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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Crisis of Modern Rebellion
    #4848912 - 10/25/05 04:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What is worth rebelling against?
Who/What is an authentic rebel?
Can matching the definition, not mean conforming to it?

Is it harder or easier to be a rebel in today's society?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: raytrace]
    #4848977 - 10/25/05 04:33 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Does rebellion do any good?
Is it better to change it from the inside, peacefully?
It's easier to be a rebel in today's society methinks


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: Shroomism]
    #4849098 - 10/25/05 05:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

sure it's easier if it's sponsored by Levis


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: raytrace]
    #4849356 - 10/25/05 08:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

There is nothing worth rebelling against. America is the beacon of all that is good and descent. If you are a rebel in todays society, it is purely for egotistical reasons based on your inability to cope with the beauty of our nation. You desire to be different. Don't worry, you'll grow out of it.


--------------------
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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
Now with ExtraVaganza!?

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 1,677
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Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: looner2]
    #4849364 - 10/25/05 08:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
There is nothing worth rebelling against. America is the beacon of all that is good and descent.




I find that typo amusing and accurate.

Counterculture has become so mainstream that the only way to be different is to be normal, thus defeating the purpose. I am aware that "normal" is a highly subjective term.


--------------------

Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah...


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: looner2]
    #4849456 - 10/25/05 10:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

America is the beacon of all that is good and descent, namely consume and let die.


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: looner2]
    #4849914 - 10/25/05 01:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup: Blind nationalism, that's the way to ensure the best future.  Now that we've plumbed the depths of your critical thinking skills, let's try a quote from someone more contemplative...

"There have always been men of intelligence who went on strike, in protest and despair, but they did not know the meaning of their action. The man who retires from public life, to think, but not to share his thoughts-the man who chooses to spend his years in the obscurity of menial employment, keeping to himself the fire of his mind, never giving it form, expression or reality, refusing to bring it into a world he despises-the man who is defeated by revulsion, the man who renounces before he has started, the man who gives up rather than give in, the man who functions at a fraction of his capacity, disarmed by his longing for an ideal he has not found-they are on strike, on strike against unreason, on strike against your world and your values... in the darkness of their hopeless indignation, which is righteous... as rebels who never learned the object of their rebellion, as lovers who never discovered their love."

What does it mean Looner?


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4850121 - 10/25/05 02:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
:thumbup: Blind nationalism, that's the way to ensure the best future.  Now that we've plumbed the depths of your critical thinking skills, let's try a quote from someone more contemplative...




Blind nationalism? The angst-filled buzzwords are so effective at conveying a point :rolleyes:

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
"There have always been men of intelligence who went on strike, in protest and despair, but they did not know the meaning of their action. The man who retires from public life, to think, but not to share his thoughts-the man who chooses to spend his years in the obscurity of menial employment, keeping to himself the fire of his mind, never giving it form, expression or reality, refusing to bring it into a world he despises-the man who is defeated by revulsion, the man who renounces before he has started, the man who gives up rather than give in, the man who functions at a fraction of his capacity, disarmed by his longing for an ideal he has not found-they are on strike, on strike against unreason, on strike against your world and your values... in the darkness of their hopeless indignation, which is righteous... as rebels who never learned the object of their rebellion, as lovers who never discovered their love."

What does it mean Looner?




It means some find comfort in being pathetic turds because their failed, ineffective, false, and unworkable idealism has stifled all hope in them rising up and conquering reality.


--------------------
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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: raytrace]
    #4850123 - 10/25/05 02:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

raytrace said:
America is the beacon of all that is good and descent, namely consume and let die.




My point?


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: looner2]
    #4850600 - 10/25/05 04:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

These days (and maybe it's always been like this) rebellion only happens in the liminal zones. It's a transition. Temporary. Fleeting.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: raytrace]
    #4850610 - 10/25/05 04:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

raytrace said:
What is worth rebelling against?
Who/What is an authentic rebel?
Can matching the definition, not mean conforming to it?

Is it harder or easier to be a rebel in today's society?




The illusion of self..
self..
yes..

harder and easier..
just like going down on the globe, could be walking up a hillside.. :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: raytrace]
    #4850618 - 10/25/05 04:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

There are things about modern society which I oppose. I'm not sure whether opposition counts as rebellion.


--------------------


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OfflineTameMe
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Registered: 10/24/05
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Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: looner2]
    #4850638 - 10/25/05 04:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
There is nothing worth rebelling against. America is the beacon of all that is good and descent. If you are a rebel in todays society, it is purely for egotistical reasons based on your inability to cope with the beauty of our nation. You desire to be different. Don't worry, you'll grow out of it.




It is pretty egotistical to say, "everyone who rebels is doign so for egotistical reasons, I think our society is beautiful...and you are just wrong." Maybe your local situation there is great...but this society is far from reaching its potential.


Edited by TameMe (10/25/05 04:35 PM)


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 8 years, 14 hours
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: TameMe]
    #4850752 - 10/25/05 05:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

our society may be beautiful, for us....
but those who make it possible, have another storey.
the first world is built on the second and third worlds.

equalize. thank you.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: BleaK]
    #4850794 - 10/25/05 05:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Good point. Should we be thankful for our lives at the expense of others...or feel disgust? I feel both...becuase I am living here now...if I only felt disgust I would leave. My disgust is there to hold opposition and rebel....hoping that things will get better.


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
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Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: looner2]
    #4850997 - 10/25/05 06:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Blind nationalism?



Without a doubt. It seems from your opinions, like the majority of Americans, that you have led an insular existence.

Quote:

The angst-filled buzzwords are so effective at conveying a point



Where do you get angst filled? Where are the buzzwords?

Quote:

It means some find comfort in being pathetic turds because their failed, ineffective, false, and unworkable idealism has stifled all hope in them rising up and conquering reality.



Wrong! Thanks for playing along.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineDarcho
PhysicallyDetermined

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 426
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4851251 - 10/25/05 07:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Rebellion no longer exists, there is only terrorism!  :whoa:

But, please, do not be so naive as to equate "Terrorism" with  Islamic fundamentalism, and please do not infer "death and destruction" from it either.

Something you might want to check into, is a short book by Jean Baudrillard called The Spirit of Terrorism.

As for America being "the beacon of all that is good and descent," well "good" and "descent" are vague terms to begin with.  America may be all sparkly and shiny, but unfortunately "not all that glitters is gold," and sometimes what may appear to initially be gold, turns out, upon further inspection, to be nothing but pyrite (a.k.a.  "Fool's Gold").


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: raytrace]
    #4851272 - 10/25/05 07:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Americans have always had a hardon for rebellion. It's what they were founded on, and it's part of all kinds of american fiction.

In the past, people valued things like loyalty, but in the US, being the underdog is the equivelant to being right. Whenever you hear someone fight for something, they always try and paint themselves as a minority that is being oppressed. I hear Christian fundamentalists talking about how they're being wiped out by a culture that values godlessness... even though the president and all kinds of huge politicians are born again, not to mention the fact that there are references to god right on the money and in the constitution.

Your values aren't really the important thing, it's whether or not you're fighting the status quo, because popular opinion is assumed wrong, and being a unique individual is more important than being good.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4851497 - 10/25/05 08:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Quote:

looner2 said:
Blind nationalism?



Without a doubt. It seems from your opinions, like the majority of Americans, that you have led an insular existence.




Ahhh, sweeping condemnations of the "majority"! You rebel YOU! Lead us from tyranny! What is the plan oh exalted visionary!?

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Where do you get angst filled? Where are the buzzwords?




The ones I quoted you on. Don't worry, I'm sure i'll hear facist, nazi, hitler, genocide...etc in the coming posts. They are all so illuminating.

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Wrong! Thanks for playing along.




Awww. Shucks. I guess it too much to ask what the artsy quote meant huh?


--------------------
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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: TameMe]
    #4851502 - 10/25/05 08:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TameMe said:
Quote:

looner2 said:
There is nothing worth rebelling against. America is the beacon of all that is good and descent. If you are a rebel in todays society, it is purely for egotistical reasons based on your inability to cope with the beauty of our nation. You desire to be different. Don't worry, you'll grow out of it.




It is pretty egotistical to say, "everyone who rebels is doign so for egotistical reasons, I think our society is beautiful...and you are just wrong." Maybe your local situation there is great...but this society is far from reaching its potential.




Who says we need to stop growth? If you want to be a rebel, then rebel against the institution, you can't dare work within it, you must...

SMASH THE SYSTEM!!


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: looner2]
    #4851876 - 10/25/05 10:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Ahhh, sweeping condemnations of the "majority"! You rebel YOU! Lead us from tyranny! What is the plan oh exalted visionary!?



Huh? My comment is in relation to your blind nationalism. Try to follow along.

Quote:

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Where do you get angst filled? Where are the buzzwords?




The ones I quoted you on.



Well, you're going to have to learn common usages of words such as angst and buzzword because you aren't making sense.

Quote:

Awww. Shucks. I guess it too much to ask what the artsy quote meant huh?



You can't even use the terms angst and buzzword properly, why should I bother?


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4851914 - 10/25/05 10:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Huh? My comment is in relation to your blind nationalism. Try to follow along.




I suggest you do the same.

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Well, you're going to have to learn common usages of words such as angst and buzzword because you aren't making sense.




Buzzword: A stylish or trendy word or phrase.

Not difficult!

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
You can't even use the terms angst and buzzword properly, why should I bother?




Don't bother. You don't say much and when you do its nothing but ad hominems. What is it that you say? Thanks for playing!


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
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Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: looner2]
    #4851951 - 10/25/05 10:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So you are not able to explain why any terms I used are angst ridden or buzzwords, nor can you understand the gist of the quote. Thanks for the admission (without intention).


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4851997 - 10/25/05 10:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
So you are not able to explain why any terms I used are angst ridden or buzzwords, nor can you understand the gist of the quote. Thanks for the admission (without intention).




I gave you the gist of the quote, but you refuse to enlighten me to its meaning. Please, we all want to know. I want to be a rebel too!

But to play fair, you are angst ridden because I'm guessing you an adult, but still haven't grown up. Still can't get passed that teenage rebellion stage? You will one day.


--------------------
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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: looner2]
    #4852349 - 10/25/05 11:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
I gave you the gist of the quote,



No you didn't.

Quote:

but you refuse to enlighten me to its meaning. Please, we all want to know. I want to be a rebel too!



The meaning is there, within the words.

Quote:

But to play fair, you are angst ridden



You stated, 'angst-filled buzzwords,' not the same thing. Besides, you are wrong about me as well.

Quote:

because I'm guessing you an adult, but still haven't grown up.



Does 'growing up' entail having blind nationalism and a view that violence is the primary means of conducting oneself in foreign relations? Well then if that is your definition, I haven't grown up.

Quote:

Still can't get passed that teenage rebellion stage? You will one day.



A word of advice, don't seek a career in counseling, your instincts are all wrong for it, your lack of insight is amazing. Because you disagree with me, you try to make yourself feel superior by slapping the label of 'teenage rebellion' on what is in fact wisdom born of experience in criminal justice, travel, meeting various people from many different countries and evolving views that come from an examined life. I have risen past the stage of desire to impose my version of 'the right way to live' upon others by physically coercive or violent means. I have risen past the myopic view that the U.S. is always right and the beacon of freedom to the rest of the world (it's really NOT viewed that way by most of the world anymore). I can only hope that you will seek growth and come to shed ill conceived concepts as others have done. In other words, seek to rebel against following your own mental/behavioral reflexes (be they from religious or nationalistic experiences and schooling, racial thinking or prior self programming), learn to question why you believe what you believe.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Crisis of Modern Rebellion [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4852454 - 10/25/05 11:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
A word of advice, don't seek a career in counseling, your instincts are all wrong for it, your lack of insight is amazing. Because you disagree with me, you try to make yourself feel superior by slapping the label of 'teenage rebellion' on what is in fact wisdom born of experience in criminal justice, travel, meeting various people from many different countries and evolving views that come from an examined life. I have risen past the stage of desire to impose my version of 'the right way to live' upon others by physically coercive or violent means. I have risen past the myopic view that the U.S. is always right and the beacon of freedom to the rest of the world (it's really NOT viewed that way by most of the world anymore). I can only hope that you will seek growth and come to shed ill conceived concepts as others have done. In other words, seek to rebel against following your own mental/behavioral reflexes (be they from religious or nationalistic experiences and schooling, racial thinking or prior self programming), learn to question why you believe what you believe.




Thanks for the psychoanalysis. It's cute.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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