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 BleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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 Re: when does the present become the past?  [Re: Moonshoe]
#4814016 - 10/16/05 11:39 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
there is no past and no future. there is and has only ever been now. wait as long as you want, you will never experience the past or the future. even when you are "recalling" something you are still experiencing that memory in the now.
how can u explain change without time?
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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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crunchytoast
oppositional
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 17 years, 20 days
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: BleaK]
#4814081 - 10/16/05 11:49 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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maybe ms is saying it's the present that changes; in a way time exists without past and future.
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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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BleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: crunchytoast]
#4814225 - 10/17/05 12:11 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
crunchytoast said:
maybe ms is saying it's the present that changes; in a way time exists without past and future.
the present changes in reference to wat?
wat medium do events occur in?
how can i hit a drum. then hit it again? 
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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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crunchytoast
oppositional
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 17 years, 20 days
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: BleaK]
#4815417 - 10/17/05 09:31 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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hmm.. maybe change is an illusion from this point of view?
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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
 
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,660
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 6 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: crunchytoast]
#4815442 - 10/17/05 09:38 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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If change is an illusion, why does it occur on a consistent basis?
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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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crunchytoast
oppositional
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 17 years, 20 days
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: SirTripAlot]
#4815476 - 10/17/05 09:55 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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if it's an illusion, then it doesn't
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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: BleaK]
#4815517 - 10/17/05 10:10 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
BleaK said:how can u explain change without time?
By changing...... ...... .... .. .. .
aghaaghhaahah hahah haha ha
    
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Disclaimer!?
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,660
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 6 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: Gomp]
#4815547 - 10/17/05 10:24 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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So it is an illusion....that changes...and the rest is a constant?
--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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 redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: SirTripAlot]
#4815580 - 10/17/05 10:38 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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I like marktheagnostic's application of a symbolic key to it
I will churn that key as follows:
the question describes a kind of wave and asks at which point on the wave has the present ceased to exist.
the past is in memory only.
the universe transacts with the mind and generates stuff for the memory to do it's thing with.
at the locus of this transaction, in each one of us, the present is churned into "memory".
this locus is not a point, it is more of a membrane where the universe is transacting with mind. a membrane that wraps our 2d connection to our 3d world.
each of us is another piece of this membrane
so the answer is
the present becomes past in each one of us continuously.
all matter is continuously in the present.
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 _  🧠 _ 
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BleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: redgreenvines]
#4815719 - 10/17/05 11:24 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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all of u are using verbs, and describing things that happen.
in wat medium do these things happen?
how can actions (and/or interactions) take place without time.
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
so the answer is
the present becomes past in each one of us continuously.
all matter is continuously in the present.
describe the act of becoming. 
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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: BleaK]
#4815902 - 10/17/05 12:24 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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radiance and reflection of parts within allness
now
connecting and rebounding fluidly
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: BleaK]
#4816872 - 10/17/05 04:12 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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"linear time is an illusion created by your inability to percieve all things at once" - Dogbert (yes, from the dilbert comic)
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Everything I post is fiction.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: Moonshoe]
#4817093 - 10/17/05 05:07 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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or it is a way of considering the direction of layers of memory that are accumulating
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TheShroomHermit
Divine Hermit of the Everything
Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 7,575
Loc: border of Canada and Mexi...
Last seen: 9 months, 29 days
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: BleaK]
#4817769 - 10/17/05 07:40 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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3-4 seconds, or up to 15 depending on your definition of memory. Sensory store is quite short, but short term memory is a little longer.
When you can take a glow stick on a string, and twirl it about and it makes a big circle... that is not one frame, but a small moment in time. If it were a frame in time, you would see just the glowstick and not the circle. The way the glowstick forms a line is just like how the present becomes the past. The beginning of the line is the present, and the end of the line is where the past begins (and it's just a memory of the glowstick being at that point)
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
#4817962 - 10/17/05 08:17 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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"The way the glowstick forms a line is just like how the present becomes the past. The beginning of the line is the present, and the end of the line is where the past begins (and it's just a memory of the glowstick being at that point)"
trippy
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Everything I post is fiction.
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BleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
#4817996 - 10/17/05 08:27 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheShroomHermit said:
3-4 seconds, or up to 15 depending on your definition of memory. Sensory store is quite short, but short term memory is a little longer.
When you can take a glow stick on a string, and twirl it about and it makes a big circle... that is not one frame, but a small moment in time. If it were a frame in time, you would see just the glowstick and not the circle. The way the glowstick forms a line is just like how the present becomes the past. The beginning of the line is the present, and the end of the line is where the past begins (and it's just a memory of the glowstick being at that point)
trippy indeed.
so when i see trails on shrooms... my perception of time has slowed?
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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: BleaK]
#4818609 - 10/17/05 10:34 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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the duration of the glowstick arc is a good meter to how stoned someone is.
the fading should be extended (or image persisted) much longer on entheogens.
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crunchytoast
oppositional
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 17 years, 20 days
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: redgreenvines]
#4818850 - 10/17/05 11:21 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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i'm beginning to wonder if there is no present, only change itself, an "arc" or "membrane"
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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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primal
undefined
Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 13
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: BleaK]
#4819106 - 10/18/05 12:22 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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There is no such thing as time. It's best to get the ideas of "past" "present" and "future" out of your head.
Ever consider the possibility that nothing ever happens? That nothing really exists? Look around you. Everything is "causing" everything else, nothing is really separate from anything else, space and time are infinite (and therefore void and illusory), in any "moment" there is an infinity of smaller moments, any distance we measure contains an infinity of points, everything we perceive is already past, over and done at the "time" we perceive it.... It all points to nothing, or infinity, which are exactly the same. Think about it. What if it was all nothing. What would nothing look like? Nothing couldn't be any one thing, nothing would have to be ALL THINGS (because it is "all things," it can't be any one thing). Nothing would look like all things at once, nothing would look like Infinity. When anything has no beginning, and no end, it can have no real existence.
But remember that "nothing" and "infinity" are only concepts, just like all language.
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Moxemerald
Executive
Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 390
Loc: NJ
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: when does the present become the past? [Re: primal]
#4819136 - 10/18/05 12:30 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yea man fuck time. Its all just one moment that never ends. The only reason we beleive in time because we grow old and die.
It's crazy when you experience eternity under the influence of psychadelics. It's really overwhelming and sometimes very frightening.
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