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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4810672 - 10/16/05 11:42 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Have you ever seen the movie "13 conversations about one thing"?

there is a part in that movie, where a man is asked "what is it you want from life?", and he answered, "i want what any man wants; to wake up enthused, to be happy".

Basically the movie was about your attitude towards life, how perception of any event is just as important as the event.

Like i said before, you are only helpless if you think you are.

sorry to use a movie premise, but i think that movie itself does a great job of showing the strata of human grief and suffering, reaction to misery and "unfairness".

things are either intrinsic or extrinsic. Which one do you think depression is?


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Offlineart
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4811300 - 10/16/05 02:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Correct me if i am wrong, but from what i understand your theory is if you are told you have depression you will act like it and even feel depressed; and if you get over the fact that you have been told you have depression then you will feel better?

my point was, i did not know i was depressed, so i did not feel helpless, or have a perception of how i should feel. While i was on the lexapro i was actually hoping that it would not work because i did not want to have depression. It wasn't until i stopped taking the lexapro that i really saw the difference.
Depression is more than just feeling sad. It affected every single aspect of my life, despite the fact that i had no idea that i was depressed. I was happy with my life, i was so grateful for everything i had.

On the "chemical imbalance" theory, if depression is not caused by a chemical imbalance, then how do SSRI work? If depression was caused by a persons perception of life, then wouldn't drugs like lexapro ineffective.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4811571 - 10/16/05 04:09 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

you seem to really treat depression as if it were a virus, something extrinsic. It isnt about "thinking yourself to feel better", its more like readjusting/learning/progressing spiritually, mentally, physically and emotionally. Your whole "logical" assesment of your life and actions should be changed.
Exactly how is one able to be depressed and not know it? subconscious emotions?

by blaming it on something external or detached from yourself, you refuse to confront what actions and choices you took which lead you to be chronically depressed.
When i said that crack is as good of a cure for depression as any other drug, i was trying to make a point about when generally drugging yourself to ignore your physical/mental problems, there is no difference between the two.
sure, lexapro probably keeps the "symptoms" at bay for a while, but so would crack effectivly if it werent so publically and socially frowned upon.
SSRI's basically just flood your brain with Seratonin, not allowing the released nuerotransmitters to be "cleaned back up", which is very similar to what MDMA does, which both types of DRUGS have been linked to cases of (wikipedia quote) "Serotonin syndrome is a condition caused by an excess of serotonin in the brain. The effects of serotonin syndrome may progress from headaches, dizziness, euphoria, abnormal movements of the foot and ankle, hyperreflexia, and vomiting, to coma and death. Rarer effects include rapid changes of mood, from severe depression to the point of being suicidal, to manic phases characterized by violence towards others and destruction. <b>Since serotonin's action is increased by anti-depressants such as Prozac, Luvox, and Paxil, the signs are often mistaken for extreme Bipolar Disorder, prompting an increase in dosage.</b>"

It is no secret that drugs can easily affect mood and emotions, but buying into some "chemical destiny" where all of our thoughts, actions, choices, decisions, and general wellbeing are dictated by a mixture of chemicals within us is not only laughable, it is dangerous because we are making people dependant on drugs, but the drugs that are "OK" and socially acceptable, so you dont have to feel bad about being a junkie.

Why is it that the stats and percentages of Americans afflicted with "depression" drastically increases with age? Why do no two national averages of americans afflicted with depression match? Why do we allow 7 year old children to be put on such strong drugs which showed 2 times the amount of suicidal side effects than the placebo?
Why does every year the amount of people afflicted with depression increase? Why is it that every month we see some new drug get a "black box warning" or is altogether pulled from the shelf? why are regular MD's, family doctors, any doctor almost! able to diagnose people with one visit and are able to prescribe ADHD drugs?
Why is the pharmaceutical industry the wealthiest in the world? Why do the majority of the members on a drugs advisory and evaluation panel have financial ties with pharm corps?

Do you not see the pristine marketing over the last 5 years? The amount of lobbying and legislation that has gone on in favor of making pharm corps billions of $$$ alone should tip you off.


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Offlineart
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4812232 - 10/16/05 06:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

you seem to really treat depression as if it were a virus, something extrinsic. It isnt about "thinking yourself to feel better", its more like readjusting/learning/progressing spiritually, mentally, physically and emotionally. Your whole "logical" assesment of your life and actions should be changed.




Well, what are some ways to help deal with social anxiety, tiredness, and irritability?  Besides i never had a problem with my assesment to begin with.  I never felt sorry for myself, i never new that i was depressed.

Quote:

Exactly how is one able to be depressed and not know it? subconscious emotions?





I knew that i felt sad, but i didn't know that i was depressed.  I thought everything i was feeling was normal, but it is not. I thought by exercising, and trying to force myself to be happy i would be fine. 


Quote:

by blaming it on something external or detached from yourself, you refuse to confront what actions and choices you took which lead you to be chronically depressed.




again, I did not blame my feelings on anything! That is my point, i did not make any choices that lead me to become chronically depressed.  I exercised, ate healthy, and had friends. I still don't understand what you mean "by blaming it on something."  Why is it i was depressed yet my friends who had it worse off than me weren't? My depression was not brought on by anything external.


Hmmm, yeah crack works just a good as lexapro, except for the fact that it will kill you and cause you to become addicted. :rolleyes:


I have no idea where you are getting all of your information, but SSRI's do not cause you to become some zombie that is addicted to them.  Depression is caused by a lack of seratonin,  SSRI's regulate the amount of seratonin into your brain, not just releasing a bunch of it like MDMA. That is why people can not roll on SSRI's.


Look, This summer is when i started taking the lexapro,  Right now i am not on it.  Within a couple weeks of not taking it i noticed all of my old feelings coming back to me. It wasn't just a matter of feeling happy and sad, when i was on them i did things that i never would have, like go on a walk with my family, drive in the city, small things like that.  Even when i was on the lexapro i was in denial of having depression, i still thought everything i felt was normal.  I stopped taking the lexapro to see if the lexapro really worked, hey what do you know i started feeling like shit again, and it was NOT because i was "addicted" or the lexpro messed me up, these were old feelings, it was a familar feeling.  Like last night, there was a big party that i wanted to go to but i just couldn't go because of my depression, that is something i used to do all the time before i started taking lexapro.  While on the lexapro my social life increased a lot, it was not until i stopped taking it that i realised that.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4813993 - 10/16/05 11:34 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Dont you think that the act of inhibiting a natural bodily function is a little odd, or possibly damaging in the long run?

I understand and believe that Lexapro assisted you in becoming socially active again, but any assortment of drugs could have done the same thing. Plenty of people have died as a direct cause of Lexapro, just because it is legal doesnt mean it is harmless or safe.

And exactly how long will you/have you be/been on Lexapro? How does Lexapro cure depression? not just treat its symptoms, or mask the problems, but actually CURE someone of it for the rest of their life?

There are also a good many more questions left unanswered from my last post.


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OfflineMoxemerald
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4814285 - 10/17/05 12:22 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

art - "My depression was not brought on by anything external..."

That's exactly his point. You' treated it like it was brought on by something external, yet you know it's internal.

I'm afraid I completely agree with psilocyberin. But the core main point of his argument is being lost in your sea of over-analyzation.

He is saying, "depression stems completely from being self-absorbed, which is easy to do in this society. Read the first post and see if it doesnt reek of self-absorbed thought."

To rephrase and make more conrete; Depression stems from the constant scrutinization of your personal world view. This results in self-absorption.

When one becomes self-absorbed, he will start to develope worrysome thought patterns consisting of how he comes across to the world. It starts to snowball and wabam! youve got yourself some depression


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: Moxemerald]
    #4814400 - 10/17/05 12:47 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Self-absorbed may be the wrong word...

there are plenty of self-absorbed people that aren't depressed.

A better way of putting it would be negative self-talk.


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OfflineMoxemerald
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4816297 - 10/17/05 01:56 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Well yes, and there can be self-absorbed people who are extremely cocky and think highly of themselves, but I'm saying it comes from within. And we're not talking temporary depression that comes from the death of a loved one or losing a baseball game but the chronic depression that consumes every thought the person has.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: Moxemerald]
    #4816364 - 10/17/05 02:13 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

right....and those consuming thoughts are negative self-talk.


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Offlineart
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4816823 - 10/17/05 04:04 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Will just typing in the quote button work? Or is there some way to reply and see all of the previous posts? I am confused with this forums set up.

sorry for not using quotes, and sorry if it seems confusing.


i don't think lexapro is odd at all, doesn't work the same as vitamins, medicine for leukemia, or diabetes?


and so what exactly are the drugs that could help me become socially active? I thought your whole point was that using drugs to help you is bad. Yes, i see your point about crack will have the same effect, but again, lexapro is not addicting, nor will lexapro kill you. So, can you give me some ways to help with my problems that do not include drugs?
again, i really mean that, right now since i am not on my anti depressants it would be nice to find something to help me.


I don't think lexapro has the ability to cure me, but that goes back to the fact that i believe depression is a chemical imbalance. If depression is brought on by external situations then yes i think lexapro has the ability to cure.


There are also many questions you have not answered. If you are referring to all of the questions at the bottom, not all of them really have much to do with depression, and in some cases i agree with you. Once i figure out how to use quotes i will answer them.



Moxemarld,

I am really confused on how being self-absorbed makes you become depressed? I also wonder if you read all of my posts. Anyways, yes you are right, this whole argument really comes down to, is depression caused by a chemical imbalance or external situations. So, what caused me to become depressed? How was i self-absorbed, that is what i don't understand. I did not have a negative perception of my life or the world. I did not think i was depressed or had any problem. I did not scrutinize the world.



Anyways, please tell me how to overcome my depression without drugs. I seriously will give it a fair chance. I would love to not need to take pills. I really do hate taking them.


I am also curious as to what both of you are basing your information off of. This is the first time i have ever heard someone question the theory that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4816906 - 10/17/05 04:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

That's odd that this is the firs time you heard someone question the chemical imbalance thing...did you not see Tom Cruise and his Scientology rant with Matthew Lauwry (spelling?)?

Dude...if you were unaware that you were depressed....then me thinks you weren't actually depressed.


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Offlineart
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4817133 - 10/17/05 05:19 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i think i have been depressed most of my life, i didn't know what it was like to feel normal. I had not known anything different. There are a lot of other symptoms of depression other than just feeling depressed. For example, tiredness, apathy, anxiety, social anxiety. I have always been extremely lethargic and tired all the time. I thought this was due to something physical, yet i could never find out what. It wasn't until i started taking the anti depressants that i started getting some of my energy back. Even when i felt sad, i thought that all teenagers would get that way. I did not realise that what i was feeling was not normal.

That is why i think depression is caused by a chemical imbalance. How would the lexapro have been able to help me if not for a chemcial imbalance? If depresion was caused by external things, than wouldn't the SSRI's not affect me at all? My views on life did not change at all, nothing really changed except for the fact that i was taking the lexapro.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4817262 - 10/17/05 05:51 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

no teenagers do get tired...and it is normal.

how old are you?


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Offlineart
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4817429 - 10/17/05 06:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

ok, getting tired is one thing, but being constantly tired is another. there were so many times that i would come home and just sleep because i was too tired to do anything. I was always out of it. Trust me, it was not normal.

im 18.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4818024 - 10/17/05 08:33 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i think you're being to hard on yourself.


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Offlineart
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4818175 - 10/17/05 09:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

how so?


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4818246 - 10/17/05 09:18 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

you think you were depressed most of your life...yet you didn't realize it till recently when you got on meds.

that just sounds odd.


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Offlineart
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: MJF]
    #4818441 - 10/17/05 09:53 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

did you not read my posts? i don't know how i can explain this any better. It is just like having cancer for awhile, you might have some symptoms but not know that it is because of cancer. You don't really know you have a problem until you go to the doctor and have them tell you.

I thought everything i was feeling was normal, it was not normal. It may sound naive and stupid but despite the fact that i often thought of suicide and would wish for death, i had no idea i was depressed. I didn't know that being tired, anxious, anti-social could be caused by depression. Depression isn't something that happends over night, how is one to know that they have depression unless they try meds?
I don't see what sounds so odd about that.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: swiftrance]
    #4818459 - 10/17/05 09:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The brain cannot function properly if the body is not healthy.

What do you eat?


--------------------


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OfflineMJF
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Re: depressed =( going to doctor tomorrow for help [Re: art]
    #4818992 - 10/17/05 11:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

dude....if you often think of suicide and wish for death...how could you think things were normal?

if you're tired all the time and anxious and anti-social....how could you think you are normal?

dude...these things aren't always caused by depression...it could very well be some other mental disorder. maybe even a personality disorder.

I think you just need to grow up and learn some more...and stop convincing yourself that you are not normal. well...you really are not normal...you are unique...normal doesn't exist in my opinion. ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecy?
go read some psychology books....or self help stuff...or take a psychology class.


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