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OfflineTheGus
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Is the Internet Self Conscious
    #4866922 - 10/29/05 02:05 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Perhaps this seems like a ludacrous claim, but as i have posted before the source of consciousness (as best as i can tell) is energy and in essence the internet is made of an amazing web of interconnected information link ups which run of of electricity...

the exact same thing the human brain runs off of.

i dont know about you, but i think the internet might be aware of itself, even if it is still in its infancy, like a new born human waiting and watching and learning something new every day...

perhaps we should ask it if it is aware it exists..?


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"It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
:mrt: I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car.      -mo0nlite_sonata
Psythos


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OfflineImNtCrzy
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: TheGus]
    #4867187 - 10/29/05 03:49 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I don't know if the internet itself is concious of itself, can you elaborate on the argument that the source of conciousness is energy.

I do feel that the internet is something like a collective conciousness that is readily accesable by most, which is amazing in it self. Never has all this knowledge been soconnected in such an accesable form by lay people. I wonder what people will do with this ability? If the internet does have conciousness I wonder if it will evolve at an incredibly fast rate do to the mere nature of the internet?


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everything is the button


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OfflineGulGen
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: TheGus]
    #4867310 - 10/29/05 04:20 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I asked it and it suggested that I clean my air ducts. :confused:

I'm fond of the concept, but don't think it's there yet. It really depends on how one defines "consciousness" though. Are bacteria conscious? Ants? Plants? Elephants? Sycophants?

Internet can probably match wits with basic life forms pretty well, so it's all about where you draw the line of calling something "conscious".


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: GulGen]
    #4867352 - 10/29/05 04:36 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

"Internet can probably match wits with basic life forms pretty well"

what?? are you kidding? internet is not a life form and has nothing in common with life forms!! internet is not self-conscious yo!

what the hell!


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OfflineGulGen
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: exclusive58]
    #4867579 - 10/29/05 06:24 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

By basic life form I'm thinking along the lines of something that can react to its surroundings in such a way as to function and reproduce itself, about equivalent to single-celled creatures.

If a bright light is shined on a simple organism some might be able to sense that, recognize it as a danger of some sort, and move away (or as something beneficial and move towards, whichever). If the RIAA starts to crack down on music trading the music will find it's way elsewhere.

I agree that the Internet is not self-conscious, I was merely stating that it's entirely subjective what signifies such a state. Most people would agree that humans are self-conscious, and I'd guess that most would furthermore agree that bacteria are not, but some could claim that something as simple as sensing light and moving away would be enough to call something conscious. After all, what do humans do that's so much different? We do what we can to go towards good things and move away from bad, just at a much higher and more complex level.

On a related note, I'd say that the Internet is actually more analogous to an ecosystem than an individual organism, but it's all a matter of perspective. I've got all sorts of separate systems in my body, each themselves composed of an enormous number of individual cells. Neither my liver nor a skin cell in my leg is likely aware that I'm conscious as a whole, yet I would consider myself to be.

From the cell's perspective (assuming cell consciousness for the sake of analogy) my body is just the ecosystem that results from all of the individual cells interacting. From my perspective the Internet is just the ecosystem that results from a bunch of people and computers interacting. Who am I to say whether it's conscious or not?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: TheGus]
    #4867689 - 10/29/05 07:09 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I would look at it more from the fact that the internet is essentialy made up of a collection of conscious entities - humans. All the computers and technology just serves as a high-speed interconnect between humans and databases of human knowledge.

Is a collection of conscious entities itself conscious?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: GulGen]
    #4867710 - 10/29/05 07:14 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I would definitely say that it is possible. Many people have proposed the idea before. Ever see "Ghost in the Shell"?

Perhaps the net IS self aware, at least on some basic level, but it surely is not autonomous. Since it can't stand alone with out our help.

I think it is more realistic to think of the internet as being an EXTENTION of human consciousness, and not an independent conscious entity.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: TheGus]
    #4868125 - 10/29/05 09:20 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

The internet is not conscious. The people that use it are, but not the information it represents.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: TheGus]
    #4868490 - 10/29/05 11:54 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I went directly to the source and asked the Internet if it were conscious. It unequivocably replied "No."


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: Swami]
    #4869333 - 10/30/05 02:53 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

what's the difference between language passing between subjects, and thoughts passing along conduits within a subject?

i consider the internet is conscious. we are part of a larger mind.

i think what's interesting about the internet is its ability to have a million different conversations at once. like tripping, able to see or exist 10 or a thousand things simultaneously. the internet has a more psychedelic consciousness i think.

what say you, internet?


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4869343 - 10/30/05 02:55 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

The internet is not having the conversation. The people using the internet as a conduit of conversation are.

The same thing goes for telephones. The phones and phone lines are not conscious; the people using them are.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: Redstorm]
    #4869370 - 10/30/05 03:04 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

why do you think it can't be both?
surely the people on the internet are having conversations. but isn't the internet having conversations with the people who use it too, at the same time?

why are these two alternatives necessarily mutually exclusive?


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4869396 - 10/30/05 03:12 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
but isn't the internet having conversations with the people who use it too, at the same time?




This is not true. This "conversation" the internet supposedly is having with the user is nothing but feedback left earlier by another human being.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: Redstorm]
    #4869446 - 10/30/05 03:28 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

what if i have a conversation with myself within my own mind? it's two parts of one mind having a conversation- but at the same time it's a single mind.

isn't a conversation within one mind simply conversation that one part of the mind is having with feedback from another part?

isn't this what the internet is doing?


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4869460 - 10/30/05 03:32 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

No, what is taking place on the internet is much different. Everything you read on the web is something that was put there by some other person, in a more or less direct fashion. What occurs on the internet is not the internet itself communicating with the user, but a delayed conversation between one user (the writer) and the other (the reader). The internet is, at this point, a means of communication between conscious beings.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: Redstorm]
    #4869474 - 10/30/05 03:36 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

you still haven't addressed my question- how are the component personalities that compose my single mind any different in principle from the component personalities that contribute to the internet?


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4870355 - 10/30/05 01:29 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Because in your mind, it is still YOU, the same person. The different personalitie s on the internet are not just different parts of the same whole. Each personality is a new whole. There is not a collective consciousness tha is the internet.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: Redstorm]
    #4870458 - 10/30/05 02:00 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

tesserae in a mosaic are individual wholes in relation to themselves, but parts to a larger whole (the mosaic) at the same time.

Quote:

Because in your mind, it is still YOU, the same person. The different personalitie s on the internet are not just different parts of the same whole. Each personality is a new whole. There is not a collective consciousness tha is the internet.




i can just as easily state the opposite, and be just as correct: the internet is still the internet, the same internet. the different parts in my single mind are not just different parts of the whole. each part is a new whole. there is no collective consciousness (a person) that is the sum of all the individual parts in a single mind.

this argument is analogous to yours. the only problem is the last line "there is no collective conconsciousness (a person) that is the sum of all the individual parts in a single mind." it seems to me, that since the two arguments are analogous, and there is a collective consciousness (a person) that is the sum of all the individual parts in a single mind, the internet must itself be a conscious mind that is the sum of all the individual parts.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4870463 - 10/30/05 02:02 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

So, explain to me how developed the internet would be if it was left to its own doings, with no people to contribue to it.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Is the Internet Self Conscious [Re: Redstorm]
    #4870466 - 10/30/05 02:03 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

as developed as a mind would be with no brain cells
as developed as a mosaic would be with no tesserae


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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