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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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evil triumphs...
    #4810207 - 10/16/05 07:44 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051016/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

this is without a doubt one of greatest tragedies in human history...who can question bush now??...on the one hand..i cannot blame the iraqi voters for wanting the war in iraq to end at any cost...however..bushs' victory will no doubt prompt more such adventures..and more american soldiers will die needlessly along with countless civilian victims of genocide bombings...and all to seize oil and natural gas that will run out anyway...the policy is still a waste..despite its unqualified success...

nor is there any longer any grounds on which to oppose bushs' domestic policy either..which includes revoking the right to trial-by-jury for any accused that the executive chooses to declare a "terrorist"...ill leave it to the reader to do the math...

this charter is not a blow for freedom.. it is the death blow to freedom...it is the might of raw power prevailing..and as such the triumph of pure evil...the gloating..dismissive responses from right-wing toadys..or lack of any response whatsoever..that im expecting..will only prove my point...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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OfflinePhred
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4810224 - 10/16/05 08:06 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Annapurna1 writes:

Quote:

this is without a doubt one of greatest tragedies in human history...




Yep. Right up there with the tsunami, the Holocaust, the Rwandan genocide, Pol Pot's purge and the deliberate starvation of tens of millions by the USSR and China.

The Iraqis have a constitutionally limited, democratically elected government now. How tragic.

Quote:

the gloating..dismissive responses from right-wing toadys..or lack of any response whatsoever..that im expecting..will only prove my point...




Here's a news flash for you, Anna -- your recent habit of attempting to head off criticism of the truly bizarre statements you make by predicting the response you will receive to them is an exercise in futility. People disagree with your positions not because they are neocons or right wing toadies but because your positions are (to be tactful) indefensible. No matter how much you may wish it were so, the fact your statements are challenged does not "prove your point". Quite the reverse.





Phred


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4810237 - 10/16/05 08:20 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I'm fairly certain that I'm far from right winged. I'm an athiest who supports the end of the War on Drugs. I believe in the basic ideas of Libertarianism. I've been saying from the beginning that the war in Iraq is completely unfounded.

However, I can't for the life of me understand why, Iraq having a constitution, agreed upon by a majority of it's people, would be that end of all things good.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Ekstaza]
    #4810319 - 10/16/05 09:20 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

maybe that they couldnt read the constitution before voting on it? so its not a REAL agreement.

i believe hes adressing the constitution itself and not the fact that there is one.

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4810323 - 10/16/05 09:23 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

there was also the issue of unwarranted military campaigns against sunnis, as with the election of officials, to decrease possibilities of their representation. They are making sure sunnis are there, but have no real power. Wait and see what comes of all this.

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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4810334 - 10/16/05 09:31 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051016/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

this is without a doubt one of greatest tragedies in human history...who can question bush now??...on the one hand..i cannot blame the iraqi voters for wanting the war in iraq to end at any cost...however..bushs' victory will no doubt prompt more such adventures..and more american soldiers will die needlessly along with countless civilian victims of genocide bombings...and all to seize oil and natural gas that will run out anyway...the policy is still a waste..despite its unqualified success...

nor is there any longer any grounds on which to oppose bushs' domestic policy either..which includes revoking the right to trial-by-jury for any accused that the executive chooses to declare a "terrorist"...ill leave it to the reader to do the math...

this charter is not a blow for freedom.. it is the death blow to freedom...it is the might of raw power prevailing..and as such the triumph of pure evil...the gloating..dismissive responses from right-wing toadys..or lack of any response whatsoever..that im expecting..will only prove my point...




Thanks for being honest. Most on your side wouldn't admit to actually rooting for insurgents, terrorism, failed democracy, and civil war based on it contradicting their Peace (TM) dogma.

But if their actions (protests) in the name of Peace (TM) were actually carried out they would have reveled in the blood of iraqi's. Why? They win. Thats the most important thing. Bush/America/U.S would have been defeated.


Humanism....when convenient.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Phred]
    #4810376 - 10/16/05 09:58 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Iraqis have a constitutionally limited, democratically elected government now. How tragic.




Quote:

However, I can't for the life of me understand why, Iraq having a constitution, agreed upon by a majority of it's people, would be that end of all things good.




thats not a tragedy in and of itself.. what is tragic is that it will be framed in the US as a decisive victory for bush and a full validation of his extremist policies...

Quote:

People disagree with your positions not because they are neocons or right wing toadies but because your positions are (to be tactful) indefensible.




first of all..i would like to know whats so bizzare and/or indefensible about my presumption above that bush&co will try (and succeed) to gain "political capital" for their agenda from the passage of the iraqi constitution...one would think that the opposite presumption would be far more so...

second of all..i should point out that while ppl may or may not disagree with my positions because they are neocon toadys..many of them are nonetheless...if they want to disagree with my positions intelligently..thats fine...unfortunately..that requires them to do better than gloating and name-calling..and that has proven beyond their capacity...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (10/16/05 10:20 AM)

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OfflinePhred
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4810404 - 10/16/05 10:11 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

kilgore_trout writes:

Quote:

maybe that they couldnt read the constitution before voting on it?




This turns out not to be the case. The full text of the constitution has been available for weeks. The government printed up millions of copies, Iraqi newspapers printed it, Iraqi television has had endless shows with pundits debating the provisions, it's been online in dozens of sites in both Arabic and English and probably a dozen other languages.

Try again.




Phred


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Phred]
    #4810429 - 10/16/05 10:21 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Oh he will, he will.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4810436 - 10/16/05 10:24 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kilgore_trout said:
maybe that they couldnt read the constitution before voting on it? so its not a REAL agreement.




phred is correct...my hunch (and this is strictly a hunch)..is that the majority voted for it because they felt compelled to surrender..perhaps because they feared bush would escalate the war...but that does..however.. mean that its not a "real" agreement...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4810453 - 10/16/05 10:33 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

its been all over the media that a great number of areas, though not all, were unable to get any copies of the constitution. i am aware of a what you cited, but that does not hold true across the country.

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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4810465 - 10/16/05 10:40 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
thats not a tragedy in and of itself.. what is tragic is that it will be framed in the US as a decisive victory for bush and a full validation of his extremist policies...



Everyone knows how devoid Bush an Co. are of credence. The Iraqis getting on their feet won't change that.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Ekstaza]
    #4810472 - 10/16/05 10:42 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

fortunate son . . . credence . . . hahaha

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4810540 - 10/16/05 11:00 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kilgore_trout said:
its been all over the media that a great number of areas, though not all, were unable to get any copies of the constitution. i am aware of a what you cited, but that does not hold true across the country.




Well then, let us have a jolly little link. Thanks in advance.

My bet is that the Iraqi voters are better informed of what they are voting on than American voters. Can't prove it but the general tenor of the "man on the street" interviews I've seen in both places suggest that quite strongly.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4810564 - 10/16/05 11:09 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Annapurna1 writes:

Quote:

thats not a tragedy in and of itself.. what is tragic is that it will be framed in the US as a decisive victory for bush and a full validation of his extremist policies...




Make up your mind. You opened the statement with the truly astonishing (even for you) assertion that "this is without a doubt one of greatest tragedies in human history..."

"Without a doubt"? "Greatest tragedies"? Pretty bombastic phrasing for what is in fact nothing more than another instance of Bush being correct.

"Oh no! Bush was right -- again! How can we oppose the next right thing he does? Our meme that everything he does is exremist and wrong has once again been exposed as the baseless rhetoric it really is. We Lefties are doomed. Doomed, I tell you!"

Why are you so upset at this latest proof? It's not like your side has been right before, after all. Let's recall the Bush-bashers' track record just on Iraq -- for now let's ignore completely the hysterically overblown predictions from the LLL on the "quagmire" Afghanistan was going to be. From http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/002894.html --

Quote:

Recall that it would take many months and many thousands of American lives simply to conquer Iraq.

Recall that, even if we managed to get control, the Iraqi people would never regain their sovereignty.

Recall that, even if we did give Iraq back to the Iraqis, it would simply be a puppet government that ruled.

Recall that, even if the government ever allowed elections, the Iraqi people wouldn't be interested in participating.

Recall that, even if the Iraqis did want to vote, the violence in Iraq would prevent them from doing so.

Recall that the Arabs are so used to despotism they will never be able to handle democracy - it is foreign to their nature.

Recall that, even if elections were held, they would be so corrupt as to be worthless.

Recall that, even if a freely-elected government was formed, they would never be able to keep control.

Recall that, even if a new Iraqi government did manage to run things, they would never agree on a permanent charter.

Recall that, even a charter acceptable to all government leaders was written, the Iraqi voters would never approve it.

Recall that, even if voters did approve a new constitution, it would be without much participation of the Sunnis and would therefore be meaningless.




Quote:

first of all..i would like to know whats so bizzare and/or indefensible about my presumption above that bush&co will try (and succeed) to gain "political capital" for their agenda from the passage of the iraqi constitution...




That's not the presumption with which I take issue this time. Of course rational people will notice Bush is not the idiot the LLL attempts to paint him as, duh. That is self-evident. And why shouldn't the Bush administration point to their quite evident successes in order to persuade Americans to support them? There is certainly no shortage of Bush-bashers pointing out the equally evident failures of the same administration, after all. Reminding others of one's successes is no "tragedy", it's just common sense. Bush was right, y'all were wrong. Suck it up and deal with it.

Quote:

.if they want to disagree with my positions intelligently..thats fine...unfortunately..that requires them to do better than gloating and name-calling..and that has proven beyond their capacity...




Oh please, Anna. If there's anyone here more given to gloating and name-calling than yourself I have yet to identify him/her. As for "intelligent" disagreement, I leave it to the readers of your posts to make their own determination as to who is exhibiting greater intelligence: the one attempting to portray such a significant gain for the people of Iraq as "one of the greatest tragedies in human history" or those pointing out the ridiculousness of such a proclamation.




Phred


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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4810607 - 10/16/05 11:20 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

even the bullshit assosciated press was running stories on it. google shit for yourself and find something that you won't pre-emptively reject the source. start with the assosciated press if you'd like.

associated press was saying that thursday even up to the voting the 104 page document had not gotten the distribution needed. put that with the fact that shit was still being added and revised after the actual distribution, and you have an undemocratic situation though one of voting.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4810644 - 10/16/05 11:33 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Wow. Just wow.

Since when is it bad to vote in a democratic constitution?

So, in your eyes, the fact that Bush will be viewed positively for this act ruins the importance of the constitution himself? Your thought process amazes me.

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Phred]
    #4810883 - 10/16/05 01:01 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Oh no! Bush was right -- again! How can we oppose the next right thing he does? Our meme that everything he does is exremist and wrong has once again been exposed as the baseless rhetoric it really is. We Lefties are doomed. Doomed, I tell you!"




i dont dispute bushs' ability to succeed in getting ppl killed.. stealing their oil.. and cutting off their civil liberties (in america if not iraq).. all in the name of enriching his cronies...but it sounds ludicrous to suggests that any of the above is the "right" thing to do...

Quote:

attempting to portray such a significant gain for the people of Iraq as "one of the greatest tragedies in human history"




the charter is about as much of a gain for the ppl of iraq as the settlement of the 2004 LA supermarket strike was for the UFCW...the concessions it grants to US oil companies is a tragedy by itself..let alone the almost certain acceleration of imperialist warfare and domestic fascism...what a big victory for freedom...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (10/16/05 01:02 PM)

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4810893 - 10/16/05 01:03 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Please, name the concessions to oil companies that are in the constitution. Don't put these concessions in your own words. I want to see actual text. Either that, or admit you lied.

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4810903 - 10/16/05 01:06 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

theres links discussing them in other posts, i believe i may have explained them somewhat as well.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4810909 - 10/16/05 01:08 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Well, if she wants to bullshit, she can back up her rhetoric with facts for once. It is her job to prove her point, not mine to look for information to prove her point.

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4810913 - 10/16/05 01:08 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

its where i talk about the privitization of the existing national company (domestic control), and the limiting of domestic control to existing operations not untapped reserves.


--------------------
"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4810922 - 10/16/05 01:10 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

it might have been in the iraq constitution thread that i put them up

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4810932 - 10/16/05 01:14 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

unfortunately..the link i was about to post is down...i will post the response it when it becomes available again...

EDIT ..

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_ID=9601

Quote:

The draft constitution will strip the Iraqi people of their nation's oil wealth by opening all new oil exploration to foreign oil companies.




--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (10/16/05 05:17 PM)

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4817549 - 10/17/05 06:55 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

fortunately..i could be wrong about the iraqi charter generating support for bush ..

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/17/poll.bush/index.html

Quote:

Bush's job rating continues to drop
Poll shows president's performance approval at low point

(CNN) -- President Bush's job approval rating continues to plummet, with 39 percent of Americans surveyed in the latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll supporting his performance, compared to 58 percent expressing disapproval.

The approval rating was lowest the poll has recorded during Bush's presidency, down from 45 percent in a survey taken September 26-28, and the disapproval rating was up from 50 percent.

The latest poll results, released Monday, were based on interviews with 1,012 adult Americans conducted by telephone October 13-16. In both surveys, the questions on approval ratings had a sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Bush has seen his approval rating steadily decline since he was sworn in for a second term in January, when 57 percent approved of his handling of the job and 40 percent disapproved.

The rating in the September 26-28 poll was an uptick that reflected the public's generally favorable view of the way Bush handled Hurricane Rita. (Full story)

His previous low of 40 percent came earlier in September and reflected the public's strongly negative view of his actions following Hurricane Katrina. (Full story)

Until then, pollsters attributed the president's poll slippage largely to perceptions of the administration's handling of the war in Iraq. (Full story)

In the latest poll, Bush's support appeared to have eroded even among suburban residents, who had been among his strongest backers, falling from 51 percent in last month's poll to 41 percent in the latest survey.

Among urban residents, his approval rating did not budge from 34 percent, and among rural residents it was almost the same, 44 percent versus 45 percent last month.

The sampling error for these and other questions that were broken down among groups was plus or minus 7 percentage points in both polls.
Base remains supportive

Bush's base appeared to remain largely supportive, with 62 percent of respondents who described themselves as conservative approving of his performance, down from 68 percent last month.

Support from moderates fell from 40 percent to 32 percent, and remained about the same for liberals, rising from 14 percent to 17 percent.

And the GOP faithful remained overwhelmingly steadfast in their support, with 84 percent voicing approval, versus 85 percent in last month's poll.

That was not the case among those who identified themselves as Democrats, whose support for Bush dropped from 15 percent to 8 percent.

It appeared that many Americans do not know what to make of the travails of top Bush political adviser Karl Rove, who was interviewed again last week by a grand jury regarding his possible role in leaking the name of a CIA operative.

Asked their opinion Rove, 22 percent of respondents said it was favorable, down from 25 percent in July, and 39 percent said it was unfavorable, up from 34 percent in July.

But 39 percent said they were unsure, down from 41 percent in July's poll. Both questions had a sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.




however..the poll is prolly still too early to correlate to the charter...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4818233 - 10/17/05 09:15 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Anna is not alone. I visited one of my liberal anti-war, anti-Bush friends tonight and he was pissed that I even brought up the Constitution. He seemed very angry that Iraqi Sunnis, Shia and Kurds came together to write and than ratify a constitution. It is sad that people are this way in light of our noble cause.

Passing this constitution is critical to bringing the boys home. Anyone who says they want to bring the boys home should be overjoyed. Passing this constitution was a great day for America. Why do some Americans hate seeing great progress in Iraq?

The first election in Iraq was a major media event. People expected a bloodbath and the media was chomping at the bit to cover the story. They wanted to show you the chaos. They believed their own hype that Iraq was in no shape to have free elections.

Much to the dismay of the mainstream media, the elections went well. The first elections got wall to wall coverage. These elections for the ratification of the constitution were done in a media blackout by comparison. Why is that? I would guess that a few days before the election, it finally sank into the American newsrooms that this baby was going to pass. And even in the few articles that I have seen reporting on this election, they tend to view things in a negative light.

I should never be amazed at what I see from our media.

Let's talk about Quagmire! Quagmire! Quagmire!. Iraq is hopeless, we can't win. We are in a QUAGMIRE! But what are the facts? We have seen progress in Iraq from day one. We have trained an Iraqi army to defend their nation. We have rebuilt infrastructure and schools. Sunnis, Shia and Kurds have come together to give their nation a constitution. Where the fuck is the quagmire? And what about this idiot Bush? He has no plan. Except he did have a plan, and that plan had stated benchmarks and time-lines. And guess what?, he nailed every one of them.

I have said it before. I cannot possibly see how this war could have gone any better. And this war is pretty much over. Any question where the hearts and minds are in Iraq? Nope. We only requested 2000 extra troops for this election, and it went off without a hitch. Each and every day more Iraqi troops come online. We will begin drawing down troops within the next 12 months. We have won this war.

That should be great news for everyone. People that hate war should rejoice the beginning of the end. People that supported the war should be proud that our brave troops have accomplished so much. Everyone should be happy about what is happening in Iraq.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4818881 - 10/17/05 11:28 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Passing this constitution is critical to bringing the boys home. Anyone who says they want to bring the boys home should be overjoyed. Passing this constitution was a great day for America. Why do some Americans hate seeing great progress in Iraq?




nothing could be further from the truth...if bush wins in iraq..he will try to parlay it in iran..syria..venezuela..etc and the boys wont be coming home any time soon...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4818903 - 10/17/05 11:32 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Pure and utter speculation.

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4818947 - 10/17/05 11:42 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6099353/site/newsweek/

Quote:

Oct. 4 issue - Deep in the Pentagon, admirals and generals are updating plans for possible U.S. military action in Syria and Iran. The Defense Department unit responsible for military planning for the two troublesome countries is "busier than ever," an administration official says. Some Bush advisers characterize the work as merely an effort to revise routine plans the Pentagon maintains for all contingencies in light of the Iraq war. More skittish bureaucrats say the updates are accompanied by a revived campaign by administration conservatives and neocons for more hard-line U.S. policies toward the countries. (Syria is regarded as a major route for jihadis entering Iraq, and Iran appears to be actively pursuing nuclear weapons.) Even hard-liners acknowledge that given the U.S. military commitment in Iraq, a U.S. attack on either country would be an unlikely last resort; covert action of some kind is the favored route for Washington hard-liners who want regime change in Damascus and Tehran.




http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/17/world/main856312.shtml

Quote:

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said he has documentary evidence that the United States plans to invade his country.

Chavez, interviewed Friday on ABC television's "Nightline," said the plan is called "Balboa" and involves aircraft carriers and planes.




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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4818960 - 10/17/05 11:45 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

1. Bush will not invade another country. We don't have the funds or men to do it.

2. If Chavez has this information, I'd like to see it.

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4818975 - 10/17/05 11:51 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

1. Bush will not invade another country. We don't have the funds or men to do it.




since when has that stopped him??...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4818978 - 10/17/05 11:51 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Since now.

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4818988 - 10/17/05 11:55 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

the iraqi constitution vote was rigged (?) ..

Quote:

Iraq's election commission announced Monday that officials were investigating "unusually high" numbers of "yes" votes in about a dozen provinces during Iraq's landmark referendum on a new constitution, raising questions about irregularities in the balloting.




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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 17 years, 2 days
Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4819867 - 10/18/05 08:50 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

it is the might of raw power prevailing..and as such the triumph of pure evil...




the most powerful always comes out in the end, by definition i'd say. sometimes for a good cause, sometimes no.

being powerful and using that power is not the same as being evil.


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
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Re: evil triumphs... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4820724 - 10/18/05 01:29 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Since now

Never underestimate the current breed of right wing lunatics surrounding Bush.

Are we going to war with Iran?

Dan Plesch evaluates the evidence pointing towards a new conflict in the Middle East

Tuesday October 18, 2005


The Sunday Telegraph warned last weekend that the UN had a last chance to avert war with Iran and, at a meeting in London last week, the US ambassador to the UN, John Bolton, expressed his regret that any failure by the UN security council to deal with Iran would damage the security council's relevance, implying that the US would solve the problem on its own.

The US army and marines are heavily committed in Iraq, but soldiers could be found if the Bush administration were intent on invasion. Donald Rumsfeld has been reorganising the army to increase front-line forces by a third. More importantly, naval and air force firepower has barely been used in Iraq. Just 120 B52 and stealth bombers could target 5,000 points in Iran with satellite-guided bombs in just one mission. It is for this reason that John Pike of globalsecurity.org thinks that a US attack could come with no warning at all. US action is often portrayed as impossible, not only because of the alleged lack of firepower, but because Iranian facilities are too hard to target. In a strategic logic not lost on Washington, the conclusion then is that if you cannot guarantee to destroy all the alleged weapons, then it must be necessary to remove the regime that wants them, and regime change has been the official policy in Washington for many years.

For political-military planners, precision strikes on a few facilities have drawbacks beyond leaving the regime intact. They allow the regime too many retaliatory options. Certainly, Iran's neighbours in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf who are worried about the growth of Iranian Shia influence in Iraq would want any attack to be decisive. From this logic grows the idea of destroying the political-military infrastructure of the clerical regime and perhaps encouraging separatist Kurdish and Azeri risings in the north-west. Some Washington planners have hopes of the Sunnis of oil-rich Khuzestan breaking away too.

A new war may not be as politically disastrous in Washington as many believe. Scott Ritter, the whistleblowing former UN weapons inspector, points out that few in the Democratic party will stand in the way of the destruction of those who conducted the infamous Tehran embassy siege that ended Jimmy Carter's presidency. Mr Ritter is one of the US analysts, along with Seymour Hersh, who have led the allegations that Washington is going to war with Iran.

For an embattled President Bush, combating the mullahs of Tehran may be a useful means of diverting attention from Iraq and reestablishing control of the Republican party prior to next year's congressional elections. From this perspective, even an escalating conflict would rally the nation behind a war president. As for the succession to President Bush, Bob Woodward has named Mr Cheney as a likely candidate, a step that would be easier in a wartime atmosphere. Mr Cheney would doubtless point out that US military spending, while huge compared to other nations, is at a far lower percentage of gross domestic product than during the Reagan years. With regard to Mr Blair's position, it would be helpful to know whether he has committed Britain to preventing an Iranian bomb "come what may" as he did with Iraq.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,,1594974,00.html

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