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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,182
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Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4790944 - 10/12/05 12:35 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The14thWarrior said:
Spaced-out liberal horseshit isn't exactly what I had in mind for this debate.

Are you Adolf Hitler? Eichmann? Pal Pot?




Yes, I am everyone and everything and so are you. You've just forgotten. It's not what I consider spaced out liberal horseshit. I consider it literal fact.








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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: Learyfan]
    #4790974 - 10/12/05 12:39 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

The14thWarrior said:
Spaced-out liberal horseshit isn't exactly what I had in mind for this debate.

Are you Adolf Hitler? Eichmann? Pal Pot?




Yes, I am everyone and everything and so are you. You've just forgotten. It's not what I consider spaced out liberal horseshit. I consider it literal fact.




I'm not a jew. Fact.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: looner2]
    #4791024 - 10/12/05 12:50 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

Phluck said:
There's also an underclass of whites in the same situation though. There's always criminals.




There will always be an underclass regardless of race. The difference is between culture. There is a world of difference seperating the two regarding their respective cultures. Walk through a U.S city and you'll see things change night and day and its not all about the mula either.





I agree that there is some difference in culture between white and black people.

However, I live in a neighborhood that's 60% black, more or less. The difference between black and white people is generally slight.


I've met a number of black people who I've had plenty in common with. It's more a question of intrests and personality than race - though, there is some correlation between those things.

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: phi1618]
    #4791052 - 10/12/05 12:56 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

phi1618 said:
Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

Phluck said:
There's also an underclass of whites in the same situation though. There's always criminals.




There will always be an underclass regardless of race. The difference is between culture. There is a world of difference seperating the two regarding their respective cultures. Walk through a U.S city and you'll see things change night and day and its not all about the mula either.





I agree that there is some difference in culture between white and black people.

However, I live in a neighborhood that's 60% black, more or less. The difference between black and white people is generally slight.


I've met a number of black people who I've had plenty in common with. It's more a question of intrests and personality than race - though, there is some correlation between those things.




I've been friends and have been mentored by black people that I have the utmost respect for. The thing was they transcended the petty cultural bias that is a huge stigma that many blacks need to overcome to be successful. If they do good in school, speak with proper english, and generally have a positive attitude toward the future then they are made fun of for not being ' black enough '.

Being 'black' in regards to their culture is the anti-thesis to what it means to be an American. They devalue hardwork, they devalue integration, and they believe the world OWES them something.

This is sad for the average black person, and for some reason we feel the need to prop up these multicultural agendas as if they do anything positive.

Bill Cosby attempted...only ATTEMPTED at highlighting these problems and they turned on him like a rabid dog.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: looner2]
    #4791087 - 10/12/05 01:05 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with Bill Cosby to a great extent. There is something wrong with black culture today. But unlike the National Alliance folks, I don't believe the problem is genetic. I think black culture has been shaped by a number of bad influences, starting with slavery and going on down to the welfare state and affirmative action. There is a sentiment among them that the world owes them something, and this leads to laziness at best and criminal behavior at worst. But since I believe the problem is cultural and not biological, I also happen to believe that it can be overcome given enough time. At the time being, only individuals within the black community are able to overcome it. It will take a lot longer for black culture itself to overcome this attitude, but I believe it can be done.


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: Silversoul]
    #4792088 - 10/12/05 10:22 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
So he is advocating protectionism, just like I said. He obviously has no education in economics whatsoever.




I realize that graduating college with a massively useless degree (Yes, I don't know any employed socialogists) gives you the power to drop big words and sound important. While I'm not arguing for national socialism, it seems that Nazi Germany wasn't struggling for goods during the beginning and before the war. How would America, with our massive amounts of land?


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: Silversoul]
    #4792130 - 10/12/05 10:30 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
I agree with Bill Cosby to a great extent. There is something wrong with black culture today. But unlike the National Alliance folks, I don't believe the problem is genetic.




Then why do Whites in the same situations seem to not behave as negros? Why was the White world advancing by leaps and bounds when we found Africa and slaves, and they were about in the same place they are now.
Quote:


I think black culture has been shaped by a number of bad influences, starting with slavery and going on down to the welfare state and affirmative action.




Interesting, the failures of black Africans before Western arrival was due to their innate sense of knowing that they'd be made into slaves, so they pre-acted in their typical savage manner? Maybe they are brighter than I've given them credit for.
Quote:


There is a sentiment among them that the world owes them something, and this leads to laziness at best and criminal behavior at worst. But since I believe the problem is cultural and not biological, I also happen to believe that it can be overcome given enough time.




And you think that we are currently headed towards that time? More black fatherless welfare babies are born every year, the average black in America isn't doing better, they are doing worse, and they are breeding at a massive rate. They've also hijacked the media so that ignorant thug black men who preach violence are regarded as "cool", rather than as a negative that needs to change. I see change right around the corner.
Quote:


At the time being, only individuals within the black community are able to overcome it. It will take a lot longer for black culture itself to overcome this attitude, but I believe it can be done.



WIth a magic wand, or do you have some real solution?


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Offlinewilshire
free radical
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
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Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4792224 - 10/12/05 10:49 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

i think your historical perspective is a little lacking in scope. few of the world's great civilzations were white, and there were definitely thriving civilizations in africa (and i don't mean egypt.)

black slavery ended only 4 or 5 generations ago. oppression as a matter of law ended only 2 generations ago. do you think that perhaps the current state of black people in america may be influenced in some way by fact that their parents and grandparents were second class citizens, and some of their great-grandparents slaves?

and what does any of this have to do with politics, activism, or law? what public policies are you suggesting be implemented or terminated on the basis of these racist beliefs of yours?


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
Up From Sloth
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Registered: 08/28/05
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Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4792288 - 10/12/05 11:02 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Interesting, the failures of black Africans before Western arrival was due to their innate sense of knowing that they'd be made into slaves, so they pre-acted in their typical savage manner? Maybe they are brighter than I've given them credit for.





:tongue2:  You're a funny character.

My suggestion to you, sir, is to step out of your dimly lit shell, enroll at the nearest state university that you can afford, sign up for a geography of africa course taught by a reputable professor, and stop blaming the rest of the world for your lack of success.  The world owes you nothing, and won't budge an inch no matter how much your pallid, embarassingly modest human form may whine. 

You have a brain like the rest of us.  Use it.

Oh yeah, and...








I'm jewish and rich!  :eek:


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"A Bad Day for Pants"

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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4792352 - 10/12/05 11:15 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

IgnatiusJReilly said:
My suggestion to you, sir, is to step out of your dimly lit shell, enroll at the nearest state university that you can afford, sign up for a geography of africa course taught by a reputable professor, and stop blaming the rest of the world for your lack of success.  The world owes you nothing, and won't budge an inch no matter how much your pallid, embarassingly modest human form may whine. 




Jesus man, that sounds like what I'd recommend to about 90% of the black population.  I'm not saying that I'm "owed" anything, I'm quite sucessful, I make great money and I love my job.  I think that I'd prefer to die knowing that my race is going to exist in 500 years, rather than some africanised mulatto race taking over.
Quote:


You have a brain like the rest of us.  Use it.

Oh yeah, and...


I'm jewish and rich!  :eek:



A rich jew? now thats something I won't believe! :smile:

I'm a white racist, and I'm pretty well off.  I'm not going to compare portfolios with you, but how JEwish to think that money is a measure of character. 

Do you think that your people deserve their own homeland? Why none of this beautiful inter-cultural crap that you are pushing on whites?


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: wilshire]
    #4792361 - 10/12/05 11:18 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
i think your historical perspective is a little lacking in scope. few of the world's great civilzations were white, and there were definitely thriving civilizations in africa (and i don't mean egypt.)




Most of the worlds great civilizations were white, actually.  Name some "great civilizations" that were comparable to the systems held in Rome that existed in sub-Saharan (black) Africa.
Quote:


black slavery ended only 4 or 5 generations ago. oppression as a matter of law ended only 2 generations ago.




What about black slavery in Africa? Why aren't blacks in Africa doing as well as any other persons anywhere else in the world?  Blacks have never suceeded on the level that Westerners consider sucess.
Quote:


do you think that perhaps the current state of black people in america may be influenced in some way by fact that their parents and grandparents were second class citizens, and some of their great-grandparents slaves?




I'm sure some influence comes from it.  What do you think about black culture in america, currently? Are blacks trying to rise up and help themselves, or playing the victim role and trying to get freebies?  My friend is a Jew and his grandfather was a first generation Russian immigrant.  He was assaulted many times for being Jewish yet he built a thriving construction and bricklaying company.  Why have other races that were more 'oppressed' done so well in America?
Quote:


What public policies are you suggesting be implemented or terminated on the basis of these racist beliefs of yours?



I think that all welfare should stop.  I think that people should be given real education about racial issues, rather than parroting the two-faced jewish media masters.  When the media tells us how having a Jewish HOmeland is the best thing since sliced bread, then turns around and tell us how we need more interracial "harmony" and multiculturalism in America, I smell a strong reek of bullshit.

The general complaint from blacks is that we are "oppressing" them.  I'm not sure how that happens, really, and ID on't know why being oppressed means that you need to have crackbabies left and right, and violent crime occuring at exponentially higher rates.  If blacks don't like America, and they don't wnat to integrate and "Act white", then I think it's clear that the solution is for us to return them to their homeland.  Slavery was wrong, and all of the effects of slavery are fruit of the poisoned tree.  To be fair, all decendants of the black people who wre able to create sea-faring vessels and who knew navigation well enough to explore other area, and manged to come to AMerica, are more than welcome to stay. 
:smile:


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Offlinewilshire
free radical
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
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Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4792451 - 10/12/05 11:43 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Most of the worlds great civilizations were white

please list what you believe to be the world's great civilizations.

Name some "great civilizations" that were comparable to the systems held in Rome that existed in sub-Saharan (black) Africa.

nubia. axum.


What about black slavery in Africa? Why aren't blacks in Africa doing as well as any other persons anywhere else in the world?


what about them? my point is that you are basing your assessments on the biological equity of africans and europeans on a few hundred years of a world history that goes back thousands of years. if you were making your assessments in 900 AD, you'd probably say that white people were the scum of the earth, and that their muslim and chinese neighbors were clearly biologically superior. you'd be wrong there too.

Why have other races that were more 'oppressed' done so well in America?

no group of people in the united states, with the possible exception of the natives, has been oppressed as much as blacks. also, black people have more visible physical differences from white people than other groups, and have always been and still are more easily distinguished and more likely to be prejudged against.

I think that all welfare should stop.

are you against welfare because you think it's a bad idea, or because you don't like non-whites recieving it? if there were no non-whites living here, would you be ok with welfare then?

I think that people should be given real education about racial issues

i think you may be in need of a real education about racial issues.

To be fair, all decendants of the black people who wre able to create sea-faring vessels and who knew navigation well enough to explore other area, and manged to come to AMerica, are more than welcome to stay.

what is fair about that?


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
Up From Sloth
Male

Registered: 08/28/05
Posts: 668
Loc: LA
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4792573 - 10/12/05 12:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Ah, relax, man. I'm actually Gary Coleman. You know you like me, 'cuz I'm small and cute.


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"A Bad Day for Pants"

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4793052 - 10/12/05 01:46 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The14thWarrior said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
So he is advocating protectionism, just like I said.  He obviously has no education in economics whatsoever.




I realize that graduating college with a massively useless degree (Yes, I don't know any employed socialogists) gives you the power to drop big words and sound important.  While I'm not arguing for national socialism, it seems that Nazi Germany wasn't struggling for goods during the beginning and before the war.  How would America, with our massive amounts of land?



Are you suggesting that Nazi Germany had isolationist trade policies before the war?  Are you not aware of all the investments that American corporations had in their country?(if not, read up on Henry Ford)  Are you not also aware that Germany had an alliance with the Japanese?(a mongrel race! :eek:)  If you think Germany just picked itself up without any outside help, you know nothing of history.


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: Silversoul]
    #4793059 - 10/12/05 01:47 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Obfuscation to the miz-ax!


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4793067 - 10/12/05 01:48 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe you should look up "mongrel" and see how a race that exists on a isolated island could fit that definition. If you aren't too busy watching BET, that is. G.


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4793103 - 10/12/05 01:55 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

The Japanese invaded Japan about less than 2000 years ago.

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4793282 - 10/12/05 02:37 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The14thWarrior said:
Then why do Whites in the same situations seem to not behave as negros?



It's hard to even define a "same situation," as culture is so pervasive, and race so intricately tied to it, that each person experiences a situation through their socio-cultural background.

Quote:

Why was the White world advancing by leaps and bounds when we found Africa and slaves, and they were about in the same place they are now.



There are a whole number of historical factors for the age of European imperialism. The massive wealth gained from the crusades was one factor. Then there was the Rennaissance, sparked by the recovery of ancient Greek knowledge from the Arabs(remember that whites had just recently gone through in the Dark Ages, where they were little more advanced than the Africans you consider so savage). Probably most importantly, though, was the simple fact that they had easy access to the ocean, which allowed for voyages of discovery and conquest.

As for why these Africans were so primitive, the fact is that, as wishire said, there were prosperous black African kingdoms, such as Ghana, Mali, and Songhay. Calling them primitive would be like calling the Aztecs primitive. Sure, they were eventually overrun by European powers, that doesn't take away from the fact that they were at least as advanced as the Arabs they traded with, and about on the same level as Europe before the age of imperialism began. However, while many of them did have great wealth, they did not have the access to the ocean that Spain or England had, and thus they could not explore and conquer in the same way that those countries did. There's a reason why much of Africa was unexplored by Europeans until the 19th century -- the whole continent is on a plateau shooting straight up from the ocean. While technically the continent touches the ocean, for all practical purposes it's as good as landlocked. They had no decent harbors.

As for Africans being no more advanced today, that's blatantly false. Many Africans now lives in cities, and have access to modern technology, and have jobs just like any American. "But they didn't come up with any of that themselves," you say? Doesn't matter. Much of European "knowledge" was learned from other cultures as well. The reason Europeans were able to advance so much is precisely because they had contact with so many other cultures. Arabs, Indians, Chinese...these cultures all contributed something to European advancement, not to mention all the free labor that they forced out of Africans.

Oh, and regarding the slave trade, I'm sure you're well aware of the fact that many if not most of the slaves taken from Africa were sold to them by other Africans. It was the slave trade afterall, not the slave hunt. Many of the slaves were purchased from the same powerful black African empires I mentioned previously(Mali, Ghana, etc.). It was not simply one tribe of savages selling another tribe of savages as slaves. It was powerful, wealthy African empires trading their captured enemies as slaves. Now, my point is not to justify blacks enslaving other blacks, but rather to point out that the slave trade would not have been possible on the scale on which it was achieved without the help of these powerful African empires.

Quote:

Interesting, the failures of black Africans before Western arrival was due to their innate sense of knowing that they'd be made into slaves, so they pre-acted in their typical savage manner? Maybe they are brighter than I've given them credit for.



More ignorant rubbish. As I explained, there were many African empires that were at the same place technologically that Europeans had been just a century or two before arriving there. The extra push that Europe got due to its geographic advantages can hardly be blamed on the Africans.

And since that time, the problems of Africa and the problems of African Americans have been separate. African Americans were shaped by slavery, while the African nations were shaped by colonialism, and in many repects, simply bad geography(the part about Africa being a plateau is just one of many geographic hurdles).

Quote:

And you think that we are currently headed towards that time? More black fatherless welfare babies are born every year, the average black in America isn't doing better, they are doing worse, and they are breeding at a massive rate. They've also hijacked the media so that ignorant thug black men who preach violence are regarded as "cool", rather than as a negative that needs to change. I see change right around the corner.



Sure, there's all that, but there's also a growing movement of "conscious hip-hop" which rejects the gangster image of other rap artists, and preaches cultural progress. There was the Million Man March, in which black men from all over the country gathered to promise to take care of their women, and not to leave their children fatherless. Of course, these are simple social movements which are fighting an uphill battle against the mainstream(much like most social movements). But I have faith that if enough blacks can be motivated to change things, then we can progress as a society.

Quote:

WIth a magic wand, or do you have some real solution?



Patience, my friend. As I mentioned, there are social movements in place right now to try and do something about this, but like any social movement, they're fighting an uphill battle. Just like the Civil Rights movement, or the Women's Suffrage movement, or the Gay Pride movement. Except here, the target is not so much legislation as it is cultural attitudes. That's a much bigger beast to tame, but it's been done before.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4793342 - 10/12/05 02:52 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

All right, all right. This thread is closed.

I would be within my rights to hand out warnings and even bans to more than one poster to this thread but I can't be bothered. I'm going to lock it instead.

There are several of you who need to re-read the rules of this forum and to expend the mental effort necessary to understand what the words you are reading mean.

To help you achieve that understanding, let me start all of you off in the right direction: the idea is to address the point under discussion, not snipe at the one presenting the point.





Phred


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
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Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: "America is a Changing Country" - National Alliance [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4793352 - 10/12/05 02:54 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
see above

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