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daimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 hour
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: laotzu]
#4844633 - 10/24/05 04:00 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
laotzu said: this...doesn't belong in the culinary arts forum
Move to OTD...
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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afoaf
CEO DBK?


Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: daimyo]
#4845023 - 10/24/05 09:56 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have no objection to keeping this here.
there's nothing wrong with honest debate about nutrition and nutritional propaganda.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
Edited by afoaf (10/24/05 12:01 PM)
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LiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Organic]
#4845349 - 10/24/05 11:21 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Organic said: Curious...did you check the validity of anything on that list?
Quote:
26. Most common cause of death in the United States: heart attack. risk of death from heart attack by average American man: 50 percent. Risk of death from heart attack by an average American man consuming a pure vegetarian diet: 4 percent
No. No. No.
Cancer is the most common cause of death in the US.
gawd you guys are BOTH WRONG.
It's not HEART ATTACKS and it's not CANCER. It's heart DISEASE. This includes Congenital heart failure, complications from arythmia, and cardio myopathy. get yer medical facts straight...
-------------------- "Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers. Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts. Who smokes tha blunts? We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back
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Retired
Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 635
Last seen: 12 years, 11 days
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: LiquidSmoke]
#4845461 - 10/24/05 11:48 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LiquidSmoke said: It's not a myth that the majority of strict vegetarians are at risk of vitamin deficiencies.
Things like vitamin B 12 you can only find trace amounts in vegetables, and the primary source for it is red meats and egg. But they have supplemented grains and cereals with it.
But there are still numerous hospital cases where patients suffering from pernicious anemia end up being strict vegetarians. It's a medical fact.
Myth if you are a real vegi then you know how to eat. You do not need to take supplements! B12 my ass if you eat an ounce of mushrooms(gourmet) that is all the B12 you need for quite some time. I have been a vegi since elementary school and I am in great health.
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Organic
Lloyd

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 5,774
Loc: Overlook
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: LiquidSmoke]
#4845606 - 10/24/05 12:26 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks for the correction...I read somewhere that Heart Disease and Cancer switched 1 and 2...guess not. Checked the CDC site and you're right.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: LiquidSmoke]
#4845668 - 10/24/05 12:47 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Heart disease.. that's what I meant.
SO do you know what the number one cause of heart disease is?
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Shroomism]
#4845678 - 10/24/05 12:52 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Heart disease.. that's what I meant.
SO do you know what the number one cause of heart disease is?
WHAT?
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Shroomism]
#4845703 - 10/24/05 01:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Frankly, the argument about starving people is bullshit. There's more than enough food to feed everyone. It's just a problem of distribution. And there's no fucking way that all the trees in the US are going to be gone in 50 years. This isn't Easter Island. BTW, fish are animals too, you sushi-eating murderer.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?


Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Silversoul]
#4845725 - 10/24/05 01:09 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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the whole list is a joke, except for 1 point.
1. chemicals in meat are bad.
end of list.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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it stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Shroomism]
#4845895 - 10/24/05 01:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: SO do you know what the number one cause of heart disease is?
cigs?
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Or McDonald's.. that one is still up for grabs.
So if distribution is the problem, why don't we send some food?
Considering we are the biggest consumers and trash makers in the world.
And I suppose no one opposes the clear-cutting of the Amazon Rainforest for the cattle industry either. The Earth's Lung they call it. You know, the origin of 80% of our food, 50% of the plant, insect and animal species on Earth, and 1/5th of the Earth's fresh water.
Consumption of red meat is definitely linked to Ischematic Heart Disease
Here's a couple more reasons:
The Oxford Vegetarian Study: An Overview, Appleby et al. 1999, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 70, 525S: A 16-year study of 6000 vegetarians and 5000 non-vegetarians in the UK found that the vegetarians generally had lower LDL cholesterol levels and lower death rates for each of the mortality endpoints studied.
Health Implications of Mediterranean Diets in Light of Contemporary Knowledge II , Kushi et al. 1995, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 61, 1416S: Evidence strongly suggests that a high intake of plant-based foods, and a low intake of animal products contributes to the excellent health of Mediterranean populations. The high consumption of red meat in Western diets is associated with increased risks of heart disease, some cancers, and urinary calcium losses likely to contribute to osteoporosis.
Dietary Determinants of Ischaemic Heart Disease in Health Conscious Individuals, Mann et al. 1997, Heart, 78, 450: The physical condition and diets of nearly 11,000 health-conscious men and women, both vegetarian and non-vegetarian, were followed for an average of 13.3 years to investigate dietary determinants of ischaemic heart disease. It was found that saturated animal fat and cholesterol are the primary contributors to ischaemic heart disease.
Study Shows Vegetarian Populations Have Lower Rates of Hypertension, Berkow & Barnard 2005, Nutrition Reviews: A scientific review shows that high blood pressure can be reduced with diet changes, especially a vegetarian diet. The report analyzes the results of published studies and concludes that vegetarian populations have lower rates of hypertension, ?the silent killer.?
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Rustifer
prestige worldwide


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 7,071
Loc: Central Texas
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Shroomism]
#4846224 - 10/24/05 03:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Potatoes create a cancer causing chemical if heated over 425 degrees.
Take that for your healthy veggies!
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Rustifer]
#4846231 - 10/24/05 03:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I eat 'em raw
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Shroomism]
#4846252 - 10/24/05 03:33 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said:
The Oxford Vegetarian Study: An Overview, Appleby et al. 1999, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 70, 525S: A 16-year study of 6000 vegetarians and 5000 non-vegetarians in the UK found that the vegetarians generally had lower LDL cholesterol levels and lower death rates for each of the mortality endpoints studied.
Health Implications of Mediterranean Diets in Light of Contemporary Knowledge II , Kushi et al. 1995, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 61, 1416S: Evidence strongly suggests that a high intake of plant-based foods, and a low intake of animal products contributes to the excellent health of Mediterranean populations. The high consumption of red meat in Western diets is associated with increased risks of heart disease, some cancers, and urinary calcium losses likely to contribute to osteoporosis.
Dietary Determinants of Ischaemic Heart Disease in Health Conscious Individuals, Mann et al. 1997, Heart, 78, 450: The physical condition and diets of nearly 11,000 health-conscious men and women, both vegetarian and non-vegetarian, were followed for an average of 13.3 years to investigate dietary determinants of ischaemic heart disease. It was found that saturated animal fat and cholesterol are the primary contributors to ischaemic heart disease.
Study Shows Vegetarian Populations Have Lower Rates of Hypertension, Berkow & Barnard 2005, Nutrition Reviews: A scientific review shows that high blood pressure can be reduced with diet changes, especially a vegetarian diet. The report analyzes the results of published studies and concludes that vegetarian populations have lower rates of hypertension, ?the silent killer.?
Sigh... critical thinking time?
There is a stark contrast between vegetarians and non-vegetarians that doesn't pertain to meat. Just as there is a stark contrast between the health conscious and non-health conscious. People usually follow into each one of those categories and then vary between them across a spectrum.
When you compare vegetarians to non-vegetarians, what are you exactly comparing?
Vegetarians are for the most part are health conscious individuals. This means that they won't stuff their face full of candy bars. This means that they are more likely to exercise. This means that they will be eating lots of vegetables and fruit, which helps ward off disease and cancer.
The opposite of a health conscious vegetarian is not a health conscious non-vegetarian, however. Most omnivores in our society don't care about nutrition. Most are fat. Most don't exercise, and won't take the time to eat healthy, which means its donuts for breakfast, mcdonalds for lunch, and pancakes for dinner. Look they ate meat!
The bottom line is you can be a health conscious omnivore and reap health benefits that meet and EXCEED that of vegetarians. Eating lots of vegetables, fruits, meat, and good fats is a healthy way to live and doesn't exclude meat.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Rustifer
prestige worldwide


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 7,071
Loc: Central Texas
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Shroomism]
#4846296 - 10/24/05 03:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Damn, you're the first vegitarian I've met that's been able to combat all my attacks, the tires, the potatoes. They always work with the rich white ladies I over hear talking about how vegan they are, walking out of thier SUV's.
Raw potatoes are pretty nasty, how do you eat them? They're alright with a lot of salt on them.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Rustifer]
#4846346 - 10/24/05 03:52 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Actually, I'm not a vegetarian. I still eat meat (beef, chicken, pork) when it is available and I am hungry, but I usually don't feel very good afterwards. But I do eat a shitload of raw fish (sushi) and fruit. I don't actually even eat potatoes that often.. my main concern is eating it skin and all. If I cook a potato, ideally it would be with a pressure cooker. But I have eaten them raw and it is pretty nasty.. one of the few vegetables that does need to be cooked a little to make it more palatable. The key is not peeling the skin off of potatoes, cucumbers, carrots, etc.. as that is where most of the vitamins are. And in the case of potatoes, the alkaline skin balances the almost pure starch of the potato.
Looner you do make a good point. A health conscious meat eater is more likely to be healthy than a normal meat eater. I'm not even saying to not eat meat, I'm just saying Americans in general eat so fucking much of it, it's rediculous. Of course a diet low in fat and high in fiber with lots of fruits and vegetables and grains will keep someone healthy, and if you make a conscious choice to eat lean meat, free of chemicals.. you'll be straight. But it's all about moderation isn't it?
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Rustifer
prestige worldwide


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 7,071
Loc: Central Texas
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Shroomism]
#4846357 - 10/24/05 03:55 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ah well then you're just as vegitarian as I am. I mostly eat vegitables, mainly because I'm dirt poor, partly because of my health. But there's nothing like a nice steak or some fish when I get the extera money.
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LiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
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Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Shroomism]
#4846415 - 10/24/05 04:05 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said:
SO do you know what the number one cause of heart disease is?
Age.
Of course you can add other correlations, but i'm not gonna thread needles here.
All those studies you posted are basically stating obvious facts that people have known for hundreds of years. Meat has more fat and cholesterol than veggies. They still taste better...
-------------------- "Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers. Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts. Who smokes tha blunts? We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back
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LiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Retired]
#4846757 - 10/24/05 05:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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only mushrooms grown from animal compost have adaquate b12 levels.
either that or unwashed plants which have vitamin synthesizing bacteria on them.
ewww nasty man!!!!
-------------------- "Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers. Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts. Who smokes tha blunts? We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: 28 reasons not to eat meat [Re: Shroomism]
#4848025 - 10/24/05 10:34 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: So if distribution is the problem, why don't we send some food?
If only it were that simple. The problem isn't just a lack of access to food, but rather a lack of money with which to buy food. In short, the problem is poverty. I'm currently writing a book on how to solve that problem, but it's too complicated to go into here.
Quote:
And I suppose no one opposes the clear-cutting of the Amazon Rainforest for the cattle industry either. The Earth's Lung they call it. You know, the origin of 80% of our food, 50% of the plant, insect and animal species on Earth, and 1/5th of the Earth's fresh water.
I won't argue with that. But that's just a reason not to eat beef. It has nothing to do with meat itself. Plus, many of the farmers are forced to move into rainforest area not by a scarcity of land, but by a scarcity of unowned land. Land speculation is a huge problem in Brazil(as in most countries), and is yet another issue that will addressed in my book.
Quote:
Consumption of red meat is definitely linked to Ischematic Heart Disease
Correction: Overconsumption of red meat is linked to heart disease. All things in moderation, my friend.
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