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OfflineTranceharper
Psychokitty

Registered: 09/17/05
Posts: 309
Loc: Pacific Northwest USA
Last seen: 16 years, 30 days
Amanita Muscaria ... Urine , Health , and yes people do this.
    #4857417 - 10/27/05 01:29 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah well I have no idea why I am posting this other then I have seen it bumped up against many times on the internet , almost always resorting it to practice undertaken in distant times and distant places with the fly agaric . Now at this point I dont know if this belongs Mysticisim and Religion, Physical and mental wellbeing , or ethnobotanical forum, at this point I am bringing it up directly relating to Amanita Muscaria and the use of it in this manner, but I will discuss some other related things that most people really do not think about much when they have heard these tales and think to themselves " Disgusting " if the powers that be ( Mods ) have a opinon as to where this would better fit, please move it at your discresion :smile: Well since I have alot of free time right now I might as well spend some time typing this out so here we go :smile:

(Amanita Muscaria) The fly agaric so many people are fermilar with , either from storybooks, perhaps good /bad personal experience, the ever prevelant horror stories that get passed around, Or simply Walking in the forest and chancing upon this bright and gaudy colored fungus . Many know of its use as a ethnogen , a deleriant and intoxicant , in many contexts , likely as a " alowed " psychoactive fungus most everywhere these days, or perhaps its use in siberia . In the case of the consumption by native siberians, it is not unlikely that one has run across tales of " Urine drinking " in relation to this mushroom . Acounts taken by europeans who witnessed or heard discussed such a practice, and as I would guess (most) of us are influenced by the western culture , either from europe or america, which though is a cultural melting pot, still carries alot of the taboos of european ancestors . Urine drinking in most of western society is very taboo , and in the context of the practice relating to a psychoactive fungus , It probobly sounds like a completely redicules idea . Let me tell you, I was no different for many years , I was raised in america, and subjected to the same taboos , that urine entirely a waste byproduct, best expelled and forgotten, flushed, and rid of from the body and surroundings. Well some things most people do not know, when they consider the taboo practice in general, and in the context of using it extend the experience of Fly Agaric ( Amanita Muscaria ) .

Urine is not ' entirely ' a waste product , we expell urine as a way to flush excess fluid from the body , as our body can only utilize so much fluid , and excess is not needed ( and in some cases may be harmful ) so our body flushes it . Along with this fluid is expelled many things at the time , the body cannot use immediatly , these include many crucial elements for the body, vitamins, and many antibodies , these are NOT waste, but simply , cannot be absorbed and utilized as fast as fluid is being flushed from the body, so they are also expelled . In the urine of a individual can be found antibodies for illnesses that the person has recently , or is currently suffering from . As well as containing these valuable substances , urine has been used as a disinfectant widely, and a fungicide ( yeah whats this doing on shroomery ? Think Atheletes foot, Ringworm, and jockitch ) as well as being used in cleaning wounds , urine therapy has a long history of use in many parts of the world, asia ( especialy india ) , among native americans , and many other cultures , both as physical and spiritual medicine. Alright so if anyone actually wanted to know the many unspoken ( but widely known in medical and scientific community ) facts about this , the internet will gladly reveal more when googled for ( urine therapy ) in anycase , these things as well as being culturaly taboo, also detract from more conventional ( and often equally , or even less effective ) treatments that rely on the ' skills ' of a physician , and the ' magic ' of the pharmecudical preperations , that so often cost a great deal of wealth that many do not have , but think they must pay ... in anycase , that is some basic info on this , now to fly agaric

Yes Ibotenic acid will be converted in the body to muscimol , the more psychoactive , and less physicaly unpleasent constituant of these mushrooms, it is spoken by many that simply drying and refluxing in water ( hot , but below boiling ) acomplishes this , yes this is true , but the fungus was not, and is not always prepared from dried specimines , as much is spoken against the practice of eating these raw ( it is indeed physicaly unpleasent, actually 'very ' physicaly unpleasent ) there are some who consume the mushrooms this way, I did for a long time, I enjoyed the taste quite a bit actually, after the mushroom is dried , no matter how it is prepared the taste is nothing the same as a fresh raw specimine which is very delicate and delicious in flavor (this from myself who does not even like the taste of button mushrooms sliced fresh on salads ) in anycase . While " proper " ( read as, most typical and least unpleasent ) preperation of these mushrooms does most of the work of conversion from Ibotenic acid to muscimol PRIOR to injestion , resulting in a much more physicaly pleasent ( or rather " much less " unpleasent ) experience , it still may likely cause nausia . In anycase , this is common , this is not the point behind drinking urine after consumption of these , in a enviroment like siberia , one must consider at the time these acounts were taken , or in other situations, where life is harsh, and survival a challange, resources more scattered and less avalible, that fly agaric, of course sacred , was likely VERY Coveted , as to many of these people, it was the only intoxicant they knew ( fermentation with yeast was unknown to many ) these mushrooms, and the constituants contained there in that produced the mind expanding , and spiritualy uplifting ( as well as physicaly warming, in such a cold climate one must not forget this )  were VERY valuable, something that should not be wasted untill it truely was unusable . Now the proximity of many of these peoples to areas where urine drinking , for spiritual / medicinal purposes was common , is not too great a distance, and aside from in the context with fly agaric, they may very well have practiced this as a general way of keeping many of the nutrients and antibodies required , in their body, since in such a harsh enviroment, foodstuffs may not have been as common. Many have heard of Soma, and been much debate over this , It is likely I do believe . So the drinking of urine after consumption of fly agaric served , primarily to keep from wasting a valuable , coveted and sacred ( though processed by the human body ) substance , and prolong the experience, may also have had other reasoning behind it, as a practical / medicinal way of keeping up health in a bleak and harsh enviroment ( There have been people who credited survival after being lost in desolate in unforgiving places to this practice ) As well as the physical / medicinal benifits , what is urine to the person that expells it ? Who produces it ? Whos energy is in it ? The person who expells it, and the things they put in their body, in that sense, it is something that brings one very close to themselves in a spiritual sense, because it is you.

  As I said earlier in this post, when I heard about this a long time ago , I thought to myself ( That is disgusting ) but having later discovered the practice of urine therapy, and the true benifits of it, I began to take a second look at the practice in relation to fly agaric , and why had I truely said " Disgusting" to such a practice ? it is entirely cultural taboo here, something that was hard to overcome, but I did manage to . Now for my take of it , from personal experience after having tossed out my preconceptions and cultural conditioning


Yes , muscimol must be almost entirely excreted in urine . with two large fly agaric caps , I was able to recycle the muscimol twice over after the first injestion , with absolutely no ' noticable ' change in the strength of the euphoria and intoxication, what WAS noticable , even after having prepared it dried , and refluxed in water  ( resulting in little nausia, but still some ) the intoxication from the urine , was just as powerful the the second time over ( third counting original consumption of the Fly agaric brew ) With absolutely NO nausia what so ever , none , the intoxication as well as being just as powerful , also was a great deal more content, that the ' euphoria ' settled in with a very strong sense of ' myself ' my ' place in space ' and ' Where I was in my life ' , This was not euphoria like may be experienced with a great deal of opium ( that is more like a orgasam to be honest ) This is euphoria in the sense of complete contentment with myself , my life , and the world and universe that I live in . This is a practice as culturaly taboo as it probobly is to most people , should one realize the benifits of urine therapy in and of itself, I think the few that already do fancy fly agaric as a ritual intoxicant , may well find a powerful technique for experiencing this fungus, also let it be said , while urine does not taste " good " it tastes no worse then the "tea" or brewed preperation from dried fly agaric, which certinaly tastes nothing like the raw fungus ( which I would put on par with any gourmet fungus on earth, should one be willing to experience the nausia that acompanies this form of consumption )

Well there you have it , my ramblings for the time being , Mods, as I said I really had no idea where to put this , so at your discretion , place it ( or leave it stay ) where you please :smile: hope I have shed some light on this , and no I am not ashamed about this , the purpose of this is nothing that is ' shameful ' but is greatly misunderstood in western society -Tranceharper


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Meow ===^{o_o}^===


Edited by Tranceharper (10/27/05 01:30 AM)


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: Amanita Muscaria ... Urine , Health , and yes people do this. [Re: Tranceharper]
    #4857526 - 10/27/05 01:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i really dont think i could drink my own piss no matter what.


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OfflineTranceharper
Psychokitty

Registered: 09/17/05
Posts: 309
Loc: Pacific Northwest USA
Last seen: 16 years, 30 days
Re: Amanita Muscaria ... Urine , Health , and yes people do this. [Re: DeathCompany]
    #4857587 - 10/27/05 02:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I dident think so either , being terribly ill and desperate to feel better can often result in some decisions one wouldent typicaly consider , as I said it isent pleasent , but many medicines are not -Tranceharper


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Meow ===^{o_o}^===


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
Re: Amanita Muscaria ... Urine , Health , and yes people do this. [Re: Tranceharper]
    #4857605 - 10/27/05 02:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

This isn't something I'll ever be doing... but as gross as it sounds, it's hard to ignore that it probably tastes less disgusting than ayahuasca and maybe even pedro juice. Hehe...


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineTranceharper
Psychokitty

Registered: 09/17/05
Posts: 309
Loc: Pacific Northwest USA
Last seen: 16 years, 30 days
Re: Amanita Muscaria ... Urine , Health , and yes people do this. [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #4857705 - 10/27/05 02:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You forgot raw papaver somniferum pods in that short list elgr ^_- -Tranceharper


--------------------
Meow ===^{o_o}^===


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Posts: 7,752
Re: Amanita Muscaria ... Urine , Health , and yes people do this. [Re: Tranceharper]
    #4857901 - 10/27/05 03:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Raw pods? I was going for liquids but... hehe. You mean pod tea? I dunno man, it's gross but nothing compared to the other two (my ayahuasca opinion based on smell alone, heh). I think pod tea might have a closer battle with urine than the others. :smile:


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineTranceharper
Psychokitty

Registered: 09/17/05
Posts: 309
Loc: Pacific Northwest USA
Last seen: 16 years, 30 days
Re: Amanita Muscaria ... Urine , Health , and yes people do this. [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #4857944 - 10/27/05 03:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

No I am speaking of trying to get down ' and keep down ' 1-2 dozen large somniferum pods , the tea goes down quick, the pods do not, or so a little raven told me , as it said " Nevermore (vomit ) atleast not untill it gets that itch under its feathers " -Tranceharper


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Meow ===^{o_o}^===


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Amanita Muscaria ... Urine , Health , and yes people do this. [Re: Tranceharper]
    #4858248 - 10/27/05 06:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i think it might be possible to manipulate the taste of urine by maintaining a certain diet...


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OfflineTinkal
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Re: Amanita Muscaria ... Urine , Health , and yes people do this. [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4858271 - 10/27/05 06:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I could drink my urine. Remember that many people eat McDonnalds.


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OfflineTheido
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Re: Amanita Muscaria ... Urine , Health , and yes people do this. [Re: Tinkal]
    #4858334 - 10/27/05 08:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I remember reading from someplace that it is possible to use some kind of ice extraction on the urine to remove most of the liquid excrement...


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