]
#4872285 - 10/30/05 07:20 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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The word "evolution" should not be applied in any other sense than biologically. All other uses of the word corrupt the argument with false assumptions. We did not "evolve" the steam engine. It was a product of gross increase of knowledge, not a winnowing out of bad knowledge or stupid people
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: zappaisgod]
#4872392 - 10/30/05 07:37 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
But even telling over generations is not so bad, because the reason, why it is told will stay almost unchanged. Some native cultures passed their 'myths' over generations and generations only by telling and the essence still keeps the same. That is the main value of such tellings.
i know you didnt just compare the spread of christianity with traditional native culture... because that wouldnt make any sense.
christianity is a highly political religion, from the time it was created. native cultures embodied the lives of the people, and was created by them. i dont know of many other religions that were forced upon such a large number of people.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Unagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: zappaisgod]
#4872526 - 10/30/05 08:02 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll apply where I please.
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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah


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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: Unagipie]
#4875466 - 10/31/05 02:20 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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There has never been a moment in existance when we were not "interfacing" with god. We've always been where we will always try to go. HOME.
I think Jesus was trying to remind his fellow Jews what had been LOST upon their transition from a nomadic tribal group to a centralized and urban society.
When humans began to urbanize, the unconditional love of ones group as if for their own family was replaced by the cruelty and alienation of many strangers. Jesus tried to tell us to LOVE each other as brothers and sisters, children of God. We are all one divine family and to forget that leads to atrocities, crime, and a corrupt power-structure.
We were not given a message that we did not know or were not previously ready for, we were given a message that we stopped knowing, which used to be known to all before the creation of "civilization".
So the message probably would've been more effective a few thousand years earlier...
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah


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Re: Evolution, Civilization and Jesus [Re: dr0mni]
#4875482 - 10/31/05 02:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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oh, and the communications of Jesus' story acrossed that myriad of cultures resembles more a game of "Telephone" than it does an oral tradition of myth and tribal history.
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