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InvisibleThePerspective
EuphoricFantasia

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 127
Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #4812000 - 10/16/05 08:07 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

SubGen1us said:

If u think about it dropping the temp to start pinning itself is a "cold shock"
now how can that be disproven.
Horse poo is good. Why?
well it holds more water than cow poo.





Natural temperature declines within 10 degrees would be like the start of a new season, that isn't a "shock" And wrong again, horse is better due to being fluffier and less digested. You don't want soaking wet horse poo, they draw the water from the casing layer mostly.


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InvisibleThePerspective
EuphoricFantasia

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 127
Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: A0999]
    #4812060 - 10/16/05 08:17 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

Do the research and prove it to yourself. Cubensis is not found in any area that gets as cold as a fridge. Other species could benefit, cubensis is not one of them.


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OfflineA0999
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Registered: 09/27/02
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Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4812155 - 10/16/05 08:36 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

"Do the research and prove it to yourself."

your the one thats stating all these facts, why dont you back it up?

"Cubensis is not found in any area that gets as cold as a fridge."

remember, were not trying to "grow" mushrooms in the fridge. were just using the extreme temperature change to trigger fruting.

"Other species could benefit, cubensis is not one of them."

IME cubensis IS one of those species


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Not necessarily stoned, but beautiful


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Offlinewillmafingerdo
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Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: A0999]
    #4812957 - 10/16/05 11:03 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

damn didnt meant to start a fight!! :P~ ty guys for all the info:) ill just spary it down with a water bottle, its my first atempt at poo so its not a awsome casing. just trying to get the feel for poo.  here when i get the hang of using poo ill do a comparison cold shock vs non and dunk vs non and post the resalts :smile:.. now play nice kids or ill turn this bus around and will go straight home!!

im kind of embarassed to show this but heres the first flush.. the casing wasnt 100% colonized, i got impatient and whent ahead and cased it anyway :frown:  i pulled the 2 biggest ones off of it today (before pics were taken) they equaled 50 gms wet. i must say they are comeing in alot bigger than when i grew them out on corn (there cams if you were wondering).


TY all for the info :smile:
l8r,
will


--------------------
:scaryshroom: :shitstorm: :mattz: :bongload: :gethigh: :scaryshroom:

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InvisibleThePerspective
EuphoricFantasia

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 127
Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: willmafingerdo]
    #4813085 - 10/16/05 11:28 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

Because I was simply stating what I know as a fact. If you don't want to do the reading, it's your choice and chance of failure. I never said that anyone was growing anything in a fridge, but the temperatures reached are un-natural and harmful. And plenty of people have never done a fridge dunk and get perfect flushes, seeing as how a 10 degree drop is all that is needed in nature; and in home.


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OfflineA0999
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Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4813299 - 10/16/05 11:57 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

"your choice and chance of failure."
hah! thats a good one.

"I never said that anyone was growing anything in a fridge"

i was proving your statement "cubensis is not found in any are that gets cold as a fridge" irrelevant. as we are not trying to "grow in any area that gets cold as a fridge".

"but the temperatures reached are un-natural and harmful."

bullshit.


"And plenty of people have never done a fridge dunk and get perfect flushes"

as have people that have cold shocked

"seeing as how a 10 degree drop is all that is needed in nature; and in home."

"all that is NEEDED" do you think nature needs to go through sterilization, liquid culture, agar, grain to grain, spawning to poo, casing??? we do all that stuff because it allows us to grow better. an indoor grow will be more sufficient than an outdoor forever. its all about innovation and adaptation.


--------------------
Not necessarily stoned, but beautiful


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InvisibleThePerspective
EuphoricFantasia

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 127
Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: A0999]
    #4813726 - 10/17/05 12:52 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

Believe what you want, pal, but if you want to stick a fragile network into contaminate-ville, be my guest. Go ask any major grower if they cold shock or not, and I bet you'll get a whole lot of not's. And your last analogy has to be the stupidest thing I've seen in awhile; advanced cultivation methods have nothing to do with how the genetics of the mushroom define how it will best grow.


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Invisiblejarroddupont
I shroom we Allshroom

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 2,106
Loc: midwest of ...
Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4813779 - 10/17/05 01:00 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

bicker bicker bicker, one would think they're in a toy forum full of kids


--------------------
P. Cubensis Growth Parameters
"All mushrooms are edible, but some only once."
-- Croatian Proverb


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OfflineA0999
Disco ish
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Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4813949 - 10/17/05 01:26 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

whats the point in taking personal stabs at me? is that all there is left for you to make your self look better?

look, i dont know why your having a hard time understanding such simple things.

you said a 10 degree drop is all that is needed in nature. ok, its all that is "needed", but there may be more "optimal" conditions, example: cold shocking(lower temperature). other occurences that happen in nature may be all that is "needed". however, more optimal occurences may be "sterilization, liquid culture, agar, grain to grain, spawning to poo, casing". so tell me how is that a bad analogy? it seems to fit perfect.

genetics have little to do with this, all forms of life are constantly addapting. this does not exclude cubensis mushrooms.

ive got 4 years of experience growing which is enough to know how things are. i can conclude that most of the facts you are stating are just untrue.

OK YEAH YEAH YEAH.... COLD SHOCKING IS NOT NECESSARY, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN IT DOESNT WORK!

in my experience cold shocking has lead to faster pin formation than if it was not cold shocked.

as for refridgerators being a contaminant hazard, i have never once had any problems with this. i think if you keep your fridge halway clean(no mold, no old food, or anything obvious) you wont ever have a problem with contams from your fridge.


--------------------
Not necessarily stoned, but beautiful


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Invisiblefinding_self
Stranger
Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 489
a h [Re: A0999]
    #4814059 - 10/17/05 01:46 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

Post deleted by FunMatic<p>Reason for deletion: a h


Edited by finding_self (04/18/06 07:55 PM)


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InvisibleThePerspective
EuphoricFantasia

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 127
Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: finding_self]
    #4814458 - 10/17/05 03:01 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

I wouldn't lower myself to personal stabs. A 10 degree drop IS optimal. And a tropical mushroom is not going to suddenly adapt to live in Alaska, sorry. X number of years means nothing to me, ask some of the real pro's around here and see what they say and watch it mimic me. I don't put out bunk info.


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OfflinePookztA
Medical Student

Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Illinois
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4814612 - 10/17/05 03:36 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

yo so i am somewhat convinced that dunking my poo will help, especially if that guy is on his 7th or 8th flush, lol... so i guess my question, is will the casing layer be contaminated enough so that it doesnt crumble once the contents of tray + casing are dunked? or do you scrape off casing / what is left of casing AFTER its dunked... basically im wondering why i cant just mist the casing :smile:


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com


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OfflineA0999
Disco ish
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Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4814708 - 10/17/05 04:03 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

there you go again. who the fuck said anything about alaska? THE MYCELIUM IS ONLY IN THE FRIDGE OVERNIGHT, NOT ITS ENTIRE FRUTING CYCLE. cold shocking is just a fast triggering of fruiting.

we can settle this whole thing right now if you would just provide some decent proof.

if experience means nothing to you then why do you rely on these "real pros" so much?

so would you admit there are no negative effects of cold shocking besides contamination(which only occurs if you dont take proper precautions)? from what ive collect you basically just dont feel like putting your cakes in the fridge. for no good reason.

heres what i realized. casings are too much trouble for cold shocking. cakes are perfect candidates for cold shocking though. however, not many people including myself ever go back to cakes after casing(im including bulk w/ casings). so i havent actually cold shocked anything in a while but i still stand by my opinion that it accelerates pinning.

its just too easy not to cold shock when fruiting from cakes. right after you birth them you want to rehydrate and initiate pinning. so while your dunking you might as well cold shock.

when fruting from casings after you birth you want to hydrate but you DONT want to induce pinning just yet. so you dunk(when using pf style cakes of course. not applicable to grains) then mix with casing mixture which is allready hydrated so theres no need to dunk. you still dont want to initiate pinning just yet. you toss the casing back in the incibator to allow more mycelial growth. when grow through is optimal you then want to induce pinning but your not going to dunk, your going to put your casing straight into your fruiting chamber. since your not going to dunk then its not really worth cold shocking because that 12-24 period would be used to initiate pinning in a semi natural enviroment. whereas if you werent dunking and cold shocking at the same time you would just be wasting a whole day of pin formation. that basically applies to bulk production too.

and thats why i feel like cold shocking is considered overrated.


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InvisibleThePerspective
EuphoricFantasia

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 127
Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: A0999]
    #4814796 - 10/17/05 04:24 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

You didn't get the point. A tropical mushroom will only survive in tropical conditions. In tropical conditions, they don't see a 35 degree freezing rain day. No, it won't kill it, but it may very well hinder it. No, it's not the whole fruiting cycle, but it is INDEED a shock, a potentially dangerous one to the network. Cold shocking can delay pinning and cause lowered pinsets. Thus these extra few days that you'd have faster pinning and colonization, you'd also have a vector for contamination.


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Offline_OttO_
Over Stimulated
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Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4814878 - 10/17/05 05:07 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

ThePerspective, you are right except for one point. It really isn't necessary to cold shock during a dunk and it will in fact delay pinning for a few extra days, but the reason it is done is to prevent contams getting hold while it is submerged - the cold temps slows the growth of all spores, including the mycelial network.

I always dunk my casings, and never cold shock - Im experimenting with adding nutrients in the form of a soluble organic fertiliser - seaweed extract - to the dunk water. Seems to keep the flushes strong and healthy, but is a bigger gamble with contams. Never had one yet though......


Edited by _OttO_ (10/17/05 05:18 AM)


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OfflineA0999
Disco ish
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Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4815504 - 10/17/05 12:06 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

"You didn't get the point."
im pretty sure your the on thats not getting the point

"A tropical mushroom will only survive in tropical conditions."
a mushroom maybe. but mycelium can survive in freezing temperatures

"In tropical conditions, they don't see a 35 degree freezing rain day."
again, the occurences in nature may not be the absolute best way that the mushrooms can grow. there may be better conditions than in nature.

"No, it won't kill it, but it may very well hinder it."
yeah growth may be stalled while its in the fridge, but 10 miutes later when that mycelium has reached 70-75 degrees it will be right on its way again.

No, it's not the whole fruiting cycle, but it is INDEED a shock, a potentially dangerous one to the network.
well speaking from experience its never been dangerous. ive never lost 1 single cake due to cantams after a cold shock.

"Cold shocking can delay pinning and cause lowered pinsets."
true, but only for the time that its actually 30-40 degrees(in the fridge)

"Thus these extra few days that you'd have faster pinning and colonization, you'd also have a vector for contamination."
again, no cantams here.


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InvisibleThePerspective
EuphoricFantasia

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 127
Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: _OttO_]
    #4816152 - 10/17/05 03:26 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

_OttO_ said:
ThePerspective, you are right except for one point. It really isn't necessary to cold shock during a dunk and it will in fact delay pinning for a few extra days, but the reason it is done is to prevent contams getting hold while it is submerged - the cold temps slows the growth of all spores, including the mycelial network.

I always dunk my casings, and never cold shock - Im experimenting with adding nutrients in the form of a soluble organic fertiliser - seaweed extract - to the dunk water. Seems to keep the flushes strong and healthy, but is a bigger gamble with contams. Never had one yet though......




Err, what? I'm the one advising AGAINST cold shocking. Cold does nothing for preventing contamination during a shock. Adding H2O2 or bleach, does.


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Invisiblejarroddupont
I shroom we Allshroom

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 2,106
Loc: midwest of ...
Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4816167 - 10/17/05 03:29 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

GIVE IT A REST, LET HIM THINK HE'S RIGHT AND JUST KNOW TO YOURSELF YOU ARE RIGHT, THE POSTER WILL DECIDE WHO'S ADVICE HE WANTS TO TAKE AND WILL LEARN WHO'S CORRECT THROUGH TRIAL AND ERROR. SORRY, BUT HOW LONG ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP THIS GOING?


--------------------
P. Cubensis Growth Parameters
"All mushrooms are edible, but some only once."
-- Croatian Proverb


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OfflineA0999
Disco ish
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Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: jarroddupont]
    #4816531 - 10/17/05 04:58 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

WTF is your problem? we are just having a debate. none of this is serious. at least not to me. what can i say? i guess i just like to argue a bit, but there are no hard feelings towards anyone. i respect his opinion.

lol, il even admit cold shocking is a waste of time and not necessary.


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Offline_OttO_
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Re: do you dunk your poo?? [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4818474 - 10/18/05 12:02 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

ThePerspective said:
Quote:

_OttO_ said:
ThePerspective, you are right except for one point. It really isn't necessary to cold shock during a dunk and it will in fact delay pinning for a few extra days, but the reason it is done is to prevent contams getting hold while it is submerged - the cold temps slows the growth of all spores, including the mycelial network.

I always dunk my casings, and never cold shock - Im experimenting with adding nutrients in the form of a soluble organic fertiliser - seaweed extract - to the dunk water. Seems to keep the flushes strong and healthy, but is a bigger gamble with contams. Never had one yet though......




Err, what? I'm the one advising AGAINST cold shocking. Cold does nothing for preventing contamination during a shock. Adding H2O2 or bleach, does.




Im agreeing with your views AGAINST cold shocking. Im disagreeing with your ideas that cold does nothing to prevent contamination. If a fridge does nothing to prevent contamination, take all your food out of it for two days and watch what happens.


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