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OfflineMoxemerald
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4819202 - 10/18/05 12:44 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"For example, tiredness, apathy, anxiety, social anxiety."

Self-absorption is the seedling that grew into this tree of problems.

I will try to break it down in a most simple way.

- Thoughts are focused on the self. This inevitably leads to thinking about how you come across to others. Eventually it gets to compulsive because of constant thinking about it (when certain actions or thoughts are constantly repeated it becomes almost like the effect of darkening the same line over and over on a peice of paper. Thoughts will naturally start doing it more (is the case with ocd)).

-Anyway then it doesnt even have to be depressing thoughts but the more intensely you critisize yourself the more dissatisfied you may get with it. This leads to apathy because the more you seem to tell yourself how hard your trying to get it right the more you fail. You just end up giving up.

- So you may just spare yourself the trouble of interacting with people because you know itll just get you down.

-This eventually starts to circumvent the other aspects of your life and you may never feel liek trying at anything at all and develop a mentallity almost parallel to exestentialism and become completely apathetic.

This may seem a little extreme but I had two close friends whom I watched travel this path.


Anyways, I used to be somewhat depressed and had some negative thought loops and I found that Kava does a good job in 'rewiring' your thought patterns. I just ordered it from a trusted online vendor and used it for about a week every morning and night (drink a glass).

It's not addictive and isn't really bad for you (although it's not too nice on the liver, but that may be from extended use). It makes u pretty content and relaxes your muscles. You'll probably notice a lot less worrying aswell.

It's been a while since I've used it and I could say that it pretty much cured me of any anxiety. What's the harm, give it a shot.

EDIT- I just read mjf's last post. I would stay away from self-help shit. I think it will just end up getting you more and more critical of yourself. The best thing you can do without taking any substance is get your mind off yourself. Read something your interested in. Learn it and talk about it with somebody. Also just go out and talk to people and get over have a grand old time and laugh. It's easier said then done and takes a deal of will power but it's definitly achievable.


Edited by Moxemerald (10/18/05 12:53 AM)


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: Moxemerald]
    #4819262 - 10/18/05 01:00 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i've had very long deep drepressive times when all i thought of was death and me being worthless...i felt nervous around my closest friends and even family....

what helped me i think was music and reading.

therapy has been proven to work just as well if not better than meds.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: Moxemerald]
    #4819263 - 10/18/05 01:01 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I suggest reading fiction.


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Offlineart
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4821715 - 10/18/05 05:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

moxemerald,
That may be the case with some people, but i never felt like anything you described. I often felt terrible for no reason. I do find some truth to your theory. I would sometimes get in that loop when i came across problems later on in my life. Contrary to what everyone else has been saying, I think i do have a chemical imbalance in my brain, and that is what causes me to get in those cycles. Even when i was real young there were times were i would feel sad for no reason, i no for a fact i thought that deeply at so young of an age.

If depression is not caused by a chemical imbalance, then why do SSRI's work?


I have heard about kava but i don't really know much about it. That really sounds interesting. Can you buy it in stores like you can salvia? How much does it intoxicate you? Can you drive, or think coherently while on it? Are you sure it is not addicting at all? Can extended use cause an addiction?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4821800 - 10/18/05 05:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

art, you are getting your cause and effect mixed up.

Ok, what we KNOW is that there are (according to the US government) aprox. 19% of Americans which feel an incredible emotion not inducive to functioning in our society. What we dont KNOW is the cause.

Now just because one certain thing helps alleviate the undesired EFFECT, doesnt mean that it is directly countering the CAUSE.

In fact, i would not be asking the question you did, but asking this question: "If the cause of depression is known, why can't we counter that cause? and if SSRI's help, yet do not cure the problem, why do we keep throwing SSRI's at people?

"insanity is doing the exact same thing and expecting different results" -Einstein

when we are talking about depression, we are dealing with a persons MIND. If you honestly think that all your actions are made and decided by chemicals in your brain randomly swapping over the threshold of synapses, then you have really given up on life. This view of existence gives way to a "chemical destiny" which absolves you of any responsibility for your actions and wellbeing.
Now since Depression affects the mind of a person, this would make it an intrinsic problem, not an extrinsic. the depression comes from within your mind, and you are the only one who has control over your mind.

A problem caused by something intrinsic can be abated by something extrinsic, but only cured by something which is intrinsic as well.

Do you really think that you are somehow genetically predisposed to enjoy life less than everyone else?


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Offlineart
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4822263 - 10/18/05 07:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

ok, so you think using SSRI's to treat depression is bad, but you have yet to give me an alternative. Like I said, i am not on any SSRI's and still feeling like shit, so i would be happy to give any suggestions a try.

Just because SSRI's don't cure depression does not make them useless, they help many people be able to live normal lives. So what about the people who don't have the time/energy to overcome depression with out any meds?


I am assuming you have seen someone on drugs, don't drugs affect your brain, causing you to act differently? Isn't depression the same way? Just look at someone on MDMA, and someone who is depressed. Aren't the chemicals causing them to act a certain way. Just because chemicals in your brain have the ability to change someones personality does not mean that a person has non control over their actions.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that someone might have a chemical imbalance in their brain? Why is depression often seen to be genetic. It turns out my mom had depression.....I did not find out about it until AFTER i started taking the SSRI's. There are so many cases of young kids with depression, doctors are able to find this before the kids even know what depression is. Going back to your first posts, i am positive that i did not get depressed because of my outlook on life. I don't care what anyone BELIEVES, i know myself.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4823019 - 10/18/05 10:07 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Im not here to tell you what is good or bad. Im not here to point fingers.
All i want to do is offer an alternate view on this.

My alternative to taking SSRI's? change your grasp on the world. expand on personal philosophies, add and subtract from them. Find out what it is you want from life. Find out why you havent gotten that.




Yes, i have seen someone on drugs. Yes drugs affect your brain... so does breathing oxygen.


I have yet to find any scientific proof that depression is genetic, only statistics showing that x amount of mother and son have it or so on. My view has a different answer than genetics: your philosophy/worldview. Who taught the majority of it to you? your parents.

How do you have an "illness" which affects your behaviour, mood, and thoughts and not know about it? Do you mean you didnt have a name to give it? or you were just hopping along one day and realized "it isnt MY fault im miserable, i just have a genetic predisposition to social dysfunction!".


Drugs are drugs. Taking them to make you "feel mo better" is doing the exact same thing the heroin and crack junkies do. Im not saying that being a junkie is a bad or a good thing. They take drugs to forget about their problems, get rid of that nagging depression.

Also, how does one set the line for what happiness is. After all, isnt depression relative? Couldnt all of us be happier? more aware? more enlightened? more knowledgable? more enthused? have more energy?
Where do you draw the line? I can think of a few drugs that can actually make you feel like all of the above.
Are you measuring your own happiness to other peoples supposed happiness? what makes you think that depression ISNT a normal thing? that it isnt something every person has to overcome, yet some didnt make it over the fence? What makes you think that you are entitled to the easy yet fruitless path to happiness?
Someone told you that you were handicapped, and you believed them....


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OfflineMoxemerald
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Registered: 08/22/04
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4824810 - 10/19/05 12:12 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I agree completely with psiolcyberin. The alternative to any substance would be self discipline. You just have to think outside the box and train your mind to rewire itself that way.

" How much does it intoxicate you? Can you drive, or think coherently while on it? Are you sure it is not addicting at all? Can extended use cause an addiction? "

It is not addictive. The effects are very subtle; so subtle in fact, that I was drinking a nice glass in the morning before classes. It helps you focus a little more and your mind is a little bit calmer.

If you cannot find any solace without taking any substances I would reccomend trying this out. You can buy it legally liek you would buy salvia. I just ordered it.


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Offlineart
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: Moxemerald]
    #4825495 - 10/19/05 02:56 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i think the biggest issue is whether or not depression is caused by a chemical imbalance. So if depression is caused by something external, then why do SSRI's work?

I still can't figure out why the idea of people with a chemical imbalance in their brain is so unusual. Isn't that similar to Leukimia? I think it is leukimia, where people will not be able to produce white blood cells, or something like that.


Do you guys feel the same way about SSRI's as other drugs?



How am i supposed to change my outlook on life? I don't think i have a problem with my view on my life. I am actully proud of my view on life. Can changing your outlook on life help with anxiety, or any other symptoms of depression?


I am also not trying to tell you what is good or bad, i appreciate your views and comments. Sorry if i might seem like i am pointing fingers, or getting angry. I really am interested in understanding your theory on this.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4825535 - 10/19/05 03:04 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I have real hard time understanding you. Some of your statements seem pretty contradictory.

Here is what I hear you saying....

I have a good view on life...
I couldn't tell I was depressed...
I took SSRI's and they affected my brain and made me feel different...
So I must have been depressed.

and also...
Quote:

So if depression is caused by something external, then why do SSRI's work?




I really don't understand that question. We have been saying all along that depression is intrinsic. No one knows the CAUSE of depression. Ok?


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Offlineart
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4826979 - 10/19/05 08:48 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i thought you meant that depression was caused by things like your view on life, or problems in your life; I think depression is also caused by a chemical imbalance. So if depression is not caused by a chemical imbalance, then my question is why does medicine meant for fixing a chemical imbalance help people (myself included).


what is so contradictory about that? I do think i have a good view on life. I still had many symptoms of depression. My view on life hasn't seemed to have any impact on my feelings. I know people who have terrible outlooks on life who are not depressed. I did not know i was depressed because of my ignorance on the issue; i knew that i felt sad, tired, anxious, ect. but i did not know that would be classified as depression. It was not until i started taking the lexapro that i realised what life was meant to feel like, remember the depression formed over a long period of time, at a point in my life in which i was constantly changing. I thought all of my feelings were normal, as stupid as that seems.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4827023 - 10/19/05 08:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Don't use a word if you don't know what it means.

The drug....will affect you...no matter if you are depressed or not....right?

Say you were healthy (meaning your brain was in a good balance of chemicals) wouldn't the drug still affect you?

Your feelings are directly tied to your thoughts (your view on life). You should take a psychology class...I think you would like it.

How could you be ignorant about how you feel? Could you seriously not tell if it was good or bad? Lets say you have all the symptoms of a depressed person...but you think you feel fine....then guess what....you do feel fine.

If you didn't know that you felt depressed but you felt sad, tired, and anxious...then you knew something was wrong...you just didnt' know that was depression.

Did you know that cognitive behavioral therapy (go look it up) is proven to work just as well as meds....and in my opinion..better...because you aren't relying on somethign artificial and you have lasting change....not just an illusion.


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InvisibleBlu Spore
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4827434 - 10/19/05 10:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

im going on some ssri's tomorrow. I use cannabis for my medication now but Im getting worried about my lungs so im trying something else. I see using ssri;s as a crutch untill a person can get back on their feet.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: Blu Spore]
    #4827645 - 10/19/05 11:23 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I'm wondering Jimmy...and you too Art...

how many visits to the psyc...did you go to before even being diagnosed or getting the meds...and did they recomend...or did you try anythign else first?


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InvisibleBlu Spore
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4827683 - 10/19/05 11:35 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Well I went to counselors as a young teen but I have diagnosed myself as having a mood disorder. I get crazy mood swings and sometimes I will just feel dead like no emotion almost....well the emotion is there I just can't muster any energy to express it.

I have taken all sorts of herbal cures for depression and they dont even put a dent in it. Both depression and that bi-polar runs big time through both sides of my family....one of my cousins was so bad that she couldnt get out of bed anymore with out meds. Im not that bad compared to some of my family members and I am not bi-polar because I never get the bonus of the extreme ups along with the downs.


Edited by Blu Spore (10/19/05 11:49 PM)


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: Blu Spore]
    #4827785 - 10/20/05 12:00 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

What type of counselor?


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InvisibleBlu Spore
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4828044 - 10/20/05 01:14 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I had gone to school councelors back when I was still in high school and I took advantage of some free sessions offered by my Dads work (kinda like dental but I got free shrink visits) They never really helped much at all. Most of them just offer common sense advice then end up recomending ssri's anyways.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: Blu Spore]
    #4828671 - 10/20/05 08:07 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I meant what type of therapy do they suscribe to?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: Blu Spore]
    #4828851 - 10/20/05 09:26 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JimmytheWorm said:
Well I went to counselors as a young teen but I have diagnosed myself as having a mood disorder.




You diagnosed yourself?


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: Blu Spore]
    #4828900 - 10/20/05 09:45 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

You didn't write your own prescription for SSRI's too did you...or obtain them with out a prescription?


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